The SBR Ruleset 3.0 Discussion- How does this change Diddy's meta?

[Ingulit]

So, do you like the new ruleset, hate it, or fall somewhere in between? No matter your position, this thread is all about discussing the new ruleset and how it changes Diddy's meta.


Some quotes from the Social Thread:

diddy does fine on luigis, ps2, and ptad

keyword: does fine.

other characters are BROKEN on some of those stages. doesnt matter tho as long as mlg/florida keep their rules it will be decent >_>

1. Luigi's means we have to waste a ban vs. Olimar or Meta Knight; we do NOT do fine in this situation
2. We can't ban Brinstar anymore thanks to needing to ban Norfair in most other match-ups
3. Diddy sucks on Distant Planet, and I'm sure it's good for other character who will start taking us there after we ban Norfair
4. We do less-than-stellar on both Green Greens and Jungle Japes, stages where other characters really excel.
5. If someone has a pocket MK (read: everyone), all they have to do is take us to one of the stages we couldn't ban, switch to MK, and royally butt**** us. They could do this before, but now that there are so many bad stages for us, I can see it happening more and more.
6. We may do "fine" on Luigi's, PS2, and PTAD, but other characters can **** on those stages, allowing for an even tougher decision when banning stages.

I seriously think Diddy will drop a lot with this new ruleset if TOs actually follow it.

And the new starter stage list almost 100% guarantees we won't start on FD ever, and will probably end up having to play Yoshi's or Lylat. I'm not saying those are bad stages for us, but they're great for other characters.

 

[DFEAR]

well w.e it just shows that whoever wins first match has an advantage clearly. otherwise a loss cause in all seriousness.

counterpick system taken to the extreme

 

[Player-1]

i've heard arguments that diddy does better because we now have picto as a CP against characters like MK if we've already won the first match on SV and FD is banned and MK automatically wins the 2nd match because if we ban brinstar then he'll go rc and vice versa so it doesn't matter if they add a bunch of dumb stages anyway, but I personally don't like it because I feel very comfortable on RC against MK, just as comfortable as I would on BF and also we still had PS1 as a good CP against MK so </3 for new ruleset

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I honestly think that this stage list is better than the MLG stage list or the old stage list because of the way that it is built. It balances itself by giving the players too many stages and not enough matches in a set to abuse them. It also gives Diddy a new counterpick(pictochat). This is not to say that this is in my opinion the best stage list to use, but it's not as bad as people say it is. The way I see it, unless we make a rule set with nothing but neutrals, we are always going to have to win the first match in order to have a high chance of winning the set. This rule set does need a ledge grab limit though as it has already been proven to be broken.

 

[TreK]

Pros :
Luigi's Mansion, Pictochat, Green Greens, Jungle Japes

Cons :
Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, RC, Brinstar
Planking

So yeah. Freeloss on their CPs, not-free win on ours, not-free win on the neutrals.

Sucks for you :V
/Europe doesn't care

 

[Count]

I think it only really matters in 3/5 sets. It does kinda suck if norfair is legal because you usually gotta ban that (unless you're az). Were not going to beat mk on his cp anyway unless we're just way better than our opponent during that game.



It probably doesn't matter as most TOs won't use this list.

 

[Player-1]

norfair>brinstar IMO

 

[AlphaZealot]

I always ban Rainbow. And MK's just take you to whatever their best "neatral" is because that removes any possibility of them losing (for the good ones). versus us that means like yoshi and lylat and maybe battlefield. Rainbow will always be their first choice though over all the stages that could possibly be one. At least on Norfair you can't get planking a whole game like you can on Smashville.

 

[Player-1]

AZ just sucks and needs to get better on RC IMO

 

[Count]

I always ban Rainbow. And MK's just take you to whatever their best "neatral" is because that removes any possibility of them losing (for the good ones). versus us that means like yoshi and lylat and maybe battlefield. Rainbow will always be their first choice though over all the stages that could possibly be one. At least on Norfair you can't get planking a whole game like you can on Smashville.

Who does that in the midwest? Kel and OS both go to brinstar/norfair/rainbow. The only set I've played Judge I lost 2-0 so I wouldn't know vs him.

 

[sai_:)]

@ingulit If both DP and Luigis mansion are on and your fighting olimar, you wanna ban DP instead. Olimars ******** as balls on mansion but he's even more ridiculous on dp. His camping abilities against you on that stage are unparralleled and getting grabbed on the left side is just...you usually die lol.

Tbh both stages are horrible against him but mansion is like...5% better


Also FINALLYYYY everyone gets to play on picto chat. Its such an awesome cp for us :D

and yeah mansions fairly good for Diddy but for the characters that really excel on it...we just don't compare :/

 

[Player-1]

if an olimar was trying to camp me on DP then I'd just camp next to the ledge on the wooden thing because part of it is under the main stage

 

[Ingulit]

TBH I don't think DP is that horrible in Diddy v. Olimar, not as much as Luigi's anyway. Like P1 said, just camp back (and in that exact spot, it works wonders).

 

[AlphaZealot]

OS/Kel/Judge always take me to their best neutral or like, Frigate (mainly Kel, or OS if he switches to ROB). I think they have both tried Brinstar in the past and lost so they don't even bother with it. Same with Norfair (actually I think OS beat me there but I SD'd my first stock @ <20%, the video is online somewhere, still got the match to last stock-last hit). Sanoscy's MK tried Brinstar on me at Pound and failed. Cables DK also tried Brinstar and failed. I think a few other people tried it in pools and met a similar demise. Doom's MK went best neutral but had no luck, though I think he did better than he would have on Brinstar. M2K took me to Brinstar and beat me but w/ 1 stock like 50% IIRC (much closer than it should with all those supposed "advantages").

I think we get crushed by MK on Distant Planet if there is no LGL (crushed as in a slow death and from a time out, sigh). Your best bet is to keep that % lead but if MK grabs that bottom area with the lead we are boned. If there is an LGL then DO NOT approach MK under the stage in his little camp ground. Just pester him with peanuts from the far right so he has to regrab the edge and also grab the bottle caps and throw that into the water when it comes because they act as a projectile while they float down the mountain. We also have some cool bottle cap trixies, if you can get the opponent to fight out away from the bottom edge I'd say we have some good MU's, including vs MK, but **** that bottom edge...

Yea I'm terrible on Rainbow. I really should learn that stage but I always just ban it and then decided to get really good at Brinstar (which is sorta a product of people picking Brinstar all the time versus me because Rainbow is banned, then not accounting for me playing there a bazillion times a tournament whereas they only choose it versus Diddy as a panic option, again, this is why the really good ones go best neutral I believe).

 

[NCdabess]

I know this is a ******** question and all so no need to point it outant you switch characters after you ban a stage?

 

[Ingulit]

Are you saying we can switch characters or the fact that the opponent can switch? If it's the first, it has no point in the Diddy forums because here we only talk about using Diddy. If it's the second, we know and it ****s us over due to just about everyone having a pocket MK they can CP against us.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

to answer the question, yes, you announce bans then choose char

 

[NCdabess]

okay thanks ive never been to a tourney and im new to cp's and banning and stuff.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

I've beaten a pocket MK on Brinstar before, granted it was wifi. But who cares, we suck on wifi.

Don't put too much stock into people who second Meta Knight or go to him just to match the CP. I believe that when you really reach the top of your game, things like a Pocket MK won't be too hard to deal with. It was CLOSE for me, but it was still doable. It is not free win for them.

Now if this is a person who mains Meta Knight then there will be a bigger problem, but you really should practice that MU a lot so you don't lose game one. If you lose Game 1 then yes, you WILL be hard pressed to win on Game 3 since there are a ton of CPs MK has.
It's simply that I don't believe pocket MKs should be treated as scary. Don't let the switch anger you and fight MK like all Diddies know how.

Though if Norfair is legal then freaking ban it. You can win on Rainbow Cruise but Norfair leaves almost no banana game room and it's shuttle loop paradise. Never fight MK there.

I can't really speak for Olimar, I only know that his pikmin eat my bananas.

 

[Ingulit]

You don't seem to understand how much better a good MK is at the plethora of stages we're mediocre at, and the extremely low learning curve of MK. ANYONE who is at least decent at Brawl can just CP us to some ******** stage and go MK and proceed to ****, and at high level play (read: not "wifi with friends hurr") it will happen.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

You don't seem to understand how much better a good MK is at the plethora of stages we're mediocre at, and the extremely low learning curve of MK. ANYONE who is at least decent at Brawl can just CP us to some ******** stage and go MK and proceed to ****, and at high level play (read: not "wifi with friends hurr") it will happen.

One, it wasn't a friendly, it was a ladder match with a guy several hundred points higher than me who decided to use Meta game 3.

I just dont think that, unless you already lost Game 1 and this guy can beat you anyway, it's a big threat. If you win Game 1, you can win Game 3. Game 2 ban Norfair, and you can beat Meta Knight on every other CP stage. It might be freaking hard, but it's not impossible. Do not think of it as impossible. Again, Meta Knight should be a matchup that everyone knows how to deal with, so despite all the stupid stuff he can do, it's just not a lost cause...

I still really don't know what to say about Olimar.

 

[Ingulit]

It. Is. Still. Wifi. Wifi, no matter how "official" it may be, will NEVER represent actual results in offline (read: the much, much more important kind of) matches.

So you ban Norfair? They have still have Brinstar, RC, and Luigi's Mansion. And while you may win match 1, if it is best 3 out of 5 we will never win if the opponent is even halfway decent due to the vast number of counterpicks against us. Have you ever played a good MK offline, ever?


Olimar: CP Port Town Aero Dive, Smashville, FD. Ban Luigi's, Halberd.

 

[Player-1]

I think I'd rather play MK on RC, Norfair, Mansion, and pretty much any other than brinstar.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

It. Is. Still. Wifi. Wifi, no matter how "official" it may be, will NEVER represent actual results in offline (read: the much, much more important kind of) matches.

So you ban Norfair? They have still have Brinstar, RC, and Luigi's Mansion. And while you may win match 1, if it is best 3 out of 5 we will never win if the opponent is even halfway decent due to the vast number of counterpicks against us. Have you ever played a good MK offline, ever?


Olimar: CP Port Town Aero Dive, Smashville, FD. Ban Luigi's, Halberd.

A former pro, but that doesn't count because it was Doubles and I wasn't Diddy and there was Smashballs and we were playing on Bridge of Eldin. So basically once, in a horrible HighSchool tournament (which was fun anyway), but no, not in essence. Hopefully I'll rectify that on the 11th and 21st.

tbh I think you're being extremely negative... if you can't at least view it as possible you aren't going to win. I never said that the changes don't make things harder for us, I'm saying that it's not unbeatable.

...Though I bet the situation IS really freaking hard I know I couldn't do it irl lol.

 

[Ingulit]

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic :\ You need to go to a few legit tournaments before you know what I mean, but you'll agree with me with time. You have to be really, really, REALLY good to beat even a decent MK on those stages. Saying it is hard is quite an understatement.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic :\ You need to go to a few legit tournaments before you know what I mean, but you'll agree with me with time. You have to be really, really, REALLY good to beat even a decent MK on those stages. Saying it is hard is quite an understatement.

I said "really freaking hard", which to me means Expert Mode on the arcade DDRs. Holy crap those are fast.

Well eh, I'll be at a legit tournament on Saturday if things go well. I'll let you know how it goes if I manage to get far enough to fight a real Meta. Really though I'm just in these things, boards, and discussions to learn atm... I'll get past round one but I can't guarantee anything about round two :D
Actually I don't even know if it's going to use the new rule-set. Hrm.