The Street Fighter's Guide to Smash

[MetalMusicMan]

Hey guys, in preparation for Melee being at Evo 2013, Hylian and I put this guide together in hopes of educating the FGC on the basics of Smash and Melee.

I have it posted on the Cross Counter TV site, and I'll also be submitting it to all of the major FGC news sites like Shoryuken and Eventhubs.

http://crosscounter.tv/the-street-fighters-guide-to-smash/

 

[Revven]

This was a fantastically well made video; I'm really impressed by both the production value and clear speaking voice provided to explain what's going on in the footage.

I'm more also surprised how this just appeared out of nowhere, too. Really good job! Hope it makes its rounds on eventhubs and SRK.

 

[Hylian]

Yeah MMM has great narration. Glad you enjoy it!

 

[MetalMusicMan]

This was a fantastically well made video; I'm really impressed by both the production value and clear speaking voice provided to explain what's going on in the footage.

I'm more also surprised how this just appeared out of nowhere, too. Really good job! Hope it makes its rounds on eventhubs and SRK.

Thank you! I've submitted it to Eventhubs and Shoryuken, so it should end up there soonish (sometimes it takes them a little bit). Regarding it coming out of nowhere, I tried to keep it pretty under wraps, but I've had the idea since the Melee Evo announcement. It just took a long, long time to coordinate and put together, haha.

Yeah MMM has great narration. Glad you enjoy it!

We're getting a drink some time, you and I

 

[Raziek]

Good **** guys, that's a really well made video.

 

[WindMajor]

This is absolutely fantastic.

 

[Espy Rose]

Meh.

 

[clowsui]

Espy you're ****ing infuriating.

MMM already knows that you think the video is "meh" because of the BBR thread, but then you went OUT OF YOUR WAY TO SAY IT AGAIN WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT?

Either you're trolling or you actually don't like it for legitimate reasons, because I don't believe you're that much of a scumbag. If it's the first this is a garbage troll and if it's the second how about you give some constructive criticism?

 

[Juushichi]

You are reacting too much to this, clowsui. Lol.

Espy is a hater of various things for whatever reason. Who cares. Don't let the equivalent of a antagonistic (at best) shrug set you off, lol.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well, if Raziek can freely comment with pretty much the same thing here and on the BBR thread, then I don't see why I can't. Would it be fair for someone to jump on him because he basically didn't give any constructive criticism either, especially given that he didn't do it for the BBR thread as well? Of course not. Way to jump way ahead of yourself. Any further and you'd hit Tokyo or something.

In any case, best to keep those thoughts to yourself. I'd rather not see the thread get derailed because you couldn't control yourself. If you don't like my opinion, then you're free to use that shiny ignore option that this forum offers.

 

[MimicMew]

Well, if Raziek can freely comment with pretty much the same thing here and on the BBR thread, then I don't see why I can't. Would it be fair for someone to jump on him because he basically didn't give any constructive criticism either, especially given that he didn't do it for the BBR thread as well? Of course not. Way to jump way ahead of yourself. Any further and you'd hit Tokyo or something.

In any case, best to keep those thoughts to yourself. I'd rather not see the thread get derailed because you couldn't control yourself. If you don't like my opinion, then you're free to use that shiny ignore option that this forum offers.

Well, the difference is that Raziek was being supportive of a community member's effort to help the community, whereas you're just being a **** for no apparent reason. Of course your post, and attitude, are going to annoy a few people. You can expect them to react to it differently than how they do to posts like Raziek's (even though he is guilty of showing support in more than one thread).

"In any case, best to keep those thoughts to yourself." Maybe you should follow this advice whenever you don't have anything to say other than "Meh".

That aside, thanks for putting in the time to make this video, MMM and Hylian. It reminded me of Wak's videos, especially the falcon combo from the SHFFL section (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE&t=5m46s & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjfzExt_TTE&t=16m11s).haha. =] I really hope this video gets more people to take interest in the melee/smash scene!!!

 

[Espy Rose]

I can post what I want in here. That much isn't going to change, and especially not with people like you, who think you're really going to persuade me otherwise.

It's not a crime to express my distaste over something. If it was, I'd have been banned from Smashboards long, long ago. Accept that disliking something is also a valid justification for posting and move on.

 

[Hylian]

It's not a crime, but it's certainly rude and not constructive in the slightest. We spent a lot of time on this purely out of our love for the smash community. What exactly don't you like about it?

 

[SpiderMad]

Really great job. I thought I saw some PBNJ video of MMM, thought your voice changed/didn't match-up with this video. Only possible faults was short hopping/fast-falling obviously being mentioned twice, and the option of get-up attack not being mentioned. Then there's all the "extra" details one could nit-pick over not being talked about like light shielding: but sweating over the small stuff would make the video long and obnoxious.

 

[clowsui]

Apologies to Espy. Hylian and MMM are friends of mine and I got a little too riled because I know that they put a lot of hard work into this.

It's not a crime, but it's certainly rude and not constructive in the slightest. We spent a lot of time on this purely out of our love for the smash community. What exactly don't you like about it?

This is more along the lines of what I wanted to say.

Also SpiderMad I think they did the SH+FF twice thing well =) the second time was more in-depth and an application, the first time was a system mechanics kind of thing. Speaking of that in-depth kinda stuff, I think shieldgrabbing and wavedashing (particularly as an OOS option) could have been given treatment like DD'ing. Though if this is a "Street Fighter player/viewer's guide" then that's not entirely necessary.

 

[Espy Rose]

@Clow: Hylian is a friend of mine too. Sure as heck didn't stop me.

It's just not all that interesting Hylian. Had this been made a few years earlier then maybe I'd be more invested in it, but it didn't inspire any sentiment of "job well done" in me. It feels like this should've been made some time ago, and seeing it only now kinda just leaves a lazy vibe on me after it's all over. It also felt incomplete, dry, and "rambly" towards the latter half.

Overall, it just felt like a waste of my time. It just didn't impress.

And I don't care if it's rude. It's how I feel about it, and I'll make it known. As an aside, it still kinda makes me chuckle that I'm under fire for saying one thing, whereas someone else posted before me with the same level of constructive-ness in their message and got off scott-free.

 

[Hylian]

@Clow: Hylian is a friend of mine too. Sure as heck didn't stop me.

It's just not all that interesting Hylian. Had this been made a few years earlier then maybe I'd be more invested in it, but it didn't inspire any sentiment of "job well done" in me. It feels like this should've been made some time ago, and seeing it only now kinda just leaves a lazy vibe on me after it's all over. It also felt incomplete, dry, and "rambly" towards the latter half.

Overall, it just felt like a waste of my time. It just didn't impress.

And I don't care if it's rude. It's how I feel about it, and I'll make it known. As an aside, it still kinda makes me chuckle that I'm under fire for saying one thing, whereas someone else posted before me with the same level of constructive-ness in their message and got off scott-free.

You didn't make it known until I explicitly asked you. You just said "Meh". I'm not sure when you got super passive aggressive, but I really don't remember that quality in you. I'm sorry you felt the video was a waste of your time.

And I don't care if it's rude. It's how I feel about it, and I'll make it known. As an aside, it still kinda makes me chuckle that I'm under fire for saying one thing, whereas someone else posted before me with the same level of constructive-ness in their message and got off scott-free.

I'm not even sure what to say to this aside from that this is one of the most childish things I've ever heard you say.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Also SpiderMad I think they did the SH+FF twice thing well =) the second time was more in-depth and an application, the first time was a system mechanics kind of thing. Speaking of that in-depth kinda stuff, I think shieldgrabbing and wavedashing (particularly as an OOS option) could have been given treatment like DD'ing. Though if this is a "Street Fighter player/viewer's guide" then that's not entirely necessary.

By far the hardest thing was sitting around and deciding what NOT to put in, lol. I knew that it couldn't be too much or no one would watch it or learn anything, so I tried to simplify everything as much as possible. The funniest thing though is that when I was talking about the ATs with Hylian, literally every time we'd talk about cutting one, it would remind us of something else that we thought we should put in, lol. At one point, we just had to stop and laugh at how much stupidly intricate stuff there is to go over when it comes to advanced tactics in Melee, haha.

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't feel particularly invested in the second comment Jordan. It was a passing thought if anything. Call it childish if you want though, it doesn't bother me.

Things change though. I'm just tired.

 

[oksas]

espy johns

 

[Espy Rose]

They're the best ones.

 

[SpiderMad]

By far the hardest thing was sitting around and deciding what NOT to put in, lol. I knew that it couldn't be too much or no one would watch it or learn anything, so I tried to simplify everything as much as possible. The funniest thing though is that when I was talking about the ATs with Hylian, literally every time we'd talk about cutting one, it would remind us of something else that we thought we should put in, lol. At one point, we just had to stop and laugh at how much stupidly intricate stuff there is to go over when it comes to advanced tactics in Melee, haha.

I'm on the rocks now of my idea on all this. Your video's purpose was to give a "general understanding" to some "Street fighter person who hasn't played Melee", and it did its job. But I just have that craving that everyone is wanting: where you got the skills and stuff to really do make that EPIC VIDEO of blowing people away by really describing the intricate and advanced stuff. If you did make a second video where it did detail everything, light shielding, dash cancelling, and even character specific stuff: I think not only would that serve for the same purpose as teaching people who want to learn the game like Wak's video series but would do the best job of sparking people's/the fighting game people's interest and getting rid of their main doubts that it's a simple casual game. Especially since your first video is going to be spread around, if they want to learn more you need to have links to Wak's videos and if you made your own of the more advanced stuff then you already know that they like your editing style and all that.

I did a speech in my speech class on Melee, the system you needed, the stages that were usually banned, knowing how the tier list/match up chart works. People's interest were sparked the most after I was done and they wondered how Jigglypuff was top tier, and I could still only give them details that were bland without video to back it up. But that's what people want to see, they want to know why and how this game gets in-depth.

 

[Revven]

SpiderMad, pretty sure other people are already working on completely redoing Wak's AHTP video in higher production values and etc.

 

[Hylian]

I'm on the rocks now of my idea on all this. Your video's purpose was to give a "general understanding" to some "Street fighter person who hasn't played Melee", and it did its job. But I just have that craving that everyone has where you got the skills and stuff to really do make that EPIC VIDEO of blowing people away by really describing the intricate and advanced stuff. If you did make a second video where it did detail everything, light shielding, dash cancelling, and even character specific stuff: I think not only would that serve for the same purpose as teaching people who want to learn the game like Wak's video series but would do the best job of sparking people's/the fighting game people's interest and getting rid of their main doubts that it's a simple casual game.
I did a speech in my speech class on Melee, the system you needed, the stages that were usually banned, knowing how the tier list/match up chart works. People's interest were sparked the most after I was done and they wondered how Jigglypuff was top tier, and I could still only give them details that were bland without video to back it up. But that's what people want to see, they want to know why and how this game gets in depth.

I wouldn't be opposed to making another video going really into the intricate stuff. I'm pretty confident in my knowledge of melee and MMM has amazing editing/narration skills so maybe we could continue this past just a basic understanding of the game. It wouldn't be very soon though, doing this is a ton of work and I can probably safely say for MMM and myself that it's only a maybe depending on how much we want to make another video. I would also probably get a gamecube USB adapter considering we had to do all of this with Xbox controllers and it was very, very difficult lol. I think it might be more effective/easier for us to do a series of shorter videos explaining various things but who knows. No promises on anything, other people might want to do something like this as well.

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

you should split some of the more advanced techs into different videos and compile them into a playlist
some people wouldnt find 20 min plus videos to be accessible
btw good work on the vid
i like the way you tried to visually compare certain situations to streetfighter with the montages and everything
showing similarities like that is cool and helpful for people trying to learn either game
edit: maybe have char specific vids?

edit2: also maybe you could note that in smash chars aren't forced to face each other so the concept of crossing someone up is entirely different. in fact oos things are a whole other realm that could use some extensive discussion

 

[TreK]

Hmm, you should have asked Prog, because we're basically doing the same video. Not for permission ah, but for insight.

Some design decisions differed between the 2 versions (namely not including the controls for the moves, the inclusion of a summary of the character mechanics in the top tier, the length of the video, and making the video atemporal so it could still be watched after EVO). It could have been good to discuss the differences and come up with a single video.

As someone who's not from Melee, my role was to point out things that look obvious to Melee players and worthy of an explanation to basically everybody else, which is important when the target audience is in that second category.

Edit : Oh and my goal before I joined forces with Prog was to make the video for EVO too, but even then keeping it under wraps seemed like a bad idea to me : I contacted a few of the authors from SRK to ask them what they wanted to see in the video, give me a template and conditions to work with, and make sure that the video actually gets posted on their front page instead of posting it and asking for it afterwards.

 

[Hylian]

We weren't aware someone was making a video similar to this in the first place. This wasn't meant to shelf any other projects people had regarding the content of the video, I'm glad to hear prog is/was working on something similar. MMM enjoys producing content like this(check out his SF4 Oni guide for example, which was posted on the front page of SRK etc etc) and we just thought it would be a really cool thing to do for both communities.

I competed in Evo 2007 in melee and had a ton of fun despite the rules being kind of silly, I enjoyed watching all of the other fighting games as well and can't wait for Evo 2013 . Personally I hope that at least some FG players see this video and get some enjoyment and hype out of smash since I will sure as hell be enjoying watching their games.

 

[Revven]

The video made it onto Eventhubs but not SRK yet.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

The guide's on Shoryuken now, and RedRapper very graciously gave us some love in the article.

http://shoryuken.com/2013/04/02/the-street-fighters-guide-to-smash-bros-by-metalmusicman/

 

[BSeeD]

Damn, some people are really annoyed by life...

I don't understand why someone can criticize a video this nice
U stepped up and did what other smashers have been too lazy to do for years, give a global melee understanding to FGC players.

Maybe some things are missing or some things are too much, but hey, this had to be done before EVO, and you did the job pretty well.

If I had to say one thing about it though - and I want to say it cause I'm pretty sure it's gonna be very useful and constructive about what I think - I'll probably say :

"MEH", and go watch some MLP, coz I'm a boss.

 

[Dinowulf]

That's some real respect right there on what you and Hylian did. I've been a gamer of Street fighter/Smash Since both of the debut's but never really compared the two. Greta job

 

[pokemongeof]

This was great! Although I don't play Street Fighter, I really connected!

 

[Juggleguy]

I thought you guys did a great job of containing the video within a certain scope -- enough information to make an impact on casuals/FGCs who want to learn Melee, and not too much information to scare someone away. Well done.

 

[Hylian]

I thought you guys did a great job of containing the video within a certain scope -- enough information to make an impact on casuals/FGCs who want to learn Melee, and not too much information to scare someone away. Well done.

Thanks! That really was the hardest part for us.

 

[michael_li]

brawl is a **** game. melee is dope.

 

[MrHazuki]

Good video.

 

[JU4N]

Wow! I'm surprised this isn't receiving more praise. This is an amazing video; high quality, right scope, and very well spoken. I love how you managed to succinctly capture some complex nuances with little addenda and helpful subordinate clauses to the sentences. Melee is a difficult system to do justice to, but I'm blown away by the effort put forth here.

 

[AXE 09]

Wow this was really great. Excellent job!!