The ULTIMATE Probable Playable Characters In Brawl Analysis Topic!(1 week til Brawl!)

[A Link to the Snitch]

And that is a spin-off. The original series is roughly as popular. Which means that all the above mention series aren't even half as popular as Wario.

 

[626key]

not to crush peoples hopes or anything, but who would represent the wario ware franchise besides wario

 

[IsmaR]

not to crush peoples hopes or anything, but who would represent the wario ware franchise besides wario

Thank you!

 

[ChronoBound]

Trophy stands is today's update. Basically, the only way to get a trophy of a Subspace enemy is by throwing a Trophy Stand at them when they are weak enough, it reminds me of Pokemon in a way. Oh well, only two more updates for this week. I don't think we will be getting any more character updates this week. Instead it will probably be an item, How To Play, or stage update. Hopefully, the item update will be an Assist Trophy we have not seen before.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Captain Syrup - Recurring villain in the first two Wario Land games
Mona - Appears in every single WarioWare game ever
Jimmy T. - ^

People probably know who Mona is more than Lucas or Captain Falcon or Pit. But hey, don't let, you know, truth get in the way.

 

[ChronoBound]

Captain Syrup - Recurring villain in the first two Wario Land games
Mona - Appears in every single WarioWare game ever
Jimmy T. - ^

People probably know who Mona is more than Lucas or Captain Falcon or Pit. But hey, don't let, you know, truth get in the way.

Metroid still needs a real second representative.
A second representative has yet to be confirmed for Star Fox.
A second representative has yet to be confirmed for Fire Emblem.
A newcomer has yet to be confirmed for Super Mario.
A newcomer has yet to be confirmed for Zelda.
A second character has yet to be confirmed for Mother.
A character has yet to be confirmed for F-Zero (though everyone knows that Captain Falcon will be back)
Pikmin and Custom Robo are both lacking playable representatives.

The Wario series has a long line to go before Sakurai's team even thinks about giving it a second-character.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Wow, great point. Because other popular franchises have yet to receive updates, this other extremely popular franchise with several multi-million sellers doesn't deserve more characters.

It's done more to deserve extra reps than Star Fox or F-Zero.

 

[Ginger9001]

Captain Syrup - Recurring villain in the first two Wario Land games
Mona - Appears in every single WarioWare game ever
Jimmy T. - ^

Don't forget that Jimmy T. is the man.

 

[626key]

Captain Syrup - Recurring villain in the first two Wario Land games
Mona - Appears in every single WarioWare game ever
Jimmy T. - ^

People probably know who Mona is more than Lucas or Captain Falcon or Pit. But hey, don't let, you know, truth get in the way.

I swear your making these guys up

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

...Right.

Just because you seemed to have avoided the entire WarioWare series, or half the Wario Land series, you are an expert of the series.

 

[626key]

okay, fine there real, I just don't know what they can do

 

[The rAt]

Wow, great point. Because other popular franchises have yet to receive updates, this other extremely popular franchise with several multi-million sellers doesn't deserve more characters.

It's done more to deserve extra reps than Star Fox or F-Zero.

That would be a Straw Man logical falacy; you misrepresented Chronobound's arguement for the purpose of making it look bad when you kicked it over. ChronoBound's arguement was never that WarioWare should NEVER recieve new reps because StarFox or F-Zero have yet to recieve more reps (or ONE rep, in the case of F-Zero), but rather that StarFox and F-Zero should recieve more reps before WarioWare recieves more representation. The implication would be that, given that there are a limited number of character spaces, WarioWare should only recieve another character spot if it can be done without short changing the franchises with higher priority (suchas Star Fox or F-Zero).

And ChronoBound's point is a valid one. StarFox and F-Zero have both been around since the SNES, and have accumulated fans during that time. While Wario has been around since the Gameboy, WarioWare has only been around since 2003, making it the youngest franchise in Smash Bros. With games like Starfox and F-Zero, not to mention Metroid and Kid Icharus, which you conveniently ignored (and have been around since the ****ing NES), there is enough history that it is safe to assume they will be relevant over the span of the next (instert number of years until next Smash game is released here) years. With WarioWare there is, at least, a lower degree of assureance that its peripheral characters will be relevant until the next Smash game is released.

One might bring up the situation of Pokemon in Smash Bros. 64 as a counterexample, since the Pokemon franchise was very new at the time, yet it was one of only two franchises to recieve two reps. To that I have two responses;
1. Pokemon was a reccord-breaking franchise, and thus an exception. It actually SOLD Gameboys. It holds the reccord for most games sold. WarioWare is a good series, but it has a long way to go before you can compare it to the Pokemon juggernaut.
2. Pokemon is a game that focuses almost entirely around fighting, thus fits better into the Smash Series than the average game.

So, the question is, what has WarioWare done for Nintendo that StarFox and F-Zero haven't? Or for that matter, Metroid? I mean, besides coming up with games for A.D.D. children.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Star Fox Command didn't sell 1 million to 6 billion people.

WarioWare: Touched! sold 1 million to 127 million people.

Which means that WWT is more popular in Japan than Star Fox Command is on Earth.

And don't even get me started on F-Zero - it hasn't been a million seller since Maximum Velocity for the GBA.

The peripheral characters have been relevant for the past nearly five years, and have had a game on every single Nintendo system starting with the GBA. One DS near-launch game, one Wii near-launch game, two GBA games, and one GameCube game, not to mention the reference to WarioWare in Wario World, which contained GBA downloadable microgames. See, fun fact - F-Zero and Star For are currently less successful than WarioWare. So why should we assume that the less successful franchises will remain longer than the more successful one? And not only that, but let's face it - in Star Fox's case, it's not even a very good series anymore, while WarioWare has been consistently good, with each game coming up with a brand new gameplay feature that completely turns it upside down. Star Fox Command's strategy concept was believed by many to hurt the game's quality. Star Fox and F-Zero have taken huge nosedives in popularity, and in SF's case, quality. However, WarioWare has actually increased both Wario's popularity as well as the quality of the series. WarioWare was better than Wario Land 4, and any given WarioWare game beat Wario World or Master of Disguise in sales and quality.

So at no point do SF or F-Zero even resemble something that warrants a second character before WarioWare - why does a series which is good AND popular deserve it less than two series, one is a not very good popular series and the other a very good unpopular series?

 

[ChronoBound]

Star Fox Command didn't sell 1 million to 6 billion people.

WarioWare: Touched! sold 1 million to 127 million people.

Which means that WWT is more popular in Japan than Star Fox Command is on Earth.

And don't even get me started on F-Zero - it hasn't been a million seller since Maximum Velocity for the GBA.

The peripheral characters have been relevant for the past nearly five years, and have had a game on every single Nintendo system starting with the GBA. One DS near-launch game, one Wii near-launch game, two GBA games, and one GameCube game, not to mention the reference to WarioWare in Wario World, which contained GBA downloadable microgames. See, fun fact - F-Zero and Star For are currently less successful than WarioWare. So why should we assume that the less successful franchises will remain longer than the more successful one? And not only that, but let's face it - in Star Fox's case, it's not even a very good series anymore, while WarioWare has been consistently good, with each game coming up with a brand new gameplay feature that completely turns it upside down. Star Fox Command's strategy concept was believed by many to hurt the game's quality. Star Fox and F-Zero have taken huge nosedives in popularity, and in SF's case, quality. However, WarioWare has actually increased both Wario's popularity as well as the quality of the series. WarioWare was better than Wario Land 4, and any given WarioWare game beat Wario World or Master of Disguise in sales and quality.

So at no point do SF or F-Zero even resemble something that warrants a second character before WarioWare - why does a series which is good AND popular deserve it less than two series, one is a not very good popular series and the other a very good unpopular series?

Unfortunately, Link to the Snitch, sales don't determine the number of c haracters a series receives. If that were the case, both Donkey Kong and Kirby would have had two representatives in Melee, not Star Fox and Fire Emblem.

 

[The rAt]

Star Fox Command didn't sell 1 million to 6 billion people.

WarioWare: Touched! sold 1 million to 127 million people.

Which means that WWT is more popular in Japan than Star Fox Command is on Earth.

And don't even get me started on F-Zero - it hasn't been a million seller since Maximum Velocity for the GBA.

The peripheral characters have been relevant for the past nearly five years, and have had a game on every single Nintendo system starting with the GBA. One DS near-launch game, one Wii near-launch game, two GBA games, and one GameCube game, not to mention the reference to WarioWare in Wario World, which contained GBA downloadable microgames. See, fun fact - F-Zero and Star For are currently less successful than WarioWare. So why should we assume that the less successful franchises will remain longer than the more successful one? And not only that, but let's face it - in Star Fox's case, it's not even a very good series anymore, while WarioWare has been consistently good, with each game coming up with a brand new gameplay feature that completely turns it upside down. Star Fox Command's strategy concept was believed by many to hurt the game's quality. Star Fox and F-Zero have taken huge nosedives in popularity, and in SF's case, quality. However, WarioWare has actually increased both Wario's popularity as well as the quality of the series. WarioWare was better than Wario Land 4, and any given WarioWare game beat Wario World or Master of Disguise in sales and quality.

So at no point do SF or F-Zero even resemble something that warrants a second character before WarioWare - why does a series which is good AND popular deserve it less than two series, one is a not very good popular series and the other a very good unpopular series?

Once again, let's just completely ignore Metroid, since it doesn't support your arguement.

Regarding WarioWare's popularity, yes it is popular. Right now. It hasn't exactly been around long enough to fail yet. It has been around essentially ONE gaming generation. The only reason it has had so many games so far is because they are so simple, and I'm betting very little goes into actually developing them, which means that its potential for growth is limited by the novelty of its gameplay. Once people stop saying "Hey, here's a new idea, I think I'll give it a try" THEN and only then will WarioWare be truly tested as a series. And for what it's worth, I do agree that when that time comes it will be one of the games that swims rather than sinks. But to compare what is essentially fad popularity to games that have been around for much longer is not effective. Compare Star Fox Command to a WarioWare game that comes out almost fourteen years after the original (the gap between Star Fox and Star Fox Command), and you have an effective comparison.

Another factor is that the popularity/quality of some game series' goes in cycles. Metroid would be a great example of that. So if you want to argue for a series, taking into consideration the average quality of an entire series, rather than its weakest game.

Regarding those sales figures, they mean nothing to me without a source, so please post one. Also, again, since Smash Bros is about the whole of Nintendo history and not just what happens to be hot at the moment, let's instead compare them to how Star Fox, Star Fox 64, F-Zero, and F-Zero GX sold (since those four games would represent those series at their peak, not to mention being the games released in the first five years of the franchise's existence), and better yet, let's factor in the market growth over the course of the last few years and THEN we have an effective platform for evaluating WarioWare in regards to those games.

However, that arguement aside, I have a hard time equating sales with poularity of the characters in regards to the WarioWare franchise by virtue of the fact that its high rate of consumption has very little to do with its characters, and more to do with the fact that it is easily accessible by those who have no prior gaming knowledge and experience, and (at least from my experience) requires very little time commitment. Do any of these things have make it a bad game? Of course not. Do they mean that you could essentially substitute other characters into the game and accomplish something similar, if not identical? I think so. And since Smash Bros is about taking the best characters and putting them together, rather than taking the best gameplay elements and putting them together, there is less need for WarioWare characters.

Finally, even if you can effectively demonstrate how WarioWare deserved a second rep before Star Fox or Metroid, it would not negate the fact that F-Zero still needs a single rep first. Smash Bros has always been about variety, and taking from the broadest spectrum of games, and for that reason a single rep from an otherwise unrepresented Nintendo game will always outweigh another rep from an already represented franchise. As much as I love Falco, I would be irate if he was included instead of a Pikmin or a Custom Robo rep. I never played a single Legend of Stafy game (obviously, since I'm not from Japan), but I was very disappointed to see him as an AT, when I know there will be more characters from already established franchises. Second, third, fourth, ect. reps from a series, except where they are at least as iconic as the central character are icing on the cake, not the cake.

Once again, I stress that I DON'T think WarioWare is a bad game, or even that it does not under any surcomstances deserve more representation. But until we have Olimar from Pikmin, Captain Falcon from F-Zero, and second reps from Metroid and Starfox, I don't see any reason to start worrying about a second WarioWare rep.

EDIT: Another valid point by ChronoBound. I may have to vote for you for most intelligent in the Smash awards, after all...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. Why is it essentially "fad popularity"? Great argument - because you want to call it a fad, it has to BE a fad. Everything shows that it's not a fad, especially the fact that every game in the series has been popular on every series its ever been on.

2. Why do we have to wait until people stop caring about its new gameplay styles? People won't, because if the style is done correctly, people will still care about that. Your argument basically suggests that people will have to stop caring and then start caring for it again for it to be deserving. Mario deserves the non-stop popularity, as do Zelda, Kirby, and Pokémon, but WarioWare doesn't solely because of what it is? Mario Party wasn't a fad, and WarioWare is selling for the exact same reason that MP is selling.

3. Let's say that Star Fox and Star Fox 64 beat WarioWare, and F-Zero and F-Zero X do as well. Let's say that those main franchises, one of which was a huge game for being the first 3D SNES game, one being advertised with the first rumble pack, and another being an SNES launch game, do beat a spin-off franchise. How much of an achievement would that be? WarioWare isn't popular because of some sudden, inexplicable reason. The mini-game genre has been big since the N64, and people liked WarioWare because of that. It shouldn't be punished for being current. And yes, DK does deserve three reps, even though it's a dying franchise that WarioWare is actually beating left and right both critically and commercially.

5. Metroid took a long break because the creator died. I suppose WarioWare might go into hiatus if the creator got run down.

6. Um, okay? I don't play G&W for the characters, I don't play Kid Icarus for the characters. Many people can identify Pit from his game, but much, much more people would recognize Mona or Jimmy T., two characters which appear in all WarioWare games - you have to view their plots in every game, there are plots, the wackiness of the game is one thing that makes it good, and the fact that you seem to not acknowledge that shows me that you have little to no experience with the franchise. If it was just a bunch of random mini-games put in for no reason, it would not be as good. Which means that Mona and Jimmy T., the most recognizable characters in WarioWare besides Wario himself, are important to the game.

7. See, this is your argument. You are either arguing that F-Zero does not have any reps in the game period and therefore Wario shouldn't get two, or that because we haven't seen Captain Falcon yet, we shouldn't even be discussing WarioWare, implying that a mega-hit franchise that has arguably surpassed the Wario Land series in popularity, exposure, and - dare I say - overall quality is not worthy of such an honor. By comparison, we shouldn't be talking about a second Star Fox or Metroid rep until we see a new Mario or Zelda rep. That is your argument, not mine. The fact that Captain Falcon has not been shown in an update hardly goes to say that Mona or Jimmy T. shouldn't be in. It is of unbelievable irrelevance.

8. Read above. "Until we have new Mario or Zelda reps, Metroid and Star Fox shouldn't even be any higher than the lowest of priority for new reps." Have fun giving a single reason why your shoddy argument doesn't apply to something it clearly does. WarioWare does deserve two reps, the fact that we haven't seen updates of characters for these other significant (in the case of Star Fox and F-Zero, less signfiicant) franchises is literally 100% unimportant. Just because they haven't received updates does not mean that Sakurai didn't put them in, so you are either assuming that they didn't get in or that WarioWare is such a lowly franchise that Sakurai dare not even put a character from it in before he writes updates on other characters.

9. Chrono: They received clones. Kirby does not have a suitable clone, Donkey Kong does not have a suitable clone. Marth has a suitable clone. Fox has a suitable clone. The two above mentioned do not. And regardless, the very idea that popularity does not matter is stated by people who want less popular representatives. No one in their right mind feels that popularity doesn't matter. Of course it matters. No one ever said it was the only defining factor. Mona and Jimmy T. are from good, popular games. They're usable, and I guarantee you their moveset would be a little more based on actuality than CF's was.

 

[ChronoBound]

1. Why is it essentially "fad popularity"? Great argument - because you want to call it a fad, it has to BE a fad. Everything shows that it's not a fad, especially the fact that every game in the series has been popular on every series its ever been on.

2. Why do we have to wait until people stop caring about its new gameplay styles? People won't, because if the style is done correctly, people will still care about that. Your argument basically suggests that people will have to stop caring and then start caring for it again for it to be deserving. Mario deserves the non-stop popularity, as do Zelda, Kirby, and Pokémon, but WarioWare doesn't solely because of what it is? Mario Party wasn't a fad, and WarioWare is selling for the exact same reason that MP is selling.

3. Let's say that Star Fox and Star Fox 64 beat WarioWare, and F-Zero and F-Zero X do as well. Let's say that those main franchises, one of which was a huge game for being the first 3D SNES game, one being advertised with the first rumble pack, and another being an SNES launch game, do beat a spin-off franchise. How much of an achievement would that be? WarioWare isn't popular because of some sudden, inexplicable reason. The mini-game genre has been big since the N64, and people liked WarioWare because of that. It shouldn't be punished for being current. And yes, DK does deserve three reps, even though it's a dying franchise that WarioWare is actually beating left and right both critically and commercially.

5. Metroid took a long break because the creator died. I suppose WarioWare might go into hiatus if the creator got run down.

6. Um, okay? I don't play G&W for the characters, I don't play Kid Icarus for the characters. Many people can identify Pit from his game, but much, much more people would recognize Mona or Jimmy T., two characters which appear in all WarioWare games - you have to view their plots in every game, there are plots, the wackiness of the game is one thing that makes it good, and the fact that you seem to not acknowledge that shows me that you have little to no experience with the franchise. If it was just a bunch of random mini-games put in for no reason, it would not be as good. Which means that Mona and Jimmy T., the most recognizable characters in WarioWare besides Wario himself, are important to the game.

7. See, this is your argument. You are either arguing that F-Zero does not have any reps in the game period and therefore Wario shouldn't get two, or that because we haven't seen Captain Falcon yet, we shouldn't even be discussing WarioWare, implying that a mega-hit franchise that has arguably surpassed the Wario Land series in popularity, exposure, and - dare I say - overall quality is not worthy of such an honor. By comparison, we shouldn't be talking about a second Star Fox or Metroid rep until we see a new Mario or Zelda rep. That is your argument, not mine. The fact that Captain Falcon has not been shown in an update hardly goes to say that Mona or Jimmy T. shouldn't be in. It is of unbelievable irrelevance.

8. Read above. "Until we have new Mario or Zelda reps, Metroid and Star Fox shouldn't even be any higher than the lowest of priority for new reps." Have fun giving a single reason why your shoddy argument doesn't apply to something it clearly does. WarioWare does deserve two reps, the fact that we haven't seen updates of characters for these other significant (in the case of Star Fox and F-Zero, less signfiicant) franchises is literally 100% unimportant. Just because they haven't received updates does not mean that Sakurai didn't put them in, so you are either assuming that they didn't get in or that WarioWare is such a lowly franchise that Sakurai dare not even put a character from it in before he writes updates on other characters.

9. Chrono: They received clones. Kirby does not have a suitable clone, Donkey Kong does not have a suitable clone. Marth has a suitable clone. Fox has a suitable clone. The two above mentioned do not. And regardless, the very idea that popularity does not matter is stated by people who want less popular representatives. No one in their right mind feels that popularity doesn't matter. Of course it matters. No one ever said it was the only defining factor. Mona and Jimmy T. are from good, popular games. They're usable, and I guarantee you their moveset would be a little more based on actuality than CF's was.

Metroid has had 10 installments and been around since 1987.
Fire Emblem has had 10 installments and been around since 1990.
Star Fox has had 5 installments (six if you count the almost complete Star Fox 2) and been around since 1993.
F-Zero has been around since 1990 and 7 installments.
Donkey Kong has had countless games and spinoffs, and been around since 1981.
Kirby also has had countless games and spinoffs, and has been around since 1992.

WarioWare debuted in 2003, and has had five installments, tying it with Custom Robo, which has also had five installments, but still no playable representative. The main thing about the Wario Ware games is that each game has a gimmick about it. The first started the whole series with the microgames, Mega Party Games for the GCN had the multiplayer focus, Touched focused on the DS's features, such as the touch-screen, microphone, and dual-screens, Twisted has a built-in gyro to make things fresh, and Smooth Moves focused on the Wii-Remote. Unless a new peripheral or system is introduced, we won't be seeing anymore WarioWare games for a while. Also, I never said that Star Fox deserves three representatives, but it is at least deserving of two. However, the WarioWare series being recent and all, has to wait unti Nintendo's more iconic series get at least a second representative before focus can be made onto the Wario series again. I only expect 40 characters in Brawl at the most, unless of course Sakurai is considering making a lot of clones.

Here is what the ideal 40 character roster should consist of:

Confirmed Characters:
1. Mario
2. Bowser
3. Peach
4. Donkey Kong
5. Diddy Kong
6. Link
7. Zelda/Sheik
8. Samus/Zero Suit Samus
9. Yoshi
10. Kirby
11. Meta Knight
12. King Dedede
13. Fox
14. Pikachu
15. Pokemon Trainer
16. Ike
17. Lucas
18. Ice Climbers
19. Wario
20. Pit
21. Snake
22. Sonic

Character with original movesets (with the exception of Ness) (as well as Ganondorf, who I would be surpised if he did not return):
23. Luigi
24. Jigglypuff
25. Captain Falcon
26. Marth
27. Mewtwo
28. Mr. Game & Watch
29. Ganondorf

Now for what would be best after this:
30. A true second Metroid character.
31. A second Star Fox character.
32. A Mario newcomer.
33. A third Fire Emblem character.
34. A third Donkey Kong character.
35. Captain Olimar (the Pikmin series needs a representative)
36. Ray (the Custom Robo series needs a representative) or Isaac (the Golden Sun series needs a representative, especially if a third installment is being made).
37. A Retro character (someone that would surprise everyone and have a good moveset)
38. A Zelda newcomer.
39. A second F-Zero character.
40. A second Mother character, or a third Star Fox character.

 

[Zycor]

I don't mind the speculations and wants for characters, but I think some people are blowing stuff out of the water.

Any character who has appeared in a video game is eligible for a spot in Brawl, the chances of a character getting in due to popularity aren't likely. The Ice Climbers were chosen to represent the NES era in Melee, and they're original enough, are they popular? Not as much as the other Nintendo characters, did they totally make them absent from Brawl? They're in so I'd say the popularity of a series has no effect on what goes in the game.

Seeing how any characters are eligible, you can't help but do wishful thinking because we can't confirm any characters absence till the game is finally released. I'm going to go ahead and say this is a nice topic and it brings up some points, but none of it is exactly factual and nobody but Sakurai himself and the team working on Brawl can decide who will be in or not.

Even Ness has just as much chance as any character to make an appearance/a reappearance in Brawl even Tingle dare I say it could be in, no one but the development team knows for sure... and of course the respectful owners of the character.

 

[Roy-Kun]

WarioWare really needs more reps?

I mean, Wario is the only real popular character, the other ones are unlikely, same with F-Zero, with Falcon being the most popular, and the rest are now, well... unlikely.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

To start off this post, I'll respond to the popularity argument.

Ugh.

The "OMG since Ice Climbers got in and aren't popular that means that Sakurai doesn't care about popularity in ANY of his decisions" is quite possibly one of the worst arguments on this forum. That is proof that popularity is not necessary to get in, NOT that it doesn't improve another character's chances. Mario got in because of his popularity (and if you say he got in because he's the mascot of Nintendo and Mario, fun fact: it's because he's popular - if he wasn't he wouldn't be the mascot of Nintendo now, would he?).

And to Chrono: If you only look at WarioWare, that noticeably lowers the series' importance. If you look at the franchise as a whole, like everyone does with Mario, Pokémon, Kirby, and DK, Wario has...

1. Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3
2. Wario Land II
3. Wario Land 3
4. Wario's Woods
5. Wario World
6. Wario Land 4
7. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$
8. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
9. WarioWare: Twisted!
10. WarioWare: Touched!
11. WarioWare: Smooth Moves
12. Wario: Master of Disguise
13. Wario Blast: Featuring Bomberman!
14. Wario Land II DX
15. Virtual Boy Wario Land

15 games. People ask for Birdo based on the extreme popularity of the series and vast number of it, even though a small percentage of those games lack Birdo. Wario is a popular character, with a popular franchise, which is not only one of Nintendo's older franchises, but a current one as well. He deserves a counterpart just as much as DK did, or Fox does, or Samus does.

No more?

Microphone Wii Controller - Combination of motion controls and microphone controls
Classic Controller - Hearkening back to original WarioWare
Balance Board - Goes without saying that this is probably going to be used for the next game
Zapper - For shooting type mini-games
Wii Wheel - For racing type mini-games

Hell, I could see a WarioWare bundle that comes with the Balance Board, and with support for the Zapper and Wii Wheel (have groups of mini-games that use it, allowing them to be exclusive). How can you even suggest that there's no good choices for innovation in WarioWare? What about the weather channel? Or the internal clock/calendar? DS/Wii linking? Downloadable Microgames?

Treating WarioWare as a separate franchise is like treating Donkey Konga as a separate franchise. Donkey Konga has been bigger than the platforming games, so why not base how many should be in based on Konga?

 

[ChronoBound]

To start off this post, I'll respond to the popularity argument.

Ugh.

The "OMG since Ice Climbers got in and aren't popular that means that Sakurai doesn't care about popularity in ANY of his decisions" is quite possibly one of the worst arguments on this forum. That is proof that popularity is not necessary to get in, NOT that it doesn't improve another character's chances. Mario got in because of his popularity (and if you say he got in because he's the mascot of Nintendo and Mario, fun fact: it's because he's popular - if he wasn't he wouldn't be the mascot of Nintendo now, would he?).

And to Chrono: If you only look at WarioWare, that noticeably lowers the series' importance. If you look at the franchise as a whole, like everyone does with Mario, Pokémon, Kirby, and DK, Wario has...

1. Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3
2. Wario Land II
3. Wario Land 3
4. Wario's Woods
5. Wario World
6. Wario Land 4
7. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$
8. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
9. WarioWare: Twisted!
10. WarioWare: Touched!
11. WarioWare: Smooth Moves
12. Wario: Master of Disguise
13. Wario Blast: Featuring Bomberman!
14. Wario Land II DX
15. Virtual Boy Wario Land

15 games. People ask for Birdo based on the extreme popularity of the series and vast number of it, even though a small percentage of those games lack Birdo. Wario is a popular character, with a popular franchise, which is not only one of Nintendo's older franchises, but a current one as well. He deserves a counterpart just as much as DK did, or Fox does, or Samus does.

No more?

Microphone Wii Controller - Combination of motion controls and microphone controls
Classic Controller - Hearkening back to original WarioWare
Balance Board - Goes without saying that this is probably going to be used for the next game
Zapper - For shooting type mini-games
Wii Wheel - For racing type mini-games

Hell, I could see a WarioWare bundle that comes with the Balance Board, and with support for the Zapper and Wii Wheel (have groups of mini-games that use it, allowing them to be exclusive). How can you even suggest that there's no good choices for innovation in WarioWare? What about the weather channel? Or the internal clock/calendar? DS/Wii linking? Downloadable Microgames?

Treating WarioWare as a separate franchise is like treating Donkey Konga as a separate franchise. Donkey Konga has been bigger than the platforming games, so why not base how many should be in based on Konga?

Even then, the Wario series has only one significant character, Wario. Captain Syrup was only the main antagonist in two out of the five Wario Land games. If there is going to be a second character for the Wario series, it is going to be Jimmy T. Your fanboyism is clouding your judgement, Sakurai himself did not like Wario until the WarioWare games, which is why he waited until Brawl to place him in. I myself love the Wario Land and WarioWare games, however, let's be realistic, if Sakurai was strictly going by sales in terms of representation. Pokemon would have three starting characters instead of Kirby. Instead, Sakurai drums to his own beat. The only way Sakurai will place in a second Wario character would be if he becomes clone-crazy, or if he or his team finds one of the characters in the series to have potential for an outrageous or awesome moveset.

You are now disrupting my topic, if you are upset with the prognosis that me and other users have been telling you about the number of character the Wario series will be receiving, please leave and start your own topic or join another one requesting more Wario characters in Brawl. Brawl's roster will be revealed in less than a month, so I think you can contain your discontentment in those topics and not here, until then.

 

[Hippochinfat]

Lucario won't be in brawl. God himself told me.

 

[Big-Cat]

Even then, the Wario series has only one significant character, Wario. Captain Syrup was only the main antagonist in two out of the five Wario Land games. If there is going to be a second character for the Wario series, it is going to be Jimmy T. Your fanboyism is clouding your judgement, Sakurai himself did not like Wario until the WarioWare games, which is why he waited until Brawl to place him in. I myself love the Wario Land and WarioWare games, however, let's be realistic, if Sakurai was strictly going by sales in terms of representation. Pokemon would have three starting characters instead of Kirby. Instead, Sakurai drums to his own beat. The only way Sakurai will place in a second Wario character would be if he becomes clone-crazy, or if he or his team finds one of the characters in the series to have potential for an outrageous or awesome moveset.

Why would Jimmy T. be the most likely? Wouldn't Mona be the more likely one?

 

[Hippochinfat]

And seriously Geno is unpopular and unimportant. I really don't want him in.

 

[Ginger9001]

I don't mind the speculations and wants for characters, but I think some people are blowing stuff out of the water.

Any character who has appeared in a video game is eligible for a spot in Brawl, the chances of a character getting in due to popularity aren't likely. The Ice Climbers were chosen to represent the NES era in Melee, and they're original enough, are they popular? Not as much as the other Nintendo characters, did they totally make them absent from Brawl? They're in so I'd say the popularity of a series has no effect on what goes in the game.

Seeing how any characters are eligible, you can't help but do wishful thinking because we can't confirm any characters absence till the game is finally released. I'm going to go ahead and say this is a nice topic and it brings up some points, but none of it is exactly factual and nobody but Sakurai himself and the team working on Brawl can decide who will be in or not.

Even Ness has just as much chance as any character to make an appearance/a reappearance in Brawl even Tingle dare I say it could be in, no one but the development team knows for sure... and of course the respectful owners of the character.

That was....beautiful. ;3 *sniff*

 

[ChronoBound]

Why would Jimmy T. be the most likely? Wouldn't Mona be the more likely one?

Here is why I think Jimmy T. is the most important out of the WarioWare characters:

In most of the WarioWare games, he or his family are part of the remixes.

In the first WarioWare, the remixes contain Jimmy T. with different colored 'fros.
In Touched, the remixes have Jimmy T.'s brother and sister.
In Twisted, the remix has Jimmy T.'s mother and father.
In Smooth Moves, the remixes are Jimmy T. and a look alike of him.

Jimmy T. is featured the most prominently out of all of the characters in the WarioWare games, with next in line being Mona or 9-Volt.

 

[ChronoBound]

And seriously Geno is unpopular and unimportant. I really don't want him in.

He may be unimportant in the overall Mario series, however, you cannot deny that Super Mario RPG (and Geno to an extent) is quite popular and has many fans.

 

[Hippochinfat]

He may be unimportant in the overall Mario series, however, you cannot deny that Super Mario RPG (and Geno to an extent) is quite popular and has many fans.

No. Super mario RPG isn't very popular at all because of the playstation already being out and the Nintendo 64 coming out in North America soon after. He doesn't have many fans either.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

So to sum it up: You make a post giving your opinion for the purpose of getting replies with "I agree" or none at all.

Grow up. Cry me a river, why don't you? Oh, I'm responding to your poor assessment of the Wario franchise, I'm sooo mean. It's not trolling. If you can't take responses that aren't the most glowing praise, don't give your opinion. I'm correcting your assessment of WarioWare characters, which seems to suggest that WarioWare isn't that big, and that Sakurai doesn't really care about putting anything from Wario Land at all.

And why do you keep saying "omg popularity isn't important!" A funny little thing called truth/reality/everything that isn't a logical fallacy (ie, your suggestion that popularity is unimportant) says that such a statement is, without a doubt, completely untrue.

I'm looking at actual factors, you're making assumptions. Yeah, so fanboyish of me to say "hey, look at these truths!" Not biased at all to use your bias to say what Sakurai wants to do. Let's count the indication that the series is declining. Done. There are no indications, because the series is still popular. The series is still good. And if he likes WarioWare so much, what makes you think he won't put Jimmy T. or Mona in? Just because he didn't like Wario until WarioWare doesn't mean he'll ignore that it's a long-standing franchise, and his unusual inclusion of Wario's classic costume shows that he isn't ignoring its importance to Wario. And even if he doesn't include any characters from Wario Land doesn't mean it doesn't factor into the longevity of the character's franchise. In a hypothetical situation, if Sakurai didn't like DKC, do you honestly think he'd ignore it and only focus on classic DK and Donkey Konga in determining the size of the franchise? Of course it seems like F-Zero is bigger than the WarioWare franchise and older, because you're intentionally ignoring the whole sum of Wario's games, which not only came first, but they also made more Wario games and sold more Wario games. Seriously, this argument has continued mostly because of bias against Wario, not my bias towards Wario. You've created this inane concept that Sakurai wouldn't take into consideration most of the games Wario's appeared in when considering who or what should be in Brawl because he didn't like the Wario Land games. We've seen Wario use the shoulder charge in Brawl, so Sakurai obviously isn't ignoring the Wario Land games.

And wow, you know, if you didn't suggest that some one-time character in a popular game is worthy, but a character which appears in every game in his respective series simply does not deserve entry, I might have thought it wasn't bias. Seriously, your assessment screams "I don't know these characters, and I don't care about them either, so Assist Trophy"

 

[ChronoBound]

So to sum it up: You make a post giving your opinion for the purpose of getting replies with "I agree" or none at all.



And wow, you know, if you didn't suggest that some one-time character in a popular game is worthy, but a character which appears in every game in his respective series simply does not deserve entry, I might have thought it wasn't bias. Seriously, your assessment screams "I don't know these characters, and I don't care about them either, so Assist Trophy"

Yeah, which is why I have placed characters that I am fan of such as Mike Jones, Leaf, and Ness, in the unlikely category. The whole reason I posted the "My Opinion" Part for each series in this analysis topic was that people would know which characters I personally favor. Take Krystal for example, I absolutely despise Krystal, yet I think she is the most likely character from the Star Fox series to get in as the second playable representative. Finally, there are no characters that are in high demand from the Wario series by either Western Smash fans or Japanese Smash fans. If you want to continue this pointless discussion til the roster is released, continue to do so, however, I would personally stop, as the discussion has gone on long enough.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

The discussion only went on "long enough" when you couldn't come up with a good response.

I've rebutted every single argument you've made against the Wario franchise, the only one I've not rebutted is one I cannot rebut, it's that they aren't often requested. But did Sakurai give you a list of every character request he's made? The WarioWare franchise has not only been consistently good, inspired, and well-liked, it's also very recognizable. If F-Zero gets a second rep before WarioWare, which actually earned it by appealing to a mass audience, which SSBB consists of, as well as being a really good series, I'd be very disappointed. They could barely make a moveset without making things up for Captain Falcon, what would the only possible rep - Black Shadow - do? Basically be Ganondorf without the Ganondorf? Jimmy T. would actually be a unique character, with a moveset unlike anyone else's.

 

[ChronoBound]

The discussion only went on "long enough" when you couldn't come up with a good response.

I've rebutted every single argument you've made against the Wario franchise, the only one I've not rebutted is one I cannot rebut, it's that they aren't often requested. But did Sakurai give you a list of every character request he's made? The WarioWare franchise has not only been consistently good, inspired, and well-liked, it's also very recognizable. If F-Zero gets a second rep before WarioWare, which actually earned it by appealing to a mass audience, which SSBB consists of, as well as being a really good series, I'd be very disappointed. They could barely make a moveset without making things up for Captain Falcon, what would the only possible rep - Black Shadow - do? Basically be Ganondorf without the Ganondorf? Jimmy T. would actually be a unique character, with a moveset unlike anyone else's.

No you haven't, everyone here has rebutted your arguments. Your argument merely consists of" WarioWare sells better than most of Nintendo's series, therefore it deserves more representation." Everyone who has responded to your arguments has rebutted your argument, unless of course you are talking about the bizarro version of this thread in which I rebut your arguments with discussion of pie.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. It sells better
2. It scores better

And let me guess, you have some amazing reason why Star Fox and F-Zero deserve two reps that WarioWare doesn't?

Just a reminder - believing that posts which do nothing to rebut anyone else's argument doesn't alter reality to make it so.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

hey chrono is your list in order of probability cause in the mario section i think that bowser jr. has more of a chance then geno. Geno was in one game over ten years ago. whil Bowser jr. has been in multiple games, is the main villian in mario sunshine, and also a main villian in mario galaxy. Plus he is more recognizable to a wider audience.

 

[ChronoBound]

hey chrono is your list in order of probability cause in the mario section i think that bowser jr. has more of a chance then geno. Geno was in one game over ten years ago. whil Bowser jr. has been in multiple games, is the main villian in mario sunshine, and also a main villian in mario galaxy. Plus he is more recognizable to a wider audience.

Not it isn't. Bowser Jr. is definitely the most deserving of the characters I mentioned in the Mario section, and has become an important character in the main Mario series. However, personally I would prefer Geno or Paper Mario over him. Also, Geno and Bowser Jr. are basically tied in terms of likliness, and if there are not going to be any more third-party characters in Brawl (Geno is a third-party character), Bowser Jr. will likely be the one to get in, if Sakurai does decide to place in a Mario newcomer.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

hey chrono is your list in order of probability cause in the mario section i think that bowser jr. has more of a chance then geno. Geno was in one game over ten years ago. whil Bowser jr. has been in multiple games, is the main villian in mario sunshine, and also a main villian in mario galaxy. Plus he is more recognizable to a wider audience.

Bowser Jr is only liked because of Nintendo company brainwashing on younger individuals and shoving the character down people's throats...

 

[Super-dude]

1. It sells better
2. It scores better

And let me guess, you have some amazing reason why Star Fox and F-Zero deserve two reps that WarioWare doesn't?

Just a reminder - believing that posts which do nothing to rebut anyone else's argument doesn't alter reality to make it so.

i dunno, could it be that star fox and f-zero have been in more smash bros. games so theyve earned the right to have more characters?

whereas wario is just a newcomer, so it doesnt seem right that theyd bring in characters of his family when theyve got people who have been there longer and are more deserving of representation

 

[Hippochinfat]

1. It sells better
2. It scores better

And let me guess, you have some amazing reason why Star Fox and F-Zero deserve two reps that WarioWare doesn't?

Just a reminder - believing that posts which do nothing to rebut anyone else's argument doesn't alter reality to make it so.

Are you kidding? F-zero games have MUCH higher scores then wario games.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Bowser Jr is only liked because of Nintendo company brainwashing on younger individuals and shoving the character down people's throats...

why the hell are you stalking me? go away seriously. Just cause i dont like geno doesnt mean you get to stalk and flame my every post about him.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

why the hell are you stalking me? go away seriously. Just cause i dont like geno doesnt mean you get to stalk and flame my every post about him.

You seriously think I care that much about what you say?

This just happens to be one of the threads I visit

I just wanted to give my opinion on the subject


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Just for the record...I've posted in this thread 57 times and he posted twice...both of his today.

If anything, he's stalking me.