Pre-Release The Transition: New Mechanics, Re-works, Balance Changes Thread

[TMNTSSB4]

Pit (Dark Pit aswell I suppose) seems to be stronger and has new animations for his side smash (plus all of his smash attacks seem to actually connect), nair, and jab infinite

 

[Blank1]

Sheik's new final smash: https://youtu.be/MQRcFvnaJ00?t=1m55s

 

[Khao]

Something to consider is that these "Power animations" are not actually an inherent part of any move whatsoever, but just an extra effect that's added to potential kill moves. It's the same **** that happened in Sm4sh with those red lightning-looking effect, it can happen with any move. And in the case of Ultimate, only happens on 1v1s.

What I'm saying is, no, Falcon Punch, Super Jump Punch and other specific moves were not updated to include a power animation. It's just something the game does with any potential kill move on 1v1s. If you watch the tournament, you'll see this slow-mo effect with the fancy background show up when all kinds of different moves connect.

EDIT:

Then again, I guess they could've made it so that those moves force that effect to happen regardless if they're kill moves or not, but I wouldn't say it's a given.

 

[RamLee]

Villager's grab, the net catching catches an item like how the neutral B grab item works. But if the net catches a food, villager will consume it.

 

[Khao]

Also, I did notice that Toon Link seems to have a new FSmash.

https://youtu.be/62uBiZfw9w0?t=5s

And fun fact, if my memory's right, the thing's directly taken from The Wind Waker. It's the final attack in a four-hit combo if you're holding left.

 

[IndigoSSB]

If you're updating this some things for Falco
-Lasers firerate is faster
-Finisher for jab is different
-spot dodge dab has been changed

 

[Watch Out!]

They gave Wario a new FTilt as well.

 

[Bent 00]

I heard that Ganondorf's Side Special, Flame Choke, no longer puts him into Special Fall (helpless), but it can now be mashed out of.

I found video where it looks like a grabbed Ridley manages to mash out...

https://youtu.be/fMipP89AtFI?t=90

...but I haven't found any proof that Flame Choke doesn't put 'Dorf into Special Fall anymore.

Can anyone here confirm or deny that change? Has 'Dorf's recovery improved in other ways? It was terrible in Smash 4.

 

[Katy Parry]

Zeldas Phantom can be charged into a delayed projectile, reinforcing her zone/wall mage archetype. Since she can cast it early and leave it behind, she doesn’t have to worry about it being reflected back at her, as she can act instantly, cast Nayru’s love and reflect the reflected phantom back at the opponent

 

[DNeon]

Zeldas Phantom can be charged into a non reflectable delayed projectile, reinforcing her zone/wall mage archetype.

No evidence it's not reflectable, that was simply mistimed.

 

[Eisen]

"floatier than sm4sh, slow, caters to casuals"

You wot m8.

In general, characters have much less landing lag and cooldown.

Also, can someone confirm that Shulk's nair moves much faster? I'm like 95% sure it's almost twice as fast.

 

[NastCF]

Has anybody else noticed the weird jump acceleration? Look at Mario here as he jumps:

And Villager here:

They jump really fast and stop immediately at the peak of the jump, kinda similar to the new knockback physics. From what I've seen this affects every character, and I'm not sure what to think of it. I wonder why they changed it.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

One thing about Link Bill Trintin states in a Gamexpain interview is that apparently, Link can still shoot one arrow. However, he can actually pick up the arrow and if it's picked up, that's when Link can shoot two arrows.

I'm not sure if this is correct though, but that seems to be how he worded it.

Zelda's down B also has 4 phases to it

 

[DaUsername]

Pac-Man's grab is now much faster.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit is largely unchanged damage wise.
https://smashboards.com/threads/e3-demo-damage-chart.455489/

Taking freshness/staleness into account it’s 99% identical to Smash 4. Actually, it confirms that staleness is the same and that FFA damage is baseline.

Back to Pit, his Uair does 2% more and his Dair does 1% less if you land a spike. Which is weird because the other hitboxes do more damage than the spike now...

His rapid jab animations are significantly faster and seems to be reliable, and his Dash Attack is new. It’s a pretty average kill move, but he doesn’t dash forwards nearly as far. Same damage as his old one.

Dabuz also claims that his Fair van combo into itself, but then again he claimed that Pit did a lot more damage overall so I’d take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Bottlecapn]

Awesomeperson159 Bowser Jr.'s tongue attack is D-tilt, not F-tilt. It makes sense for it to pick up items because you can press A while crouching to pick up items. So no, that isn't new.

 

[Blank1]

During the treehouse intermission, there was a match between a Pit and Ness.

I noticed PK Flash was MUCH faster and had less end lag.

Down smash *might* have less end lag but it might be very minimal

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/273186589?t=03h50m49s

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Something to consider is that these "Power animations" are not actually an inherent part of any move whatsoever, but just an extra effect that's added to potential kill moves. It's the same **** that happened in Sm4sh with those red lightning-looking effect, it can happen with any move. And in the case of Ultimate, only happens on 1v1s.

What I'm saying is, no, Falcon Punch, Super Jump Punch and other specific moves were not updated to include a power animation. It's just something the game does with any potential kill move on 1v1s. If you watch the tournament, you'll see this slow-mo effect with the fancy background show up when all kinds of different moves connect.

EDIT:

Then again, I guess they could've made it so that those moves force that effect to happen regardless if they're kill moves or not, but I wouldn't say it's a given.

Only last stock in 1v1s does that for every move, however it would say "GAME!" at the end of it if that were the case.

Since they only show it on moves that are a) deadly edgeguards or KO moves on the final stock in gameplay or b) moves that deal extreme knockback (including KO punch, which had the animation in 4) in the trailers, I'd assume that's unique in those moves always happening.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

"floatier than sm4sh, slow, caters to casuals"

You wot m8.

In general, characters have much less landing lag and cooldown.

Also, can someone confirm that Shulk's nair moves much faster? I'm like 95% sure it's almost twice as fast.

I said nothing about being slow, you're misinterpreting what I said. I'll change it so nobody makes that mistake, I just said it looked a tiny bit floatier than 4.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

Updated it so you can see buffs and nerfs.

 

[xzx]

I think rage starts to kick in at 120%.

Anyway, besides from visuals and such, here is what I've been noticing about the changes of Pac-Man:

> Pac-Man runs faster. (Very noticable.)
> Grab is shorter, but also comes out faster (I think the hand is a grabbox now) and ends faster. Whole beam is a grabbox.
> Bonus Fruit now charges much much faster. Bell seems to give A LOT more stun now.
> Pac-Man sadly can't cancel his specials into each other anymore. (I saw Abadango trying to do this (twice) in the invitational but he nearly SD:d and wasn't able to pull it off.) However I'm not entirely sure about this.
> Nair is bigger.
> Bair has reduced landing lag. (Would assume that it now has around 15-18 frames of landing lag as opposed to Smash 4's 22 frames of landing lag.)
> Dair now sends opponents away from Pac-Man instead of upwards. Seems to able to autocancel from a short hop. Move executes faster.
> D-tilt can be used in a quicker succession, meaning it has less endlag.
> Up-tilt is now an overhead uppercut/punch.
> Hydrant's water can be blocked and even "destroyed".
> Up-B's third bounce seems to actually KO now. (However I'm not sure about this.)
> Side-B has slightly less endlag and not the horrific 92 frames of endlag that it had in Smash 4. Also does more damage fully charged.
> Trampoline seems to be able to be turned green by opponents' attacks, as shown in his trailer where Ike F-smashed it. The green trampoline acts as a red one.

That was all I could think of and took notice of. Of course, take everything with a grain of Pac-salt, as these are just my observations. (His smash attacks may have received less start-up and/or endlag but honestly it's so hard to tell since they look very similar to Smash 4 Pac-Man's smash attacks, so I disregarded them.)

 

[Mechageo]

Robin now has a meter near his portrait that shows how much energy is left for tomes and his sword.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Can somebody tell me if Taunt Cancels are in the game? Because I can't think of any other explanation for what pink kirby did here (timestamped)

 

[MrGameguycolor]

For the Ice Climbers:

-Though this could be situational, Blizzard has both Popo and Nana blow in-front of Popo rather then separate directions.
-Nana does nothing while Popo has a grab and pummeling. (No Wobbling)
-For forward throw (and maybe all other throws), Nana steps back and cheers while Popo makes the throw. (Nana possibly can't assist in grabs anymore)
-Final Smash: When the mountain rises, Popo now rides the Pterodactyl while Nana follows on foot.
-The mountain now rotations with a polar bear slipping on an ledge.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

If you're also doing overall changes, characters can perform any smash attack while dashing. Also, A LOT of characters have very long charging periods for their smash attacks.

Bowser's nair is now this weird shell spin, similar to how it was in Melee and Brawl. Squirtle's attacks seem to be changed overall as well

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Link has a sword Beam on the first swing of F-Smash. But only when at 0%. Unknown if it doubles up with the damage dealt by the swing itself. If it does then that makes for good damage.

Bowser's Jab 1 is also a palm strike instead of a punch. Unknown if faster startup but the full jab combo appears very slightly weaker (About 12% in 1v1 when it should be at least 13%). His Whirling Fortress has also been modified to connect its hits consistently in the air. In Smash 4 air Fortress could feasibly multihit for massive damage but it wasn't designed to.

 

[Zinith]

Don't credit me for this one. Nikes discovered two things about Yoshi's Dash Attack (during Snake's demonstration in the Direct)

Dash Attack covers a shorter distance

Dash Attack has reduced startup lag

 

[Iridium]

Link will fire sword beams if he has no damage, but I do not know which attacks trigger them.
Samus's Bombs seem to explode on proximity again. Also her super missile seems to have a slight delay after firing and heads at a slight angle, but that could be my imagination. Also, she has a new up throw where she fires a missile into the opponent point blank, launching them upwards.
Inklings seem to get buffs when they have more ink in their tanks? Also, ink on the stages will slow fighters down

Forward smash is pretty much confirmed to do so. Awesomeperson159 , you should note for Diddy Kong that his animation for his jab has changed, which you will see in his own video. Rosalina can equip items now with Gravitational Pull instead of just bringing them over. Captain Falcon and Toon Link also have their forward smashes changed in animation, which you can also see in their videos. Sonic can cancel Spin Dash after charging. Snake has had his up tilt's hitbox reduced to remain at his leg accurately.

Zinith , how do you show icons for buffs, nerfs or changes?

 

[Octorockandroll]

A lot of characters appear to have jacked up movement speed. Ike, Marth, Dorf and a bubch of others seem to move way faster both on the ground and in the air. Anyone else notice this?

 

[Blackrider213]

Oh, I can't believe I missed this obvious one. Percentages are no longer whole numbers and now include one decimal point.

 

[LunarNinja]

Fox's Side Special now has a visual que during its start lag. He flashes cyan blue before the move comes out during the posing for it.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Fox's Side Special now has a visual que during its start lag. He flashes cyan blue before the move comes out during the posing for it.

I've noticed a lot of moves seem to have this now. I quite like the idea as it could help people learn when to punish more efficiently.

 

[L9999]

Something missed by Blank during the Ness VS Pit fight. Up Smash killed Pit. That **** never killed in Smash 4.

 

[Acrete]

A lot of characters appear to have jacked up movement speed. Ike, Marth, Dorf and a bubch of others seem to move way faster both on the ground and in the air. Anyone else notice this?

Absolutely. I main both Ike and dorf and can see the distinct differences in speed. If they have been buffed in damage also then we will be laughing.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Absolutely. I main both Ike and dorf and can see the distinct differences in speed. If they have been buffed in damage also then we will be laughing.

With that sort of speed I think you'll be laughing anyway.

You probably dont even care that you lost your old up air.

 

[xPROFx]

As already mentioned by mister_subarashi stage selection comes before character selection

For the love of stick this thread already

 

[Katy Parry]

Straight from my Moveset thread on the Zelda boards. Trying to lead the revolution. Lol All info on how Phantom Slash works.

ITS ZELDA, *****.
​

DOWNWARD SPECIAL - Phantom Slash

Phantom Slash has received a major overhaul in Ultimate.

Phantom Slash now is a single press chargeable move. Pressing B again will release the Phantom as its current charge level, and has five charge levels. You can see this easily by watching the visual cue: counting the pieces as they fall and “shake“ as it forms. (The final piece, the head, is the visual indication the Phantom will be delayed.)
Each level is a different attack. Finally, Releasing the fifth charge delays the phantom, invoking for crazy sets ups, baits, and edgeguarding. A very “traditional fighter” stylized projectile, allowing her to pressure opponents safely. The Phantom still acts as a shield as well.

Level One - Kick

Level Two - Fist

Level Three - Strike

Level Four - Slash

Level Five - Slash (Trap)

GRAB - Hex Hold

PUMMEL - Flash

FORWARD THROW - Levitation

BACKWARD THROW - Reverse Levitation

UPWARD THROW - Levitation Launch

DOWNWARD THROW - Plasma Beat

 

[MysticKnives]

During the treehouse intermission, there was a match between a Pit and Ness.

I noticed PK Flash was MUCH faster and had less end lag.

Down smash *might* have less end lag but it might be very minimal

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/273186589?t=03h50m49s

The up smash also seems like it kills earlier than it did in Smash 4.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Straight from my Moveset thread on the Zelda boards. Trying to lead the revolution. Lol All info on how Phantom Slash works.

Was it just me or did Zelda's aerials also seem a lot better during the invitational? I know they were all the same moves but I remember thinking they seemed way better at keeping people out. Not sure if it was better hitboxes or higher knockback but they just seemed way stronger than in other games.

 

[ottobot]

if you look at ness's character trailer on the official site, you'll see that when he uses his Up special, a small arrow symbol appears next to him that seems to point in the direction that ness will fly if he hits himself with Pk thunders current angle. presumably lucas will have this as well but i dont think weve actually seen it. not sure if this is a nerf or a buff because while it makes pk thunder easier to use, a good ness player doesnt really need it, while it makes the move slightly easier for the opponent to read.