The ULTIMATE Probable Playable Characters In Brawl Analysis Topic!(1 week til Brawl!)

[A Link to the Snitch]

Oh? F-Zero games score much higher?

F-Zero games:

F-Zero - 83%
F-Zero X - 86.1%
F-Zero: Maximum Velocity - 82.9%
F-Zero GX - 89.2%
F-Zero: GP Legend - 76.9%

WarioWare games:

WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$ - 89.2%
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$ - 76.7%
WarioWare: Twisted! - 88.3%
WarioWare: Touched! - 81.9%
WarioWare: Smooth Moves - 81.8%

So, five games each.

Yeah, that sure is "much better". Even if you say F-Zero is comparable, that means that F-Zero roughly ties with WarioWare in reviews, but gets torn to pieces when it comes to dinero.

But you also seem to imply that Wario in general scores worse.

Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 - 77.5%
Wario Land II - 86.9%
Wario Land 3 - 90.4%
Wario Land 4 - 85.3%
Wario World - 72%
Wario: Master of Disguise - 63.2%

Wow. So Wario has a game scoring above a nine out of ten, F-Zero does not. Wario has 12 different games, F-Zero only has six.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason people don't think Wario's important enough to have two reps is that it's not important to them.

 

[ChronoBound]

The fact of the matter is that the only reason people don't think Wario's important enough to have two reps is that it's not important to them.

F-Zero will probably not get a second representative considering that Sakurai has been pretty much ignoring it. However, there is no questioning that it should get more priority over Wario when it comes which series should get a second-playable character first.

Ironically enough, Captain Falcon is actually Sakurai's favorite Smash Bros. character.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

F-Zero will probably not get a second representative considering that Sakurai has been pretty much ignoring it. However, there is no questioning that it should get more priority over Wario when it comes which series should get a second-playable character first.

Ironically enough, Captain Falcon is actually Sakurai's favorite Smash Bros. character.

A whopping zero reasons have been provided to suggest this. Wario has a wider audience - by wider, I mean incredibly wider. Why SHOULD it get a second rep? Because it's been in Smash longer? The best choice for a rep is out, and the second best, what would he even do? With Jimmy T., at least his moves would be based on what he does, or with Mona, she could have moves based on her various professions. Black Shadow would have to have a moveset made entirely from the ground up like CF was.

F-Zero has declined in popularity, Wario has actually rapidly increased in popularity. What has F-Zero done to warrant two reps that Wario hasn't done as well or better?

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

F-Zero will probably not get a second representative considering that Sakurai has been pretty much ignoring it. However, there is no questioning that it should get more priority over Wario when it comes which series should get a second-playable character first.

Ironically enough, Captain Falcon is actually Sakurai's favorite Smash Bros. character.

i see how this works because he maily created that character in the smashbros series.like kirby he thought of it all

 

[ChronoBound]

A whopping zero reasons have been provided to suggest this. Wario has a wider audience - by wider, I mean incredibly wider. Why SHOULD it get a second rep? Because it's been in Smash longer? The best choice for a rep is out, and the second best, what would he even do? With Jimmy T., at least his moves would be based on what he does, or with Mona, she could have moves based on her various professions. Black Shadow would have to have a moveset made entirely from the ground up like CF was.

F-Zero has declined in popularity, Wario has actually rapidly increased in popularity. What has F-Zero done to warrant two reps that Wario hasn't done as well or better?

F-Zero spawned a 50+ episode anime. Something few other Nintendo series can say. Also, the WarioWare can easily die out this generation in terms of popularity or quality. Like the Star Fox or Donkey Kong series last generation. During the Nintendo 64 and SNES years, those two series were extremely influential in quality and in sales. However, during the GameCube years, both series saw major declines in both quality and sales. What is to say the same won't happen to the Wario series, which is why the entire series's legacy must be looked at instead of recent success. If you are just judging by most improved or biggest revival, then Metroid should have two more newcomers by your logic.

 

[The rAt]

1. It sells better
2. It scores better

And let me guess, you have some amazing reason why Star Fox and F-Zero deserve two reps that WarioWare doesn't?

Just a reminder - believing that posts which do nothing to rebut anyone else's argument doesn't alter reality to make it so.

Once again, I wrote quite a long post responding to your claims, and once again I deleted it, because I don't really feel the need to get sucked into a debate with someone who is so insecure that they need to resort to misrepresenting his opponents arguements so he can refute them and cutting down his opponents because he disagrees with them, all the while making broad, sweeping claims without citing a single source and only responding to the points which support his arguement.

You have made it blatantly obvious that no matter what anyone says, you have no interest in a friendly debate, you want to be right. So you can go ahead and be right all you want; I don't play games with someone who thinks he makes all the rules.

Regarding Bowser Jr. I have to agree with PsychoIncarnate. Bowser Jr will always be just a cheap Koopaling knockoff to me. I've yet to meet a gamer old enough to have grown up with the Koopalings who prefers Bowser Jr to them, though in all fairness, that doesn't mean they don't exist

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

WarioWare might become the biggest thing in the history of time. Why should we assume that it will become significantly less popular even though the popularity has actually risen for the series?

Star Fox died because the games weren't very good. Donkey Kong has gotten terrible representation, game-wise. Star Fox might decline more, so I guess it only deserves one representative, right?

And no, I'm NOT JUDGING ON ONE SINGLE THING and you know that for a fact. Either you're trying to twist my argument to make your non-argument better, or you simply cannot read complete sentences. My logic is multiple factors, which include worldwide notability, current popularity, past popularity, overall popularity that was actually revived with this new spin-off, being a quality series, being a series which features characters that you simply cannot avoid in playing the game, having characters with very workable movesets, having a regular cast of characters, etcetera. There are many reasons why Jimmy T./Mona should be in, so please, stop telling me that I only have one or two reasons.

And now I'm being accused of telling people what their arguments are. I think the only reason misrepresentation is a problem is because of who is supposedly being misrepresented.

Fun fact: No one's provided an argument to suggest that F-Zero or Star Fox characters warrant a second representative. You know why? Because the only reasons are sales, quality, and longevity. Which Wario has. Wario beats Star Fox in sales and quality, Wario beats F-Zero in sales and is roughly tied in the quality department, and it's much older than both of them. It's never taken the dive in success that F-Zero's taken, nor has it taken the dive in quality that Star Fox's taken. The only reason why they deserve a second rep more is because they're already in Smash - which wasn't true for Kirby, Donkey Kong, EarthBound, Metroid, Yoshi, or F-Zero in Melee. Wario is a better franchise than Star Fox is now, and it's more popular than both of them. The potential for quality or sales to drop is a theory, basically, the theory is that it will sell as poorly as F-Zero, and/or rate as poorly as Star Fox. Star Fox and F-Zero have taken those dives, Wario hasn't. Why should a franchise be treated as lesser because it might possibly in some version of the future sell as bad as F-Zero already does or rate as bad as Star Fox already does? If we look at what is instead of what might be, we see that Wario covers all bases - quality, sales, workability. F-Zero sells poorly but scores great. Star Fox sells great but scores poorly. Both have a certain degree of workability, but the Wario cast definitely edges out them both.

 

[IsmaR]

Shut the hell up

 

[Super-dude]

WarioWare might become the biggest thing in the history of time. Why should we assume that it will become significantly less popular even though the popularity has actually risen for the series?

Star Fox died because the games weren't very good. Donkey Kong has gotten terrible representation, game-wise. Star Fox might decline more, so I guess it only deserves one representative, right?

And no, I'm NOT JUDGING ON ONE SINGLE THING and you know that for a fact. Either you're trying to twist my argument to make your non-argument better, or you simply cannot read complete sentences. My logic is multiple factors, which include worldwide notability, current popularity, past popularity, overall popularity that was actually revived with this new spin-off, being a quality series, being a series which features characters that you simply cannot avoid in playing the game, having characters with very workable movesets, having a regular cast of characters, etcetera. There are many reasons why Jimmy T./Mona should be in, so please, stop telling me that I only have one or two reasons.

And now I'm being accused of telling people what their arguments are. I think the only reason misrepresentation is a problem is because of who is supposedly being misrepresented.

Fun fact: No one's provided an argument to suggest that F-Zero or Star Fox characters warrant a second representative. You know why? Because the only reasons are sales, quality, and longevity. Which Wario has. Wario beats Star Fox in sales and quality, Wario beats F-Zero in sales and is roughly tied in the quality department, and it's much older than both of them. It's never taken the dive in success that F-Zero's taken, nor has it taken the dive in quality that Star Fox's taken. The only reason why they deserve a second rep more is because they're already in Smash - which wasn't true for Kirby, Donkey Kong, EarthBound, Metroid, Yoshi, or F-Zero in Melee. Wario is a better franchise than Star Fox is now, and it's more popular than both of them. The potential for quality or sales to drop is a theory, basically, the theory is that it will sell as poorly as F-Zero, and/or rate as poorly as Star Fox. Star Fox and F-Zero have taken those dives, Wario hasn't. Why should a franchise be treated as lesser because it might possibly in some version of the future sell as bad as F-Zero already does or rate as bad as Star Fox already does? If we look at what is instead of what might be, we see that Wario covers all bases - quality, sales, workability. F-Zero sells poorly but scores great. Star Fox sells great but scores poorly. Both have a certain degree of workability, but the Wario cast definitely edges out them both.

it could be that f-zero and star fox characters would make better fighters than warioware characters...

easier to make movesets for

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Black Shadow DRIVES

They had to make a completely brand new moveset for Captain Falcon!

Jimmy T., Mona, do they need new movesets? No, because they have things that they do outside of vehicles.

I don't see why having nothing to work with is easier than, say, giving Jimmy T. disco-based moves, for instance, or Nintendo-based moves for 9-Volt, or magic-based moves for Ashley, or ninja moves for Kat & Ana, or a moveset based on Mona's many jobs, including singer, pizza delivery, soft serve ice cream vendor, etc., as well as the several animals she uses as an attack in WarioWare.

What does Black Shadow have?

 

[IsmaR]

Black Shadow DRIVES

They had to make a completely brand new moveset for Captain Falcon!

Jimmy T., Mona, do they need new movesets? No, because they have things that they do outside of vehicles.

I don't see why having nothing to work with is easier than, say, giving Jimmy T. disco-based moves, for instance, or Nintendo-based moves for 9-Volt, or magic-based moves for Ashley, or ninja moves for Kat & Ana, or a moveset based on Mona's many jobs, including singer, pizza delivery, soft serve ice cream vendor, etc., as well as the several animals she uses as an attack in WarioWare.

What does Black Shadow have?

Have any of them actually fought a battle? Even if it is a race?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Mona fought a giant airplane and cops, Kat & Ana fought a giant troll and skeleton demon lord.

However, at what point does fighting matter? Is G&W a fighter? Has Sakurai or anyone involved in SSB said "they have to have fought a battle to be eligible"? No.

 

[SmashChu]

@Link to the Snitch: Here is why another Wario characters won't be in Brawl
Wario - Mario's even fatter anti-hero counterpart. However, instead of being a Mario clone he uses moves based off WarioWare. Therefore, fanboys of the game scream for another character from the game to be playable even though the whole cast excluding Wario doesn't have enough combined character to produce a minor character from Chrono Cross. Regardless, at least one character will get in just to make sure that the Mother series will be the only series represented to have one character representing it.
From Ecyclopedia dramatica (becuase of bad content, I will send you the source if you via PM if you ask for it)

But really dude, you are trolling. You are being rude to other members and trolling. Yes, you are indeed trolling. Your argument isn't very sound though. You may have some kind of point, but you haven't been able to back up the argument as a whole, then try to crush everyone else's credibility.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Ironically enough, Captain Falcon is actually Sakurai's favorite Smash Bros. character.

Lolololol.
Sakurai is offically blind!

Why would Jimmy T. be the most likely? Wouldn't Mona be the more likely one?

Mona > Jimmy T.

Not it isn't. Bowser Jr. is definitely the most deserving of the characters I mentioned in the Mario section, and has become an important character in the main Mario series. However, personally I would prefer Geno or Paper Mario over him. Also, Geno and Bowser Jr. are basically tied in terms of likliness, and if there are not going to be any more third-party characters in Brawl (Geno is a third-party character), Bowser Jr. will likely be the one to get in, if Sakurai does decide to place in a Mario newcomer.

Wrong, Bowser Jr has done little to the Mario series and his addition is soley dependant on popularity while geno and Paper Mario don't at least rely in a ship, Bowser Jr is also a secondary villian (Subspace says "Hi".) And while Paper Mario placed quite well on that "Nsider poll" You were talking about hosted by a mod when discussing ridley, And geno did to, Also you know hextupleyoodots kirby hats? He had his 5th Newcomer kirby be Paper Mario while JR Was all the way down in the 20's, Also Paper Mario is Moar iconic and to 3 Games that sold very well in japan managed to get a lot of sales for that, So sakurai should represent the major character BEFORE The minor, Really Jr has little chance.

Geno and Paper Mario > Bowser Jr.

But this is merely my opinion, We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Rick88]

No. Super mario RPG isn't very popular at all because of the playstation already being out and the Nintendo 64 coming out in North America soon after. He doesn't have many fans either.

Yet it sold around 2 million units. Despite what you or others think, Super Mario RPG was one of the biggest games around in both the US and Japan, even after the release of the PSone. Also Geno must have a good number of fans if he was mentioned 4 (actually 5) times in Sakurai's poll/journal.

 

[ChronoBound]

Coin launcher is today's update. At least we got a whole bunch of newly confirmed trophies and stickers in this game.

Here is what I was able find based off of screenshots:

Sir Kibble (the cutter guy from Kirby) (trophy)
Chain Chomp (trophy)
Zoda (from F-Zero) (trophy)
Phantom Ganon (sticker)
Pete and Penelope (the two gulls from Animal Crossing) (trophy)
Tortimer (trophy)
Medli (the bird-gril from Wind Waker) (trophy)
Bob-Omb (trophy)
Mach Rider (sticker)

There is a human with blonde-hair in armor eighth screenshot, which could be either a Fire Emblem character or Isaac.

 

[IsmaR]

Red = Sticker

 

[SmashChu]

There is a human with blonde-hair in armor eighth screenshot, which could be either a Fire Emblem character or Isaac.

Might be Saki. It's not Issac though (lacks a cape and had less then one uniform color).

 

[ChronoBound]

Might be Saki. It's not Issac though (lacks a cape and had less then one uniform color).

Yeah, and it is also not Oguma (a Fire Emblem character requested twice in Sakurai's poll, and has blonde-hair). He appears to wear golden armor, boots, and gloves, as well as wears white. I am going to check out some artwork for several Fire Emblem games to see who it is.

Edit: I looked at the artwork for FE3, FE4, FE6, FE7, FE9, and FE10 and I did not see any characters that matches the description above.

 

[peinoftherain]

Just to let you know the trophy next to the blonde-haired dude is the dragoon machine from kirby air ride.

 

[RandomGuy42]

I was trying to work out the trophies/stickers myself. I was doing badly however. If anyone could clear up these descriptions, that'd be great :

1st screen: Unidentified white trophy near the back. Sir Kibble in bottom right with a boy wearing black with a red cap in sticker form next to him.

4 and 5: Chain Chomp obviously.

6th screen: Finally worked out this is Zoda and his machine. I thought the machine was shoulder pad armour. =\

7th screen: Bunny Hood trophy with some black horseback rider on sticker (Possibly Ganon, but it could also be a Fire Emblem character).

8th: Tortimer and apparently the Dragoon Machine according to above poster. Like you I have no idea on the center guy.

I was also trying to work out the sticker in the screen with the list next to the Bob-omb.

 

[Joka]

That sticker next to Sir Kibble is Boxy! The mini-boss from Kirby & the Amazing Mirror and Kirby Squeak Squad! Looking close enough, I recognized her!

 

[Joka]

And the 8th screenshot has Rob 64 (bottom left) and the Dragoon (next to him), an air ride machine from Kirby Air Ride.

 

[Vasilicus]

Twinrova and Agahnim were enemies in multiple Zelda games as well.

 

[Ginger9001]

Its interesting to know that all that stuff isn't the only part of the vault. o.o

 

[626key]

I think if bowser jr makes it, he is going to make it as a boss, not on his own though, maybe with his flying pirate ship

 

[626key]

I was trying to work out the trophies/stickers myself. I was doing badly however. If anyone could clear up these descriptions, that'd be great :

1st screen: Unidentified white trophy near the back. Sir Kibble in bottom right with a boy wearing black with a red cap in sticker form next to him.

4 and 5: Chain Chomp obviously.

6th screen: Finally worked out this is Zoda and his machine. I thought the machine was shoulder pad armour. =\

7th screen: Bunny Hood trophy with some black horseback rider on sticker (Possibly Ganon, but it could also be a Fire Emblem character).

8th: Tortimer and apparently the Dragoon Machine according to above poster. Like you I have no idea on the center guy.

I was also trying to work out the sticker in the screen with the list next to the Bob-omb.

arn't you forgeting the heros bow sticker

 

[The rAt]

Twinrova and Agahnim were enemies in multiple Zelda games as well.

What was Agahnim's second game? (LttP being the first, obviously )

Sharp eye folks. After closer inspection I have decided that the mysterious blond-haired trophy is indeed my neighbor Steve. Mystery solved.

Seriously, though as much as I'm not a huge fan of the Wind Waker Link inclusion idea, it would seem likely we'll be seeing some representation from that game (be it Link or someone else), given that we've already seen two trophies from that game (Medli, Tingle).

The Link sticker seems to support the idea that we'll see Wind Waker Link (or at least another Link besides TP) at least as a sticker, since it specifies that he is the Twilight Princess version.

On a side note, 626key, I'm sure you didn't know this, but generally double posting (posting twice in a row) is frowned upon here. You can always edit your first post, unless you have a crappy computer like me, in which case I recommend taking a baseball bat or some other blunt object to it.
Anyhow, nice catch on the Hero's Bow.

 

[626key]

What was Agahnim's second game? (LttP being the first, obviously )

Sharp eye folks. After closer inspection I have decided that the mysterious blond-haired trophy is indeed my neighbor Steve. Mystery solved.

Seriously, though as much as I'm not a huge fan of the Wind Waker Link inclusion idea, it would seem likely we'll be seeing some representation from that game (be it Link or someone else), given that we've already seen two trophies from that game (Medli, Tingle).

The Link sticker seems to support the idea that we'll see Wind Waker Link (or at least another Link besides TP) at least as a sticker, since it specifies that he is the Twilight Princess version.

On a side note, 626key, I'm sure you didn't know this, but generally double posting (posting twice in a row) is frowned upon here. You can always edit your first post, unless you have a crappy computer like me, in which case I recommend taking a baseball bat or some other blunt object to it.
Anyhow, nice catch on the Hero's Bow.

Sorry...
P.S. ww link is just a younger link, and would be to simaler to link

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

oh i didnt notice that. this update has revealed a ton of stuff. like the twilight link thing, and appearantly there was another pikmin enemy as a trophy further hinting at the inclusion of olimar.

 

[626key]

oh i didnt notice that. this update has revealed a ton of stuff. like the twilight link thing, and appearantly there was another pikmin enemy as a trophy further hinting at the inclusion of olimar.

who and in what picture

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i heard bout it in the olimar thread
heres the link:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=125704&page=60

 

[ChronoBound]

The good news is that there are only four more weeks until Brawl's Japanese release. We are so close to learning the roster. So in less than four weeks, this topic will be rendered obsolete, as well as every other character support or speculation thread in the Brawl character discussion board.

 

[626key]

there will always be speculation, like who will be in the next game, who will take over after sakuri retires

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

basically this whole site will be made useless, except to rub it in the faces of the supporters of whatever characters dont make it. not that id ever do anything like that

 

[626key]

can we please change the subject, what about wolf link and midna

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

lol, aight. yeah i think they would be awsome for brawl. But my only opposition is what would their fs be?

 

[626key]

I know 2 things, 1; in the game there is a mutated hawk that you ride around on through a course, it could go lumbering through the stage or 2; midna uses the fused shadows to turn into an 8 armed shadow creature attack the feild (note, if this happens you should still control WL)

 

[The rAt]

Sorry...
P.S. ww link is just a younger link, and would be to simaler to link

Lol, that's what a lot of people (myself included) think, but there are those that disagree.

The good news is that there are only four more weeks until Brawl's Japanese release. We are so close to learning the roster. So in less than four weeks, this topic will be rendered obsolete, as well as every other character support or speculation thread in the Brawl character discussion board.

There will be a great purging. Trust me, the boards are much different now than they were before Brawl was announced, and I'm fairly certain it will go back to that state.

basically this whole site will be made useless, except to rub it in the faces of the supporters of whatever characters dont make it. not that id ever do anything like that

Nah, man (or woman if the case may be), the Brawl and Melee sections of the site will go back to strategy discussion for hardcore players, and everyone else will gravitate to the other sections (Light House, ect.). That's what happened once the newness of Melee wore off.

I will say this, though; there will be a lot lower spam tolerance.

 

[ChronoBound]

There will be a great purging. Trust me, the boards are much different now than they were before Brawl was announced, and I'm fairly certain it will go back to that state.

What do you mean by "great purging"? You mean there will be a bunch of fasnboys banning themselves because their favorite character did not make it? If the Lyn, Waluigi, Gardevoir deconfirmations are anything to go by, this board will become an ocean of bitter tears.