The Transition: New Mechanics, Re-works, Balance Changes Thread

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Jan 2, 2018
Messages
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Dreamland
#1
I initially wrote a list of all the characters and their balance changes on the Smash Bros Ultimate Speculation Thread. However, it was soon buried under several pages, so for reference, I have it all here. This thread will have all the new re-works, changes and mechanics either a) displayed in video by Nintendo or b) in patch notes.

What the circles mean:
means a nerf.
means (mostly) even, aesthetic, or new move of unknown effect.
means a buff.
Credit to the Smash Bros. Wiki for the icons.

From E3, Treehouse, smashbros.com
General
Similar fall speed to Smash 4 (may be floatier or faster falling, not doing pixel measurements)
Seems to be good for casuals (like Brawl) while still retaining competitive viability (like Melee), to deliver an experience that leans more towards both ends at once than Sm4sh. What I mean is that it's more competitive than 4 while still being more beginner-friendly than Melee, not slow like Brawl or anything.
Damage increased during 1v1s
New perfect shields: now, releasing the Shield button right when your shield gets hit will cause the character to turn bright white with yellow eyes with no shield damage
New animation, which I call the Power Hit animation (like KO Punch, zooms in with lines to indicate power while the background turns dark blue). Plays when the opponent takes a fatal blow on their last stock in a 1v1 (extreme hype intensifies) or the opponent takes a powerful move (i.e. Falcon Punch, Super Jump Punch (fire sweetspot on luigi), Warlock Punch...). The last part is not verified and is only shown in the trailers. (e.g. https://youtu.be/LlNXKM3sHWU?t=16s)

Stages
New stages: Mario Odyssey, Plateau Tower, Moray Towers
Omega form, Battlefield form, AND hazardless forms all available (thx sakurai)

Fighters
Air dodging from Melee (NOT brawl/4) with no freefall, however most likely can only be used once before landing. There is wavelanding, but also heavy landing lag (no more wavedashing to approach/dodge safely) and also no airdodge immediately out of double jump (pointed out by NobleClamtasm NobleClamtasm )
Dashes can be cancelled into smash attacks (not just USmash anymore)
Fighters with mechanics like Limit, Pocket... where they store something is now on HUD
Mario (01)
New Taunts (Cappy, Thumbs Up)
New Alts (Mario Maker, Wedding)
DK (02)
New Final Smash (Extremely long jab combo before finishing with a deadly punch)
Charged Giant Punch now has the Power Hit animation (like KO Punch, zooms in with lines to indicate power while the background turns dark blue)
Cargo throw now only uses 1 hand (like he carries Pauline in the arcade game)
Giant punch: No longer leaves DK in helplessness (pointed out by Iridium Iridium )
Link (03)
Design Updated (now matches BoTW)
Down B changed to remote bomb from BoTW, allowing for remote detonation (pointed out by edde edde )
New Final Smash (ancient arrow from BoTW)
Grab changed, no longer a tether with Clawshot. Significantly less range, but less lag (pointed out by B Blackrider213 )
Neutral B: Link can pick up arrows and fire them alongside his regular arrow for a multi-shot attack (pointed out by TheHumanSonikku TheHumanSonikku )
FSmash: Shoots a projectile at 0% (pointed out by Wyatt Davis Wyatt Davis )
FAir: First hit nerfed, but it leads easily into the powerful second hit (pointed out by Iridium Iridium )
Samus (04)
Can charge Charge Shot in the Air (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
New UThrow: Launches a missile into opponent, knocking them upwards (pointed out by PlasmaSnow12 PlasmaSnow12 )
Bombs explode on contact (pointed out by MasterOfKnees MasterOfKnees )
Yoshi (05)
Egg Throw now bounces off the ground (pointed out by YoshiandToad YoshiandToad )
Grab animation significantly changed (pointed out by Zinith Zinith )
BAir: Hits are much faster (pointed out by Zinith Zinith )
New FTilt (pointed out by Zinith Zinith )
Dash Attack covers a shorter distance (discovered by Nikes Nikes )
Dash Attack has reduced startup lag (discovered by Nikes Nikes )
Kirby (06)
Fully Charged Hammer now has the Power Hit Animation
New Rock: Chest from BoTW
Dash attack reverted to that of Melee
Inhale: More projectiles can be inhaled including Samus's Charge Shot (pointed out by Iridium Iridium )
Fox (07)
New Final Smash: Hops in a ship, blasts opponent with lasers with the Star Fox Crew
Only the first shine shine-stalls (pointed out by Rhus Rhus )
Pikachu (08)
New Nair (strikes a pose while charging self with electricity)
Thunder makes Pikachu turn bright yellow when hit
Volt Tackle (final smash) is now a fast combo, similar to the final smashes of Greninja, Ike, etc.
New Alts: Pikachu Libre, Female Pokémon Trainer Pikachu
Luigi (09)
Up-B sweetspot has the Power Hit Animation
New Combo: DAir -> UTilt -> FTilt (or maybe even an Up-B, from the proximity)
New UTilt: Uppercut (pointed out by MarioMeteor MarioMeteor )
New dash animation (pointed out by MarioMeteor MarioMeteor )
New green missile charging and misfire animations (pointed out by MarioMeteor MarioMeteor )
Ness (10)
New Grab: Holds onto opponents with PSI
New Pummel: Charges opponents with PSI (a very slow pummel).
PK Thunder Self-Hit hitbox now has the Power Hit Animation
New arrow on PK Thunder (points in the direction you will get launched if it hits at that angle. Makes it easier for new players, but makes it easier to read (pointed out by ottobot ottobot )
PK Starstorm: Projectiles move slowly however swarm the screen, and gets characters from EarthBound (don't know their names rip) that know PK Starstorm to help him cast it
New UAir (pointed out by Blank1 Blank1 )
PK Flash: Increased speed and reduced lag make it less PK Trash (pointed out by Blank1 Blank1 )
Up Smash: Knockback increased (pointed out by MysticKnives MysticKnives )
Captain Falcon (11)
Falcon Punch: Gained the Power Hit Animation, now has a MASSIVE vertical hitbox shaped like a pheonix
Jigglypuff (12)
Rest: Gained the Power Hit Animation
Rollout: Uncharged has much less lag (only 1 spin) (pointed out by MarioMeteor MarioMeteor )
Puff Up: Now has an angry face when puffing up
Peach (13)
Toad helps her when using her grab
Not on website, but since Mario and Daisy have wedding alts, I'm guessing Peach does too
Toad animation changed: instead of sticking him out, Toad seems to protect peach more (pointed out by YoshiandToad YoshiandToad )
Daisy (13 Echo)
- Peach clone with minor animation differences:
- Uses Blue Toad
- Has daisies instead of hearts
Bowser (14)
Giga Bowser: Warps behind the stage, a crosshair appears, and when you press A, wherever it is you punch and screen KO anyone there (at any percent)
New DSmash: Swipes quickly (at least for Bowser) in front and behind him (Pointed out by bibbit bibbit )
Ice Climbers (15)
Belay: Now has a blue rope
Nana: Now hops on the spot panicking when Popo is grabbed, no longer making Popo immune to grabs
No longer attacks when Popo pummels (pointed out by MrGameguycolor MrGameguycolor )
For forward throw (most likely the others as well) Nana will cheer while Popo throws, making Nana no longer able to smash attack opponents during throws (pointed out by MrGameguycolor MrGameguycolor )
New DSmash: Lead smashes in front along the ground, AI smashes behind. Compared to the old one, much lower damage, but less ending lag (pointed out by B Blackrider213 )
Sheik (16)
Not sure if this is in Smash 4, but Up-B has a fire effect
Grenade: String now moves straight out, removed freefall (pointed out by TenZaBlade TenZaBlade )
New final smash: The Sheikah Symbol appears in front of her, and everyone caught in it gets slashed repeatedly until they get KO'd (pointed out by Blank1 Blank1 )
Zelda (17)
Model is re-designed
Phantom: Now a one hit button move, has 4 charging phases: Level One - Kick, Level Two - Fist, Level Three - Strike, Level Four - Slash (pointed out by Phantom Slash Phantom Slash )
The phantom can be left behind and remotely activated (pointed out by Phantom Slash Phantom Slash )
Final Smash: Changed to Triforce of Wisdom (Pulls enemies into the Triforce of Wisdom, which then explodes into light)
Din's Fire: No longer causes freefall
Dr. Mario (18)
New DAir: Thrusts legs down to spike the opponent
Doctor Tornado: Now either has a bigger hitbox and/or more priority (which relates to damage)
No longer a clone due to new moves
Pichu (19)
New Move: Shocks an opponent, stunning them (could be neutral B, side B or down tilt)
Final Smash: Identical to that of Pikachu
No longer a clone due to new moves
New Combo (maybe): USmash->Thunder (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
Falco (20)
New final smash, like that of Fox but with a more wild flight pattern (pointed out by YoshiandToad YoshiandToad )
Laser fire rate increased (pointed out by IndigoSSB IndigoSSB )
Rapid jab: New finisher (pointed out by IndigoSSB IndigoSSB )
New spot dodge (pointed out by IndigoSSB IndigoSSB )
Marth (21)
Dancing Blade: Now strikes much faster
Shield Breaker: Can be angled, power hit animation if it hits a shield
Now fully dubbed in english outside of Japan (pointed out by Iridium Iridium )
New idle, crouching, and spotdodge animations (Credit to the Smash Bros. Wiki)
Lucina (21 Echo)
Dancing Blade: Now strikes much faster
Shield Breaker: Can be angled, power hit animation if it hits a shield
Young Link (22)
New final smash, not shown
No longer a clone due to link reworks
Ganondorf (23)
Model updated to look like Melee
Warlock Punch now has the power hit animation
New FSmash: Swings a sword overhead in a broad, heavy, slow swing for massive damage (like Ike's FSmash)
New USmash: Swings his sword completely over his head, from one side to another (like Ike's usmash) (pointed out by DesireDelta DesireDelta )
New DSmash: Jabs his sword along the ground on both sides (like Cloud's dsmash) (pointed out by DesireDelta DesireDelta )
Mewtwo (24)
N/A
Roy (25)
Charged Neutral B has the power hit animation and can be reversed before the attack
New dash animation (pointed out by MarioMeteor MarioMeteor )
Now fully dubbed in English
Double-Edge Dance strikes much faster (credit to the Smash Wiki)
Mr. Game & Watch (26)
All his attacks turn him into the characters from the game it's based on (Chef turns him into the chef, Judge turns him into the judge, etc.)
Final Smash is now a command grab that carries foes into the blast zone
Meta Knight (27)
DThrow is slower
Shuttle Loop does almost no knockback on the second hit (just a happy thing for Sm4sh players)
New alt: Galacta Knight (pointed out by Whababa Whababa )
Pit (28)
New Final Smash: Stuns nearby foes, then Pit flies off on a chariot with winged horses and a crosshair appears. Wherever it is when A is pressed, Pit will charge through the enemy.
New animations for FSmash, NAir, and Rapid Jab (pointed out by TMNTSSB4 TMNTSSB4 )
Multihits connect much better (pointed out by TMNTSSB4 TMNTSSB4 and LancerStaff LancerStaff )
UAir: Damage increased (10 total -> 12 total) (pointed out by LancerStaff LancerStaff )
DAir: Clean hit damage decreased (10 -> 9), weakening its edgeguarding potential. (pointed out by LancerStaff LancerStaff )
Dash attack: New animation, decent kill move but not nearly as much distance (pointed out by LancerStaff LancerStaff )
Dark Pit (28 Echo)
New animations for FSmash, NAir, and Rapid Jab (pointed out by TMNTSSB4 TMNTSSB4 )
Multihits connect much better (pointed out by TMNTSSB4 TMNTSSB4 and LancerStaff LancerStaff )
UAir: Damage increased (10 total -> 12 total) (pointed out by LancerStaff LancerStaff )
DAir: Clean hit damage decreased (10 -> 9), weakening its edgeguarding potential. (pointed out by LancerStaff LancerStaff )
Dash attack: New animation, decent kill move but not nearly as much distance (pointed out by LancerStaff LancerStaff )
Zero Suit Samus (29)
Can now infinitely wall jump with Flip Kick
Wario (30)
Max Waft has Power Hit effect
Dash Attack changed to Brawl F-Smash (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
Final Smash: Wario-Man is now a short animation of him beating up nearby foes before launching them.
Snake (31)
New DSmash (pointed out by MarioMeteor MarioMeteor )
Ike (32)
Fully Charged Eruption shoots a massive column of blue flame and has the power hit animation
Default Ike is now Path of Radiance Ike (pointed out by Idon Idon )
Idle Stance now uses his limp arm Path of Radiance stance (Even if wearing the Radiant Dawn costume) (pointed out by Idon Idon )
Up-Air is no longer helicopter, quick overhead arcing slash. (pointed out by Idon Idon )
Down-B now has a blue flame effect (pointed out by Idon Idon )
Radiant Dawn Ike now voiced slightly differently compared to Path of Radiance Ike (pointed out by Idon Idon )
Great Aether has new cinematic shot at the beginning (pointed out by Idon Idon )
Pokémon Trainer (33-35)
Zard is back on Trainer
NO MORE TERRIBLE MECHANICS! YAY! No more stamina (solo mains are viable), no more type effectiveness
Changing Pokémon seemingly makes you intangible, being a quick and useful dodge
Female Trainer Alts
Squirtle: New dash animation (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
New dash attack or dash attack animation. Again, he has water around him while doing it (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
From the Armada-Zer0 match at the Invitational, it looks like they removed shellshifting on Squirtle (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
Diddy Kong (36)
New Taunt
Lucas (37)
PK Starstorm updated to match that of Ness
Sonic (38)
Super Sonic now slices across the screen at blazing fast speed (at least 5x his dash speed), knocking opponents up and juggling them into the blast zone
Homing Attack now has a reticle (pointed out by TenZaBlade TenZaBlade )
King Dedede (39)
Can inhale and spit gordos (the gordos do NOT turn into stars)
New Final Smash: Hits opponents into a stadium, pins them against a wall and uses his jet hammer for a missile barrage (pointed out by YoshiandToad YoshiandToad )
Olimar (40)
New grab: Uses all of his pikmin, pummels with his own fists, new UThrow (the pikmin work together to lob the opponent upwards) (pointed out by Dig Dug Dig Dug )
Lucario (41)
N/A (however new combo: FAir->FAir->FAir)
R.O.B. (42)
DThrow: Now buries
Toon Link (43)
New FSmash: Uppercuts with his sword, finisher of a 4-hit combo in Windwaker (pointed out by Khao Khao )
New Combo: UTilt->DAir->Grab)
Wolf (44)
N/A
Villager (45)
Villager's rapid jabs have a finishing blow now, so after you release the attack button, Villager will throw out one last powerful punch (pointed out by DakotaBonez DakotaBonez )
Mega Man (46)
2 more characters in Final Smash
Leaf Shield: Faster, no longer loses leaves (pointed out by Erimir Erimir )
Wii Fit Trainer (47)
N/A
Rosalina (48)
New NAir (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
I assume from Icies that Luma can't attack if Rosa is being grabbed
Little Mac (49)
The buff EVERY Mac player was waiting for, Jolt no longer triggers helplessness (at least on the ground)
KO punch now gives vertical momentum and does full KB in the air (I dislike this change)
Can turn around before Straight Lunge
New final smash, dashes forward with a jab flurry
Greninja (50)
N/A
Miis (51-53)
New customs
Palutena (54)
Has Explosive Custom Side Special from 4 (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
Counter now reflects projectiles (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
Pac-Man (55)
Hydrant: Hitting water will cancel the windbox
Final Smash: No longer controlled by player, instead Pac-Man dashes across the screen
Looks like a new UTilt. He raises his fist rather than doing his headbutt thing (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
Hitboxes turn Pac-Man's trampoline green, making it behave like a red trampoline. (pointed out by
New 8-Bit character added to his taunt pool (pointed out by TenZaBlade TenZaBlade )
Grab speed (FINALLY) increased (pointed out by DaUsername DaUsername )
Bonus fruit: Charges much faster, (pointed out by xzx xzx )
Dash speed increased (pointed out by xzx xzx )
NAir: Hitbox size increased (pointed out by xzx xzx )
BAir: Landing lag decreased (22->18?) (pointed out by xzx xzx )
DAir: Angle modified, making opponents knocked away instead of up (pointed out by xzx xzx )
Lag decreased (pointed out by xzx xzx )
(Might) be autocancelable from a short hop (pointed out by xzx xzx )
Side B: End lag decreased (pointed out by xzx xzx )
Damage increased at full charge (pointed out by xzx xzx )
Robin (56)
Elwind: Can be angled
Shulk (57)
Monado Arts: After 1 cycle, shows a wheel with all 5 monado arts
Bowser Jr. (58)
Final Smash hits much faster
Duck Hunt (59)
The initial Can kick sends the Can farther. In Sm4sh, the Can ends up right next to DH if the move is done from the ground, but the Can seems to travel some distance in the DH trailer (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
UpB no longer makes you helpless upon ending. Good buff for Duck Hunt's exploitable recovery (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
The Gunmen look like they shoot more quickly upon use of the move (pointed out by EMT~ EMT~ )
Ryu (60)
In 1v1s, Ryu always faces his foe (pointed out by mister_subarashi mister_subarashi )
Cloud (61)
Cross Slash's slashes are now very thin
Can only have a limit charge for 15 seconds before losing it (pointed out by Murlough Murlough , confirmed by Tweek)
Corrin (62)
Side B can be cancelled without the attack (pointed out by DjinnandTonic DjinnandTonic )
Bayonetta (63)
Grab is now magical, suspending opponents with black magic.
Witch time duration modified, either based off countered attack's KB or damage (pointed out by Murlough Murlough )
Sadly, her upper blast zone combo has not been patched out :(
Inklings (64)
- All alts are different models
- Most attacks give foes Ink (increasing damage by up to 3x)
- Neutral? Special (or maybe it works like Megaman's pellets): Shoots a short stream of ink with the Splattershot
- Side? Special: Pulls out a Splat Roller and rolls over foes, burying them
- Final Smash: Pulls out the Killer Wail and blasts foes
- Smash attacks use weapons like Slosher and Inkbrush
Ridley (65)
-Neutral Special: Shoots a bouncing fireball. Charge to shoot tons at a time.
-Side Special: Dashes forward, grabbing nearby foes and dragging them along the ground for massive damage and knockback.
-Up Special: Flies in a given direction. Think a purple version of Pit's Up-B but with more startup.
-Down Special: Charges up (for maybe 20 frames?), before releasing his tail like a spear. Normally deals 1%, however has a sweetspot at the tip that deals 50%, triggers the powerful hit animation, and causes an opponent to fall over (as if they were impaled). 50% is enough to break any shield in 4, so be careful.
-Final Smash: Throws foes onto the side of a ship, then blows up the ship with a giant fiery death ray, KO'ing any on-board foes.


Be sure to correct me if I miss anything. I only have specials for newcomers.
 
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YoshiandToad

Smash Master
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Still up Peach's dress.
#3
Peach/Daisy's Toad Counter also has a significantly different animation with Toad seemingly protecting her rather than her forcing him out in front of her. Trying to work out if that alters the mechanics of the counter itself but it's a bit too early to tell.

Falco has a totally different Final Smash

Dedede has a totally different Final Smash
 
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Chibi-Chan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
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#4
Great breakdown! I watched the gameplay after but couldn't get a good feel of the base game mechanics like gravity, movespeed, momentum, stun, combo potential, etc... Anybody got a good analysis for that?
 

DesireDelta

Smash Rookie
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Jun 12, 2018
Messages
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#6
Ganon has a New Down-Smash(Similar to that of Cloud's) and Up-Smash(Similar to that of Ike's). Both also use his Sword
 

Erimir

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#7
Mega Man's Leaf Shield has less start up, rotates (and hits) faster and doesn't lose leaves.
 

Dig Dug

Chronic Lurker
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Jan 24, 2013
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#8
Olimar's grab got reworked a lot.

-He now grabs with all of his Pikmin instead of just one.
-His pummel now has Olimar punching the opponent instead of having the Pikmin hit them
-Up throw now has a different animation with the three Pikmin working together to toss the opponent up. They didn't show his other throws in his video, but with the change to his grab I'm assuming they're different, too.
 
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Idon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
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#9
Ike confirmed changes:
Default Ike is now Path of Radiance Ike
Idle Stance now uses his limp arm Path of Radiance stance (Even if wearing the Radiant Dawn costume)
Up-Air is no longer helicopter, quick overhead arcing slash.
Down-B now has a blue flame effect
Neutral-B now causes multiple ranged explosions expanding outwards at a certain charge
Radiant Dawn Ike now voiced slightly differently compared to Path of Radiance Ike
Great Aether has new cinematic shot at the beginning

TLDR; NO ****ING SWORD BEAAAAAAAAAAAMS
 

Blackrider213

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 17, 2009
Messages
178
#10
It was mentioned I think during a Treehouse show or during the Smash tourney that Link's grab is no longer a clawshot because Breath of the Wild Link doesn't use it.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
564
#13
I'm tempted to say Mario's Up Smash was nerfed. I could've sworn I saw MKLeo stuff it on startup and despite Rage it failed to KO Sonic at high percentages.

Conversely some of Sonic's moves look buffed. Leo propped up a shield at one point the second he hit the ground after an Up Smash. I might be remembering wrong but I don't think it had as little end lag in Smash 4 as they did in that demo.
 
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Idon

Smash Journeyman
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#14
I'm tempted to say Mario's Up Smash was nerfed. I could've sworn I saw MKLeo stuff it on startup and despite Rage it failed to KO Sonic at high percentages.

Conversely some of Sonic's moves look buffed. Leo propped up a shield at one point the second he hit the ground again. I might be remembering wrong but I don't think his Up Smash had as little end lag in Smash 4 as they did in that demo.
Of all characters to need buffs, Sonic is nooooooot one of them.
I'd be pissed if this was true.
 

EMT~

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
32
Location
Iowa
#16
Some possible changes I noticed with characters I'm more familiar with:

Duck Hunt:
-The initial Can kick sends the Can farther. In Sm4sh, the Can ends up right next to DH if the move is done from the ground, but the Can seems to travel some distance in the DH trailer.
-UpB no longer makes you helpless upon ending (YEAH BUDDY).
-The Gunmen look like they shoot more quickly upon use of the move.

Pac-Man:
-Side-B looks like a two-hit move now rather than being single-hit.
-Looks like a new UTilt. He raises his fist rather than doing his headbutt thing.
-I think some things changed about the trampoline. In the Pac-Man character trailer, it looks like Ike's FSmash changes the color of the trampoline, implying that certain attacks might trigger a bounce on it. Also, I think the amount of bounces the trampoline lasts for has decreased by one, as only PacMan's initial use of the move and the above attack triggered the trampoline before Ike was put into helpless by landing on it.
Correction: Looking at the invitational, it looks like the number of bounces for the Trampoline hasn't changed. That makes me wonder what exactly happened in the PacMan-Ike encounter in the PacMan trailer.

Squirtle:
-Some new form of mobility wherein he rides on water while on the ground. I'm guessing a new dash animation.
-New dash attack or dash attack animation. Again, he has water around him while doing it.
-From the Armada-Zer0 match at the Invitational, it looks like they removed shellshifting ATs.

G&W:
-Possible throw->Judge combo?
-I'm sad it's his Smash 4 incarnation and not his Melee/Brawl/PM incarnation :(
 
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DakotaBonez

The Depraved Optimist
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Jun 23, 2012
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San Marcos, Texas
#17
I'm tempted to say Mario's Up Smash was nerfed. I could've sworn I saw MKLeo stuff it on startup and despite Rage it failed to KO Sonic at high percentages.

Conversely some of Sonic's moves look buffed. Leo propped up a shield at one point the second he hit the ground after an Up Smash. I might be remembering wrong but I don't think it had as little end lag in Smash 4 as they did in that demo.

It seemed like the blast zones were significantly extended off the visible screen in all directions.
It also looks like Air Friction has been increased. Like, the character's get launched at much higher speeds, but they also come to a stop much faster.
 

Rawkstar

Smash Lord
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#19
I could be completely wrong, but I was under the impression that Sheik's recovery had some kind of invincibility on start-up in the WiiU/3DS release. In a set between MKLeo and Zero, MKLeo scores a KO against Zero in what I believe was the same startup of Sheik's recovery. I'll try and find a link for someone more knowledgeable than myself to confirm

found it: https://youtu.be/q_mbvCzjpPw?t=2600
 
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Zinith

Brrriiim PAH!!
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#20
I've noticed two more things while going through Yoshi's trailer (where else would I be?)

His back air is faster and it's easier to connect all hits

His Down B SEEMS to have Super or Heavy Armor during startup

Emphasis on "seems"
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
29
#21
This thread should REALLY be stickied. As for changes:

- Ryu is always facing the opponent during one-on-one matches
- Option to turn off stage hazards is in, confirmed by Nario
- Stage selection comes before character selection
- There is some sort of Throw Tech going on, almost seems like he did a Perfect Block on that throw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CacpUbFBPgA
Edit: turns out that both players need to grab at almost the same time for it to happen, like most fighting games. In short, both throws cancel eachother out.
- No wavedashing, but there is a documented example of wavelanding. Assuming it wasn't a bug, wavelanding is in in some form.
- No L-Cancelling (to reduce lag in moves like in Melee, only the usual L-Cancel to avoid downed state that's in the other games)
- No momentum preservation when jumping after dashing (GODDAMMIT Sakurai!)
 
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DjinnandTonic

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#22
Since they said that ALL characters are back... does that mean that Isaac from Golden Sun is an Assist Trophy again? That would make my day.

From the trailer: It looks like Corrin's Side-B can be cancelled once it sticks, instead of being forced to follow through into the kick.
Fox and Falco have a new cutscene Final Smash instead of the Landmaster. Presumably Wolf does too, but I can't confirm that.
Villager, Cloud, and Robin got unique meters on their HUDs to aid their special functions like Pocket, Limit, and Weapon Durability. Possibly other characters with special mechanics might have something too, but those were the ones mentioned directly in the trailer.
Shulk: Fiora added to his Final Smash
Dedede: Brand new cutscene Final Smash
 

Chimera

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#23
Can anyone give me a summary of the Air dodging change? I’ve heard you can only dodge once in the air, while also hearing you can still doge multiple times but it gets worse as you do it.
 

NobleClamtasm

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#24
Can anyone give me a summary of the Air dodging change? I’ve heard you can only dodge once in the air, while also hearing you can still doge multiple times but it gets worse as you do it.
  • You cannot air dodge immediately after a jump, so that smooth frame perfect wavedash you see in Melee currently isn’t possible
  • Directional air dodge still produces a sliding effect that on the ground, so wavelanding is definitely still a thing
  • Due to a trait that was carried over from Smash 4’s engine, there is landing lag when you airdodge into the ground, making it lack the same utility it has in Melee
  • You cannot wavedash/land off ledges
  • Unconfirmed: If the stale airdodge penalty affects the amount of landing lag you get or wavedash distance

And keep in mind this is a demo. With a few tweaks, the wavedashing we know and love can see a return in the final game.
 

Chimera

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#25
  • You cannot air dodge immediately after a jump, so that smooth frame perfect wavedash you see in Melee currently isn’t possible
  • Directional air dodge still produces a sliding effect that on the ground, so wavelanding is definitely still a thing
  • Due to a trait that was carried over from Smash 4’s engine, there is landing lag when you airdodge into the ground, making it lack the same utility it has in Melee
  • You cannot wavedash/land off ledges
  • Unconfirmed: If the stale airdodge penalty affects the amount of landing lag you get or wavedash distance

And keep in mind this is a demo. With a few tweaks, the wavedashing we know and love can see a return in the final game.
I appreciate the response, but I’m not really asking about wavedashing/landing:
 

Pikablu Pikachu

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#26
Greninja
  1. Red eyes now appear in Shadow Sneak's shadow immediately before activating the attack.
  2. Shadow Sneak's forward attack animation is different; Greninja performs a single kick rather than a flip. Functionally the same though.
 
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#28
Thanks for the replies, everyone! I'll try to update this daily.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/152575989283553282/456529775666790420/Dash_Dance_examples.gif
Can we talk about dash dancing for a second? Here's a clip of ZeRo using it, it looks very useful.
It was in Sm4sh, too. Top players (like Poke in this clip, as an example) can do it. It's difficulty might be similar to that of Melee (in that it's easier than other games). Perfect pivoting is in every game (though you'll trip in brawl).
 

Octavium

''Fear doesn't stop death, it stops life.''
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#29
It was in Sm4sh, too. Top players (like Poke in this clip, as an example) can do it. It's difficulty might be similar to that of Melee (in that it's easier than other games). Perfect pivoting is in every game (though you'll trip in brawl).
Yes it was but it was called extended dash dancing or dance throtting and it was very difficult to be consistent with. The new one seems to be one action for one direction. Making it much more consistent and fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azRrqKUJ-5o
 
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TimeSmash

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#30
A small change, but in the video displaying the Perfect Shield mechanic, I noticed that when a Perfect Shield is performed, the character's eyes will turn yellow, in the same way they did when having a Final Smash aura
 
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#31
Added everything that was commented, thanks for telling me! I didn't view all the treehouse stuffs, so anything related to that would be useful.
EDIT: Forgot Perfect Shield, thanks TimeSmash!
 
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#32
Bowser’s down tilt tripped before, that’s not a new change. Here are some things I noticed

- Mario’s dash attack, down smash and Cape have slightly more exaggerated animations.
- Luigi’s up tilt seems to be different (an uppercut instead of a swipe), as does his forward tilt (now he faces the camera like Mario). His Green Missile also has a different charging animation, and now he spins when he Misfires. Finally, he now dashes like he does in the Mario games, leaning back with his fists in front of his chests.
- Jigglypuff’s Rollout is now much faster when uncharged (she rolls once then stops).
- Roy’s dashing animation looks to be unique now instead of just Marth’s but faster. Also his down air sets you on fire now.
- Snake has a new down smash.
 
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#34
Great breakdown! I watched the gameplay after but couldn't get a good feel of the base game mechanics like gravity, movespeed, momentum, stun, combo potential, etc... Anybody got a good analysis for that?
- Gravity is similar to Sm4sh, might be a bit floatier or heavier
- Speed seems to be similar to Sm4sh
- Air friction seems to be higher
- Hitstun caps out at a shorter amount for faster, more dramatic launches
- High combo potential (though w/o airdodge freefall or massive hitstun, it's no Melee or 64)
 
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#36
Added everything that was commented, thanks for telling me! I didn't view all the treehouse stuffs, so anything related to that would be useful.
EDIT: Forgot Perfect Shield, thanks TimeSmash!
The thread is coming along really nicely, good job on keeping it updated Awesomeperson159! Now where's that damn sticky? :smirk:

For all you eagle eyed folks out there, I know that a dash can now be canceled with smashes, tilts and so on (they even showed a bit of it in the Treehouse stream), but did anyone notice if the dashes can be down canceled like good ol' Melee? Or are we stuck with block canceling?
 

bibbit

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#37
Thanks for making this thread; it's a great place to compile all the character-specific changes.

Bowser has a new downsmash in which he swipes in front and behind him. Pretty quick (for a bowser smash attack), strong enough, and more horizontal range than his old one.
 

TenZaBlade

Smash Rookie
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#38
Things I observed from watching tons of footage:

Sonic - Homing Attack makes a reticle appear over the opponent he's homing into much like the actual Sonic games
Pac-Man - new 8bit character added to the pool of his taunt (need to double-check)
Sheik: Grenade changed-- string shoots straight out iirc and doesn't cause you to go into freefall afterward
 

PlasmaSnow12

Smash Rookie
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Jul 7, 2014
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#39
Link will fire sword beams if he has no damage, but I do not know which attacks trigger them.
Samus's Bombs seem to explode on proximity again. Also her super missile seems to have a slight delay after firing and heads at a slight angle, but that could be my imagination. Also, she has a new up throw where she fires a missile into the opponent point blank, launching them upwards.
Inklings seem to get buffs when they have more ink in their tanks? Also, ink on the stages will slow fighters down
 
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