The Ultimate Life Form ~ Shadow the Hedgehog for Smash Ultimate! (Maria...)

[TyrantLizardKing]

I just love that Sonic 06's theme is not only in Smash in some way, but also Sonic's victory theme. I love how we have references to more than one Sonic game, not just classic. Despite not liking Unleashed, and admittedly the music didn't do as much for me, I'm glad it has content too(though the story was pretty sweet, heh). I could go on for other games.

I just want some Shadow OST...

Agreed, 06 still has my favourite game soundtrack of all time haha. Unleashed I've grown to appreciate more as the years have gone by, do wish it had more representation personally.

Seeing as two songs from it were remixed I hope one day some of Shadow's music can get in, it's not half bad.

 

[volbound1700]

I personally favor Tails over Shadow because I loved the Genesis era of Sonic and consider it the best era for the franchise but I still hope Shadow can make it into Smash in some form. At this point, I would be happy with having Knuckles and Tails back as Mii costumes and Shadow as alt skin of Sonic.

 

[FancySmash]

The way I see it, Tails and Shadow each fill two totally different roles.

If they want to add a unique Sonic character, I'd prefer they pick Tails (or Eggman, but I understand that might have some trouble in implementation). Even when Tails first hit the scene, his ability of flight set him apart from Sonic. Shadow... was unfortunately a Sonic clone when first introduced, only he lacked things like the bounce bracelet and... the magic hands. OK, those aren't to useful honestly...

Thus, that's why if they want an echo, Shadow's the clear choice here. Shadow can perform some of Sonic's existing moves only with his own flair put into them. Some moves might need certain visual changes, but I don't think it'd be that much of an issue, just look at Dark Samus.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

The way I see it, Tails and Shadow each fill two totally different roles.

If they want to add a unique Sonic character, I'd prefer they pick Tails (or Eggman, but I understand that might have some trouble in implementation). Even when Tails first hit the scene, his ability of flight set him apart from Sonic. Shadow... was unfortunately a Sonic clone when first introduced, only he lacked things like the bounce bracelet and... the magic hands. OK, those aren't to useful honestly...

Thus, that's why if they want an echo, Shadow's the clear choice here. Shadow can perform some of Sonic's existing moves only with his own flair put into them. Some moves might need certain visual changes, but I don't think it'd be that much of an issue, just look at Dark Samus.

This is what bugs me the most right now. Going by Sakurai’s criteria for Echo Fighters Shadow fits the bill perfectly, yet his chances are pretty much dead in the water because he was slapped with the glorified Timer role he’s had for years and they aren’t going to break him out anytime soon. Tails likewise would work amazingly as a semi-clone like Isabelle, but again they probably won’t do him because of a silly reason like his Spirit or SEGA having dumb decisions.

 

[ZTurtle]

The way I see it, Tails and Shadow each fill two totally different roles.

If they want to add a unique Sonic character, I'd prefer they pick Tails (or Eggman, but I understand that might have some trouble in implementation). Even when Tails first hit the scene, his ability of flight set him apart from Sonic. Shadow... was unfortunately a Sonic clone when first introduced, only he lacked things like the bounce bracelet and... the magic hands. OK, those aren't to useful honestly...

Thus, that's why if they want an echo, Shadow's the clear choice here. Shadow can perform some of Sonic's existing moves only with his own flair put into them. Some moves might need certain visual changes, but I don't think it'd be that much of an issue, just look at Dark Samus.

Very true. Unique Shadow would be cool and all, but Tails or Eggman probably should take priority for a unique spot given their legacy and greater differences from Sonic. And Echo Shadow would have still been so cool. I mean, the fact that Ken can have so many differences in animations and functionality and still be an Echo makes me even more bummed that Shadow didn't make it. He would have made such a cool Echo duo with Ken... ah well, no use crying over spilled milk at this point.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Admittedly one thing that's crossed my mind is Classic Sonic. Everyone knows how much he's been getting pushed again ever since Generations in 2011, and I feel like if Sakurai wanted a second Sonic character he'd likely vouch for Tails or Shadow. SEGA on the other hand would toss aside both and push for Classic Sonic, which Sakurai would in turn reject given how much Sonic's moveset takes from Classic already. Neither could come to an agreement, so Tails was Spirited while Shadow returned to AT status.

I find a little striking that there doesn't appear to be a Classic Sonic Spirit when we get other things like Jet and the Werehog. I worry that SEGA would keep pushing him and Sonic would not only have two similar stages, but two similar characters as well.

(note I'm in no way a Classic hater, I just dislike how much push he's been getting over Modern to the point where Modern can barely stand on his own anymore)

That explains why Shadow's an AT again, Sega clearly wants Classic Sonic in Smash, no ifs, ands or buts about it, at this point they should just retire Modern Sonic and stick with Classic and nothing of value would be lost (well except for maybe some of the cast that we have today, but they can easily fit in with Classic Sonic with some serious revamps, who wouldn't want a Classic version of Shadow or Silver, or even some of the female cast) and it really wouldn't shock me at all if Modern Sonic got replaced by his Classic counterpart, it's probably why they've been pushing him so hard lately, they are trying to phase out Modern Sonic for good!

Plus Classic Sonic fits alongside Mega Man who also uses his Classic incarnation as well, as for that down-air attack, it actually comes from Sonic the Fighters (Sonic uses that as well I think), not Sonic Battle.

And if you want to get super-technical, Incineroar kind of somewhat resembles Shadow the Hedgehog to a degree (even though he's a tiger and all), so it kind of does soften the blow a bit (plus one of his alt colors reverses his current color scheme).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That doesn't explain at all why Shadow's an AT.

All it explains is why Sonic has mostly classic music for non-vocal themes. At best.

We don't know at all why Shadow is still an AT. Sakurai may have had no interest in upgrading him. Sega might've said no. Sakurai might've wanted him more than an Echo but had no time. Or Sega said Echo only. There's a lot of explanations, but they're nothing more than possibilities. Let remember that the Sonic series is heavily represented by Modern and Classic stuff. It's only Sonic that was mostly a nod to Classic(with small nods to Modern, moreso than it used to be). Shadow is purely Modern.

...I forget if Shadow could dig in Knuckles' Chaotix. Otherwise, he's also pretty much a Modern representation.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

That explains why Shadow's an AT again, Sega clearly wants Classic Sonic in Smash, no ifs, ands or buts about it, at this point they should just retire Modern Sonic and stick with Classic and nothing of value would be lost (well except for maybe some of the cast that we have today, but they can easily fit in with Classic Sonic with some serious revamps, who wouldn't want a Classic version of Shadow or Silver, or even some of the female cast) and it really wouldn't shock me at all if Modern Sonic got replaced by his Classic counterpart, it's probably why they've been pushing him so hard lately, they are trying to phase out Modern Sonic for good!

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

That doesn't explain at all why Shadow's an AT.

All it explains is why Sonic has mostly classic music for non-vocal themes. At best.

We don't know at all why Shadow is still an AT. Sakurai may have had no interest in upgrading him. Sega might've said no. Sakurai might've wanted him more than an Echo but had no time. Or Sega said Echo only. There's a lot of explanations, but they're nothing more than possibilities. Let remember that the Sonic series is heavily represented by Modern and Classic stuff. It's only Sonic that was mostly a nod to Classic(with small nods to Modern, moreso than it used to be). Shadow is purely Modern.

...I forget if Shadow could dig in Knuckles' Chaotix. Otherwise, he's also pretty much a Modern representation.

Based on the datamines and Sakurai statements, I believe if Shadow was ever considered, he simply didn't make it to the final roster draft. If Sakurai really wanted him as Echo he likely would have been held off for DLC like Mewtwo in Smash 4, either SEGA said no or he was never planned at all.

And Knuckles couldn't dig in Chaotix, all his abilities are Modern-based: digging and punch combo from Adventure 1 along with the Homing Attack from Rivals, but I think his run animation is based on how he runs in S3&K.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

That doesn't explain at all why Shadow's an AT.

All it explains is why Sonic has mostly classic music for non-vocal themes. At best.

We don't know at all why Shadow is still an AT. Sakurai may have had no interest in upgrading him. Sega might've said no. Sakurai might've wanted him more than an Echo but had no time. Or Sega said Echo only. There's a lot of explanations, but they're nothing more than possibilities. Let remember that the Sonic series is heavily represented by Modern and Classic stuff. It's only Sonic that was mostly a nod to Classic(with small nods to Modern, moreso than it used to be). Shadow is purely Modern.

...I forget if Shadow could dig in Knuckles' Chaotix. Otherwise, he's also pretty much a Modern representation.

Shadow was never in Knuckles Chaotix at all (that was all Knux's game, which also had Vector, Charmy, Espio as playable characters, it was also Mighty's last appearance until Mania), Shadow didn't make his proper debut til SA2 which is a Modern title.

But regardless, Sega only wants Sonic (to represent Classic Sega) playable, and Bayonetta likewise is the Modern rep (and fills in whatever edgy role Shadow might have fulfilled which I believe was the intent), we don't know if we're getting a 2nd rep for either of the two series yet via DLC (if Sonic gets a 2nd rep, it's going to be either Tails or Dr. Eggman), not sure who Bayo could get as a 2nd rep aside from Jeanne (Rodin is already ruled out due to him being an Assist Trophy), unless it's coming from the third game that's coming out next year.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Shadow was never in Knuckles Chaotix at all (that was all Knux's game), he didn't make his proper debut til SA2 which is a Modern title.

I never said Shadow was in Chaotix.

But regardless, Sega only wants Sonic (to represent Classic Sega), and Bayonetta likewise is the Modern rep (and fills in whatever edgy role Shadow might have fulfilled), we don't know if we're getting a 2nd rep for either of the two series yet via DLC (if Sonic gets a 2nd rep, it's going to be either Tails or Dr. Eggman), not sure who Bayo could get as a 2nd rep aside from Jeanne (Rodin is already ruled out due to him being an Assist Trophy), unless it's coming from the third game that's coming out.

You have no real evidence to suggest they only care about the Sonic series that way. Otherwise we wouldn't have Lost World's stage. Or Sonic to have more than one modern move(The Homing Attack is a pure modern move). Or tons of music also from the modern games.

Bayonetta is not a "modern rep". She's a representation of her own series. If Sonic gets a second rep, it'll be whatever happens because there's zero evidence to suggest that it matters whether it's modern or classic. Bayonetta is irrelevant to how the Sonic series is represented(which is a high mix of both to begin with, and always has been anyway. Big The Cat being in each game is hard proof of that, same with others like Emerl, Shadow, and so on. The fact Green Hill Zone has Silver, a Modern character in the background shows it's not as blatant as you're trying to make it). In fact, what we already can figure out is they want to throw Classic Sonic(the actual character) in everything as much as possible. It doesn't mean they refuse to represent the modern side, which is highly represented unless it's a literal Classic Sonic game(which isn't even often, as there's more modern games these days).

Basically? The evidence shows they care about Classic Sonic more than Modern Sonic when it comes to content. ...That's pretty much all we know for sure. We have no legitimate clue why Shadow is still an AT. Sega may have not been remotely the reason why. Sakurai might not have even wanted him playable and it never was up to Sega to say yes or no. That's how huge the possibilities are.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

That explains why Shadow's an AT again, Sega clearly wants Classic Sonic in Smash, no ifs, ands or buts about it

This has absolutely no correlation. I suggest you stop speaking for Sega when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. If Sega clearly wanted Classic Sonic in Smash, we would've gotten Classic Sonic playable in Smash lol

at this point they should just retire Modern Sonic and stick with Classic and nothing of value would be lost (well except for maybe some of the cast that we have today, but they can easily fit in with Classic Sonic with some serious revamps, who wouldn't want a Classic version of Shadow or Silver, or even some of the female cast)

What does this even have to do with Smash? More negative projecting and none of it is making any sense.

and it really wouldn't shock me at all if Modern Sonic got replaced by his Classic counterpart, it's probably why they've been pushing him so hard lately, they are trying to phase out Modern Sonic for good!

They've been pushing Classic Sonic so hard because the Sonic fanbase is extremely divisive between Classic and Modern fans. People hate Modern Sonic, and prefer Classic Sonic, therefore they want to give both to old and new fans. It has nothing to do with phasing out Modern Sonic. If that was the case, he would've been gone ages ago.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

I never said Shadow was in Chaotix.


You have no real evidence to suggest they only care about the Sonic series that way. Otherwise we wouldn't have Lost World's stage. Or Sonic to have more than one modern move(The Homing Attack is a pure modern move). Or tons of music also from the modern games.

Bayonetta is not a "modern rep". She's a representation of her own series. If Sonic gets a second rep, it'll be whatever happens because there's zero evidence to suggest that it matters whether it's modern or classic. Bayonetta is irrelevant to how the Sonic series is represented(which is a high mix of both to begin with, and always has been anyway. Big The Cat being in each game is hard proof of that, same with others like Emerl, Shadow, and so on. The fact Green Hill Zone has Silver, a Modern character in the background shows it's not as blatant as you're trying to make it). In fact, what we already can figure out is they want to throw Classic Sonic(the actual character) in everything as much as possible. It doesn't mean they refuse to represent the modern side, which is highly represented unless it's a literal Classic Sonic game(which isn't even often, as there's more modern games these days).

Basically? The evidence shows they care about Classic Sonic more than Modern Sonic when it comes to content. ...That's pretty much all we know for sure. We have no legitimate clue why Shadow is still an AT. Sega may have not been remotely the reason why. Sakurai might not have even wanted him playable and it never was up to Sega to say yes or no. That's how huge the possibilities are.

Homing Attack actually made it's debut in one of the earlier 3D Sonic games during the Classic era (forgot which game it was and it was under a different name), but started getting it's full usage in Sonic Adventure.

True you do have a point there (I still think Sega had a hand on deciding who gets in when it comes to their franchises, they are after all one of the stingiest companies when it comes to content, especially if it involves Sonic), but I think as long as they continue to promote Classic Sonic (especially when it comes to content for Smash) in the Modern era, we won't see another Sonic rep happening for a very long time, unless either Classic Sonic replaces Modern Sonic entirely, or they stop promoting Classic Sonic in unwanted Modern Sonic games (it worked fine in Generations, but failed horribly in Forces)!

This has absolutely no correlation. I suggest you stop speaking for Sega when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. If Sega clearly wanted Classic Sonic in Smash, we would've gotten Classic Sonic playable in Smash lol



What does this even have to do with Smash? More negative projecting and none of it is making any sense.



They've been pushing Classic Sonic so hard because the Sonic fanbase is extremely divisive between Classic and Modern fans. People hate Modern Sonic, and prefer Classic Sonic, therefore they want to give both to old and new fans. It has nothing to do with phasing out Modern Sonic. If that was the case, he would've been gone ages ago.

I'm just about done with this entire conversation, Sega can't have both Sonics at the same time promoting their games, they need to choose one and go with it!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Homing Attack actually made it's debut in one of the earlier 3D Sonic games during the Classic era (forgot which game it was and it was under a different name), but started getting it's full usage in Sonic Adventure.

You forgot the part where it was changed to specifically lock-on to an opponent, something that debuted in Unleashed. It's a Modern move now. I already mentioned that beforehand in a previous message. They made him a bit more modern than before(but heavily based upon Classic).

True you do have a point there (I still think Sega had a hand on deciding who gets in when it comes to their franchises, they are after all one of the stingiest companies when it comes to content, especially if it involves Sonic), but I think as long as they continue to promote Classic Sonic (especially when it comes to content for Smash) in the Modern era, we won't see another Sonic rep happening for a very long time, unless either Classic Sonic replaces Modern Sonic entirely, or they stop promoting Classic Sonic in unwanted Modern Sonic games (it worked fine in Generations, but failed horribly in Forces)!

Which doesn't mean at all that he asked Sega to allow Shadow as playable. We have no reason to believe he was trying to upgrade him. Knuckles being there is proof of nothing. Other than him being another modern thing, Knuckles didn't change anything of note of the situation. That Sega has agreed upon tons of Classic and Modern representation in Smash.

Again, as said, it has no correlation. What happens in their own games means little for the actual Smash games. Maybe this is what's happening, but Sakurai has not delved into anything related to Shadow. For that matter, this also is presuming there's no way he could be DLC when we can't even say that for sure. We do have a pattern to follow that characters have never gone from an NPC to PC in the same game itself via DLC, but we also had a pattern of 2 or more Pokemon characters added in a new Smash as playable. Smash 4 had 1. Ultimate had 1. Patterns mean nothing as well. Not that I think he's going to get in, but I doubt we're getting another Sonic character anyway. Sega more notably has been promoting "Sonic only" as is. Dr. Eggman nor Tails really are hardly in much of a position to think they have a decent chance as DLC either. They have nothing going for them other than the fact Knuckles and Shadow are AT's. This is not a real boon.

 

[amazonevan19]

Based on the evidence it seems Shadow wasn't planned at all and I really hope the Grinch + negative backlash after the AT genocide will have them reconsider for a wave 2. I have a very hard time believing Sakurai or NoA or someone at Nintendo doesn't know about how much Shadow was speculated to be in at this point. I don't blame them for not considering him for base or wave 1 given he probably didn't do terribly well on the ballot due to AT hell, but there's absolutely no way they don't know by now after this Smash speculation season.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Based on the evidence it seems Shadow wasn't planned at all and I really hope the Grinch + negative backlash after the AT genocide will have them reconsider for a wave 2. I have a very hard time believing Sakurai or NoA or someone at Nintendo doesn't know about how much Shadow was speculated to be in at this point. I don't blame them for not considering him for base or wave 1 given he probably didn't do terribly well on the ballot due to AT hell, but there's absolutely no way they don't know by now after this Smash speculation season.

If anything I hope Aaron Webber noticed at least, unlike the company he works for he's actually quite in-touch with the Sonic community. Doubt he has the power to change anything but we know he passes things along a lot.

Honestly I can't say in good faith I'm over Shadow's deconfirmation still, as I've been thinking about it literally since I saw it happen. I would say I'm over my disappointment, but not my confusion. Shadow had eeeeeeverything lining up for him to be that last Echo Fighter. He plays like Sonic in his home series, is very popular, had the opportunity to get into Smash with other low-chancers like Chrom...and yet he didn't. It is just so bizarre and an illogical fallacy to me, the one time I can say Sakurai has actually left me truly confused over a character exclusion. I didn't even feel this way about Ridley missing out on Smash 4.

Like I've said several times now, it's at least good that his following increased dramatically with this speculation period and is unlikely to die off in the future I'd say. I guess I'm still holding out for a hypothetical scenario in which SEGA hears the outcry and goes knocking on Sakurai's door with a more cooperative mindset.

Ironically I've been playing Shadow's a game a lot these last few days, probably to help me cope lol. I know among the first things I plan to do is head to Training and pull his AT to see how much its changed. Some people were saying he apparently has new voice clips, but that might just be from those who didn't hear him in Smash 4. At least his model and animations got hugely improved I guess.

 

[DarkFoxTeam]

All this bodes well for Shadow in the far future. Probably in the next Smash game? People's request for Shadow spiked once Echoes were confirmed to be a thing and people in both the East and West have been asking for him. I know Japan specifically was also banking on him to be an Echo and there's still fans over there asking for Shadow on Twitter. You can even see some in the form of tweets in Sega's picture of Sonic they drew to promote Ultimate. I don't think it's any stretch of the imagination to say that both Nintendo and Sega have noticed the demand for the character. We just have to hope he's at least considered in the future (whether it's in another title or DLC).

 

[TerminatorLOL]

I don't know, Shadow getting into the next game still feels like it would be "too little to late" for me. Sakurai raised the bar so high for this game, that I don't want to even think about how they can follow this. Its all or nothing for me.

Still if there is a second wave of DLC for this game and that wave includes echos, not just starting from scratch new characters, then Shadow might still have some chance. Who knows if they willing to make AT's fighters in the same game, though I'm sure the demand is there especially, for Waluigi and Isaac.

Chrom pulling double duty as a fighter and Robin's Final Smash made me throw away the only unwritten rule I believed about who can be on the roster. We got so many curve balls in that last direct that I can't say anything is likely or unlikely any more. So it can't hurt to keep showing support for even your favorite deconfirmed characters, like our boy Shadow.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I don't know, Shadow getting into the next game still feels like it would be "too little to late" for me. Sakurai raised the bar so high for this game, that I don't want to even think about how they can follow this. Its all or nothing for me.

Still if there is a second wave of DLC for this game and that wave includes echos, not just starting from scratch new characters, then Shadow might still have some chance. Who knows if they willing to make AT's fighters in the same game, though I'm sure the demand is there especially for Waluigi and Isaac.

Chrome pulling double duty as a fighter and Robin's Final Smash made me throw away the only unwritten rule I believed about who can be on the roster. We got no many curve balls in that last direct that I can't say anything is likely or unlikely any more. So it can't hurt to keep showing support for even your favorite deconfirmed characters, like our boy Shadow.

This, really. If Sakurai ever decides to scout for more Echo Fighters, Shadow is right there. Chrom snapped several rules so it's just a matter of a character being chosen at this rate.

Don't stop showing your support people.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

This, really. If Sakurai ever decides to scout for more Echo Fighters, Shadow is right there. Chrom snapped several rules so it's just a matter of a character being chosen at this rate.

Don't stop showing your support people.

Funny, how a FE character more or less helped me re-considered Shadow as a possibility!

While he is still my most-wanted character (still very upset that he's not in base game, at least Incineroar softens the blow a bit (even though Gardevoir was my most-wanted Pokemon newcomer), it's best to lay low for now and support whoever we get in the first Wave of DLC, the sales from the First Fighter Pass will determine whether or not we get a Wave 2 featuring Echoes.

Who knows what Sega and Nintendo are thinking right now after that direct.

 

[kodoru__]

When I heard that Joker was chosen as DLC, I was completely accept it by myself.
For Sega, it is likely to be more profitable to add a character from a completely new game than the additional character of a series already in Smash.
I still feel sad because I wanted Shadow, but I think Sega made a good choice.

 

[amazonevan19]

Sega: Can give Bayonetta and Joker, can't give Shadow

s m f h

like I'm happy for the Joker/Persona fans and all but this one really stings, ngl

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I want to die

They ****ing know

Sorry for triple post but this is pretty important. I have an big announcement/request.

The only way we're going to get the attention we need for Shadow is consistent, constant, positive, organic support. We need to make some noise. Not just tweeting hashtags, sharing pictures on social media, or starting a petition (although those are great). But somewhat of a magnum opus regarding Shadow and why he should be included, addressed directly to Sakurai and the Smash Ultimate team.

To that end, I wrote the below letter, and I need your guys' input in terms of anything I may have missed, phraseology I should change, nuances of stuff I should or should not mention, etc. (I didn't go into detail on Shadow being modded, for example, due to Sakurai's perceived distate for said mods)

Most importantly, I need this translated into Japanese. I know it's not an easy task at all, but as you are very well aware, English is not Sakurai's mother tongue, and an appeal in his native language would probably go over much, much better. I also need to know the best way to get this out there, into the hands it needs to go. I know that the King K Rool thank you letter got sent to Nintendo somehow and they eventually passed along word to Sakurai? I don't know, but having the below letter, in both English and Japanese, that we can send to Nintendo (and somehow Sakurai), would immensely help our cause.

I spent too much time on this and need to get back to writing papers and studying for finals, but I gave the below my all. Please, if you or anyone you know would be willing to work on translating, pass along word. Thank you.

Spoiler

Dear Masahiro Sakurai,

On behalf of the entire Smash community, thank you for your tireless work and dedication to bringing us the amazing game that is Smash Ultimate. Your immense attention to detail and love you poured in to this project is very apparent.

With that being said, we wish to direct your attention to the reason we write this plea. We are well aware of the fact that the five planned DLC characters for Smash Ultimate have already been decided, and that no assist trophy has ever been promoted to a playable fighter in the same Smash game.

However, we feel you should make an exception for Shadow the Hedgehog.

As you are hopefully aware, Shadow is the rival of Sonic the Hedgehog. He first appeared in Sonic Adventure 2 and has made steady appearances throughout the Sonic series since then. He is a widely popular character, being second only to Sonic in terms of fan appeal.

Shadow is #1 ranked in the official Smash bros subreddit echo fighter poll. He was widely considered to be the single most likely echo fighter after Ken from Street Fighter, who you have already included in the game. Shadow’s been added into Brawl and Smash for Wii U through game modifications.

After you revealed the concept of echo fighters, Shadow had a massive surge in popularity and discussion surrounding him. The community largely felt he was an incredibly likely pick, especially after you had featured Knuckles the Echidna as an assist trophy on four separate occasions, with Shadow nowhere to be seen. Those seemed to be very deliberate hints towards Shadow’s inclusion, and when he was confirmed to simply be reprising his role as an assist trophy in the last Direct, it shocked and disappointed many.

Furthermore, Shadow was the only assist trophy featured in the opening animation for Super Smash Brothers for Wii U. He has also been involved in recent and upcoming Sonic projects, with getting his own DLC campaign in Sonic Forces and having a prominent role in Team Sonic Racing.

Given Sonic’s rich history with not only Nintendo, but gaming as a whole, Shadow would be a perfect candidate to represent modern Sonic. Your attention to detail in Sonic’s moveset is apparent, with many references to his classic and modern abilities. Shadow would fit in perfectly as a simple to program echo fighter of Sonic. After all, you have stated in an interview after Sonic’s reveal in Brawl that you played many Sonic games as inspiration, including Shadow the Hedgehog’s titular game.

Smash Ultimate has been the game where you’ve blown away fan expectations, rules, and theories. One of the most enduring rules has been that a character being in another character’s final smash would exclude them from consideration as playable. However, in Smash Ultimate, you have included Chrom from Fire Emblem as a playable character, but he is still present in Robin’s final smash.

During the Smash Ballot, the only requisite for the vote was that the character needed to be from a video game. Since this is the Smash game where you’ve broken all fan rules, why not go one final step further and break the last unbroken rule: that an assist trophy cannot be promoted to being playable in the same Smash game?

For all of the above reasons, we humbly request you consider Shadow for either future Smash Ultimate DLC or for a new Smash installment in the future. Shadow has widespread, lasting appeal, had very strong support during the Smash Ultimate speculation cycle, and has been an assist trophy now for an unprecedented three straight Smash games. The Sonic series has had only one playable fighter for three Smash games now. And, given the recent revelation of Joker from Persona 5 being the first DLC character, it seems you have a strong working relationship with SEGA, so you can request Shadow as a playable fighter from them.

We humbly ask that Shadow be given a promotion to being playable.

Sincerely,

The Shadow for Smash campaign

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Sorry for triple post but this is pretty important. I have an big announcement/request.

The only way we're going to get the attention we need for Shadow is consistent, constant, positive, organic support. We need to make some noise. Not just tweeting hashtags, sharing pictures on social media, or starting a petition (although those are great). But somewhat of a magnum opus regarding Shadow and why he should be included, addressed directly to Sakurai and the Smash Ultimate team.

To that end, I wrote the below letter, and I need your guys' input in terms of anything I may have missed, phraseology I should change, nuances of stuff I should or should not mention, etc. (I didn't go into detail on Shadow being modded, for example, due to Sakurai's perceived distate for said mods)

Most importantly, I need this translated into Japanese. I know it's not an easy task at all, but as you are very well aware, English is not Sakurai's mother tongue, and an appeal in his native language would probably go over much, much better. I also need to know the best way to get this out there, into the hands it needs to go. I know that the King K Rool thank you letter got sent to Nintendo somehow and they eventually passed along word to Sakurai? I don't know, but having the below letter, in both English and Japanese, that we can send to Nintendo (and somehow Sakurai), would immensely help our cause.

I spent too much time on this and need to get back to writing papers and studying for finals, but I gave the below my all. Please, if you or anyone you know would be willing to work on translating, pass along word. Thank you.

Spoiler

Dear Masahiro Sakurai,

On behalf of the entire Smash community, thank you for your tireless work and dedication to bringing us the amazing game that is Smash Ultimate. Your immense attention to detail and love you poured in to this project is very apparent.

With that being said, we wish to direct your attention to the reason we write this plea. We are well aware of the fact that the five planned DLC characters for Smash Ultimate have already been decided, and that no assist trophy has ever been promoted to a playable fighter in the same Smash game.

However, we feel you should make an exception for Shadow the Hedgehog.

As you are hopefully aware, Shadow is the rival of Sonic the Hedgehog. He first appeared in Sonic Adventure 2 and has made steady appearances throughout the Sonic series since then. He is a widely popular character, being second only to Sonic in terms of fan appeal.

Shadow is #1 ranked in the official Smash bros subreddit echo fighter poll. He was widely considered to be the single most likely echo fighter after Ken from Street Fighter, who you have already included in the game. Shadow’s been added into Brawl and Smash for Wii U through game modifications.

After you revealed the concept of echo fighters, Shadow had a massive surge in popularity and discussion surrounding him. The community largely felt he was an incredibly likely pick, especially after you had featured Knuckles the Echidna as an assist trophy on four separate occasions, with Shadow nowhere to be seen. Those seemed to be very deliberate hints towards Shadow’s inclusion, and when he was confirmed to simply be reprising his role as an assist trophy in the last Direct, it shocked and disappointed many.

Furthermore, Shadow was the only assist trophy featured in the opening animation for Super Smash Brothers for Wii U. He has also been involved in recent and upcoming Sonic projects, with getting his own DLC campaign in Sonic Forces and having a prominent role in Team Sonic Racing.

Given Sonic’s rich history with not only Nintendo, but gaming as a whole, Shadow would be a perfect candidate to represent modern Sonic. Your attention to detail in Sonic’s moveset is apparent, with many references to his classic and modern abilities. Shadow would fit in perfectly as a simple to program echo fighter of Sonic. After all, you have stated in an interview after Sonic’s reveal in Brawl that you played many Sonic games as inspiration, including Shadow the Hedgehog’s titular game.

Smash Ultimate has been the game where you’ve blown away fan expectations, rules, and theories. One of the most enduring rules has been that a character being in another character’s final smash would exclude them from consideration as playable. However, in Smash Ultimate, you have included Chrom from Fire Emblem as a playable character, but he is still present in Robin’s final smash.

During the Smash Ballot, the only requisite for the vote was that the character needed to be from a video game. Since this is the Smash game where you’ve broken all fan rules, why not go one final step further and break the last unbroken rule: that an assist trophy cannot be promoted to being playable in the same Smash game?

For all of the above reasons, we humbly request you consider Shadow for either future Smash Ultimate DLC or for a new Smash installment in the future. Shadow has widespread, lasting appeal, had very strong support during the Smash Ultimate speculation cycle, and has been an assist trophy now for an unprecedented three straight Smash games. The Sonic series has had only one playable fighter for three Smash games now. And, given the recent revelation of Joker from Persona 5 being the first DLC character, it seems you have a strong working relationship with SEGA, so you can request Shadow as a playable fighter from them.

We humbly ask that Shadow be given a promotion to being playable.

Sincerely,

The Shadow for Smash campaign

If this does succeed, Silver should replace Shadow as the Assist Trophy (or just remove Shadow's AT entirely via a patch).

And Sega's Twitter needs to stop doing memes period, it's not helping Shadow's case at all.

 

[amazonevan19]

If this does succeed, Silver should replace Shadow as the Assist Trophy (or just remove Shadow's AT entirely via a patch).

And Sega's Twitter needs to stop doing memes period, it's not helping Shadow's case at all.

Ah yes, I'll add a sentence about what Sakurai could do with Shadow's AT. Thanks.

Also on the meme, that actually was something Sonic twitter sent out a year ago, and it got retweeted into my feed so I thought it was new. My b.

Drafting a similar letter to SEGA themselves since they very well could be responsible for saying no in favor of Joker.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Ah yes, I'll add a sentence about what Sakurai could do with Shadow's AT. Thanks.

Also on the meme, that actually was something Sonic twitter sent out a year ago, and it got retweeted into my feed so I thought it was new. My b.

Drafting a similar letter to SEGA themselves since they very well could be responsible for saying no in favor of Joker.

And sadly with Joker now being the 3rd rep for Sega (which is a big first, as Sega is now the first ever 3rd Party company to get 3 different franchise reps without having either one of their main franchise reps getting an Echo (unlike Konami or Capcom who have Richter and Ken as their 3rd character), a 2nd Sonic or Bayonetta rep is definitely not happening at all anymore, Sega clearly wanted their recent Persona game to get repped and this was the reason why Shadow's an assist again, Joker pretty much stole his spot!

I know Joker is technically an Atlus rep first, but Sega owns Atlus and the entire Persona franchise as a whole.

The only way Shadow really happens now is if Konami and Capcom gets a 4th rep before Sega does or vice versa (Konami doesn't have a whole lot of franchises to choose from, Bomberman's not getting in anytime soon due to him being an assist trophy, and Castlevania already has two reps, so they are the most likely franchise to get Konami a 4th rep, probably the Belmont that is the 3rd most popular behind Richter).

Capcom on the other hand has a huge amount of choices that would make for a very good 4th rep (Street Fighter and Monster Hunter are the top choices), out of all the third party companies, Capcom's library of characters is massive (if we go by just Street Fighter alone).

 

[hposter]

Gasp, we should have known all along...

 

[TerminatorLOL]

And sadly with Joker now being the 3rd rep for Sega (which is a big first, as Sega is now the first ever 3rd Party company to get 3 different franchise reps without having either one of their main franchise reps getting an Echo (unlike Konami or Capcom who have Richter and Ken as their 3rd character), a 2nd Sonic or Bayonetta rep is definitely not happening at all anymore, Sega clearly wanted their recent Persona game to get repped and this was the reason why Shadow's an assist again, Joker pretty much stole his spot!

I know Joker is technically an Atlus rep first, but Sega owns Atlus and the entire Persona franchise as a whole.

The only way Shadow really happens now is if Konami and Capcom gets a 4th rep before Sega does or vice versa (Konami doesn't have a whole lot of franchises to choose from, Bomberman's not getting in anytime soon due to him being an assist trophy, and Castlevania already has two reps, so they are the most likely franchise to get Konami a 4th rep, probably the Belmont that is the 3rd most popular behind Richter).

Capcom on the other hand has a huge amount of choices that would make for a very good 4th rep (Street Fighter and Monster Hunter are the top choices), out of all the third party companies, Capcom's library of characters is massive (if we go by just Street Fighter alone).

Fans are the only ones who really care about reps.

I really doubt Nintendo or Sakurai care how many characters one 3rd party company gets over another. Remember all fan made rules can be thrown in the trash.

Characters are going to be picked because they can make DLC money or Nintendo/Sakuria thought they would be neat. Shadow's odds for a hypothetical wave 2 remain the same.

 

[Luigifan18]

And sadly with Joker now being the 3rd rep for Sega (which is a big first, as Sega is now the first ever 3rd Party company to get 3 different franchise reps without having either one of their main franchise reps getting an Echo (unlike Konami or Capcom who have Richter and Ken as their 3rd character), a 2nd Sonic or Bayonetta rep is definitely not happening at all anymore, Sega clearly wanted their recent Persona game to get repped and this was the reason why Shadow's an assist again, Joker pretty much stole his spot!

I know Joker is technically an Atlus rep first, but Sega owns Atlus and the entire Persona franchise as a whole.

The only way Shadow really happens now is if Konami and Capcom gets a 4th rep before Sega does or vice versa (Konami doesn't have a whole lot of franchises to choose from, Bomberman's not getting in anytime soon due to him being an assist trophy, and Castlevania already has two reps, so they are the most likely franchise to get Konami a 4th rep, probably the Belmont that is the 3rd most popular behind Richter).

Capcom on the other hand has a huge amount of choices that would make for a very good 4th rep (Street Fighter and Monster Hunter are the top choices), out of all the third party companies, Capcom's library of characters is massive (if we go by just Street Fighter alone).

You have completely forgotten about Goemon, and by the way, Konami owns Yu-Gi-Oh!...

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Fans are the only ones who really care about reps.

I really doubt Nintendo or Sakurai care how many characters one 3rd party company gets over another. Remember all fan made rules can be thrown in the trash.

Characters are going to be picked because they can make DLC money or Nintendo/Sakuria thought they would be neat. Shadow's odds for a hypothetical wave 2 remain the same.

True! (I keep forgetting that Sakurai's been breaking fan-rules for a long time now, only rule that remains is that characters that originated in other media (manga, film and comic books) can't join even if they had a video game series of their own).

Granted if any company deserves 4 reps first, Sega should get that honor (or Capcom) before Konami does!

 

[rat.jpg]

Most people would make Shadow an echo of Sonic but I actually see him with Bayonetta's abilities

 

[Luigifan18]

Most people would make Shadow an echo of Sonic but I actually see him with Bayonetta's abilities

Um... WTF? Care to explain?

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Um... WTF? Care to explain?

Probably because they both use weapons and can slow down time on a whim. Making Shadow a Sonic/Bayonetta moveset hybrid would honestly be pretty interesting.

 

[jamershinobioneobi02]

Was Nintendo taken aback by the backlash of Shadow being an assist or was it just Isaac?

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Was Nintendo taken aback by the backlash of Shadow being an assist or was it just Isaac?

Unfortunately we don’t know. I’ve thought about asking PolarPanda but feel like it wouldn’t mean much. More curious if SEGA or at least the Sonic social media team caught wind of it.

 

[jamershinobioneobi02]

Unfortunately we don’t know. I’ve thought about asking PolarPanda but feel like it wouldn’t mean much. More curious if SEGA or at least the Sonic social media team caught wind of it.

I hope so. I honestly hope Shadow makes it in wave 2

 

[magiciandude]

Mastaklo, who also made a mod of Shadow in Smash Wii U, has already made a mod of Darkspine Sonic in Smash Ultimate.

EDIT: WHAATTT?!?

 

[Sonicsucks23]

Look, Im a huge Shadow fan, and my first post was going to be mostly be centered around how Shadow like all of you have said, deserves a fighter slot. But maybe, Shadow wasn't meant to be in smash peroid, and theres just many reasons why this is the case. I keep hearing Shadow's the most requested echo and one of the most popular sonic characters ever, so what? Shadow is a still cult status, he's not still not as iconic as Tails, Knuckles and Eggman, more or less he's a second banaana in relevance in all sonic fan demand (in all classic Sonic fundamentals) considering he gets rarer face time in covers and main advertisement as Sonic and the classic characters. He gets more extra content compared to the other newbies but he never gets mainstream exposure that allows characters like amy and knuckles to show up every game, cartoon and comic. It's like he's struggling to make a iconic impact when he's a lesser main character than even Amy is.

Also look at his fanbase, it's full of fujoshi, edgy kids and memetic posting. No one probably takes Shadow seriously anymore as a marketable or favorable asset to nostalgia fan pandering. since he's always been kept back from achieving a position that makes him a house hold name like Ken, Zelda, Tails and Mewtwo. The former has something Shadow doesn't, the ability to have quality success in their gaming legacy thus generating better fan reception to now adult seasoned hobbyists preserving their novelty in fan media and fanservice activities. Shadow.......failed to grow momentum properly after his game and didn't get a much acclaim as Knuckles and Tails once did because those two had more set the bar for quality in their gameplay, he started getting divisive when he came back to life, and theres the demographic of fans he over all caters to.....Mostly kids who grow out of him and girls who ship him as this edge marionette of self serving pleasure pairing him with all the guys more than the girls. Sega probably looks at Shadow as the most inconsistent fan favorite to appeal to after Sonic because he keeps getting less relevant as a character and more a fan magnet that can't decide which type of fans he has to satisfy. The fujos? The SA2 fans? The Archie Fans? The Mariadow fans? Sega keeps Shadow on a stricter lease than the the classic 4 because they don't want to risk another bad game experience after shth bombed, and his personality caters to a specific standard in a theme only a modern platform game can handle, Shadow just is too insufferable to push to a commercial way like say Eggman or Tails. Even on pixiv, he's mostly a teenage girl fantasy and no one older or is actually a dude, would draw Shadow constantly to represent a majority of novelty that allows him to be reguarded as a Smash newcomer, on twitter I've seen amy and tails get heavier push from actual sonic purists that came off as visionaries in taking the characters they grew up with and pushing them with all their hearts to be in smash.

Finally Shadow gets divisive backlash and is still in a bad light with people since his game or even his debut. It's almost like Shadow has to start over and reinvient his impact to video gamers by not being a mix of all sorts of wrong angles to explore in a sonic concept. Shadow needs to be worthy of a iconic playable slot. His games are not critical acclaimed, he himself caters to a census of young try hards and fangirls, he has no real serious fan recognigition outside of modern fans that use his character to prove himself amongst imaginative legends like DK or Bayonetta, and He's stuck in hiatus with all the other characters thanks to sonic teams current mostly reaching attempts to appeal to the fans with only the main character and the main villain.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

Yikes, sad to see another Shadow fan turning heel on him and fan base from the deconfirm.

 

[Luigifan18]

Yikes, sad to see another Shadow fan turning heel on him and fan base from the deconfirm.

Another heart claimed by edgyphobia.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

On a lighter note, according to this video Shadow is an S tier for Assist Trophies.

So we can still be proud that he is one of the more useful summons you can get in the game.