The Ultimate Life Form ~ Shadow the Hedgehog for Smash Ultimate! (Maria...)

Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,083
Location
Hugging Sakura
They couldn't have thought that seeing them add an emerald would be that exciting of a reveal. I actually think it would have made more sense if Knuckles was the late reveal and they showed the updated Shadow first.
This right here. The death blow would have been softened so much more if Shadow and Knuckles had been revealed in reverse order. It really doesn't make sense why they'd save the last Brawl AT from Smash 4 (as in, debuted in Brawl and reappeared in Smash 4) for the final Direct alongside many new ATs. I have to think he either was developed late or they seriously thought people would be excited over his "return".

Frankly at this point I wouldn't be surprised (in fact I'd be amused) if we get a Shadow Mii costume this year in response to all the hype he generated.
 

7NATOR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
409
I'm Back. I'm Starting Campaign for Shadow to be in DLC Pack 2 for ultimate, or if that doesn't happen just any Future Smash game

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UX9FZsR6TAp6Vjx2jfz-uWtbCHKZe6_EktaPLlWa2SE/edit?usp=sharing

Here's a Google Slides. It's not the Complete version, but i wanted to Share the Beta Version of these Slides. Includes (Most) of the Whole Moveset and Stuff. I don't know. Read it if you want to. I (think) i created the ULTIMATE, PERFECT MOVESET for Shadow. Maybe one day Sakurai reads it and uses it for Moveset. Either That or some modder takes notes from this...or maybe i have to mod Shadow in myself, whatever it takes

eh
 
Last edited:

OnePerson

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
14
I'm Back. I'm Starting Campaign for Shadow to be in DLC Pack 2 for ultimate, or if that doesn't happen just any Future Smash game

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UX9FZsR6TAp6Vjx2jfz-uWtbCHKZe6_EktaPLlWa2SE/edit?usp=sharing

Here's a Google Slides. It's not the Complete version, but i wanted to Share the Beta Version of these Slides. Includes (Most) of the Whole Moveset and Stuff. I don't know. Read it if you want to. I (think) i created the ULTIMATE, PERFECT MOVESET for Shadow. Maybe one day Sakurai reads it and uses it for Moveset. Either That or some modder takes notes from this...or maybe i have to mod Shadow in myself, whatever it takes

eh
ooohhh, I've also made a moveset! but is quite simple and it's just a bunch of drawings haha. Here is the link! (just because I want to share)

https://www.instagram.com/chan.karlos/

It is a simple moveset since I tried to mix the Sonic's moveset (in Smash) with Shadow's moves (from the Sonic games), this is because I don't know about "fighting" games nor their balance, because of the same I also checked other fighters moves.
I really need him in Smash, I don't care if unique or echo, but with teleportation and chaos spear at least!

I totally support the idea of asking him for a fighter pass 2!!
 

7NATOR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
409
ooohhh, I've also made a moveset! but is quite simple and it's just a bunch of drawings haha. Here is the link! (just because I want to share)

https://www.instagram.com/chan.karlos/

It is a simple moveset since I tried to mix the Sonic's moveset (in Smash) with Shadow's moves (from the Sonic games), this is because I don't know about "fighting" games nor their balance, because of the same I also checked other fighters moves.
I really need him in Smash, I don't care if unique or echo, but with teleportation and chaos spear at least!

I totally support the idea of asking him for a fighter pass 2!!
DAMN! Those Drawings are actually nice, and the moveset, While still having Similarities to Sonic, has that Shadow flair to it. Dare i say it captures both Shadow's Similarities and his Differences to Sonic very well.

I would say this is the best time to show support for Shadow. Even if he doesn't get into DLC Pack 2, there is always the next game, and if we show our support now, the want for him becomes more noticeable. that's all
 

OnePerson

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
14
DAMN! Those Drawings are actually nice, and the moveset, While still having Similarities to Sonic, has that Shadow flair to it. Dare i say it captures both Shadow's Similarities and his Differences to Sonic very well.

I would say this is the best time to show support for Shadow. Even if he doesn't get into DLC Pack 2, there is always the next game, and if we show our support now, the want for him becomes more noticeable. that's all
Thank you so much! and I totally agree! From now on the inclusion of Shadow in the Super Smash Bros franchise is a MUST, we need to repeat what happened with Ridley and K. Rool in this game (any fighter pass) and continue pushing for the next one.
If not, damn I would love the Snake scenario to repeat with Lizuka asking for Shadow's inclusion hahahaha

(edit: I just uploaded 3 more drawings! I think those would be the last ones!)
 
Last edited:

TerminatorLOL

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
142
ooohhh, I've also made a moveset! but is quite simple and it's just a bunch of drawings haha. Here is the link! (just because I want to share)

https://www.instagram.com/chan.karlos/

It is a simple moveset since I tried to mix the Sonic's moveset (in Smash) with Shadow's moves (from the Sonic games), this is because I don't know about "fighting" games nor their balance, because of the same I also checked other fighters moves.
I really need him in Smash, I don't care if unique or echo, but with teleportation and chaos spear at least!

I totally support the idea of asking him for a fighter pass 2!!
Wow, I love those victory screen ideas, you really nailed his personality there.

All the references in that move list is great too.
 

Sonicsucks23

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
3
Yikes, sad to see another Shadow fan turning heel on him and fan base from the deconfirm.
Heya, I'm not turning on Shadow, but look here, when has Sega put Shadow on a pedestal recently without treating him like some extra sonic skin or a acquaintance to non cannon games? Sega is on desperate legs trying to keep Sonic's reputation Shadow free in his most successful modern titles and pretty much hit gold with Mania, when Shadow has more quality in gameplay and being a Monsterously plot relevant and spontaneously co featured with the main 4 and Eggman, let me know.
It's so nice to meet you! I really wanted and expected Shadow in this installment, honestly, I didn't "care" about him before because Sonic was just a guest in this franchise.
However, Sonic and Shadow have been a staple in this series, this is the third time in a row that they are present in Super Smash Bros., and we've got Ken and two Belmonts, I really think that by now he deserves to join the fight and accompany Sonic!
I was thinking about sending a letter to Lizuka, Sega and/or Nintendo, but I don't know :c (didn't find anything that could help me with that) so, for now I'm just going to show my support out loud.
Also, I did this drawing also, I'd like to share it (?)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BqxuMlXgN_4/
I consider that mostly arguable, Shadow being a staple as assist trophy isn't pushing his chance the same it doesn't put Tails, Knuckles and Silver in being playable. I don't see the Japanese consider Shadow of any high reguard on twitter, 2ch, and pixiv. It's always Sonic. Shadow's main thing is, and most infamous reason(IMO) being in as a assist trophy since Sonic's first debut, is because Iizuka created Shadow and probably got Sakurai team to use Shadow over other characters as a request. If it were any other sega director, I would garantee it would have been someone like Eggman or Tails because there more famous and they got more positive adult fan reception in japan that isn't a female demographic.
Shadow's in an odd spot indeed. Sega blatantly cares about him.
If they cared about him as of now, they release Shth2 already and fix his gameplay or make him show up in every fundamental piece of sonic media with Sonic, Eggman and Tails(with Amy and Knux in most products) as a mandatory part in sonic/eggman only plots and side stories that focus on him, they wouldn't hold him back as a star player presence that has small impact as an occasional boss fight(generations), minor antagonist(boom), unimportant side quest(Forces), or just optional Sonic skin that always amounts to sonic + in sonic side games(Riders, Free Riders, Runners, etc). Sega promotes Amy Rose better than Shadow now a days. A supporting + love interest character over the so called arch rival of the sonic series.

I'm sorry, Sega may not hate Shadow, but I won't believe they look up to him and respect him on Sonic's level or maybe Classic Sonic.
 
Last edited:

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
25,488
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
If they cared about him as of now, they release Shth2 already and fix his gameplay or make him show up in every fundamental piece of sonic media with Sonic, Eggman and Tails(with Amy and Knux in most products) as a mandatory part in sonic/eggman only plots and side stories that focus on him, they wouldn't hold him back as a star player presence that has small impact as an occasional boss fight(generations), minor antagonist(boom), unimportant side quest(Forces), or just optional Sonic skin that always amounts to sonic + in sonic side games(Riders, Free Riders, Runners, etc). Sega promotes Amy Rose better than Shadow now a days. A supporting + love interest character over the so called arch rival of the sonic series.

I'm sorry, Sega may not hate Shadow, but I won't believe they look up to him and respect him on Sonic's level or maybe Classic Sonic.
Why would they release a sequel to a game that did awful and people did not like that version of Shadow. They absolutely care about Shadow. The people behind the Boom series doesn't, mind you, but Sega does. All his roles in the normal Sonic games have been way better after his own game. He was significantly better written in 06(despite that game being a mess), had perfectly reasonable roles in the other series.

Shadow isn't really just meant to be a rival anyway. That's actually Knuckles' job. It's why Sonic and Knuckles fight in a lot of media, since that's their relationship. Shadow is more meant to do his own thing, being an anti-hero(or was it anti-villain). He's not heavily tied to Sonic outside of gameplay in many cases. Amy hasn't really much improved beyond 06 and Unleashed where she wasn't nothing more than a crazy Sonic fangirl. She actually did something beyond that. ...She doesn't get much otherwise, and her Boom version definitely doesn't count. Stuff like the Advance and Rush games came before 06 and Unleashed, so they don't count in this case. Her last appearance that didn't make her just lolSonicPleaseMarryMe was Unleashed. If she even has much of a role, which is pretty little even in Colors and the other games. Boom, yes, but that's the only modern game that makes her interesting at all. She's honestly one of the most one-note characters that Sega created, and much of her Character Development gets ignored. Shadow at least had the excuse of letting go of the past, and still got the most character development among any actual game as is with his own. His development was spread across 4 multiple games as is(Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, Battle, 06), which is something that doesn't happen for the rest. He however has nothing more to develop, so throwing him in games isn't really a big thing. And he was effectively a skin for Sonic in most games to begin with gameplay-wise, so nothing really changed in Forces as is. They didn't even downgrade him, they used him as normal. Also, the fact he is one of the few to even get a Bonus DLC among characters definitely show they care about him. That doesn't mean they want him to still be gun-toting. That's an image that some dislike of him, enough that it affected Shadow's game's own sales. It may fit his character to a degree, and honestly isn't even off from how edgy he was presented as in Adventure 2, but it wasn't a popular decision regardless of it not... changing anything about his character. Hell, the argument against guns doesn't even make much sense. "Cause it's edgy" doesn't really make sense when he was always meant to be edgy anyway. He couldn't harm the Black Arms easily, or, for another potential reason, he was weakened physically by Black Shadow who did have some small control over Shadow's body. Even then, he grew up in a military base. He can clearly use them just fine due to what is likely basic training. He lost his memories, so there's no qualm in using them. Really, the best reason he should avoid them is due to Maria being killed by one. An actual legitimate in-character reason. He stops using them after he regains his memories and focuses on his Chaos abilities and natural power against non-Black Arms. It's likely the Maria thing in-universe that he sees no need for 'em. It'd actually be the best way to go about it and acknowledge the importance of his past without being limited by it.
 

TerminatorLOL

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
142
Heya, I'm not turning on Shadow, but look here, when has Sega put Shadow on a pedestal recently without treating him like some extra sonic skin or a acquaintance to non cannon games?
Sonic Forces. He got his own story campaign that explains the origin of the main villain, who made clones of him with other classic Sonic villains to feed nostalgia.

Also not sure why a game being non cannon devalues a characters appearance.

Sega is on desperate legs trying to keep Sonic's reputation Shadow free in his most successful modern titles
If that was true the character would have just disappeared by now. Why would they keep letting him come back in games like Forces, Team Racing, and Smash if they think he's bad for Sonic's rep.
 

OnePerson

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
14
I hate to say this but it is easier to understand it in this way... Knuckles and Shadow work very similar to Piccolo and Vegeta respectively. Both of them were meant to be Sonic's rival, just that Knuckles came first and then joined Sonic, while Shadow came way after but he doesn't like to be too much time with him.
Sega or Sonic Team.. or Lizuka *cough cough* care about Shadow precisely because of that additional content, because, if anything, they could've just left Shadow without any gameplay on Forces, but they gave him one, and doesn't matter if he is similar to Sonic, he was meant to be in that way, he is a Hedgehog. Also, everytime we return to the classic formula everyone are clones of Sonic but climbs, but flies, etc. Shadow is the easier fit for new content in the modern era, yes, but they could've just not made that content, period.

What else...
-Shadow is edgy, he doesn't work being showed too much and alongside the main characters, there are always characters like this and people love these.
-Shadow The Hedgehog 2? ... the first one was a mess in terms of reputation, and even if it were well received, the first game actually finished anything about Shadow past that they could exploit, then in Sonic Battle Shadow seemed to have overcome the past and in 06 he left his hatred.
-Amy... yes, she evolved, now she is more like a friend with a love interest instead of a crazy fan... that's an awesome character development <3
-If anything, I think that the character that has the worst part is Tails, he is a coward... I mean, he can be but, he already defeated Eggman and Chaos and sometimes he said things like he wanted to be by himself and not depend on Sonic, I mean, what the hell man? It is like he was the only one who did not developed but went backwards.

Finally, Sega or Sonic Team or Lizuka has this weird thing about being radical with their decisions, I mean, let's see:
- Shadow and 06 were bad, let's forget about platforms and side characters.
- Unleashed was cool! let's use the boost formula other three times, only Sonic without any additional character so we play safe.
- Generations was cool, let's use Classic Sonic again with no apparent reason.


Also, HONESTLY, I believe Sega doesn't even respect Sonic... Nintendo seems to care more about giving time to their franchises (except for Starfox)
But, that's what I think :c
 

TerminatorLOL

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
142
If they cared about him as of now, they release Shth2 already and fix his gameplay or make him show up in every fundamental piece of sonic media with Sonic, Eggman and Tails(with Amy and Knux in most products) as a mandatory part in sonic/eggman only plots and side stories that focus on him, they wouldn't hold him back as a star player presence that has small impact as an occasional boss fight(generations), minor antagonist(boom), unimportant side quest(Forces), or just optional Sonic skin that always amounts to sonic + in sonic side games(Riders, Free Riders, Runners, etc). Sega promotes Amy Rose better than Shadow now a days. A supporting + love interest character over the so called arch rival of the sonic series.
Shadow the Hedgehog will get a sequel as soon as Tails Sky Patrol or Knuckles Chaotix do

So besides Sonic Mania (the classic styled fan game that Sega contracted) what games are Tails, Amy, and Knuckles showing up in that pushing them more then Shadow? (I'm not going to argue Eggman since he usually the main villain and gets multiple boss fights every game.)

Generations:They only appeared in cut scenes or acted as minor gimmicks to a bones level, Where Shadow got a boss fight paying tribute to his first appearance/2nd fight in SA2.
Unleashed: Tails and Amy show up in some cut scenes but don't really do anything.
Colors: Tails shows up in some cut scenes but doesn't really do anything.
Lost World : Same as colors.
Boom: Main cast of a non-canon cartoon with a cheap tie-in game. I don't particularly like Shadow's portrayal on this show, but I should note Shadow beats up the whole main cast on that show by himself with little effort and he has Eggman fanboying over him. He may not be a regular, but boy did they pay him fan service.
Forces: They all just stand around and talk...thats pretty much it, (other then Sliver getting beat up and Tails cowering to a boss he's fought before). While Shadow is a playable character who's story gives you backstory to the games main villain (other wise you would think Eggman made Infinite in a test tube or somthing).

I don't see how they are being pushed more the Shadow. Honestly people only relatively recently stopped hating the idea of seeing anyone but Sonic in a Sonic game.
I'm sorry, Sega may not hate Shadow, but I won't believe they look up to him and respect him on Sonic's level or maybe Classic Sonic.
I would find it odd if Sega didn't favor the main character of their mascot series more then any that series's side characters.
 
Last edited:

Sonicsucks23

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
3
Why would they release a sequel to a game that did awful and people did not like that version of Shadow.
Because that would show they still commit to selling Shadow despite his controversial panned game? He's popular so it would make sense to give him another chance but with better direction and improved game mechanics instead of gimmicks that are barely explored.
They absolutely care about Shadow.
They apparently don't since they barely show him in sega shop merchandise as much as the classic four, and you can't say they care about him when you argue the flaws he brings as a character with his game series.
The people behind the Boom series doesn't, mind you, but Sega does. All his roles in the normal Sonic games have been way better after his own game. He was significantly better written in 06(despite that game being a mess), had perfectly reasonable roles in the other series.
All his roles could have been played by any character, because they all suck and serve no real impactful point to helping Sonic himself fix things in the story. Shadow is basically a filler role sidekick.
Shadow isn't really just meant to be a rival anyway. That's actually Knuckles' job. It's why Sonic and Knuckles fight in a lot of media, since that's their relationship. Shadow is more meant to do his own thing, being an anti-hero(or was it anti-villain).
No.
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
25,488
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Because that would show they still commit to selling Shadow despite his controversial panned game? He's popular so it would make sense to give him another chance but with better direction and improved game mechanics instead of gimmicks that are barely explored.
The game never really worked nor is the style popular. Him showing up in other games is normal does just fine.

They apparently don't since they barely show him in sega shop merchandise as much as the classic four, and you can't say they care about him when you argue the flaws he brings as a character with his game series.
A character having flaws is not a lack of caring. It just means, that, gasp, they have flaws.

All his roles could have been played by any character, because they all suck and serve no real impactful point to helping Sonic himself fix things in the story. Shadow is basically a filler role sidekick.
Yeah, no. That's not even remotely true. Nobody else had Chaos Control powers in 06 like that. Nobody else could remotely fill that story. Nor in Heroes, as his purpose is to be a blatant parallel to Team Sonic. There was literally zero other choices. The only character that could fill those roles realistically was someone made in the same way Shadow was. So basically just another version of Shadow. He's pretty irreplacable in his own game(as it'd be the exact same character, just with a different name. His game only remotely works due to his exact backstory and characterization. It may not be popular as a game(and that's understandable), but it fully works with his character overall). Really, the only time he could have been removed is maybe the Mario & Sonic Olympic games(where he doesn't matter cause they're no story), the Storybook games(where only his character model is used but doesn't actually play the role as Shadow in any way). Also, "sidekick" is pretty inaccurate since most of the time he's a main character in the story itself. I'm trying to think of a sidekick role, and nothing comes up. Nor is he filler. It's almost like he doesn't nor ever had that kind of role. You'll need better examples. Never mind he's had huge story impacts and we all know it. I don't know why you're trying to downplay his importance to the series. He's just not a straight hero, which the specific 4 are put together as a group. He's part of his own character section. Amy alone has done more filler role sidekick at best(Sonic Adventure 2 is very notable in that. Though that's all I can think of where she is fairly easy to replace. In fact, she is in Sonic X by Chris, more than once. She actually doesn't contribute much story-wise in many cases).

Even in his smallest roles he's no sidekick. Sonic Riders doesn't even give him a role. Filler? Yeah, most are, actually. Sidekick? Not even close. So you even know what a sidekick is? Cause Shadow doesn't come close to it. Rouge and Omega, on the other hand, are his sidekicks and have been for a while now. He and Eggman pretty much ran Adventure 2's story. Also, do you know what filler means? It means absolutely zero role in the actual story proper. He contributes to the main story extremely often. He's a main character and has been in a lot of his appearances.

tl;dr. No.
Congrats on the rebuttal. But yeah, keep trying to say false stuff. It won't make you right. He is not a rival in the core series. Knuckles still does that way more often than Shadow, who actually has a far bigger role to play instead. There are times where they somewhat act as it, but ignoring actual stuff to completely bash the character still doesn't make you right. He doesn't really have a rivalry with Sonic as is. Adventure 2 seemed like it, and there's a tiny snippet of it during Heroes, at best. But a lot of those were due to him not really establishing his full personality and him not knowing who he fully is yet. In Adventure 2 he couldn't remember everything, and was designed to be fairly edgy right away. The game mechanics put him against Sonic more than once just like the rest of the gameplay clones. In-story, "rivals" isn't all that accurate. It was main hero VS two main villains. Knuckles, Tails, and Rouge were all sidekicks to their respective teams. Heroes had him lose all his memories, so all he could do is think of what he was told. The story's writing honestly was really strange. Any of the Sports games aren't really canon by any means, so those don't count for the actual story proper. Sonic Rivals is really the closest where that's true... and everybody was meant to be one. But it's a weird story and it's more of a Racing game than anything else. Just like Riders, R, and all-Stars Team Racing. It didn't even make sense with its story, as it contradicted Sonic Rush, a more proper game. And then you have 06 where Shadow and Silver completely run the main story while Sonic is just doing stuff on his own and outside of the final chapter, contributes little to nothing to the true main plot. He's actually more filler than Shadow and Silver in that regard(there are no filler characters in 06, to note. They all actually play some role. You could argue maybe Tails and Knuckles at best. Those weren't abilities nobody else could perform in comparison to the key stuff the others do. Rouge deals with a very specific artifact, Omega actually has to sit around for years with a key item in him(which no other heroic robot was alive and could do so), Amy is the reason Sonic stays alive, as she both helps Silver understand the issue, but also helps Elise get over her anxieties, which helps out Sonic even more. She also has a key ability with invisibility that nobody else could replace in combination with the above. Blaze has a lot of future-related stuff to deal with. Tails? Uh... he can fly, I guess? Knuckles does the same thing anyone who could glide can do. Of course the two original sidekicks do a simple but filler-like job at times). It should be noted that Tails and Knuckles have pretty much zero story impact, while Sonic has the least amount, but some story impact. The other 6 playable characters have a far bigger impact.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
771
Location
Valley Of Repose
NNID
GigaKaiju

Something I found and wanted to share on the subject of "edgyness" in the Sonic series.
I remember seeing that video a couple of days. (FilmToaster also has amazing videos showing kaiju movies and from my name alone, you can guess what I think of them, hehe) Nice discussion over the games and the upcoming Sonic movie. Boi. That is still a thing to out for~

Inb4 potential photoshops of a Shadow design with Sonic's realistic design revealed in the future...



:bowser:.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,012
Location
Chicago, Illinois
3DS FC
1375-7346-9605
NNID
Takamaru64
Switch FC
SW-8277-6509-2593
Guys, people are doing this right now
https://twitter.com/hashtag/AssistAlliance?src=hash
We could show our presence, maybe.
I already twitted something https://twitter.com/Karschan/status/1086760582760542208
Yes, this is a new movement we are doing for all Assist Trophies.

So it's best to join in on it while it's still booming. We also have an official discord to join if some of you Shadow fans like. One of our biggest ambassadors is a Shadow fan too who owns a big Twitter page.
 

OnePerson

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
14
Yes, this is a new movement we are doing for all Assist Trophies.

So it's best to join in on it while it's still booming. We also have an official discord to join if some of you Shadow fans like. One of our biggest ambassadors is a Shadow fan too who owns a big Twitter page.
The discord that you are mentioning is the one that appears in your "signature"?
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,083
Location
Hugging Sakura
Thinking about it further, I think I have a new understanding of why Shadow wasn't chosen for Smash.

Why was Richter chosen? Because Simon was taking so many of his moves already Sakurai decided to bring the latter in to complete the set.

Why was Ken chosen? Because he's got a legacy as the fighting game clone and has arguably the easiest base to differentiate himself from Ryu.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Shadow probably didn't get in because he wasn't "necessary" in Sakurai's eyes.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
962
Location
The elegant battlefield.
Thinking about it further, I think I have a new understanding of why Shadow wasn't chosen for Smash.

Why was Richter chosen? Because Simon was taking so many of his moves already Sakurai decided to bring the latter in to complete the set.

Why was Ken chosen? Because he's got a legacy as the fighting game clone and has arguably the easiest base to differentiate himself from Ryu.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Shadow probably didn't get in because he wasn't "necessary" in Sakurai's eyes.
Hmm, I could see that. Though the same could be said as whether two assist trophies is necessary for Sonic. Sonic representation is rather weird this time around I must admit. Infinite, a recent character from a mostly panned Sonic game is a primary spirit, but Tails is only support? I find that incredibly bizarre. While Shadow was unfortunate in the playable department, I must admit, the spirit section smiled upon him, with a base form for him, and an enhanced version in Super Shadow.
 

OnePerson

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
14
Thinking about it further, I think I have a new understanding of why Shadow wasn't chosen for Smash.

Why was Richter chosen? Because Simon was taking so many of his moves already Sakurai decided to bring the latter in to complete the set.

Why was Ken chosen? Because he's got a legacy as the fighting game clone and has arguably the easiest base to differentiate himself from Ryu.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Shadow probably didn't get in because he wasn't "necessary" in Sakurai's eyes.
I get that honestly, but, as you said, that are Sakurai's eyes (or maybe Sega's?), we need to change that perception, a lot of people assumed Shadow was already in and it was a matter of when was he going to be announced. Even non-fans and haters, isn't it weird?

Sonic is an icon and Shadow was a memorable rival since he was similar to Sonic (even being from the same species), I mean, Shadow can and was an echo of him.

Even if people want to throw their **** to the franchise and say that Street Fighter and Castlevania are just better, it is just unfair that the newcomer and the guy who came through DLC had a partner immediately and Sonic being on three installments in a row along the Shadow Assist Trophy hasnt' got the same treatment.
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
25,488
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Hmm, I could see that. Though the same could be said as whether two assist trophies is necessary for Sonic. Sonic representation is rather weird this time around I must admit. Infinite, a recent character from a mostly panned Sonic game is a primary spirit, but Tails is only support? I find that incredibly bizarre. While Shadow was unfortunate in the playable department, I must admit, the spirit section smiled upon him, with a base form for him, and an enhanced version in Super Shadow.
Tails is usually support in the games compared to a primary playable character these days. It's a smaller role, but it does fit his general in-series role very very well. Generally, it's only Sonic, Shadow, and sometimes Silver and Blaze that tend to be considered "main" characters these days. It's usually reserved for those who can go Super when it comes to the series' ideal lore. Speaking of, are Blaze and Silver primary or support spirits?
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
962
Location
The elegant battlefield.
Tails is usually support in the games compared to a primary playable character these days. It's a smaller role, but it does fit his general in-series role very very well. Generally, it's only Sonic, Shadow, and sometimes Silver and Blaze that tend to be considered "main" characters these days. It's usually reserved for those who can go Super when it comes to the series' ideal lore. Speaking of, are Blaze and Silver primary or support spirits?
That'd be true, but Mania has Tails, Knuckles, and even the until then MIA Mighty and Ray use super forms. Even if we look at Mania as a separate universe, Knuckles himself has been largely getting similar, if not lesser roles in Sonic games to Tails, yet he was a primary spirit.

Though on Silver and Blaze, I think they are also support spirits if I recall. Heck, a Chao is a primary spirit before some of these guys. Where's the justification in that? Those guys are almost the definition of support in Sonic (IE, Cream and Cheese).
I miss Chao Garden. :crying:
 
Last edited:

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
25,488
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
That'd be true, but Mania has Tails, Knuckles, and even the until then MIA Mighty and Ray use super forms. Even if we look at Mania as a separate universe, Knuckles himself has been largely getting similar, if not lesser roles in Sonic games to Tails, yet he was a primary spirit.

Though on Silver and Blaze, I think they are also support spirits if I recall. Heck, a Chao is a primary spirit before some of these guys. Where's the justification in that? Those guys are almost the definition of support in Sonic (IE, Cream and Cheese).
I miss Chao Garden. :crying:
Well, Chao did have their own mini-games too. Doesn't seem like there's a very specific way to do it. From what I'm guessing is some seems like their roles have better support abilities, while others work better as primary spirits. It seems based upon their abilities, not their roles in the series alone. Like, Tails' most notable thing is helping people fly. This sounds great for a support ability. I have yet to fully understand how the spirits work, so I'm not the best to talk about this. That said, Silver floats a lot, so that could work well too for support. My guess is that those that are primary don't have unique abilities that work best as support in the same way as others. Blaze giving fire power boots makes sense too, actually.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
962
Location
The elegant battlefield.
Well, Chao did have their own mini-games too. Doesn't seem like there's a very specific way to do it. From what I'm guessing is some seems like their roles have better support abilities, while others work better as primary spirits. It seems based upon their abilities, not their roles in the series alone. Like, Tails' most notable thing is helping people fly. This sounds great for a support ability. I have yet to fully understand how the spirits work, so I'm not the best to talk about this. That said, Silver floats a lot, so that could work well too for support. My guess is that those that are primary don't have unique abilities that work best as support in the same way as others. Blaze giving fire power boots makes sense too, actually.
I collected basically all the spirits (minus the Let's Go spirits, until they're made available without the need of purchasing the games, I'll always be missing two spirits), and I still don't quite understand them myself friend. :laugh:

Though I could see Silver and Blaze I guess though, it's just Tails is more of a personal thing. I definitely do see your point on his support role, I fondly remember his ability to lift Sonic to higher places when playing as the duo. In fact, I think he'd make a fitting assist trophy, where when you open him, he'll follow you around until you're launched off stage. If you run out of jumps trying to make it back to the stage, Tails will kick in and help carry you back. Though while Tails certainly is useful for that, I usually just negated the need for him helping Sonic altogether by just playing as him. I just personally remember playing as him in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, and recently, Sonic Mania more. I suppose that's why it's harder for me to see such an iconic member to the Sonic series as just a support character. I mean, this is a character that got 3 spin-off games, Tails' Adventure, Tails' Sky Patrol, and... erm, Tails and the Music Maker... OK let's just forget about that last one actually. :laugh:

Thinking about the Sonic characters in that sense, maybe that's what's holding Shadow back. For example, I myself see him as the perfect Sonic Echo. He started out in SA2 as a direct clone of Sonic, playing very similarly to him minus a few upgrades. However, since then, he's gained more in the chaos abilities department that'd separate him from a simple Sonic echo, and I'm sure many here would love to see him in that form for Smash. Perhaps Shadow was skipped because the developers didn't want to offend one side of his fans versus the other, as they assumed some might be upset to see him as an echo, others might feel he'd work better as an echo. That said, that'd be a rather poor reason to exclude a character, any fan would be happy to see said character regardless how they get in.
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
25,488
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I collected basically all the spirits (minus the Let's Go spirits, until they're made available without the need of purchasing the games, I'll always be missing two spirits), and I still don't quite understand them myself friend. :laugh:

Though I could see Silver and Blaze I guess though, it's just Tails is more of a personal thing. I definitely do see your point on his support role, I fondly remember his ability to lift Sonic to higher places when playing as the duo. In fact, I think he'd make a fitting assist trophy, where when you open him, he'll follow you around until you're launched off stage. If you run out of jumps trying to make it back to the stage, Tails will kick in and help carry you back. Though while Tails certainly is useful for that, I usually just negated the need for him helping Sonic altogether by just playing as him. I just personally remember playing as him in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, and recently, Sonic Mania more. I suppose that's why it's harder for me to see such an iconic member to the Sonic series as just a support character. I mean, this is a character that got 3 spin-off games, Tails' Adventure, Tails' Sky Patrol, and... erm, Tails and the Music Maker... OK let's just forget about that last one actually. :laugh:

Thinking about the Sonic characters in that sense, maybe that's what's holding Shadow back. For example, I myself see him as the perfect Sonic Echo. He started out in SA2 as a direct clone of Sonic, playing very similarly to him minus a few upgrades. However, since then, he's gained more in the chaos abilities department that'd separate him from a simple Sonic echo, and I'm sure many here would love to see him in that form for Smash. Perhaps Shadow was skipped because the developers didn't want to offend one side of his fans versus the other, as they assumed some might be upset to see him as an echo, others might feel he'd work better as an echo. That said, that'd be a rather poor reason to exclude a character, any fan would be happy to see said character regardless how they get in.
I think that's the thing. Shadow needs more effort than Sakurai had time for. But not putting him in the game alone is even worse, as people were quite disappointed with Isaac being gone in 4. So it was better than nothing, if you will.

And yeah, I get what you mean by Tails only being support. Though I'll be honest, I'd just be glad to have one of my favorites characters in. Despite my avatar no longer showing it, I'd love Brian in as some kind of support that boosts magical attacks(or maybe he could boost fire, with his three known partners in the games boosting the other 3 elements. Kiliac the Pirate for Water, Princess Flora the Warrior for Earth, Leonardo the Wizard for Wind. Brian himself is more like a Druid by design).
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
962
Location
The elegant battlefield.
I think that's the thing. Shadow needs more effort than Sakurai had time for. But not putting him in the game alone is even worse, as people were quite disappointed with Isaac being gone in 4. So it was better than nothing, if you will.

And yeah, I get what you mean by Tails only being support. Though I'll be honest, I'd just be glad to have one of my favorites characters in. Despite my avatar no longer showing it, I'd love Brian in as some kind of support that boosts magical attacks(or maybe he could boost fire, with his three known partners in the games boosting the other 3 elements. Kiliac the Pirate for Water, Princess Flora the Warrior for Earth, Leonardo the Wizard for Wind. Brian himself is more like a Druid by design).
I getcha, seeing so many series in Smash is one of it's biggest draws, so seeing a character in some form is still better than nothing.
 

TerminatorLOL

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
142
Shadow Supporters: 159
#
  • 15365ion
  • 7NATOR
  • 92MilesPrower
A
  • Aeon Lupin
  • Akg0001
  • alemerltoucanet
  • amazonevan19
  • AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea
  • AreJay25
  • Arkaizer
  • Arthur97
  • AustarusIV
B
  • BandanaWaddleDee
  • Barbasol
  • BluePikmin11
  • BravadoMan_13
C
  • Camc10
  • ChocolatGelgato
  • Chrono.
  • Cool Guy 36
  • CrossDispatcher
  • CrusherMania1592
D
  • Dark2020
  • DarkFoxTeam
  • Darklabo
  • DaUsername
  • dangeraaron10
  • Dee Dude
  • Diem
  • Dixie Kong
  • dkkrang95
  • Dragoncharystary
E
  • Erotic&Heretic
F
  • FalconFire93
  • FancySmash
  • Fastblade5035
  • FooltheFlames
G
  • gebi
  • GreekGamer
  • Geoffrey Druyts
  • Giga Kaiju
  • GlitchWarrior
  • Girnee
  • GM_3826
  • GoldenYuiitusin
  • grizby2
H
  • hermes
  • Houndstooth
  • hposter
  • hydrokyogre
I
  • IanTheGamer
  • Insomneko
  • Isaac: Venus Adept
K
  • Keeshu
  • Klimax
  • KMDP
  • kodoru__
  • kylexv
J
  • jamershinobioneobi02
  • JesseMcCloud
L
  • LeeSmash4Me
  • Legendary Spirit Tamer
  • Llort A. Ton
  • Luigifan18
M
  • Madwario
  • magiciandude
  • Maikou
  • MainJPW
  • majorasmaskfan
  • Masonomace
  • Mastermiine
  • Mikegamer0608
  • Mikeline
  • Mogu
  • MonkeyDLenny
  • Mr. Trumo
  • murdokdracul
  • mynameisBlade
N
  • Nauzgo
  • NessAtc.
  • NIckynickreviews
  • Nikster31
  • Nin*Rose
  • No Sympathy
  • NotTabuu
  • nuclearneo577
O
  • OhMyBanana54
  • OnePerson
P
  • PhilosophicAnimal
  • Pinkanator
  • P.Kat
  • Playat
  • Primal Cookie
  • psb123
  • Putuk
Q
  • QcSlayer

R
  • RandomAce
  • RC-3197
S
  • Saiko18
  • SchAlternate
  • scoobymcsnack
  • Scottfrankd
  • Sean Wheeler
  • SEGAGameBoy
  • SegaNintendoUbisoft
  • ShadowTheHedgehogZ
  • shinhed-echi
  • Shiny Porygon
  • ShortcutButton
  • Ashen Jedi
  • Sirfishe
  • slambros
  • SmashChu
  • smashingDoug
  • Smashing Ramen
  • Smashoperatingbuddy123
  • smash puffle
  • Sølid
  • SonicMario
  • SpaceCadetKeon
  • spoilerowl
  • StarLight42
  • StormC
  • Super Flygon
  • SuperNintendoKid
T
  • Takasmash
  • TCT~Phantom
  • T-Donor66
  • Tempest
  • TerminatorLOL
  • TheFVguy
  • THE 6r
  • The King of Skulls
  • The Legendary Beast
  • thirsty-pocket
  • ThoughtfulWanderer
  • Tikivoy
  • TMNTSSB4
  • Tornado_Man
  • Toucan_Man
  • TRA| Kay
  • Travix Man
  • Troykv
  • TyrantLizardKing
U
  • UberMadman
V
  • valkiriforce
  • VexTheHex
  • vVv Rapture
W
  • Wonks Wonks
X
  • xAquaCrystal
  • Xenorange
  • xNaz
  • XTRAordinaryZG
Y
  • YoYoFantaFanta
Z
  • Zabadoo
  • ZagarTulip
  • zeldasmash
  • Zoljinx_
  • ZTurtle
 

DarkFoxTeam

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
348
Location
Washington D.C.
So I was playing Elite Smash earlier as Sonic and as I was playing I heard the crowd cheer out "Go, Go, Sonic!" as they would usually if you're in the lead. That had me thinking. If Shadow was in the game the audience would have likely cheered out "All Hail Shadow! All Hail Shadow!" I know that doesn't contribute anything, but man that's such a missed opportunity. I would've loved to have heard that if Shadow had been added. Oh well.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,083
Location
Hugging Sakura
I thought up a Classic Mode route for our boy, based on the Pure Hero route of his game.
Stage 1: vs. :ultsonic:, Fourside
Song: Escape from the City
Stage 2: vs Giant :ultridley: with :ultsonic: CPU Ally, Omega Fourside
Song: Vs. Ridley (Brawl)
Stage 3: :ultdarksamus:Horde Battle with :ultincineroar: colour 8 CPU Ally, Gerudo Valley
Song: Death Mountain
Stage 4: vs. Giant :ultroy2: with :ultfox: colour 7 CPU Ally, New Pork City
Song: Porky's Theme
Stage 5: :ultsquirtle:Horde Battle with :ultzelda: colour 3 CPU Ally, Lylat Cruise
Song: The Battle at the Summit!
Stage 6: vs.:ultsnake: with :ultsonic: CPU Ally, Dracula's Castle
Song: MGS4~Theme of Love
BOSS: Dracula with :ultsonic: CPU Ally
Song: Live and Learn
 
Last edited:

KoopaSaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
375
So are you guys going to keep this thread going? It’s been afk for awhile and as a stern Isaac supporter I just wanted to chime in to encourage you guys. I too really want shadow to get in the fight where he rightfully belongs and will fight for him too. Don’t give up guys.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,083
Location
Hugging Sakura
So are you guys going to keep this thread going? It’s been afk for awhile and as a stern Isaac supporter I just wanted to chime in to encourage you guys. I too really want shadow to get in the fight where he rightfully belongs and will fight for him too. Don’t give up guys.
I appreciate your words of confidence. Unfortunately it seems we've run out of things to talk about for the moment, but hopefully people will keep coming around and sharing their support.
 

hposter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
152
Location
Flatzone
So are you guys going to keep this thread going? It’s been afk for awhile and as a stern Isaac supporter I just wanted to chime in to encourage you guys. I too really want shadow to get in the fight where he rightfully belongs and will fight for him too. Don’t give up guys.
I appreciate your words of confidence. Unfortunately it seems we've run out of things to talk about for the moment, but hopefully people will keep coming around and sharing their support.
Exactly. We don't really have any news to be excited for. I say we've just been hiding in the SHADOWS for now.
We've lost the battle, but not the war.
 
Top