The true cause of tripping

[Firebert]

"Dash this way, at this angle or risk random punishment!" - Yeah, that'd be even stupider than it just being random.

Then again, it IS Sakurai we're talking about.

 

[Spellman]

The true cause of tripping is acid. O.K., there. I said it.

 

[redeyedol]

The true cause of tripping is acid. O.K., there. I said it.

I was thinkin MUSHROOM would've been a better answer.

 

[Firebert]

The true cause of tripping is acid. O.K., there. I said it.

No, we are not talking about THAT kind of Brawl, we're talking about Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[Marie_54]

"Dash this way, at this angle or risk random punishment!" - Yeah, that'd be even stupider than it just being random.

Tripping is an abomination in the first place. This theory can't be called a fluke or real without proper testing and it still could be random just that not tilting at the right angle could higher the percentage of it happening and atleast to me, when i have tripped it is right after tapping to dash so it might be connected.

 

[Spellman]

No, we are not talking about THAT kind of Brawl, we're talking about Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Anyways, there are definately some surfaces that increase your odds of tripping, but all in all, there be tripping no matter what and it is out of our control. Admittedly, it would have been nice if the stage builder came with some no slip surfaces, but sadly, it doesn't, so I'm going to have to say that most of these "tripping is my fault" theories don't hold a lot of ground. At the very most, maybe some of them change your odds, but there is little way to prove that and it should've been mentioned in the strategy guide if avoiding tripping was an intended element.

 

[Yuna]

Tripping is an abomination in the first place. This theory can't be called a fluke or real without proper testing and it still could be random just that not tilting at the right angle could higher the percentage of it happening and atleast to me, when i have tripped it is right after tapping to dash so it might be connected.

Of course you've tripped only right after starting a dash. Because you can only trip right after smashing the stick left or right (Dash/Fsmash/F-tilt).

 

[Dantarion]

This gives Wiimote a less chance of tripping by far....

Anyone want to try tripping with the Wiimote on Final destination?

 

[Senshuu]

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Someone once said in some other elaborate tripping thread that they tripped a couple of times with the Wiimote, I THINK. According to the theories in that thread it should have been less likely with the Wiimote too, but it still happens. Hmm.

I hope I'm remembering correctly. Lack of motion sensitivity might be a factor in that case but I really don't know.

 

[Qinopio]

To be quite honest, Yuna is being an *** as usual.

I find this topic interesting. I may test later on if I get the chance, but in either case I am following this thread.

 

[Yuna]

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Someone once said in some other elaborate tripping thread that they tripped a couple of times with the Wiimote, I THINK. According to the theories in that thread it should have been less likely with the Wiimote too, but it still happens. Hmm.

I hope I'm remembering correctly. Lack of motion sensitivity might be a factor in that case but I really don't know.

But why would they design a game where the chances of tripping are higher when you're using a control scheme other than a Wiimote, though? It's not really logical.

 

[TheFifthMan]

But why would they design a game where the chances of tripping are higher when you're using a control scheme other than a Wiimote, though? It's not really logical.

Perhaps to level the playing field. It's easier to play with the GCN or Classic controller. With a Gamecube or Classic controller, you have three ways to jump - flick the control stick, or use the jump buttons. You have two ways to smash: C-sticked and standard smashes. You have a grab button and two shield buttons. It's a way of handicapping the traditional controller user against a Wiimote, I suppose.

But if the running surface is tilted, then it totally screws the Wiimote user over if that's how tripping was implemented. Oh well.

 

[~N9NE~]

My mum always told me I kept tripping because I didn't do my laces.

 

[derf]

my extremely non-extensive testing yields no significant difference between the wiimote (d-pad) and the controller with all dashes done at just shy of 45 degrees below horizontal. you do however trip a hell of a lot less (about 1 in a 100ish) if you only begin your runs from a standstill position. at the other end of the spectrum, starting your runs from a slide makes you trip like a mofo.

for inquiring minds, i was weeg on fd doing this

 

[phanna]

Every time I see a thread like this, where ignorance is spreading like wildfire, Yuna always beats me to the extinguishing.

But yeah, the OP is patently and blatently false.

This is the only statement that can currently be said with absolute certainty for tripping:

For the instances in Brawl where an action can result in tripping, whether or not it actually does is randomly determined by the game.

For those that haven't seen my premise:

YouTube: Tripping is Random

I do get the "feeling," however, that tripping is more likely, the longer it's been since you dashed. Just a hunch, based on tripping more often from the initial dash of a game than a series of foxtrots later on, or from getting up after pratfalling more often than "echo sliding" (running turnaround). It's either something along these lines, or just different chances for different causes.

I do have plans to perform statistical analysis of tripping, but that's for after I finish the last two challenges. I'll be focusing on the following causes:

• Initial dash of a match
• Fox-trot dashes
• "Echo Sliding" (what the Mario's trip from in my video)
• Forward smash?
• Dash grab?

And since threads like this also keep cropping up, my controls are that I always work on a flat, non-custom stage of non-ice terrain, and that I tap and hold the control stick in the direction, parallel with the flat ground.

By the way, Nana can trip without Popo, and vice-versa. Similar to the Mario video, but I thought I'd point it out.

So far, I haven't yet seen two people trip simultaneously. I have tripped twice in a row myself, but I haven't seen anyone trip more than that, consecutively.

 

[Yuna]

Every time I see a thread like this, where ignorance is spreading like wildfire, Yuna always beats me to the extinguishing.

I try to do it as fast as I can to stop the flow of misinformation. Unfortunately, people are desperately searching for an answer to the question "Why causes tripping?" that is something other "Is it random!", so they'll believe anything and desperately cling to any theory people make up, no matter how illogical they are.

 

[kooky]

phanna, in ur video the third mario trips first and then the second trips, then the third trips again. it MIGHT BE (don't kill me, i personally think tripping is random, but i don't want to say there aren't any chances that it's not totally random), that, how you stated in the post above, no two people trip simultaneously. I remember a video where 3 sheiks/zeldas transformed (simultaneously, with the wavebird method), BUT the transformations DID NOT finish the same time. The first character slot finished first, then the second slot, then the third. MAYBE the game can't handle two people tripping the same time too, and therefore, if 2 people would trip simultaneously, only one will trip. This could mean the third slot trips first, because the game handles the third slot with the biggest disadvantage (like in the transformation video). Now why did then the second mario trip the second time and not the third one? Because the third one was still in some getting up animation. I know, this sounds silly, but phanna, could you test tripping with 3 marios and one wavebird a bit more? Maybe get a video where the first slot mario trips und not the third, or 2 marios trip exactly the same time. This would finally statisfy all the people who think tripping is NOT random.

PS: sorry if my english is bad, i hope you can understand what i want to say.

EDIT: I just see that you were the guy with the transition/transform video^^
Ok, it would be really cool if you would test the randomness of tripping a bit more, i really hope you do it.

 

[Trizzy]

But why would they design a game where the chances of tripping are higher when you're using a control scheme other than a Wiimote, though? It's not really logical.

This game was designed by the Japanese. Watch anime and come back here talking about them being logical.

Most people already know that their trips are recorded if you've made yourself a profile name. They're listed as prat falls for those that don't know. There's a huge difference in the number of prat falls between my brother and I. I have about 30, while he's sitting on about 80. We both have a ton of gametime logged in and we both vary our character selection. If tripping were truly random, I believe that our numbers would end up being much closer.

I'm not gonna test this, because even if this is proven to be true it's not gonna change the way the game is played. Tripping is still going to be at least 0.01% random and it may or may not happen while you're trying to run away from Ike's F-smash. Tripping ghey, but it's here, I've dealt with it because it all evens out in the end. The number of times your trip and get blasted for it is probably close to the number of times you trip and avoid being hit because of it or the number of times it ends up working in your favor somehow. Or the number of times it's of little or no consequence.

Maybe this is true, maybe it's not. If it is, it's just an easter egg.

 

[LoVer]

Then why don't people test it out? I can't at the moment, surely at least a few of you have Brawl at home? Also, these "theories" about Tripping are becoming annoying since pretty much everyone and their mothers' got one and most of them are wild and illogical... and later (or already) proven completely bogus. The majority of people making up theories haven't even read up on Tripping properly since Hitaku's test debunked the majority of them (even though they popped up after hgis tests)

This one is illogical but apparently it's possible. I say it's just a fluke. Because it's still illogical (in terms of why the heck Sakurai would implement tripping like this).

I agree with you about tripping theories. Is there not some way for the smash community to get the final word on this? Can someone look at the code or ask a reliable source?

 

[LoVer]

This game was designed by the Japanese. Watch anime and come back here talking about them being logical.

Most people already know that their trips are recorded if you've made yourself a profile name. They're listed as prat falls for those that don't know. There's a huge difference in the number of prat falls between my brother and I. I have about 30, while he's sitting on about 80. We both have a ton of gametime logged in and we both vary our character selection. If tripping were truly random, I believe that our numbers would end up being much closer.

I'm not gonna test this, because even if this is proven to be true it's not gonna change the way the game is played. Tripping is still going to be at least 0.01% random and it may or may not happen while you're trying to run away from Ike's F-smash. Tripping ghey, but it's here, I've dealt with it because it all evens out in the end. The number of times your trip and get blasted for it is probably close to the number of times you trip and avoid being hit because of it or the number of times it ends up working in your favor somehow. Or the number of times it's of little or no consequence.

Maybe this is true, maybe it's not. If it is, it's just an easter egg.

Thoughtful post. I agree with you that there must be some mechanic behind tripping, even if it still works on probabilities. The fact that prat falls are recorded as well as the fact that they vary significantly between players is a sign that there is indeed some way to influence the chance of a trip.

I also agree with you that tripping is lame, but ultimately not a game destroying feature as it does all even out in the end.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Yeah when im IC's i trip about 10 times a match, and those are 2 stock matches, yeat my friend falls once and sometimes none, it pisses me off because it throws me off. Whenever im doing chaingrabs with nana she might trip and i get KO'ed right there, im pretty sure some characters trip more than others. more han 60% of the time, i trip on my first dash.

 

[AznRyoga]

If this is true, then explain how the vid of 3 marios being controlled by one wavebird yielded random tripping results.

If what almightypancake is saying is true and that every time you don't smash correctly you increase the chance of tripping by .1%. Tripping becomes a random factor once you've messed up on a smash. While we have no way to determine whether the vid of the 3 mario was done what would be the "correct way" of dashing, the player dashing the wrong way could explain the reason why a random mario was tripping

 

[AAP]

this certainly is an interesting theory, unfortunately it seems to have been disproved as being entirely true. But it hasn't been proven entirely irrelevant.

It does bring up an interesting concept of reducing the possibility of your trips. however with as many ppl as there are out there testing the physics in general of this game , and many probably focusing directly on tripping causes. It would seem that the consensus is that tripping is random.

so accepting tripping as random and proposing that in general you have an X % chance of tripping on a dash on a flat surface:

would it not also be possible that the parallel to surface theory applies in the opposite sense which might explain some of the results. that instead of thinking that tilting parallel to the surface reduces the chances of tripping below X, perhaps not tilting parallel to surface increases the chances above X. Also this increased possibility may be correlated to tilt angle vs surface angle accuracy.

if this is the case then testing should yield an increased trip rate on slanted surfaces vs flat surfaces for a perfect straight sideways dash, has anybody observed this?

just a theory, but even at that it seems to be essentially random and unless some method is found that drastically reduces the odds i can't see anybody really trying to integrate it into their gameplay for what might be a negligible difference. On a more positive note, if anything is found that might reduce the % then it is a step in the right direction towards a solution that might be worthwhile.

 

[Professor Smash Attack]

I play more casually than most here, so tripping doesn't bother me so much. But I think people saying "stop being so desperate to make tripping not random, you GULLIBLE FOOLS." are missing the point. We're just trying to discover little tidbits about the game engine, and I find it incredibly interesting even though I don't mind trips(except when they screw up my target tests!).

To understand Brawl more fully, even if it yields few immediately recognizable tactical applications, is interesting. It's fun.

Of course, some people do just want to PWN sum n00bz, but I think that there's a signifigant portion of the Smash community that wants to dive into the little intricacies of Smash just for the sake of KNOWING.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

I play more casually than most here, so tripping doesn't bother me so much. But I think people saying "stop being so desperate to make tripping not random, you GULLIBLE FOOLS." are missing the point. We're just trying to discover little tidbits about the game engine, and I find it incredibly interesting even though I don't mind trips(except when they screw up my target tests!).

To understand Brawl more fully, even if it yields few immediately recognizable tactical applications, is interesting. It's fun.

Of course, some people do just want to PWN sum n00bz, but I think that there's a signifigant portion of the Smash community that wants to dive into the little intricacies of Smash just for the sake of KNOWING.

Learning, fun, and smash; in the same sentance?!?
You make a good point.

However, there are so many theories on Smashboards, that the sake of knowledge and fun are not always applied. Some try to act like a smart*** and spam, *cough* Almightygoat *cough*. Some try at a joke-thread, or something like that. This is taking plausable information that may become useful. Tripping may be random, but there also may be a specific cause for it, and with that, we could use that to our advantage. Once major testing has been applied, we will know for sure.
In my opinion, it is random, but this surely brings a good and in-depth alternative.

 

[Intercept]

Wrong. People start matches by tripping. Are you saying their threshold is zero?

 

[Professor Smash Attack]

Wrong. People start matches by tripping. Are you saying their threshold is zero?

See, just outright calling foul isn't right. The OP didn't say they fully understood the mechanic. However, to reiterate, the chances of tripping at the start of the match would just be VERY LOW, not at zero. Also, we don't know all the factors that might lead into activating trippig.

I still think that thinking up theories, testing them, and gleaming what you can. It's a forum, traditionally for sharing ideas. At the very least, the idea is interesting, and the possibility that some of it is true exists.

 

[Shoop70]

I'm not sure about the threshold idea, but I do believe tilting incorrectly is a cause of Tripping...the only time I've tripped on Sonic, I notice I'm not really hitting directly at an angle...of course, I'm not paying attention to how many times I do this XD. Still, nice post.

EDIT: Also...I just think it's funny Sakurai didn't have a Dojo update for something like this when he had updates for...Screen...Controls...just saying

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

You may have to change the title, this is not yet proven to be the cause of tripping. Maybe change it to "Alternative to the cause of tripping" or "Debunking, the cause of tripping". The title make your information misleading, for it has not been entirely proven true.

Edit: Could also explain why you're getting a lot of "YOU'RE WRONG!!1!!!!ONE!" posts. : )

 

[Professor Smash Attack]

Well, it's about really DISCOVERING the cause of tripping, if one exists. Doing some extensive testing on theories. I suppose the title can sound definitive, but that's not what I gleamed from it.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

Well, it's about really DISCOVERING the cause of tripping, if one exists. Doing some extensive testing on theories. I suppose the title can sound definitive, but that's not what I gleamed from it.

Oh, Gotcha. This is not a discorvery, more of an alternative and theory-based.
If you want, you can change it to "Possible theories to tripping".

 

[regorris]

<rant>
So... what I'm actually hearing is this. In order to be a backroomer, you need to talk the party line, squash opposition whenever you see it. And, lets not forget, discourage anyone but the elite from bringing new, controversial ideas to the game.
<\rant>

Psychological tests show that unless humans talk about reward/punishment trends, we are actually worse at distinguishing these trends than pigeons. This is because we are a species based on language. The only way we are every going to learn anything about this game is to talk about it.

I appreciate the contributors who posted videos. Some would say that the Mario wavebird video is pretty good proof that there is some random component to the tripping, I say that it is an excellent control group. Now we need an experimental group, same factors: 3 Marios, Final Dest. Now we select for factors that we believe can effect the game.

On that note it means nothing to just start a thread like this one, we need some SCIENCE!

Someone who is unbiased should start a thread addressing the tripping issue, and cull all posts which are not of a scientific nature, following strict, posted guidelines.

I don't have the clout here to do that, so I'm looking to Gimpyfish, Hugs, SamuraiPanda, MookieRah, and the big names for guidance and support in this critical issue.

Lastly, I need to apologize for my typical incendiary tone at the beginning of this post. I feel it needed to be said, I hope the message is not overwritten by the tone.

 

[Tsuteto]

It's an interesting theory, but I would have to say false as well. One: There is the wiimote, which doesn't use the control stick. Two: I've had it happened twice within five seconds, and I highly doubt I was going "different" to the ground when running.

To support the theory, the threshold that is talked about could be set at random from the beginning at certain percentages or something, which would explain the tripping in the very beginning. And "perpendicular" is the wrong term. Perpendicular is like the lines in the + sign. That would basically mean you should only jump and duck to avoid tripping... which I guess works XD. The term is parallel, which is like the = sign.

 

[Greenpoe]

I support the theory. If you read and understand everything posted so far, for each point against the theory there are several to refute it...but what about crawling? Do you have to crawl at a perfect angle of the down and forward direction? Has anyone ever tripped going into a crawl?

Also, I've played Brawl for over 70 hours, and I have never tripped from doing an f-smash or f-tilt.

 

[AAP]

Although the title to this thread might be misleading i think it has generated some good discussion that might bring us closer to the true cause of tripping,

i agree with regorris on a lot of what he said,

i'd be curious to see the mario test done on a slanted surface done with typical straight to the side dashing and surface tilt compensation dashing, to see if the tripping frequency is affected. amongst other things. But i would hope that there would be some correlations to be made between slope/tilt and tripping considering it was the observations of ILOVESMASHBROS on just this topic that started this thread in the first place.

 

[-Linko-]

How long until the 1337 H4XX0RZ decode the game and seek for the algorithm that causes tripping?

Before you flame, I must tell you bunch of flamethrowers, that that way (thanx to 1337 h4xx0rz) the competitive Pokémon community found about EVs and IVs. When people first heard of them, they were: "ZOMFG ur ******, ther's NO WAH pokémon training can be so complex (...)"

Nowadays, competitive Pokémon training is all about EVs and IVs.

 

[Tsuteto]

EVs and IVs? Pokemon term? Holy crap I'm free from that world because I honestly do NOT recognize those terms whatsoever. Whoo-hoo!

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

How strange.

This is how tripping occured at E For All. If you are holding the joy stick diagonally, you fall.

This theory is fairly plausible.

 

[-Linko-]

EVs and IVs? Pokemon term? Holy crap I'm free from that world because I honestly do NOT recognize those terms whatsoever. Whoo-hoo!

I guess the average pokémon pro won't recognice WD, L-cancel, WB, etc...

But that's not the point: the point is that sometimes j a p developers put some random weirdo useless algorithms into their games, just for the fock of it. And only 1337 h4xx0rz can find about them.

 

[Konuk]

Wow this is Interesting I have to try it my self