Pre-Release The Transition: New Mechanics, Re-works, Balance Changes Thread

[MysticKnives]

if you look at ness's character trailer on the official site, you'll see that when he uses his Up special, a small arrow symbol appears next to him that seems to point in the direction that ness will fly if he hits himself with Pk thunders current angle. presumably lucas will have this as well but i dont think weve actually seen it. not sure if this is a nerf or a buff because while it makes pk thunder easier to use, a good ness player doesnt really need it, while it makes the move slightly easier for the opponent to read.

I noticed this too. At the same time, I think his PK Thunder might be a little faster than before.

 

[Octorockandroll]

if you look at ness's character trailer on the official site, you'll see that when he uses his Up special, a small arrow symbol appears next to him that seems to point in the direction that ness will fly if he hits himself with Pk thunders current angle. presumably lucas will have this as well but i dont think weve actually seen it. not sure if this is a nerf or a buff because while it makes pk thunder easier to use, a good ness player doesnt really need it, while it makes the move slightly easier for the opponent to read.

I never had much trouble predicting the direction even back when I only played casually

 

[Wyatt Davis]

Wavedashing and wavelanding is included too. According to Zero and Armada it's not "full" wavedashing, and it seems much weaker, but still present.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

how do you show icons for buffs, nerfs or changes?

Ctrl+C from the thread.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Wavedashing and wavelanding is included too. According to Zero and Armada it's not "full" wavedashing, and it seems much weaker, but still present.

I heard the wavelanding but not wavedashing. Can you link me to where this was mentioned?

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Thread updated! Thanks for everyone who pointed things out for characters like Ness, Pac-Man, and Yoshi!

Can somebody tell me if Taunt Cancels are in the game? Because I can't think of any other explanation for what pink kirby did here (timestamped)

That's a results screen of Villager and Pac-Man.
Wrong timestamp.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Thread updated! Thanks for everyone who pointed things out for characters like Ness, Pac-Man, and Yoshi!

That's a results screen of Villager and Pac-Man.
Wrong timestamp.

Yeah that was a four hour video yesterday. Here's the new timestamp.

 

[Iridium]

Did you note that Marth now speaks in English here? I don't think you checked my other notes earlier. :/

 

[Acrete]

There appears to be greater knockback and less hit-stun. I’m unsure how I feel about it. It seems combos may be harder to pull off if this is the case.

In fact it would become a match of air game 80% of the time. Getting a hit and then chasing them down for another.

 

[Octorockandroll]

There appears to be greater knockback and less hit-stun. I’m unsure how I feel about it. It seems combos may be harder to pull off if this is the case.

In fact it would become a match of air game 80% of the time. Getting a hit and then chasing them down for another.

Isnt that basically what Brawl was? I really hope thats not the case then.

 

[Whababa]

Pichu doesnt cry during moves and Meta Knight now has a Galacta Knight alt.

 

[BALENTS]

im gonna go ahead and have to say that Marth's new dancing blade is not a buff, i heard that its pace isn't controllable anymore and always comes out at the same speed? If this is so, i think this could be Neutral, or a slight Nerf. Being able to time my dancing blade hits is really nice and sometimes they dont expect it to come out if you do it somewhat slower than usual; an instant dancing blade i feel would still be good, but would remove the ability to have each slash hit exactly when you want it.

 

[Acrete]

Isnt that basically what Brawl was? I really hope thats not the case then.

You know, I’m really not sure. I’ve watched a few different vids and it seems inconclusive. The 1v1 is the only time I notice it a bit. Could be the increased damage and pacing messing with my perception.

 

[Octorockandroll]

You know, I’m really not sure. I’ve watched a few different vids and it seems inconclusive. The 1v1 is the only time I notice it a bit. Could be the increased damage and pacing messing with my perception.

Yeah to be honest it doesnt really look that way to me. The launching is certainly discouraging followups which sucks but idk about the hitstun. Actually if anything I think there may be a bit more hitstun.

 

[Rhus]

There's the weird mechanic where you can't run past shield anymore for cross ups.

There's talk floating around that some of the Nintendo reps claimed it was a bug, however, which seems pretty likely.

 

[xzx]

According to Smash wiki, Pac-Man's dash attack now has 4 hits instead of 3 and his trampoline always acts as a red one for opponents: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Pac-Man_(SSBU)

And just to be clear: Most of the other changes I wrote about Pac-Man earlier may or may not be true, since I haven't actually tested him. Those are just observations. So take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Samus' bombs explode on contact again, like they did in Melee (0:35 in case timestamp doesn't work).

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Isnt that basically what Brawl was? I really hope thats not the case then.

Brawl had Melee hitstun, with 2 key differences:
1, airdodging had no freefall,
and 2, you could airdodge after 13 frames (less than 1/4 of a second).
Additionally, there's only significantly faster launch rates on moves that wouldn't seem to combo well anyways, which would more likely indicate a lower hitstun cap.

4 had hitstun cancelling after that long, anyways. It explains why sometimes, after I've sustained knockback as Luigi, and I try to use green missile, it starts up, but I'm still moving into the blast zone. I often lose stocks during Green Missile startup because of that.

 

[Blackrider213]

Popo and Nana have a new down smash that was shown in a Nintendo Treehouse gameplay. Instead of both spinning around, Popo strikes one side and Nana strikes the other almost simultaneously.

 

[Acrete]

This video covers a lot of new changes. I think it could be stickied in the thread.


https://youtu.be/PBDZ_w0Aa40

 

[Wyatt Davis]

Link can shoot an energy projectile out of his F smash if he's at 0 percent now.

 

[Blackrider213]

This video covers a lot of new changes. I think it could be stickied in the thread.


https://youtu.be/PBDZ_w0Aa40

That video has an error regarding Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers up B does put them into free fall. The reason why I think the video thinks it doesn't is because Nana was grounded when her portion of the up B ended, whereas Popo was still in the air. It could be possible that there might not be free fall in that kind of situation though.

Forgot to mention that there is something called throw or grab cancelling now. Apparently it happened between Zero and MK Leo during their matchup. I think this is what an example of what it looks like.

 

[Rhus]

Fox can still shine stall, but only the first activation slows his fall. Subsequent activations do not stall his descent.

 

[William5000000]

Why is there no mention of the Star KOs/Screen KOs toggle?! Seriously, the top KO randomness is just so annoying! :/

If the Stage Hazards toggle was added, then there should be no reason not to add the Star KOs/Screen KOs toggle too!

 

[Iridium]

Apparently, using Giant Punch no longer leaves DK helpless, so that is a notable buff.

Also, Kirby can use Inhale on a lot more projectiles, notably all of Samus's projectiles. He can get healed if he swallows certain projectiles too.

As for overall changes, I heard tether recoveries cannot be done after an airdodge, and the getup is no longer faster than after a regular up special, weakening the usefulness of tether recoveries.

For Link, the first hit on his forward aerial has been significantly nerfed, however, it connects into the powerful second hit way easier than before.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is there any confirmation that fighters still receive a grab immunity period after being thrown? This could be important, especially with the Ice Climbers being back.

 

[Iridium]

Is there any confirmation that fighters still receive a grab immunity period after being thrown? This could be important, especially with the Ice Climbers being back.

Yes, as characters glow yellow during a throw and grab, indicating when that they cannot be grabbed again until the glowing is over. The length is about the same as in SSB4, so wobbling is impossible for the Ice Climbers to perform. Also, Nana simply cheers on Popo when he gets a grab, so that would prevent them from doing it anyway.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yes, as characters glow yellow during a throw and grab, indicating when that they cannot be grabbed again until the glowing is over. The length is about the same as in SSB4, so wobbling is impossible for the Ice Climbers to perform. Also, Nana simply cheers on Popo when he gets a grab, so that would prevent them from doing it anyway.

I was kind of wondering what that glow was all about. Thank you for the information.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Any idea on whether shield cancelling Mac's neutral B retains the charge or not?

 

[Clefargle]

Hey guys, I didn’t see this listed for snake. Maybe it’s already been discussed. In the video above, at ~0:29, I noticed snake dashing forward on the ground while dropping a cooked grenade. Is this new snake tech? Or was it already a thing in Braw? I remember sheild dropping grenades and regrabbing them to cook and toss them. But this seems like a new thing imo.

 

[Ridel]

Hey guys, I didn’t see this listed for snake. Maybe it’s already been discussed. In the video above, at ~0:29, I noticed snake dashing forward on the ground while dropping a cooked grenade. Is this new snake tech? Or was it already a thing in Braw? I remember sheild dropping grenades and regrabbing them to cook and toss them. But this seems like a new thing imo.

Brawl thing.

 

[Octorockandroll]

You missed that Pichu's dtilt trips the opponent. I almost did too, since the Zard he does that to is barsly in frame during the trailer.

 

[Iridium]

's d-air is now a powerful spike against opponents. 's f-smash has a new animations, where he hits his opponent with his fist instead of his elbow. It looks underhand, but you should check the trailer. 's momentum is halted after using Confusion. 's Substitute is faster, and the same goes for 's Double Team.

 

[Acrete]

Has anyone else noticed the difference in knockback from the Rage Japanese demo to the E3 version?? It’s as if they have addressed it already.

https://youtu.be/thkqn2-iWZU

 

[Katy Parry]

Okay, so have we talked about people not being able to run through each other anymore? A lot of people are clamoring this is a bug

But we’re less than 6 months from release....I can see a bug of this stature being in maybe a year into development, but not 3. That’s just me I guess.

It seems more like any other fighter, traditional or not, you simply can’t run through an other character model. The physics behind that don’t make sense. So it seems to be removed, to favor competition.
This makes stage control even more important. If your back is to ledge, and they shield, you can’t slip past them anymore. You have to actually take a *risk* and jump.

With how the game is moving more towards punishing and competitive balance, that seems like something, to me, he liked addressed. In fact, the game would have to have new code for the characters stage collision boxes to detect other characters “WALL B”

Anybody feel me?

 

[Acrete]

Okay, so have we talked about people not being able to run through each other anymore? A lot of people are clamoring this is a bug

But we’re less than 6 months from release....I can see a bug of this stature being in maybe a year into development, but not 3. That’s just me I guess.

It seems more like any other fighter, traditional or not, you simply can’t run through an other character model. The physics behind that don’t make sense. So it seems to be removed, to favor competition.
This makes stage control even more important. If your back is to ledge, and they shield, you can’t slip past them anymore. You have to actually take a *risk* and jump.

With how the game is moving more towards punishing and competitive balance, that seems like something, to me, he liked addressed. In fact, the game would have to have new code for the characters stage collision boxes to detect other characters “WALL B”

Anybody feel me?

That very well could be the case. Brutal if that’s the case but I don’t mind personally. If anything it will widen the gap between skilled players and scrubs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Where did we learn about Daisy and Peach's wedding alts or Roy speaking English? Wario also has a new Ftilt and Wolf has a new Nair as seen in their character trailers. Ike's nair also seemingly has more range

This video covers a lot of new changes. I think it could be stickied in the thread.


https://youtu.be/PBDZ_w0Aa40

This video says Mario's Fireball is multihit right? DK's clearly winding up Headbutt so that's blatantly not the case

Also didn't Snake's down throw force people to dodge roll to the closest edge of the stage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9fSqSgrjxI
Pikachu clearly goes to the left after getting down throwed but he's on the right half of the stage

 

[Metal B]

One element of Perfect Shielding, what many people miss, is that the hitstun is dynamic based on the power of the parried move.
If you parry a weak hit, the opponent only gets a few frames added, so that you can only punish with something of equal speed. But if you parry a strong hit, you get enough frames to answer with something as strong.

Here is the explanation in one of the Treehouse videos: https://youtu.be/qFvucxGGy0A?t=1m34s .
So if you parry a jab, you only have time to answer with a jab yourself or something of equal speed. This could mean, that hitting an shield with a weak attack has much less consequences. While parrying a very strong attack, can give you a lot of benefits, with the risk of miss the timing and get hit. Could be a great risk and reward mechanic.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One element of Perfect Shielding, what many people miss, is that the recovery frames are dynamic.
If you parry a weak hit, the opponent only gets a few frames added, so that you can only punish with something of equal speed. But if you parry a strong hit, you get enough frames to answer with something as strong.

Here is the explanation in one of the Treehouse videos: https://youtu.be/qFvucxGGy0A?t=1m34s .
So if you parry a jab, you only have time to answer with a jab yourself or something of equal speed. This could mean, that hitting an shield with a weak attack has much less consequences. While parrying a very strong attack, can give you a lot of benefits, with the risk of miss the timing and get hit. Could be a great risk and reward mechanic.

**** like that is why I'm excited for high level Ridley play cause imagine if the parry lets you just down b sweetspot.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Okay, so have we talked about people not being able to run through each other anymore? A lot of people are clamoring this is a bug

But we’re less than 6 months from release....I can see a bug of this stature being in maybe a year into development, but not 3. That’s just me I guess.

It seems more like any other fighter, traditional or not, you simply can’t run through an other character model. The physics behind that don’t make sense. So it seems to be removed, to favor competition.
This makes stage control even more important. If your back is to ledge, and they shield, you can’t slip past them anymore. You have to actually take a *risk* and jump.

With how the game is moving more towards punishing and competitive balance, that seems like something, to me, he liked addressed. In fact, the game would have to have new code for the characters stage collision boxes to detect other characters “WALL B”

Anybody feel me?

Nah, the top players who actually had 1 on 1 time with Nintendo reps corroborate the bug claim. Besides, outside of Nintendo there are companies that ship games with bugs that straight up crash the game so I'm not surprised a demo half a year from release has something like that.