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The Source, Evolution, and Consequences of the Ledge Grab Rule

Overswarm

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Legend said:
"BBR" will refer to the Brawl Back Room, previously referred to as a collective SBR (now split into MBR and BBR for Melee and Brawl, respectively).

"planking" will refer to repeatedly grabbing the ledge with the intent to get a lead and to run out the timer so as to win with the least danger possible.

"LGL" will refer to "Ledge Grab Limit", the rule in discussion.
The LGL involves adding a limit to the amount of times you can grab the ledge; failure to stay under the limit will result in the loss of a game should the time run out. A common trend in many regions is the addition of a LGL into their ruleset. Many believe allowing free use of the ledge is too boring and/or too powerful for competitive play. The BBR as a whole is split on the issue with several supporters on either side of the debate.

While a TO is free to make the ruleset as he or she sees fit for their community for any reason, I would like to educate Smashboards on the source, consequences, and reasoning for the LGL in a competitive ruleset.

The Source and evolution of the LGL

The LGL rule came about to combat planking, specifically with the character Metaknight. Many found this strategy distasteful or anti-competitive and found a LGL to be a viable solution.

Over time, changes have occured due to this rule change. Of the three most prominent planking characters, Metaknight, Game & Watch, and Pit, Metaknight has been the most affected.

Since Metaknight's ability to plank is unmatched in Brawl it made many matchups like MK vs. Falco, Kirby, and practically all of the characters lower on the tier list very difficult for MKs opponents. Even moreso than usual! The addition of the LGL has showed at top level play it has skewed the matchup of Falco vs. MK to be on more even ground than it was before. In fact, Falco vs. Metaknight has been the primary matchup discussed with the addition of the LGL! Previously, MK could simply get a short lead and then Falco, having a very poor ledge game, would be at a strict disadvantage. One mistake on an approach generally meant death for the Falco, which meant many MKs only needed to get a lead to secure victory. Since the LGL, this has no longer been an issue and we've seen drastic changes in the dynamics of this matchup.

The amount of ledge grabs legal has differed from event to event, but if the number was low enough it had the same effect: you couldn't stay on the ledge with impunity, because the timer was then your enemy even if you were 3 stocks to 1.

As running the timer out is a powerful strategy when you have a strong lead, many Metaknight users found that they had other options. One straight-forward option is to merely plank at the end of a match when they have a lead with only 2 or 3 minutes left. With 50 ledge grabs or so you can easily accomplish this, thus not removing planking but rather delaying it. A more creative way that has been since popularized by M2K vs. Gnes and Meep is to glide under the stage on Smashville when you have a lead and force your opponent to approach in this manner. Mew2King's ledge grabs were incredibly low in number, and the LGL proved ineffective at stopping a similar style of play that is limited to Smashville. This has led to further discussion to rules that limit the gliding under a stage as an extension to the LGL.

The Consequences of the LGL

Whether you believe the LGL or its anti-gliding extensions are necessary or not, the consequences of implementing such a rule are very concrete and many of the consequences have already been observed.

1. Metaknight is weakened

While many would cheer at this, the artifical weakening of a character is nothing minor. This drastically changes Metaknight's ability in several matchups, and as such is a very heavy decision. Know that when you make this rule, you are singling out multiple players in your tournament and weakening their character. Ask yourself if you'd want a rule limiting projectiles or grabs by someone targetting your character before taking this lightly. Metaknight isn't the only character weakened, but is the most easily observed.

2. Other characters are strengthened

Again, nothing to scoff at. Falco receives the biggest boost of all, as the Metaknight matchup becomes more in his favor as Falco's biggest weakness is removed from the game. Other characters too are improved artificially against those that would use the ledge agains them. Pit can no longer shoot arrows from the ledge with impunity, while characters like Falco can shoot volleys of lasers you are forced to jump into even if you're in the lead and Diddy can set up a fortress of bananas and wait for you to get off the ledge. This creates a large change in many matchups.

3. You are making another path to victory possible

It is very possible to be forced to the ledge. Someone laying explosives, charging a smash, feinting an approach, banana locking, jab locking, laser locking, certain grab releases (especially on stages with multiple ledges like Norfair) or many other actions can force an opponent off the ledge and have them regrab. Done as a deliberate action, this will create an alternate path to victory. Should your opponent take note of how many times you grab the ledge, he can force you to the ledge more often than normal for the remainder of the match and win by letting the time run out even if you are at 3 stocks to his 1.

4. The ledge grab limit is not spread evenly

Many characters do not grab the ledge for any reason if at all possible, while others grab it frequently. Characters like Falco prefer to over-b towards the center of the stage, Snake generally drops from the sky, while other characters like Kirby, Ness, Metaknight, Lucario, or Ike often find it necessary to grab the ledge to improve their chances. Adding a LGL can be very unfair to some characters as it inadvertantly makes each of their recoveries bring them one step closer to a loss. Coupled with this is the fact that many characters, such as ROB, have trouble getting up from the ledge and must wait for a good opportunity. This results in more ledge grabs on average than one would expect.

5. They will find a way around it

As mentioned earlier, by banning a certain amount of ledge grabs, you're merely announcing it is the best strategy. If you add a 50 LGL rule, the best strategy is to get the lead when the timer is low enough for you to use 50 ledge grabs and then grab the ledge 49 times. Others will find ways around it by going underneath the stage. If your goal is to remove things that are boring, you will find that Brawl and indeed competitive play in general has several boring aspects to it. If it works, people will use it.


The Conclusion

Planking has yet to be shown to be dominant. While it does skew many matchups in favor of the planking character, it is not a universal constant and is a natural extension of character abilities. The matchups, such as Falco vs. MK, that become highly in the planking character's favor are that way due to one character's strength on the ledge and the other character's weakness. This is why you are often hear about the ICs or Falco getting planked but not so much about Snake or Metaknight.

That said, if you choose to use it because you believe it improves the competitive nature or quality of matches from a spectator's point of view, please acknowledge the changes listed earlier in this post. There are alternatives to the LGL such as having judges merely prevent people from staying on the ledge after extensive use, the banning of Metaknight, ledge grab limits limited only to characters that are "known plankers", ledge grab limits that are specific to individual characters so as to provide balance, etc., etc., but they all have their own consequences and should not be taken lightly.

Any rule change, whether it be stages, stock, time, or extra rules like the LGL or chain grabbing rules will always change the dynamics of a tournament. Molding the game to fit a preconceived idea of "competitive" is a dangerous game and in doing so you will often leave many competitive players at an artifical disadvantage when the game naturally gives them an advantage. Every change to your ruleset should be handled with care.
 

Nope

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nice writeup OS, although I don't agree with you 100% I am saving this space for some rebuttal later on.
 

Overswarm

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M2k won teams grand finals against me/razer @ winterfest by planking me on brinstar in the last 2/3 minutes.
I think what he means is no one entered a tournament and planked their way to victory; they just may have won individual matches in this fashion.
 

Flayl

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I think what he means is no one entered a tournament and planked their way to victory; they just may have won individual matches in this fashion.
Might be because planking takes time and if M2K knows he can win without it, why do it? Obviously it's the matches he's more concerned about where he's going to use it.
 

Overswarm

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Might be because planking takes time and if M2K knows he can win without it, why do it? Obviously it's the matches he's more concerned about where he's going to use it.
An accurate assessment for M2K, but for MetaknightHero339? Go tell a random scrub that he can win a tournament by just grabbing a ledge for 8 minutes every game and he'll win a few hundred bucks, then tell him he can do that every weekend? He'll do it. Multiple people will at least try. There's no real argument for why we haven't seen a rush of planking by lower level players attempting to win the impossible matchups so they win money.
 

Tyr_03

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It's probably unrealistic to assume that the average person will bother learning how to plank intelligently even if they do think it could make them win. Most people don't seem to have the attention span for it. I think it's also fair to say that the "average" player doesn't even play for money as much as entertainment so planking wouldn't get them what they want at all really. But that's just based on what I've noticed.
 

Pierce7d

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It's because there's a way to plank properly, where you cannot get hit, and then there's incorrect planking.

MOST people plank incorrectly, and discard the strategy, or simply lose. I won a pools match against a MK who incorrectly attempted to plank me.

M2k planks properly and therefore would be much harder to hit.
 

Xyro77

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I add a LGL to meta only and hes become weaker because of it. me happy.
 

Overswarm

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I personally abide by the philosophy that unless you can make a discrete ban, you just have to get rid of the character.
 

etecoon

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I think 3 is ridiculously unlikely unless the LGL is set absurdly low, I wouldn't see it as a legitimate consequence of instituting an LGL, I don't think someone can reasonably force you to grab the ledge 40+ times...at least not unless they are way better than you anyway, you might do this to players that aren't very good

I also agree that character specific rules are silly and add needless complexity, xyro, if you hate MK so much just ban him? you're not helping your ban argument by holding "meta knight legal" tournaments where MK is severely handicapped, the results will make him look weaker than he is no?

you need to do TO's discretion for scrooging as there isn't a post game stat that tells you "this person flew under the stage to stall", so the advent of scrooging seems to render a LGL much less effective/redundant anyway(unless you ban MK)
 

rathy Aro

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It's probably unrealistic to assume that the average person will bother learning how to plank intelligently even if they do think it could make them win. Most people don't seem to have the attention span for it. I think it's also fair to say that the "average" player doesn't even play for money as much as entertainment so planking wouldn't get them what they want at all really. But that's just based on what I've noticed.
I personally feel like because planking got limitted/banned so quickly I never had a chance to see it dominate. I wish I could plank well and I practice it so I can have a really gay MK, but I have no examples and low level players like myself need to see it a lot, before we can coppy and apply it. And if there are vids of ppl going the distance with planking please put them here.
 

Overswarm

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I think 3 is ridiculously unlikely unless the LGL is set absurdly low, I wouldn't see it as a legitimate consequence of instituting an LGL, I don't think someone can reasonably force you to grab the ledge 40+ times...at least not unless they are way better than you anyway, you might do this to players that aren't very good
Many LGLs have been less than 25, and for many characters it is a big problem. At a tournament where the LGL was 40, I was able to stall out the timer using the ledge with 5 minutes left, and not hitting 40 ledge grabs (this means that you basically have 3 minutes to get a sizeable lead, and if I get the lead I can use this "uber broken strat", which isn't what people wanted). I also forced people the to ledge repeatedly, making them get multiple ledge grabs. I even won a few matches, then showed the opponent their ledge grabs to show they had surpassed the amount! It's hard to get off the ledge when MK is charging an f-smash, and it really sucks when you ahve an MK ditto on norfair and he keeps grab-releasing you to force a ledge grab.


The odd issue with all surgical changes is that it is near impossible to get "just right". You're gonna have the rule be too limiting or not limiting enough 99.9% of the time.
 

TGM

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I think 3 is ridiculously unlikely unless the LGL is set absurdly low, I wouldn't see it as a legitimate consequence of instituting an LGL, I don't think someone can reasonably force you to grab the ledge 40+ times...at least not unless they are way better than you anyway, you might do this to players that aren't very good

I also agree that character specific rules are silly and add needless complexity, xyro, if you hate MK so much just ban him? you're not helping your ban argument by holding "meta knight legal" tournaments where MK is severely handicapped, the results will make him look weaker than he is no?

you need to do TO's discretion for scrooging as there isn't a post game stat that tells you "this person flew under the stage to stall", so the advent of scrooging seems to render a LGL much less effective/redundant anyway(unless you ban MK)
When xyro restricts metaknight with a LGL rule or a stage gliding rule or w/e its not meant to help his case to ban metaknight. All its for is to make metaknight more "fair"
 

Jim Morrison

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Most people don't plank cause you're seen as a huge ****** to plank in a tournament match while the other person is sitting next to you while you have a big grin and he's tearing his hair out and crying in a corner.
People care about what other people think.
 

Overswarm

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Most people don't plank cause you're seen as a huge ****** to plank in a tournament match while the other person is sitting next to you while you have a big grin and he's tearing his hair out and crying in a corner.
People care about what other people think.
People also care about money.

You're saying you could make $200-$500 a week by doing a simple, repetitive strategy and people aren't willing to do it because they might get called a poo-poo head?
 
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