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The Smash 64 Video Critique Thread ~ post your videos for strategy/advice/tips =D

The Star King

The Star King

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In general I would say avoid staying on the ground level too much. From the same height, Link can't really deal with Fox's short hop fair/dair - the vast majority of first hits against you were short hop aerials/lasers. Try using the platforms to approach with dair/throw stuff at him.

There were some execution issues. Like you tried to utilt -> dtilt but you did the dtilt too late, underestimating the start-up lag I guess (you can just walk forward -> another utilt most of the time). Also I really liked the idea behind the utilt at 1:34 but you did it too late.

If he does a low jump towards the edge like at 1:08, try dash attacking to force him to up-b.
 
TANK64

TANK64

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asianaussie said:
i saw the stage, paused the video and came back to say that this matchup sucks ***

it's a friendly, so there's not a huge amount i can say...your link is similar to mine in a lot of ways...d-tilts, hookshots and jabs where they should not be lol

not enough projectiles, even though it's against fox
when you up-b to hit them (as opposed to sweetspotting) consider sweetspotting instead, since link's up-b has a wtfhuge hitbox which goes through the stage anyway
up-b out of shield is an option vs fox (not a good one, but still)
personal thing, not enough f-air, reverse bair or reverse nair :3

i did like the u-tilt > dash attack at 1:35 or so, good decision
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What you were saying about just sweet spotting and grabbing the edge instead of trying to hit him sounds good. Definitely gonna try that, and mix it up as much as I can. I'll also try upB out of shield more, since jumping isn't getting me anywhere/rising dair doesn't come out. Usually he just jump back and shoots another lazer. So I'll be trying UbB out more.

RickySSB said:
More Horizontal aggressivity with the boomerang and Fairs, SH Dair and..... Bombs lol
Click to expand...
Got it! More projectiles, and yea, I wasn't using Fair that much (which is unlike me); gonna try different harassment techniques.

The Star King said:
In general I would say avoid staying on the ground level too much. From the same height, Link can't really deal with Fox's short hop fair/dair - the vast majority of first hits against you were short hop aerials/lasers. Try using the platforms to approach with dair/throw stuff at him.
Click to expand...
Now that you mention it, I noticed we almost didn't go on the platforms at all for most of the fight. Like you said, need to use that to pull out bombs/Dair/throw stuff.

There were some execution issues. Like you tried to utilt -> dtilt but you did the dtilt too late, underestimating the start-up lag I guess (you can just walk forward -> another utilt most of the time). Also I really liked the idea behind the utilt at 1:34 but you did it too late.
Click to expand...
Yea I kept on trying to delay the dtilt but somehow delayed too much lol. I don't know what was up with that- like you said, execution issues . Other sloppy stuff too. Momentum is usually not an issue, but I looked like I was clearly playing worse as the match went on.

If he does a low jump towards the edge like at 1:08, try dash attacking to force him to up-b.
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Never even thought of that lol. Definitely doing that.

Thank you for the advice everyone!
 
asianaussie

asianaussie

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i actually meant up-b above the stage but not landing on it - just grabbing the edge after

but sweetspotting can work against fox a lot too
 
asianaussie

asianaussie

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I was sleepy and in a boring lecture, this might not be a very complete analysis. First vid only for now.

First things first, I'm a minute into the first vid and I have to say Eikelmann is NOT showing respect for Falcon, especially on DL...this feels harsh, but that's the only thing I can say after Falcon takes three stocks in rapid succession, at least one of which wasn't necessarily warranted.

Staying above him, plodding about in B-Air range...this is cured by playing more (both as Falcon and against him) but it's something he really needs to work on imo. It definitely improved a bit later in the video, but it's still something that needs addressing.

Just past the point I paused, he got an F-Throw - he didn't convert it at all. Gotta work on that jump F-Throw (fastfall) DJ Up-B, follow this with Up-B edgeguarding (or other moves at higher percents) and that's a free stock. Another possibility is F-Throw turnaround release B-Throw, which can lead to edgeguarding as well. Emphasizing this because it happened twice and is especially good vs Falcon and Fox. Note that vs good mashers/macro users this is not viable, whereas F-Throw release B-Throw is a tactic that generally works.

U-Tilt is a terrible anti-air against most things, pivoting and going from there is probably better.

DK doesn't have much reason to jab shields, if it actually catches them they can often react and jump out of the resulting grab.
 
Olikus

Olikus

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at the end of match one you recover high and easy to punish. But just coming low can be easy for falcon and punish allso. When you up that high fastfall and then start your upb. In my experience it allmost works everytime, even if poeple get used to you doing it.

And yeah learn to pivot. Its very important for DK since he really cant jump in super aggro like falcon and pika.
 
asianaussie

asianaussie

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well ok

Video 2 improved by a considerable margin.

Consider using and cancelling Giant Punch for edgehogging, being able to use Up-B edgeguards and grabbing the ledge afterwards and for general B-Air usage.

Don't abuse D-Air in spacing so much, while you might clip them and get a techchase/lucky U-Smash, B-Air is better simply because it's far less risky.

For Video 3, B-Air spacing needs more improvement, rather than throwing out a B-Air then sitting there like a lemon when it misses, keep moving, Up-B if they get too close, jump again if you feel you need to get out.

Be more proactive with edgeguards. F-Smash is not a good edgeguard, it is a lazy move (lazy in terms of physical movement) that rarely works. Something like jump-off Up-B/B-Air/D-Air is far better, or even D-Tilt.

Learn tent combos with F and B-Throw. You use F-Throw at times where it isn't appropriate and sometimes you fail to get regrabs out of it.

It's good to see that you watch the opponent when you yourself are recovering, this is something that eludes newbies the world over.

The one thing that I almost forgot to mention (and is incredibly important): you waste your double jumps quite often, often when it isn't necessary. This kills an option you have after you whiff an aerial (less important with DK), as well as a general reactive spacing option. It leaves you very open to low/mid-percentage gimps. DK can compensate somewhat with defensive Up-Bs in the air, but you are still very vulnerable.
 
clubbadubba

clubbadubba

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just watched all three. You seem to have more trouble vs falcon than fox. On DL, you really don't wanna get above falcon with dk. His usmash >= your dair so if you thought that was an option... its not. you can really only hang out on the side platforms IF he is on the other side of the stage and you're facing away so that you can do a platform drop bair when he approaches. Otherwise I recommend ground level for dk vs falcon.

Maybe you messed up, or maybe you just didn't react quickly enough, but from 2:15 -2:25 in video 3, you had 2 chances to grab falcon but instead you sat there and did nothing until he grabbed you. Gotta take advantages of those situations especially as dk. getting a free grab for dk is GREAT.

Video 2 was the best for you. EZ up-b edgeguard, very good. That one point when you were spamming dairs you probably should've been spamming bairs. Dair, especially when you do it that early in the jump, leaves you very open for an attack. In general, you could start your aerial moves later in your jump. By doing them early, you reveal what you are doing, and there is a possibility of making yourself vulnerable before you hit the ground. If you do it late enough so that you are still in the move animation when you hit the ground, you can zcancel so no landing lag and react immediately.

Definitely looked like you overestimate hitstun, landing lag, and move lag (time after a move until you can do other things). Remember that there is no landing lag if you zcancel, so you can react IMMEDIATELY. Practice bair zcancel -> dash or jump as quickly as you can. Playing more will help you understand hitstun and move lag better, but in the mean time don't be afraid to test the limits. See just how early you can get out of stun and how quickly you can get out another move, I think you'll be surprised.

Hope that helps, best of luck!
 
ballin4life

ballin4life

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not sure if anyone mentioned this, but at 2:36 of video 3 you fthrow him off the right side of hyrule - instead of doing this you can throw him left off the tent and it combos into a spike.

also you should be better at those hyrule tent combos. it's pretty easy to practice those on CPUs to see what works (when to fthrow vs bthrow and which direction to fthrow in)
 
H

Hiphiphooray

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The Star King said:
You're pausing too long between the Uairs. Act sooner after you land.
Click to expand...
I'll try, but man its so much button mashing in such a little period of time - hard to get used to.

Do you guys normally z-cancel the shorthop landing on the ledge or just use your aerial soon enough that it auto cancels? and should i be shield dropping through the ledge or just ducking through?

Also, can anyone link me an easy combo or something involving u-air chain that I could practice?
 
SSBPete

SSBPete

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you should always z-cancel.
shield dropping is faster but not necessary. i recommend practicing it. practice practice practice and you'll gain speed and accuracy.

im on my phone so i can't link videos but look up 'hype', the TANK, pete and ricky combo video and find my DK combo, its a chain of about 10 uairs.

also look up DK on Falcon 1+2, the second combo is a very basic uair chain.

:phone:
 
The Star King

The Star King

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Hiphiphooray said:
I'll try, but man its so much button mashing in such a little period of time - hard to get used to.
Click to expand...
Practice makes perfect.

Hiphiphooray said:
Do you guys normally z-cancel the shorthop landing on the ledge or just use your aerial soon enough that it auto cancels?
Click to expand...
I usually z-cancel but you can autocancel both uairs. Although, z-canceling gives you the option of delaying an uair if needed.


Hiphiphooray said:
and should i be shield dropping through the ledge or just ducking through?
Click to expand...
I shield drop but I'm not sure why, I think it's just a habit to *always* shield when I drop through a platform. A regular drop might be better here.

SSBPete said:
shield dropping is faster
Click to expand...
Source?
 
M!nt

M!nt

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Why would he need to source, isn't it a known fact that shield dropping is faster?
 
Sangoku

Sangoku

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You can't be serious Star King? You're saying you didn't know that shield dropping allows you to get rid of the crouching animation and therefore makes you drop faster?

I'll tell you by how much.

edit: lol by only 2 frames assuming we're perfect. Why do we even bother with this? I guess the best use is really with dashes and pivots then.
 
The Star King

The Star King

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Why does everyone expect me to know about a 2 frame difference when I have never seen this mentioned in my 3 and a half years here. And it's a 2 frame difference IF you shield for 1 frame, which you probably aren't. So if you shield for just 3 frames, 1/20 of a second, it's the same?

:C
 
Sangoku

Sangoku

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It was a known fact that "it was faster because there were no crouching animation". At least I've heard it several times. Turns out to be wrong though. Maybe I missed something with my calculations, but I think I still know how to count. Also, maybe it varies depending on the characters, I've only tried Mario, Luigi and Fox.

By the way, you can either input the shield and down on the same frame, or you can input down on the next frame, the result is the same. So you have a two frames window to make it perfect.
 
Han Solo

Han Solo

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Work on z-canceling, teching, and pivots. Falcon has some very standard but very effective combos. Uair-chains into upb and fthrow-fair-uair-upb. Also, that looks like an HDTV, so there's going to be some delay. Try to find a CRT TV.
 
H

Hiphiphooray

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Cool thanks. Any advice on how to practice z-canceling besides the boring grind in training mode? And thats interesting about the TV, do you know why HDTV has lag over CRT TV?
 
Han Solo

Han Solo

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It has something to do with the resolution of the games being played. For an HD PS3/360 game on an HDTV, there doesn't need to be any upscaling because the resolution of the game plays at the TVs native resolution. When you play an N64 game, it has a really low resolution, 240p or 480i. This needs to be upscaled to fit the HDTV's native resolution. This doesn't happen for CRTs.
 
The Real Sykes

The Real Sykes

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To practice z canceling just go into training mode and practice combos, its just all muscle memory and knowing how to do it
 
The Star King

The Star King

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Best way to practice IMO is go into a match (whether CPUs or real people) and play normally but CONSCIOUSLY try to z-cancel your aerials every time, and focus on that all game. Eventually it will become unconscious and will feel very wrong to not z-cancel.
 
M

mikeduncan23

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When I was learning I would practice one type of Z-Cancel at a time. I would make myself do something 20x in a row before I could move on to something new. And the one of the best ways to practice basic zcancel's is to transition a downair into an upsmash in my opinion. This lets you see the practical aspect a little easier.

As far as falcon goes, the more you can play against real people, the better. Practice stringing your uair's together better, and I would say Hyrule is a better map to learn early. Best of luck
 
The Real Sykes

The Real Sykes

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mikeduncan23 said:
When I was learning I would practice one type of Z-Cancel at a time. I would make myself do something 20x in a row before I could move on to something new. And the one of the best ways to practice basic zcancel's is to transition a downair into an upsmash in my opinion. This lets you see the practical aspect a little easier.

As far as falcon goes, the more you can play against real people, the better. Practice stringing your uair's together better, and I would say Hyrule is a better map to learn early. Best of luck
Click to expand...
Playing falcon against real people hands down, you learn alot more quickly, against light and heavy characters
 
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