Social The Suburbs of Onett - Ness Social Thread

[Deleted member]

I wish I can go to Smash Con but it's kinda far from me. :/

 

[ROBnWatch]

Again, if I went there I'd probably just get rekt. I'm getting better, but I'm not at that level yet.

 

[ROBnWatch]

So, now that we have both EarthBound and EarthBound Beginnings, how long do you guys think we'll have to wait until Nintendo gives us Mother 3?

 

[Diamond Octobot]

So, now that we have both EarthBound and EarthBound Beginnings, how long do you guys think we'll have to wait until Nintendo gives us Mother 3?

The true question is : will we get Portal 3 / Half-Life 3 / a new F-Zero game before Mother 3 is published overseas ? (yes, it's a joke)

 

[Luco]

I'm gonna be totally honest - I don't think Nintendo is going to just leave Mother 3 behind. They've put too much attention onto the mother series, re-releasing EB, just recently re-releasing M1 as EB beginnings - it might take years, but I'm almost entirely convinced that some time down the road we will get our western release of Mother 3.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Finally, my Iwata drawing (though super late) is complete:

 

[AirshBornely]

SGDQ is featuring Earthboud right now!

Edit: Was great.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

I'm still waiting for a good Metroid game to make up for Other M....ugh that game was awful. I couldn't even get through a quarter of that game. I've been a big Metroid fan since the 2D scrolling versions (started off with the GBA versions, worked back to Super Metroid and original Metroid) and the Prime series doesn't even need me to say how great they were. I just wish they could make a good continuation of the series.

Also a big dream of mine (dream being a key word since it'll never be real) is a F-Zero game where you can run around bounty hunting as Captain Falcon and race on the side as well. There'd be so many ways to go about doing it, most of which I can see being done well since it's a Captain Douglas Jay Falcon game.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Who now? Ah, I'll find out later. I gotta get some sleep.

 

[Noa.]

I'm still waiting for a good Metroid game to make up for Other M....ugh that game was awful. I couldn't even get through a quarter of that game. I've been a big Metroid fan since the 2D scrolling versions (started off with the GBA versions, worked back to Super Metroid and original Metroid) and the Prime series doesn't even need me to say how great they were. I just wish they could make a good continuation of the series.

Also a big dream of mine (dream being a key word since it'll never be real) is a F-Zero game where you can run around bounty hunting as Captain Falcon and race on the side as well. There'd be so many ways to go about doing it, most of which I can see being done well since it's a Captain Douglas Jay Falcon game.

I have only played one Metriod game and that was Metroid Prime 3 Corruption. I would actually love to play the rest of the Metroid Prime series, as well as Super Metroid. I found this recent video series on the history of Metroid. It's pretty awesome!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usOer3fawFQ

It's very interesting and incredibly in depth.

I think they should release a new F-zero game and make the racing more compelling. I never played any of the F-zero games, but Nintendo could use a racing game has more depth and complexity than a kart game. There is definitely room for that.

 

[AirshBornely]

Who now? Ah, I'll find out later. I gotta get some sleep.

https://gamesdonequick.com/

 

[ROBnWatch]

Guys! With the next DLC pack they're releasing a Flying Man costume for the Miis!

 

[ROBnWatch]

Also, with past stages confirmed for returning, do you guys think we may see either New Pork City or Fourside make a return? I love the idea of both returning, since New Pork City would be perfect for 8 player Smash, and Fourside (even though I never played Melee) is a favorite idea of mine for returning stages. Thoughts?

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

Aesthetically I loved Fourside. Excellent looking stage, excellent music, it came together looking and sounding quite well. But the stage itself was annoying, especially for the less mobile characters. UFO was an interesting mechanic, no real qualms about it. Ironically Ness had a bad time on this stage due to being helpless if his double jump and an upwards air dodge couldn't get him back from falling inbetween buildings.

New Pork City was a stage I never really liked at all. Music was average at best, imo, though I do remember the Winters remix being a bit above-average but I might be biased on that since I tend to like Winters remixes the most of EB/Mother remixes (the exception being Fourside's Melee theme, my favorite of all time). The stage itself looked very nice, but the stage design was beyond bad. It's far too big even for an 8-player game, that place could fit in some crazy 16-player FFA shenanigans easily. Ultimate Chimera was an ultimate jerk as well, at least you could tech his bite if you get knocked into him on the lower parts of the stage.

 

[Jonarobin]

I'm still waiting for a good Metroid game to make up for Other M....ugh that game was awful. I couldn't even get through a quarter of that game. I've been a big Metroid fan since the 2D scrolling versions (started off with the GBA versions, worked back to Super Metroid and original Metroid) and the Prime series doesn't even need me to say how great they were. I just wish they could make a good continuation of the series.

I've played MP1, Super Metroid, and Metroid II, and I'm almost at the end of Fusion. I love these games so much their so good...

I've been a little discouraged from MP2 though as it doesn't seem as good, but I really wanna beat it at some point. I just have too much of a backlog...

It's cool that flying man is getting a costume, but I can't bring myself to like the mii fighters, they just seem slow and uninteresting (in their movesets)

 

[ROBnWatch]

Aesthetically I loved Fourside. Excellent looking stage, excellent music, it came together looking and sounding quite well. But the stage itself was annoying, especially for the less mobile characters. UFO was an interesting mechanic, no real qualms about it. Ironically Ness had a bad time on this stage due to being helpless if his double jump and an upwards air dodge couldn't get him back from falling inbetween buildings.

New Pork City was a stage I never really liked at all. Music was average at best, imo, though I do remember the Winters remix being a bit above-average but I might be biased on that since I tend to like Winters remixes the most of EB/Mother remixes (the exception being Fourside's Melee theme, my favorite of all time). The stage itself looked very nice, but the stage design was beyond bad. It's far too big even for an 8-player game, that place could fit in some crazy 16-player FFA shenanigans easily. Ultimate Chimera was an ultimate jerk as well, at least you could tech his bite if you get knocked into him on the lower parts of the stage.

Ya, I think I want Fourside back a bit more than New Pork City. Unless we get a completely new EarthBound/Mother stage. That might be cool. I mean, out of every place in the series, we've only got four of those places represented as stages.

Makes me think what they could do for other EarthBound/Mother stages. I guess I could list a few places I'd be interested to see as stages (places are from EarthBound only since I've beaten it and haven't gotten far in EarthBound Beginnings, plus haven't played Mother 3 yet). Anyways... my list...

Summers
Deep Darkness
Saturn Valley
Twoson/Happy Happy Village
Maybe Winters

And here's my long shot, a stage based on the area after Cave of the Past, with those orb things, and the battle takes place right outside the crack in the mountain that you go in to face Giygas. With Giygas and/or Pokey as a stage hazard/boss.

 

[Luco]

I actually once made a stage around Magicant, but my one was EBs Magicant rather than M1's. Still happy I was (kinda) right.


In other news, most people think Ness is a candidate for top 5, which surprises me. I think at this point I would put in that order as top 5.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I actually once made a stage around Magicant, but my one was EBs Magicant rather than M1's. Still happy I was (kinda) right.


In other news, most people think Ness is a candidate for top 5, which surprises me. I think at this point I would put in that order as top 5.

Ness is definitely top 10 or 15. 5, I dunno. This is also why I kinda don't like tier lists. I mean, they're fine, go ahead and make them, but when the meta game gets down to the same few characters over and over (even though I don't watch much competitive Smash) it's gets boring.

Also, I usually do better with characters that end up in middle to middle of high tier. So, in other words, I don't pay too much attention to tiers. In fact, of those 5, I can only use Sonic and Rosaluma well. The other 3 aren't as much of my cup of tea.

Anyways, what're your thoughts on any EarthBound/Mother DLC stages, Luco?

 

[Luco]

Ness is definitely top 10 or 15. 5, I dunno. This is also why I kinda don't like tier lists. I mean, they're fine, go ahead and make them, but when the meta game gets down to the same few characters over and over (even though I don't watch much competitive Smash) it's gets boring.

Also, I usually do better with characters that end up in middle to middle of high tier. So, in other words, I don't pay too much attention to tiers. In fact, of those 5, I can only use Sonic and Rosaluma well. The other 3 aren't as much of my cup of tea.

Anyways, what're your thoughts on any EarthBound/Mother DLC stages, Luco?

Top 5 doesn't necessarily mean those characters are the only good ones. I'd say viable in this game reaches right down into high tier (where and live), if not even slightly lower (like etc)

I doubt we'll get any characters soon. Stages I'm also skeptical of - though I understand if they want to bring an old stage back that's probably more likely. However, if they were to bring out a new stage, I'd enjoy a Saturn Valley stage very much. I'd say Tazmily Village but the more I think about the events that go on around it I think it's better to leave it alone and focus on the more iconic mother place. Also you can integrate some neat references from both EB and M3, like the Saturn time machine or the cage of birds.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Top 5 doesn't necessarily mean those characters are the only good ones. I'd say viable in this game reaches right down into high tier (where and live), if not even slightly lower (like etc)

I doubt we'll get any characters soon. Stages I'm also skeptical of - though I understand if they want to bring an old stage back that's probably more likely. However, if they were to bring out a new stage, I'd enjoy a Saturn Valley stage very much. I'd say Tazmily Village but the more I think about the events that go on around it I think it's better to leave it alone and focus on the more iconic mother place. Also you can integrate some neat references from both EB and M3, like the Saturn time machine or the cage of birds.

I assume the cage of birds is a Mother 3 reference. The Phase Distorter would be cool though. Maybe, when the Phase Distorter pops up, you temporarily transport to the Cave of the Past?

Wait, Peach is viable this time? I know she was in Melee, not so much in Brawl, but she's good this time? I haven't seen ANY Peachs online...

 

[Luco]

She's got a bit of special snowflake syndrome in that she's difficult to use and no-one uses her but she's retained all her strengths from Brawl pretty much.

I remember when I first picked up smash 4 and went to a tournament, we had a guy there who refused to enter into a tournament because he wasn't confident enough, but he used Peach and when we played friendlies our games were terrifyingly close. The reason that's so big is because no-one else at that tournament came even remotely close to touching me.

Times have changed since then, and Peach is probably close to an even MU for us, but even so I do hold her in quite a high regard.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Ah. I wonder where all my mains will end up once the first tier list is up...

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

People are overrating Ness too much this game. Like seriously, press the shield button on everything but his grab. Nothing he does except maaaybe a full-range PKF/PKT is safe on shield (depends on the character), especially if the move gets perfect shielded.

Ness is still a slow, rush-down character that doesn't deal very well with quick characters (Sheik, ZSS) and/or physical projectile spammers (Yoshi, Yoshi, and Yoshi). Sure he got a lot of very nice buffs, but those buffs simply accentuated his pros while his cons were barely improved on since his 64 days.

One last thing I don't get is why people are just now complaining about Ness' bthrow. That move has been at the same power for over 15 years, but I guess nobody cared about it when it was one of the only few good things he had going for him.

I'd rank Ness as a solid mid-low A rank tier (since most lists I've seen like having S tier ranks).

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

I've played MP1, Super Metroid, and Metroid II, and I'm almost at the end of Fusion. I love these games so much their so good...

I've been a little discouraged from MP2 though as it doesn't seem as good, but I really wanna beat it at some point. I just have too much of a backlog...

I preferred the first MP game the most, but the other two aren't really bad at all.

They simply suffer from the Celes-Terra syndrome, which is a FF6 term referring to Celes being a pretty good character in that game but a better form of her (stats and ability-wise) existed in Terra, who was really good in that game and basically did everything Celes did but much better, thus making Celes not worth using over her.

I still recommend going back at it if you ever feel like playing some MP. Overall they were a very good part of the Metroid series, way better than Other M can even dream of being.

 

[Luco]

People are overrating Ness too much this game. Like seriously, press the shield button on everything but his grab. Nothing he does except maaaybe a full-range PKF/PKT is safe on shield (depends on the character). Ness is still a slow, rush-down character that doesn't deal with speedy and/or physical projectile spammers well. Sure he got a lot of very nice buffs, but those buffs simply accentuated his pros while his cons were barely improved on since his 64 days.

One last thing I don't get is why people are just now complaining about Ness' bthrow. That move has been at the same power for over 15 years, but I guess nobody cared about it when it was one of the only few good things he had going for him.

I'd rank Ness as a solid mid-low A rank tier (since most lists I've seen like having S tier ranks).

That's what I thought... But considering his results and MU spread... Who is actually above him? Even Pika probably has like 5 losing MUs as opposed to like, our 4 or 5. Being comparable to Pikachu in that regard is pretty big. And to top it off, Ness has consistent top placings at locals and nationals, far moreso than anyone in the leagues of Yoshi, Falcon, Villager, MK or even chars like Mario and, possibly now after EVO, Luigi (No Luigi in top 8 or even possibly top 16/32? 2 Nesses in top 32, one of which was in top 8).

Dabuz thinks Ness is one of the four or so characters he could see vying for #3 on a tier list behind Sheik and ZSS (you know, the 3rd best US player that mains our hard counter right now and understands Ness' weaknesses). You might be skeptical (I am) but it's worth mentioning that he DOES have a very solid match between his good MUs and his good results, unlike most characters around him who usually just have one or the other (Rosa and Pika with results, Sonic-ish and Mario with MU spreads).

The thought seems hella alien to me, because I can't think of any characters Ness particularly invalidates and all of his character traits don't actually seem to make him top tier in a vacuum, but comparatively speaking... I'm not sure what to think now. It's true that characters like Fox and Luigi have similarly seemingly crippling flaws in their gameplan whilst still being considered potential top 5 (recovery and mobility respectively for the most part).

Have we fallen into the same old trap of under-estimating our character because we see all the little flaws that other people "don't"?

I don't know what to think really. I'm probably horrifically wrong. I know I've always kinda been caught in the middle between many Ness mains claiming he's bottom of top tier or high tier and non-Ness mains calling him potential top 5 - I've always seen Ness as around the 7th mark myself, because If I were forced to order top 10, this is probably how I would do it:




Like, those are probably the top 10 characters in the game right now. I made a big post about it on the CCI thread, I'll pull it up for you all later. But it's all worth considering.

 

[ROBnWatch]

This small argument is yet another reason I'm not all hyped about tiers. They start fueds.

I'm not against tiers either though, just don't much care for them. I mean, this is my thought on it:

If R.O.B. (or any of my mains for that matter) ever sunk down to the worst character in the game, at the very bottom of the tier list, I don't care. You can't prevent me from playing a character that I think is really fun. And that's usually how I pick my mains. How much fun can I have with the character, while knowing what I'm doing with said character. Just my opinion.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

To be honest, I don't really follow or participate in tournaments much these days. Those days are past me, so everything I say is just an old timers opinion.

I simply feel people just don't really know how to deal with Ness' strengths too well. Whenever I face a Ness in FG (I know... it's FG) I know exactly what to do, press shield and punish. What's he going to do? He HAS to come to me, he has no other option except throwing out a PKT which I can just run up shield that too. Even though this game does have a few more combos and some momentum-based gameplay, this game is still pretty defensive like Brawl and Ness isn't a defensive character at all. If you let Ness grab you with his t-rex arms and proceed to dthrow and fair your face off, or even worse get hit by his PKF (that is very easily beat by the shield button, spotdodge, roll behind, or simply short hop) so he can slowly run up to you with his baby legs and then grab you with his t-rex arms then you're at fault for letting him do that.

All those characters you listed have either a way to zone away Ness or be way too speedy for Ness to enjoy fighting. That's not even including characters like Yoshi, Village, Link/Toon Link, and even Duck Hunt from just keeping Ness away forever with physical projectile spam. And even though sword users are at their worst in this game, Ness still can't do anything against them if they're spacing game in on point (pun intended).

Don't get me wrong though, I know Ness is really good in this game now and it's a bit refreshing to finally have him as a very capable fighter. I did say I'd put him as mid-low A tier, which is still about top 15 in my eyes. The only thing I'm saying is that Ness doesn't exactly deserve to be above pretty much anyone you listed above there for the reasons I mentioned above which are by no means minors things a Ness player can ignore.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Ness is a 13 year old kid with psychic powers that he's probably just getting used to and probably barely understands, unless he knew/was taught about them earlier. And he probably didn't understand them all that well even then. On top of that, he saved the world using said powers, accompanied with baseball bats and yo-yos, along with the occasional slingshot. Give him a break.

Lol.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

I'm not feuding/arguing btw, those seem like more nasty words of what I'm actually trying to do which is simply discussing Ness so that we may better our understanding of him so that we can improve as players playing him. My intentions are good, I assure you, being the fact that I've been a Ness main for over 10 years so I just want to share my general knowledge/wisdom of all my Ness play.

I'm sorry if it seems like I was trying to start something that I wasn't, I'm just stating my opinions is all.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I know, I was just messing around. It was kind of a reply to your second paragraph (where you mentioned his puny arms and legs) if anything, just for laughs. I'm sorry if it felt I was attacking you.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

Ness and his crew look way younger than 13 though. Whenever I inform people who haven't played EB Ness' age they tend to be surprised, hell I was surprised myself.

My arms were like 2-3x the length of Ness' arms at 13, though I am kind of tall irl.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Ya, but I guess looks can be deceiving. I think it says somewhere on EarthBound Wiki that they're all around 12-13ish, but Poo is the oldest, being closer to 15-17ish.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

Patch change for Ness:
(Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/)

NESS
Dair sweetspot hitbox 3.5 units -> 3.9 units and stays out one more frame

All I have to say is pls just give me back my Brawl dair...
RIP in pieces Brawl dair.

 

[Noa.]

I've always said Ness is a very strong character in this game.

I'm not feuding/arguing btw, those seem like more nasty words of what I'm actually trying to do which is simply discussing Ness so that we may better our understanding of him so that we can improve as players playing him. My intentions are good, I assure you, being the fact that I've been a Ness main for over 10 years so I just want to share my general knowledge/wisdom of all my Ness play.

I'm sorry if it seems like I was trying to start something that I wasn't, I'm just stating my opinions is all.

A couple of points to what you said.

Uair, Bair, and nair are all safe on shield if you space them well and do them rising. And really Ness's grab leads to so much goodness that people who shield a lot against Ness are going to do very poorly.

Ness does not have a problem with speedy characters. Let's look at the fastest dash speeds in the game.

Sonic
Falcon
Fox
Little Mac
Zss
Greninja

Of all of these matchups, only sonic is bad for us. We beat zss and little Mac hard. We beat falcon. Fox we go even with, and Greninja is even or maybe in our favor.

Out of all of the fastest characters in the game, only one is a bad matchup. Please don't say that Ness has a problem with characters that have high mobility. That just isn't true.

Out of all our bad matchups:

Sonic
Sheik
Luigi
Rosa
Megaman

Only two of them are fast. Luigi and rosa are actually quite slow. Megaman is like medium mobility.

And Ness is one of the few characters that actually have more than one top player for representation.

Sheik has a bunch
Diddy has mvd and zero
Luigi has no one
Rosa has Dabuz
Falcon has no one
Pika has Esam
Fox has Larry and mega fox
Zss has Nick riddle choco and nairo
Wario has abadango
Yoshi has no one
Sonic hasn't had a player in the top 8 in the past two nationals. Though static manny made 9th at both.
Ness has Fow and Shaky

So only Sheik, Diddy, zss, fox, and Ness have more than one top player that places well.

It shouldn't be surprising that people think he's a really good character. And he is definitely high tier. I expect people to put him in the 4 to 8 range. Anything lower than that is just a tragedy really.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Is that Down Air buff all we got? Eh, I suppose it doesn't matter. Ness is already pretty good where he is.

I just need R.O.B.'s old Up-Throw back.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Hey guys, Ness is part of the current conquest. This time, he's got an entire team with him. It's the 90s Revival! Who will win?

1990-1992: Marth, Yoshi, Kirby, King Dedede, Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario, and Sonic.
VS
1992-1994: Ness, Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Fox, and Falco.
VS
1996-1998: Pikachu, Sheik, Ganondorf, Charizard, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo.

Let's all help Ness and co. win!!!

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

As much as I love Ness, I also love Mewtwo...I'm going to sit out on this one. I'd prefer one of the latter two to win.

 

[ROBnWatch]

As much as I love Ness, I also love Mewtwo...I'm going to sit out on this one. I'd prefer one of the latter two to win.

Suit yourself and don't let people make decisions for you. Just last conquest I had to make a choice between R.O.B. and Villager, and I ultimately chose R.O.B. due to the fact that on my personal tier list, he's higher than everyone else.

 

[AirshBornely]

Hey guys, Ness is part of the current conquest. This time, he's got an entire team with him. It's the 90s Revival! Who will win?

1990-1992: Marth, Yoshi, Kirby, King Dedede, Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario, and Sonic.
VS
1992-1994: Ness, Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Fox, and Falco.
VS
1996-1998: Pikachu, Sheik, Ganondorf, Charizard, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo.

Let's all help Ness and co. win!!!

I accidentally contributed to the 1990-1992 team because I'm more for team 1992-1994 because , but I guess I'll keep helping the first team with and

 

[ROBnWatch]

Traitor...

Lol. Suit yourself. Good luck against the PSI Powerhouse and his posse.