The SSB Poll Lounge: DLC mode engaged

[Shorts]

#WouldMain

but it needs to be a Chihuahua + Tabby duo

 

[SmashChu]

Best Chances​

Mewtwo, Dixie Kong, Chrom Pac-Man, Miis, Little Mac​

​

The first three pretty much go without saying IMO. They each have a strong quality going for them. Mewtwo being who he is, the publicity he's recently gotten, Sakurai's comments, his position as an old vet and as popular as he is. Dixie's a once planned character, and a decently popular choice. Chrom is an international character from FE, who's in the latest FE title, and is generally well received (despite what Smashboards would like you to believe). The last three, well, you know.

​

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Not sure how you can justify putting Mii and Pac-Man that high up when they are at the bottom rung of your poll. Sakurai has also said Namco characters wont get any special treatment which just kills Pac-Man. Pac-Man is barely requested in Japan (beaten by Tales characters). Mii is still a wild guess.

I agree with the rest. Just not those two.

 

[jaytalks]

​

Not sure how you can justify putting Mii and Pac-Man that high up when they are at the bottom rung of your poll. Sakurai has also said Namco characters wont get any special treatment which just kills Pac-Man. Pac-Man is barely requested in Japan (beaten by Tales characters). Mii is still a wild guess.

I agree with the rest. Just not those two.

the last three were in that rumor leak before E3 that got Wii Fit Trainer right. I think thats why they are list under best chances.

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, and I'm a believer in that rumor, because it's too crazy not be a coincidence

If not for that rumor, Miis would probably be in small chance, Pac Man in 50/50, and Little Mac in Decent Chance

 

[RavenKingSage]

I hope that guy gets the Mii thing wrong. Miis in Smash would just be so lame.

 

[jaytalks]

Yeah I hope the rumor is false as well.

 

[SmashChu]

Yeah, and I'm a believer in that rumor, because it's too crazy not be a coincidence

If not for that rumor, Miis would probably be in small chance, Pac Man in 50/50, and Little Mac in Decent Chance

Not to start an argument here, but the problem with the rumor is that there is no documentation that he ever had a source and the rumor said the characters were to be revealed at E3 and they weren't. The only thing that has kept it alive was the WFT though I've heard another member say that he had seen people request the character before.

I think 50/50 is being very generous. He performs as well as Ghirahim who is in a tier below him. I think in Japan, he performs worse than Ghirahim and is barely mentioned at all. The only thing that has been going for him is that Namco is developing the game, but Sakurai has said Namco doesn't get special treatment and to add in another third party, it would have to be a special situation. All this coupled with his limited abilities makes his chances very unlikely. I think Pac-Man's chances are greatly overstated.

 

[Shorts]

Well, I'm not changing my opinion. You haven't told me anything I didn't already know. Just placing my chips where I think they go.

Sakurai is notorious for changing his opinion/not giving the full truth. Look at Mega Man. Remember when he was "practically deconfirmed" by that interview where Sakurai said how hard it would be to include him? The "Namco get's no special treatment" sounds like the same thing. Plus, I don't believe they don't get any special treatment. Frankly.

 

[SmashChu]

Well, I'm not changing my opinion. You haven't told me anything I didn't already know. Just placing my chips where I think they go.

Sakurai is notorious for changing his opinion/not giving the full truth. Look at Mega Man. Remember when he was "practically deconfirmed" by that interview where Sakurai said how hard it would be to include him? The "Namco get's no special treatment" sounds like the same thing. Plus, I don't believe they don't get any special treatment. Frankly.

That interview was very general. Here is what he actually said. Emphasis is mine. LINK

I can't say that it's entirely out of the realm of possibility that some Capcom character could appear in the next Smash Bros. The big problem, though, comes from the idea of trying to get characters from a completely different universe to fit with the style that has been dictated by Nintendo's characters in a fighting game.



"In fact, I actually think it's a miracle that we got Smash Bros. and all the Nintendo characters to work together in the first place. Especially when you bring Pokemon into the mix and a lot of the complications that are caused by that being an almost completely different entity on its own, it's really something. So this is something that obviously will come up more as we get started on the new Smash Bros. development, but keeping those things in mind I think is important."

It should also be noted that this interview happened in 2011, before Smash even started development. Now, let's compare with the Namco interview.

Of particular interest is whether Namco Bandai characters, like the cast of Tekken, Pac-Man or the Tales RPG series, will be prioritized, since the two Smash Bros. games are being developed by an all-star team of Namco developers. That answer, according to series creator Masahiro Sakurai, is "no."



"Just because the game is being cooperatively developed with Namco Bandai involved, that doesn’t at all mean that they’d be given any special consideration for having characters in the game," Sakurai said. "Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation."

This interview was made at E3 2013 with development lasting a year and a half. His response is more clear and direct. He has also chosen the roster verse in 2011 where he said he will be focusing on Kid Icarus: Uprising's development (having trouble finding the interview). What is the same between both interviews is that he's negative on third party characters. In the first one, the interviewer could have asked about Konami or Tecmo characters and you would have had a similar response. Here, he is specifically talking about Namco.

The reason the interview is important is that Pac-Mans sole reason for even being considered a candidate was that Namco was making the game. He was not even a serious choice until then. But when you look at the whole, there is very little working in his favor. On your poll, he is 18th. There may not be more than 15 characters, so with 3 already chosen, it would be hard for any character not in the top 15 (with the exceptions of choices like Takamaru). Also, if you look at Japan, he not even in the C Tier characters, which means he's not in the top 13 (probably lower). In Japan, Namco discussion is more focused on Tales and Pac-Man rarely comes up at all. His popularity base is in the US and it's awful here. Assuming that third party play by the same rules, he doesn't have enough popularity to warrant his inclusion. Heck, he's beaten by Banjo & Kazooie who can't be in the game (and everyone knows that). Regardless, third parties don't work by the same rules and Sakurai has clearly said "it would have to be a very special situation" which tells us that the inclusion has to be above and beyond. Sonic and Megaman were both the most requested inclusions in Brawl and SSB4 respectivly which is why they are in. Also, Megaman was more popular during Brawl than Pac-Man is now. After Sonic was shown off, Megaman immediately became the topic of discussion. After Megaman was shown off, Pac-Man did not see a big bump if any. The only kind of special situation Pac-Man has is that he is owned by the company developing the game. Sakurai has mentioned in the same interview that Namco characters get no special treatment at the same time saying that it needs to be a special situation to add a character. This tells us that being a Namco character is not a special situation. Pac-Man as a chose was only reasonable because Namco made the game. If anyone else made the game, Pac0Man would not even be on the list. To add insult to injury, Pac-Man has no unique abilities that the Smash cast doesn't have. He eats, but 4 characters do that. He rolls, but Sonic and Jigglypuff already do that. Dillon also does the same thing but better. He can but bounce but Bowser and Yoshi have done that since Melee. What else can he do? Even Super Pac-Man from Pac-Man 2 is already covered though Wario. So in all of this, the issue with pac-Man is the only thing he offers to the game is he is owned by Namco. Once Sakurai said this didn't mean anything, it throws out Pac-Man's chances. He has weak, at best, popularity and no unique abilities.

Again, the point is Pac-Man is grossly overstated. I disagree putting him is Best chance and he isn't fit for Small chances either. The only thing giving him any chances has be taken away by the creator.

 

[IsmaR]

I understand people want to not count their chickens before they hatch/never say never. That's good, I myself do that.

But I distinctly remember succumbing to the same mindset when the "real roster leak" for Brawl happened. Denial of it because it wasn't what I had hoped for, didn't meet my demands, included things I didn't like, etc.. While I still remain neutral for the most part in the current rumor, I can see why Shortie takes the stance he does. I don't necessarily agree with the rumor alone being the only reason to list the characters as shoo-ins, but it's his belief and I respect it.

 

[BKupa666]

Not to fan the flames on this debate, but I think the odds of someone guessing the Wii Fit Trainer before SSB4 were about as good as the odds of someone guessing there would be a three-piece Dragoon item before Brawl.

 

[Shorts]

Not to fan the flames on this debate, but I think the odds of someone guessing the Wii Fit Trainer before SSB4 were about as good as the odds of someone guessing there would be a three-piece Dragoon item before Brawl.

AND don't forget about the Villager being practically deconfirmed, and even Megaman having a "meh" from Sakurai in that 2011 interview.

 

[SmashChu]

Not to fan the flames on this debate, but I think the odds of someone guessing the Wii Fit Trainer before SSB4 were about as good as the odds of someone guessing there would be a three-piece Dragoon item before Brawl.

It's always harder to guess items because there is no frame of reference and not a lot of thought goes into it. The Dragoon guy also revealed a lot of stuff, not just that. The "leak" only said characters, gave us no info about them, got a name wrong, and was never a source until after the fact. The rumor is shaky at best. It seems more plauable it was a lucky guess. The reason people think it is true is because they don't believe in coincidences. What else does the leak have going for it? Let's count the issues shall we

• The leak only gave us character names. If they knew who was going to be in, why didn't he know anything else like how they look or the stages in the game. How come there was no leak for other Nintendo game? A leaker had access to the characters names but nothing else?
• If he knew who was in, why did he get Villager's name wrong? He would have known the correct name.
• The rumor said the characters were to be revealed at E3, but there were only the first 3.
• If this guy knew beforehand, why not just post it? Why wait until after the fact. He claimed it was because he couldn't verify the sources but posted another E3 rumor which he himself said was unlikely because of the source.
• He also came here for damage control after E3

Let's not forget what I posted above which makes Pac-Man VERY unlikely. Again, people beleive this because they can't believe it could be a coincidence but there is no reason it couldn't be. It seems like a lucky guess when you consider that he posted a source after he was right which suggest he was right and ran with it.

AND don't forget about the Villager being practically deconfirmed, and even Megaman having a "meh" from Sakurai in that 2011 interview.

Read the interview again, Sakurai didn't have a "meh" reaction to Megaman. The interviewer asked about Capcom characters in general and his reaction was the same if they had asked about Blizzard characters. He had not considered any characters at that point.

 

[BKupa666]

I acknowledge the very real chance that this leaker could be trolling; you'd think that if he was trolling, he'd predict characters more obvious than the Trainer and Villager so as to bait more users initially, but the possibility still exists. That said, even if this leaker weren't as sketchy as he was, I don't think this leak's doubters would be convinced anyway. For every gullible fool eating up every leak they see, there are users who will find something with which to denounce every leaker they see, and who will pass off a leak's confirmation as coincidence; they avoid getting duped at all this way, but risk missing needles in a haystack in the process.

I have little investment in the leak at all, and would actually hate for it to be true due to disliking two of the three characters (and considering the third a lock anyways). Even so, if I were looking for reasons to disconfirm it, I wouldn't settle for those items, because...

• The leaking of exclusively names doesn't disconfirm any given leak; other than the Dragoon item, ChaosZero leaked solely names, in the form of "X newcomer is in the game," and "Y veteran is returning." In contrast, leaking more than names doesn't validate a leak, and can often be the product of a troll attempting to seem more knowledgeable than they are...take the guy who leaked "Yoshi's fat new friend Debu, evolving Ridley and Retro-designed K. Rool" to GameFAQs in January for example.
• This is probably the item of which I'm most leery, but it's not too big a stretch to say that the source shared the Villager's name as 'Animal Crossing Boy,' or elaborated upon the Villager in such a way so as to avoid vagueness, as was the problem with Roy when Melee's roster was leaked (everyone assumed it was Roy Koopa). I'm more willing to believe in a relatively unimportant slip-up here than a troll guessing one character half of NeoGAF had ruled out due to Capcom being Capcom, one almost everyone had ruled out due to Sakurai himself (and who faced competition from Tom Nook, K.K. Slider and even Resetti to boot), and one no one aside from a single GameFAQs joker in 2010 had guessed, anywhere.
• E3 reveals are far from set in stone, hence Tropical Freeze being pulled from last year's presentation and Miyamoto revealing basically all mainstream titles in press conferences after E3 2008 due to wanting to take the conference in a more casual direction last-minute with the likes of Wii Music.
• This is another example of the guy doing himself no favors by being sketchy, and yet, it doesn't necessarily invalidate him. He did post each of the six characters in a NeoGAF pre-E3 prediction thread, unedited, as insurance in case what he considered an unlikely leak was proven true...this is a tidbit I don't see many anti-leak users mention. Also, for reference, ChaosZero waited until after the Stage Builder was revealed on the DOJO before posting the rest of his leak, instead of just throwing it all out there to begin with and being called a phony (which happened anyways). A guy claiming he just got off the phone with his uncle at Nintendo to post a leak isn't any more believable, IMO.
• Plenty of leakers, real and fake, stick around to clarify upon or elaborate on their content. That's isn't exclusive to this leaker at all.
  
  Regarding Pacman, I find him an unsavory anachronism in denial, but that's exactly why he could weasel his way in...being generically 'iconic' to the point of more people recognizing him than Mario can easily be pulled out of Sakurai's arse as a 'special circumstance.' And honestly? As much as many high-profile speculators here dislike him, it would be a case like the Trainer where people complain at first, then accept him because he's 'cool' or 'unique.' Namco not getting priority doesn't rule out the possibility of them getting characters; personally, I think it moreso rules out the likes of Lloyd, who have even less going for them. Let's not forget, Sakurai is at least prompting gaming journalists asking for Pacman to come up with Final Smashes for him, whereas journalists who suggest characters like the Koopalings are merely told to keep the 3DS' limitations in mind. I don't consider the leak probable because of Pacman, I consider Pacman probable because of the leak.
  
  Just my two cents. It's basically me weighing the odds of him coincidentally guessing three characters ranging from questionable to hideously unlikely vs. the odds of him getting a single name (not description) wrong along with the reveal date, which he specified as 'scheduled,' not 'definite' anyways.

 

[SmashChu]

I acknowledge the very real chance that this leaker could be trolling; you'd think that if he was trolling, he'd predict characters more obvious than the Trainer and Villager so as to bait more users initially, but the possibility still exists. That said, even if this leaker weren't as sketchy as he was, I don't think this leak's doubters would be convinced anyway. For every gullible fool eating up every leak they see, there are users who will find something with which to denounce every leaker they see, and who will pass off a leak's confirmation as coincidence; they avoid getting duped at all this way, but risk missing needles in a haystack in the process.

I have little investment in the leak at all, and would actually hate for it to be true due to disliking two of the three characters (and considering the third a lock anyways). Even so, if I were looking for reasons to disconfirm it, I wouldn't settle for those items, because...

• The leaking of exclusively names doesn't disconfirm any given leak; other than the Dragoon item, ChaosZero leaked solely names, in the form of "X newcomer is in the game," and "Y veteran is returning." In contrast, leaking more than names doesn't validate a leak, and can often be the product of a troll attempting to seem more knowledgeable than they are...take the guy who leaked "Yoshi's fat new friend Debu, evolving Ridley and Retro-designed K. Rool" to GameFAQs in January for example.
• This is probably the item of which I'm most leery, but it's not too big a stretch to say that the source shared the Villager's name as 'Animal Crossing Boy,' or elaborated upon the Villager in such a way so as to avoid vagueness, as was the problem with Roy when Melee's roster was leaked (everyone assumed it was Roy Koopa). I'm more willing to believe in a relatively unimportant slip-up here than a troll guessing one character half of NeoGAF had ruled out due to Capcom being Capcom, one almost everyone had ruled out due to Sakurai himself (and who faced competition from Tom Nook, K.K. Slider and even Resetti to boot), and one no one aside from a single GameFAQs joker in 2010 had guessed, anywhere.
• E3 reveals are far from set in stone, hence Tropical Freeze being pulled from last year's presentation and Miyamoto revealing basically all mainstream titles in press conferences after E3 2008 due to wanting to take the conference in a more casual direction last-minute with the likes of Wii Music.
• This is another example of the guy doing himself no favors by being sketchy, and yet, it doesn't necessarily invalidate him. He did post each of the six characters in a NeoGAF pre-E3 prediction thread, unedited, as insurance in case what he considered an unlikely leak was proven true...this is a tidbit I don't see many anti-leak users mention. Also, for reference, ChaosZero waited until after the Stage Builder was revealed on the DOJO before posting the rest of his leak, instead of just throwing it all out there to begin with and being called a phony (which happened anyways). A guy claiming he just got off the phone with his uncle at Nintendo to post a leak isn't any more believable, IMO.
• Plenty of leakers, real and fake, stick around to clarify upon or elaborate on their content. That's isn't exclusive to this leaker at all.

I think your missing the big picture here. The reason these inconsistencies are important is because in any case we assume the leaker has official information and that the leaker would have some way to know it. So let's say that the leaker's source only knew the trailers and that's how he knew the characters. If that was the case, he would have known the characters names. He would have also seen the trailers themselves and would know other information. Let's go further. Let's say the leaker ONLY saw the character screens from the trailer (Villager comes to town thing). He would be able to describe what the characters look like which is especially important for WFT. Look at other leaks and they never know just a small piece of information but a lot of different information. They are usually confirmed by small information. As an example, a Street Fighter 4 leak (think it was Super) was confirmed because the leaker knew the name of Dhalsim's second ultra. The Dragoon leak was confirmed by the Dragoon of course. This leaker only knew the names. Furthermore, if we assume he had official information, than why was the name wrong? He would have a source who knew the exact name of the character because he had seen it in some way. So why the Villager's name is a small detail, it means a lot. I does the same thing as the rest of what I've been saying: though it into doubt. There is a lot of doubt, but people have trouble seeing it as a coincidence. Another poster said he saw WFT mentioned once or twice or it may not be as unusual as we think.
The whole posting is "He doesn't have any information that you and I don't have." This is why we have things like

• Why did he only know Smash and not other games
• Why did he only know the character names?
• Why was one of the characters names wrong.

Regarding Pacman, I find him an unsavory anachronism in denial, but that's exactly why he could weasel his way in...being generically 'iconic' to the point of more people recognizing him than Mario can easily be pulled out of Sakurai's arse as a 'special circumstance.' And honestly? As much as many high-profile speculators here dislike him, it would be a case like the Trainer where people complain at first, then accept him because he's 'cool' or 'unique.' Namco not getting priority doesn't rule out the possibility of them getting characters; personally, I think it moreso rules out the likes of Lloyd, who have even less going for them. Let's not forget, Sakurai is at least prompting gaming journalists asking for Pacman to come up with Final Smashes for him, whereas journalists who suggest characters like the Koopalings are merely told to keep the 3DS' limitations in mind. I don't consider the leak probable because of Pacman, I consider Pacman probable because of the leak.

First, Sakurai is very negative towards third party characters in general. In the developer interview, he said "I'm not going to let any character get into Smash." Clearly it's a high bar. Characters like Pokemon Trainer and WFT can be done because they are Nintendo characters. Pac-Man wont get the same pass and Sakurai has made it clear by saying the addition will have to be a "special situation." I've already discussed Pac's lack of uniqueness and popularity. The other thing to note is Sakurai adds characters that will make people want to play the game. Not only is there a general worldwide disinterest in Pac-man, there is also a few people who out right hate the character. So adding Pac-Man doesn't make sense and will make less sense for Sakurai as he doesn't want a lot of first party characters in the first place. You mention Lloyd which is funny as he is likely more wanted than Pac-Man in Japan.
The bold is why the leak is likely false. If the leak never happened, you wouldn't consider Pac-Man. So wouldn't that make the leak unlikely?

 

[BKupa666]

Shortie, let me know if this discussion of the leak is getting too far off topic, since as of now, it's only tangentially related to your poll due to citation of Pacman's ranking on it.

Anyways, on the contrary, I'm trying to evaluate as much as I can of the big picture here. The most obvious reason I can think of to disbelieve this leak, and one I haven't seen mentioned yet, is that, if all six newcomers were going to be revealed at E3, that would bring the grand total of revealed characters to a whopping and unrealistic fifteen, roughly one-third of any given fan roster. The other angle is that, playing the scenario that the leaker struck gold guessing WFT and wanted take advantage of his luck to fool everyone, why would two out of the three characters he shares post-E3 be quote-unquote 'unusual,' as opposed to believable? Why Pacman and Mii, as opposed to literally any other two characters on Shortie's poll from Low Tier up?

In terms of the leak itself, I went back and reread the leak's explanation on GameFAQs, which I believe gives it even more legitimacy. According to this explanation, Villager was named correctly as a leaked character; it's only in the leak recipient's joking pre-E3 roster prediction that he uses the name 'Animal Crossing Guy' (one of those aforementioned sketchy choices of his). I don't know why there's the expectation that the leaker would leak other games aside from Smash Bros., since that hasn't been an expectation placed on any leaker I've seen in the past, nor why he would have had to see the trailer to know of the revealed characters, since there are plenty of other feasible ways he could have known. Drawing parallels between ChaosZero and this guy, I'm calling WFT the equivalent of the Dragoon because no one could have predicted her...the most I've seen you and others offer on the matter has been to the tune of "I know a guy who knows a guy...who might have seen a few people suggest her once." I'd enjoy proof in that regard if it's not too much trouble. On that note, since my last post, I found a second thread mentioning the possibility of a Wii Fit character (though not the Trainer herself), in addition to the first (which, correction, was from 2008, not 2010). But back to ChaosZero, other than the detailed info about the Dragoon, his information was just as vague.

Wolf is in the game.
Falco is returning.
Ganondorf is returning.
Captain Falcon is returning.
Lucario is taking Mewtwo's Place.
Ness is returning.
Zelda can turn into Sheik.

Nothing about moves or descriptions, just acknowledgment that the characters exist. I don't recall any correct leaks that actually did describe moves pre-Brawl, except one about Olimar using a Pikmin-based whip-like move (which ended up being his Up Special), though there were plenty of fake ones pre-Brawl about Luigi using the Poltergust. As to Pacman being the reason the leak is unlikely, I don't know why, in reference to Shortie's poll, Pacman is the one who renders it unlikely when Mii is even lower ranked, in addition to having fewer vocal supporters and far more vocal haters. I'm guessing the answer to that is that he's third party, to which I regrettably say that Pacman being generically 'iconic' is all the reason Sakurai needs to handwave away all his counterpoints and consider him 'special.' I don't put much weight in the 'makes people want to play the game' point, since Smash Bros. is a kingmaker, legitimizing each and every character in it to the point where there are still people out there who want all of Melee's cut clones back, despite the backlash they faced. You can bet, if Pacman were revealed, every hater out there would either have a turnaround and, as they did with WFT, talk about how "Pacman is growing on them" or be silenced by the masses who adore literally whatever Sakurai throws at them.

 

[SmashChu]

I'll drop the leak topic, but if wish to discuss it further BKupa666, feel free to send me a PM. Good research though.

 

[Shorts]

I don't care, it's not Fire Emblem, and it's relevent to something I posted.

Would love to see other's version of my tiers though.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

You left Neku out of your newest survey.

 

[Shorts]

I'll add him to the next one I post in... three months. (This site allows free polls to only be up for six month intervals)

 

[SmashChu]

I don't care, it's not Fire Emblem, and it's relevent to something I posted.

Would love to see other's version of my tiers though.

I'm not sure people want to keep here me and BKupa go back and forth. I'll just close with some interesting this

It's interesting that you mention ChaosZero because I found this. Research on him and NyaseNya reveailed they knew a ton (the latter knew more). One reason I'm skeptical of rumors this early (not just this one) is that we only found out stuff near the end. I suspect these guys knew something because they had a friend who was playtesting.

As for the Big picture, what I mean is doubt. You can look at all those point individually, but they are all pointing to doubt. The things that kind of tipped me off was he didn't have a source until after he was right. People like NyaseNya knew stuff and put their ass on the line. Everything looks like this guy got a lucky guess and rolled with it. NyaseNya also knew when Sonic was going to be shown. This guy said they would be at E3 but weren't, so there is that.

That's kind of it. Feel free to respond but I wont say anymore. Like I said, people don't want to see us go back and forth, but if you want to talk about it, feel free to send me a PM.

As for your tier's shortie, I agree with almost everything. The only thing I disgree is placing Pac-Man so high. He really should be in the lowest category due to what I've said before (weak popularity in the west, no popularity in Japan, Sakurai's general attitude to third party characters). I guess the only other thing is switch King K Rool for Dixie, but that's a minor point.

I'll add him to the next one I post in... three months. (This site allows free polls to only be up for six month intervals)

As a side note, Sakurai has suggested that he has already made up his mind, so the information wont be very relevant. The last one is probably the best one. A Japanese pool would still be good since our info is so limited there. I have a friend who is going to teach in Japan and he's been there a few times for work and school. Just send me a PM of what you need.

 

[BKupa666]

Funnily enough, Pacman was at the center of a number of GameFAQs threads earlier today, mostly back-and-forth between people arguing about how Pacman's haters are all young Fire Emblem fans and how Pacman's situation as a third party character is comparable to those of Sonic and Mega Man...pfft.

NyaseNya was on the tip of my tongue during my previous bit about people getting blasted for posting leaks early (though honestly, that comes with the territory, based on how much s*** the community is fed regularly). A lot of the criticism she got also seemed to stem from her reveals being mainly unfavorable, such as that the roster would be only 35 characters (when most people were still predicting 40 and up >.>), as well as that the game would get delayed a second time. It makes me curious as to whether there are vague parallels to this new leaker, in the form of people criticizing him due to disliking Pacman and Mii as reveals. I do agree that her and ChaosZero were more credible based on objective criteria, however, particularly ChaosZero for having known both the Stage Builder and the Dragoon.

Now, for scattered thoughts. Another angle with which to look at this new leak is that the three revealed characters were legitimately leaked, while the other three were added onto the guy's prediction roster for whatever reason, be it trolling or perhaps blending in with the other roster predictions, all of which had five or so characters. Upon fact-checking, NyaseNya was behind leaking Olimar's Pikmin Chain, a detail referenced earlier. NyaseNya was also behind, as ChronoBound likes to say, "an obsession over Peach's physique and buttocks, specifically her buttocks." I'm content ending the leak discussion where it is unless something new arises, since I believe we've been relatively thorough, and also, attention should be brought back to character tiers if possible (I'll be getting to work on my own before too long).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Pacman's haters are all young Fire Emblem fans.

I don't quite understand this statement.

 

[BKupa666]

I don't quite understand this statement.

The gist of the argument was that young users unfairly dismiss Pacman as a relic from the arcade era and instead gravitate toward GameFAQs' favorite Fire Emblem characters, namely Tharja and Owain. Basically a "respect your elders" and "kids with their new-fangled gizmos" hybrid rant, if you will.

 

[IsmaR]

Hey hey hey, Tharja is legit. Shortie back me up here.

 

[Shorts]

Hey hey hey, Tharja is legit. Shortie back me up here.

Hey, yeah. She's legit, and that's how it is.

Also, Pac-Man isn't interesting to me. I would much prefer Tharja. Just, don't see that happening.

 

[Shorts]

Get ready for to fap to some numbers with me.

Posting 1600's character results within the hour.

 

[BKupa666]

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wow, look at all those numbers. I'm in complete shock and awe.

 

[Shorts]

Hey, I prefer irl to you hoes.

Here, Roy ****ed it up, once again

God Tier
· Mewtwo 1048

Top Tier
· King K. Rool 809
· Ridley 807

High Tier
· Roy 710

Mid Tier
· Little Mac (Punch Out) 675
· Krystal 610
· Bowser Junior 607

Low Tier
· Palutena 595
· Isaac (Golden Sun) 552
· Chrom 545
· Paper Mario 515

Bottom Tier
· Waluigi 497
· Dixie Kong 488
· Shulk (Xenoblade) 468
· Banjo & Kazooie 449
· Majora (Skull Kid) 434
· Ghirahim 418
· Pac-Man 414

Honerable Mentions
· Samurai Goroh 393

Everyone Else

Spoiler

· 2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles) 384

· Black Shadow 380
· Bomberman 375
· 6th Gen Pokemon 354
· Lyn 357
· Toad 331
· Rayman 328
· Mii (Wii Series) 325
· Lucina 319
· Super Mario RPG (Geno, Mallow) 312
· Zoroark 309
· Kingdom Hearts (Sora) 309
· Dark Samus 304
· Castlevania (Simon Belmont, Alucard, Dracula) 301
· Bayonetta 291
· Rosalina 279
· Takamaru (The Mysterious Musasame Castle) 279
· Pokemon Trainer (Johto) 271
· Ace Attorney (Phoenix Write) 271
· Kamek 270
· King Boo 268
· Doctor Mario 260
· Vaati 259
· Pokemon Trainer (Hoenn)258
· Medusa 257
· Claus (Masked Man) 255
· Eevee (and Eeveelutions) 254
· Balloon Fighter 251
· Midna 249
· Saki (Sin & Punishment) 248
· Tom Nook (Animal Crossing 245
· Viewtiful Joe 243
· Toon Zelda 242
· Wolf Link 238
· Tetra 235
· Final Fantasy (Chocobo, Black Mage, Moogle, Cloud, Lightning) 235
· Shy Guy 231
· Professor Layton 230
· Tales Series (Cless/Cress, Lloyd) 229
· Crono Trigger (Crono) 227
· Dillon (Rolling Western) 223
· Ashley 220
· Young Link 217
· Baby Mario & Luigi 216
· Pokemon Trainer (Kalos) 214
· Anna 210
· Dark Pit 210
· Magnus 206
· Ray MK (Custom Robo) 205
· Scribblenauts (Maxwell) 205
· Captain Syrup 192
· Deoxys 189
· Hades 189
· No More Hereos (Travis Touchdown) 189
· Daisy 185
· Mona 184
· Bandana Dee 184
· Knuckle Joe 182
· Pokemon Trainer N 182
· Pokemon Trainer (Sinnoh) 178
· Porky 176
· Meowth 175
· Slippy 174
· Black Knight 174
· Pokemon Trainer Villain (Rocket Plasma Galactic Aqua Magma) 172
· Andy (Advanced Wars) 171
· Fawful 169
· Street Fighter (Ryu, Chun Li, M. Bison) 169
· Conker's Bad Fur Day (Conker) 168
· Impa 167
· Funky Kong 166
· Kat & Ana 165
· Classic Link 162
· Prince Fluff 162
· Micaiah 162
· Starfy (The Legendary Starfy) 159
· Toon Ganondorf 156
· Tharja 156
· K.K Slider (Animal Crossing) 152
· Pichu 151
· Genesect 146
· Plusle & Minun 145
· 2nd Metal Gear Character (Raiden, Gray Fox) 143
· Robin (FE13 Avatar) 143
· Lip (Panel De Pon) 141
· Pokemon Champion Cynthia 139
· Viridi 139
· Baby Bowser 137
· Tingle 137
· Eirika 135
· Sylux 134
· Alex (Golden Sun) 133
· Soul Calibur (Nightmare, Ivy Valentine) 133
· Toon Sheik 132
· Mew 131
· Kumatora 129
· Hector 127
· Poo 126
· Darkrai 124
· Yarn Kirby 123
· Tiki 122
· Fiora (Xenoblade) 120
· Peppy 119
· Duck Hunt Dog 117
· Jimmy T. 116
· Ninja Gaiden (Ryu Hayabusa) 115
· Adeliene 113
· Ephraim 111
· Battletoads (Zitz) 110
· Jeff 109
· Ninten 108
· Elite Beat Agents 105
· Jill (Drill Dozer) 105
· Louie (Pikmin) 105
· Felix (Golden Sun) 104
· Matthew (Golden Sun) 104
· Paula 101
· Captain Rainbow 100
· Zael (The Last Story) 100
· Groose 99
· Blood Falcon 99
· Yarn Yoshi 97
· Resident Evil (Jill Valentine, Chris Redfeild, Leon Kennedy) 95
· Victini 94
· Mach Rider 94
· Mike Jones (Star Tropics) 94
· Tekken (Heihachi, Jin, Kazuya) 94
· Giygas 93
· KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) 93
· Dragon Quest (Slime) 90
· Gardevoir 87
· Eggplant Wizard 87
· Lanky Kong 86
· Jody Summer 86
· Flint 86
· Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight) 86
· Aeron (Pandora's Tower) 85
· Captain Trio / Alph, Charlie, Brittany (Pikmin 3) 80
· Phantom Zelda 82
· Meloetta 82
· Captain N 82
· Cranky Kong 81
· Leon 81
· Isa Jo (Sin & Punishment) 79
· Marx 72
· Eliwood 71
· Anthony Higgs 70
· Caeda 70
· Dunban (Xenoblade) 70
· Tempo (Harmo Knight) 70
· Excited Biker 69
· Andross 66
· Ana 65
· Panther 64
· Bubbles (Clu Clu Land) 64
· Muddy Mole (Mole Mania) 63
· NO THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS 63
· Mallo (Pushmo) 62
· Donkey Kong Junior 61
· Walhart 61
· Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness) 61
· Reyn (Xenoblade) 59
· Elincia 58
· Calista (The Last Story) 58
· Prince Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) 57
· Leaf 54
· Magolor 49
· Ashley Robbins (Trace Memory / Another Road) 47
· Gooey 45
· Sigurd 45
· Soren 45
· Sakura Samurai (Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword) 45
· Pico 44
· Orublon 43
· Deathborn 43
· Alice (Balloon Kid) 41
· Shake King 39
· Tiki Tong 36
· Stanly the Bugman 33
· Celice 33
· Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk) 32
· Kiddie Kong 28
· Daroach 27
· Hunter (Fossil Fighter) 27
· Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club pt. II) 26
· Heracles (Glory of Heracles) 26
· Labrador / Grey Tabby (Nintendogs + Cats) 26
· Urban Champion 26
· Dr. Stewart 23
· John Raimi (Geist) 23
· Narbarl 22
· Hero (Magc Starsign / Vacation) 22
· Prince Richard (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) 22
· Tamagon (Devil World) 22
· Demille (Tomato Adventure) 21
· Dr. Write (Sim City) 20
· Ryuta (Ouendan) 18
· Lark (PilotWings) 16
· Welt (Soma Bringer) 16
· Ryota Hayami (Wave Race) 15

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Honestly, I'm still surprised Roy is even doing this good at this point. A lot of people that really want him to return, that's given... Still shocked nonetheless that a clone from one Fire Emblem title is outdoing Little Mac. Beyond that, it seems like everything is about where it's expected to be.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

I'm personally quite surprised at how well Paper Mario, Chrom, Krystal, and Bowser Jr. are doing. And Little Mac and especially Isaac seem to losing popularity.

 

[Opossum]

Glad to see that Chrom's doing well. This shows, in my eyes, that the "expected, but not wanted" notion is pretty unfounded, considering this poll was for who people want.

 

[MagnesD3]

Go Krystal and Jr.

 

[MagnesD3]

Go Krystal and Jr.

 

[Shorts]

The thing that Chrom has, that Zoroark doesn't, is time and a personality. I think if we hadn't seen **** from Gen VI, we would have Zoroark probably doing as well as Goroh. Possibly even better. Chrom really has got the time on his side. Plus he's more personalbe in game than Zoroark.

These two have a lot off parallels, but ultimately there's a legitimae reason why one does better than the other.

/rant about the Smash4 "newbies"

 

[Autumn ♫]

I wish Vaati would do better...

 

[N3ON]

I'd like to see Isaac higher, but I really can't complain... his rank is still pretty great for a character who hasn't been playable, whether in Smash or in his own series, for ten years now. A little surprised at Roy and Krystal's popularity, but since I want to see both those characters as well I still can't complain.

And Jr's popularity shouldn't really be that surprising, he is popular elsewhere a lot more than he is here, people don't seem to realize that.

 

[DMurr]

I'm of the opinion that Roy is only as popular as he is because of the "don't know what you got 'til it's gone" mentality. I loved playing as him in Melee, was one of my favorites, but had he been in Brawl as a semi-clone character, I would bet that people would be putting him in Ike's spot as a potential to leave, with Ike being one of the ones still likely to stay. I'm surprised that Krystal is still as popular as she is, even though I see her as one of the most likely characters to get in.

 

[SmashChu]

Not too surprising. Nothing really changed between this and the last one. I'm not even sure anyone changed positions.

• Goroh fell. It's not to surprising. F-Zero characters haven't been too popular this time around.
• Third party characters seem to get a boost when one is announced. Sonic's announcement helped Megaman. pac-Man got a small jump but he is still in the bottom. Got a little closer to Ghirahim.
• Bowser Jr, Issac and Kyrstal are characters that are interesting. They are popular here but not overseas. They do well but might not do well given there are better worldwide candidates
• Roy is not surprising. People like Roy
• Same from Chrom. Where people expected Zoroark, people want Chrom. Probably helps FE:A is well received. If we get a new Pokemon, it might be gen 6.
• King K Rool is the most popular character worldwide (that is a newcomer). He is on the top here and Japan
• Palutena, Dixie and Shulk are a bit low. They will likely be helped by their Japanese popularity where they also have a big presence.
• We seem to talk about more characters here in the western world. May also be because Smash is the most popular in the US.