The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy Discussion

[Morbi]

Wait, Daisy is coming to the RTC that fast?

Well I am not expecting much since she is a controversial character. Well other than the fact that spinoff characters would be seen as unlikely for any series.

It will still be interesting to see where people place her relative to some of the other, more obscure, characters.

 

[RosiePeaches]

It will still be interesting to see where people place her relative to some of the other, more obscure, characters.

I can already predict that she will score low due to personal bias. Anyways, have you seen this?

https://t.co/zu2VDUjU2S

It says that an ARMS fighter may be too early for Smash...so that would mean that Xenoblade 2 might have been too late aswell. Do you think that the newcomers will mostly be focused on the ballot?

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Doctor Mario does.

I think Doc is an exception due to being a last minute clone of Mario.

And even then, he was cut from Brawl and came back since Smash 4. I am unsure if he would return.

Though the anti-spinoff bias is still pretty clear.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Tomorrow is going to be a bloodbath for sure. Unfortunately I have to be honest with my score, but it is definitely not super low.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

My score would have to be a 20% at best since that would be the most realistic score for her IMO.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Hey Daisy fans, today is her double day with Paper Mario in RTC. Come by and rate her.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

The scores Daisy is getting on that thread are low... but her Want is not as tragic as I thought at least.
Also I gave her a 60% because she and Paper Mario are the most realistic choices and we are totally getting a new Mario rep.
But I am at least pretending she is going to surpass Pauline's overall Chances because she has slightly more than 10% and getting lower than that for a character like Daisy is just bad.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well it first depends on IF we get a new Mario character
Then there's competition between Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi and Daisy
And even if you 100% believe there's a Mario character happening, and assign each character an equal chance to get in, Daisy's chance would only be 25%

So I think 10%-15% is adequate for people not "in the know" about Daisy's entire scope of moveset, relevancy, spin-off antics of just generally less optimistic about a Mario character happening or more optimistic about the great years Captain Toad and Paper Mario had, or think that Waluigi usurps Daisy's moveset potential etc.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I'll do my write up after a good night's rest.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I don't feel it's correct to argue over chances in the RTC thread, it would be more relevant to do so here. I posted my thoughts in the RTC thread for anyone who wants to see where I am coming from.

Please educate me on what Daisy's mainstream roles are she apparently has besides Super Mario Land? Some supporters were insinuating in the thread she has other "mainline" games. I am curious.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don't feel it's correct to argue over chances in the RTC thread, it would be more relevant to do so here. I posted my thoughts in the RTC thread for anyone who wants to see where I am coming from.

Please educate me on what Daisy's mainstream roles are she apparently has besides Super Mario Land? Some supporters were insinuating in the thread she has other "mainline" games. I am curious.

Super Mario Run can be seen as mainline/platformer game, hence the plural.
TECHNICALLY she has a name drop in Odyssey due to amiibo functionality (where a machine says "this is a daisy amiibo" and then gives coins or whatever)

 

[YoshiandToad]

Well it first depends on IF we get a new Mario character
Then there's competition between Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi and Daisy
And even if you 100% believe there's a Mario character happening, and assign each character an equal chance to get in, Daisy's chance would only be 25%

And of course that's only if we also ignore other Mario characters chances outside those four whom seem to be the frontrunners.

There's also:
Geno: Got a Smash Mii outfit, has been considered for Smash before, weirdly large fan following
Pauline: Mario Odyssey brought her back from obscurity and she's now in the mainline games. Could be used for an Odyssey based moveset if Mario is staying the same.
Nabbit: Debuted last gen(many previous Smashers got in on the following consoles Smash game from their debut), was a playable character in a Mario sidescroller.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

And of course that's only if we also ignore other Mario characters chances outside those four whom seem to be the frontrunners.

There's also:
Geno: Got a Smash Mii outfit, has been considered for Smash before, weirdly large fan following
Pauline: Mario Odyssey brought her back from obscurity and she's now in the mainline games. Could be used for an Odyssey based moveset if Mario is staying the same.
Nabbit: Debuted last gen(many previous Smashers got in on the following consoles Smash game from their debut), was a playable character in a Mario sidescroller.

I refuse to acknowledge Geno as a Mario character, I see him as Square's number 2 rep rather than a Mario character with less screentime than Perry the Parasol. I did almost add him to the list but I considered him a Square rep moreso than a Mario character.

I'd hate it if Pauline got in because it'd mean that a measly role in a relevant main game would suddenly get you in over a character with long-running and consistent appearances in spin-offs, even without super obvious moveset potential like Rosalina and Luma.
It'd also drive home the very sucky point that all you need is one lucky bulls-eye appearance and getting in Smash would be a timing-based endeavour rather than having history and building up a resume.

Pauline represents everything I hate about speculation, between newcomers having to "represent" a certain game, the meticulous measuring of when a game is "relevant" enough to be a "shoo-in" and its magical three month window of guaranteedness (and everything outside of it is old trash ofc), the blatant disregard for spin-offs and consistency in appearances, the thinking in patterns and roles (Pauline as the "Rosalina of Smash Switch") and the mentality of "character first, moveset can be background elements thrown in a blender"

I'm Nabbit's biggest fan probably but if it ain't on Switch, it belongs in the ditch. The fact that Petey Piranha made it on this console before him makes me very sceptical on Nabbit's future. Mario spin-offs aren't churned out like they used to and they don't tend to introduce new characters anymore

 

[YoshiandToad]

I refuse to acknowledge Geno as a Mario character, I see him as Square's number 2 rep rather than a Mario character with less screentime than Perry the Parasol. I did almost add him to the list but I considered him a Square rep moreso than a Mario character.

I'd hate it if Pauline got in because it'd mean that a measly role in a relevant main game would suddenly get you in over a character with long-running and consistent appearances in spin-offs, even without super obvious moveset potential like Rosalina and Luma.
It'd also drive home the very sucky point that all you need is one lucky bulls-eye appearance and getting in Smash would be a timing-based endeavour rather than having history and building up a resume.

Pauline represents everything I hate about speculation, between newcomers having to "represent" a certain game, the meticulous measuring of when a game is "relevant" enough to be a "shoo-in" and its magical three month window of guaranteedness (and everything outside of it is old trash ofc), the blatant disregard for spin-offs and consistency in appearances, the thinking in patterns and roles (Pauline as the "Rosalina of Smash Switch") and the mentality of "character first, moveset can be background elements thrown in a blender"

I'm Nabbit's biggest fan probably but if it ain't on Switch, it belongs in the ditch. The fact that Petey Piranha made it on this console before him makes me very sceptical on Nabbit's future. Mario spin-offs aren't churned out like they used to and they don't tend to introduce new characters anymore

I mean honestly I'm with you regarding Geno. He's always struck me as the oddest of duck choices. Kinda glad he got a mii outfit but that's as far as I'd want him to go personally.

I mean one could argue that Pauline herself was the original damsel and she does have a major role in the Mario Vs. Donkey Kong spinoff series, but I can understand the frustration. Trust me, as a Toad fan the feeling of one lucky shot is all too familiar.

Regardless, my point was more these characters are also technically competing with your girl so a low chance score is probably a mix of competing with the other three main contenders and these slightly more peculiar characters.

On topic for Daisy, it's a shame we never get to go back and explore Sarasaland. Heck, a game that reintroduced the desert land could also house some forgotten opponents like Tatunga, Wart, Birdo and Captain Syrup as residents to explain their disappearances within the Mario universe's maingames.

(I'm aware Birdo isn't really forgotten and Syrup appeared in Wario Shake It but you get the idea for bringing the lore back for them).

Also I really wanna see Daisy's Toad equivalent.

 

[Inawordyes]

I'm Nabbit's biggest fan probably but if it ain't on Switch, it belongs in the ditch. The fact that Petey Piranha made it on this console before him makes me very sceptical on Nabbit's future. Mario spin-offs aren't churned out like they used to and they don't tend to introduce new characters anymore

Just saying, we don't know who or how many unlockable characters there will be in Mario Tennis Aces aside from Koopa Troopa, so Nabbit still has a very likely chance of showing up, and his being playable would actually be more substantial than Petey's just being a boss.

EDIT:

Also I really wanna see Daisy's Toad equivalent.

There's always the Dryites which are basically desert toads with tagelmusts. Since Sarasaland is at least in part a desert, desert toads would be neat.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I mean honestly I'm with you regarding Geno. He's always struck me as the oddest of duck choices. Kinda glad he got a mii outfit but that's as far as I'd want him to go personally.

I mean one could argue that Pauline herself was the original damsel and she does have a major role in the Mario Vs. Donkey Kong spinoff series, but I can understand the frustration. Trust me, as a Toad fan the feeling of one lucky shot is all too familiar.

Regardless, my point was more these characters are also technically competing with your girl so a low chance score is probably a mix of competing with the other three main contenders and these slightly more peculiar characters.

On topic for Daisy, it's a shame we never get to go back and explore Sarasaland. Heck, a game that reintroduced the desert land could also house some forgotten opponents like Tatunga, Wart, Birdo and Captain Syrup as residents to explain their disappearances within the Mario universe's maingames.

(I'm aware Birdo isn't really forgotten and Syrup appeared in Wario Shake It but you get the idea for bringing the lore back for them).

Also I really wanna see Daisy's Toad equivalent.

Yeah, but I've yet to see a design/moveset that succesfully incorporates elements from those games without it overshadowing her Odyssey appearance, so I feel the DK Arcade and MvsDK games are the "regular Toad" games to Pauline's "Captain Toad" Odyssey break-out appearance.

It is said that Tatanga hypno'd the residents of Sarasaland, so perhaps one of the enemies of Super Mario Land is the Toad of Sarasaland.
But I don't hold my breath for a Sarasaland reappearance.

Just saying, we don't know who or how many unlockable characters there will be in Mario Tennis Aces aside from Koopa Troopa, so Nabbit still has a very likely chance of showing up, and his being playable would actually be more substantial than Petey's just being a boss.

EDIT:


There's always the Dryites which are basically desert toads with tagelmusts. Since Sarasaland is at least in part a desert, desert toads would be neat.

Yeah he could definitely appear in that one, but Mario spin-off rosters have lately just been reruns of the core spin-offians, with a few characters specifically chosen to be out of left field. Nabbit doesn't really fit that bill imo, he appeared more than the Sprixies, is generally clamored for to be in spin-offs and doesn't have a goofy gimmick like Chain Chomp

 

[RosiePeaches]

Weren’t these other, spinoff characters only in one or two games? Like the F-Zero Maximum Overdrive characters stayed in that game? Or the Fire Emblem Warriors and Hyrule Warriors characters being only in those games? Daisy has been in crossovers before and referenced in other games.

 

[Chromfirmed]

Weren’t these other, spinoff characters only in one or two games? Like the F-Zero Maximum Overdrive characters stayed in that game? Or the Fire Emblem Warriors and Hyrule Warriors characters being only in those games? Daisy has been in crossovers before and referenced in other games.

You're right. By the way, in the other post, you only put the "Chance" section, you forgot the "Want" section.

On the other hand, I have already given my opinion on the subject, to debate it more seems to me a waste of time.
Hopefully, Daisy in Smash, to silence haters.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

I find ironic how people think Daisy has less personality than Waluigi, I mean seriously? Lol

 

[Opossum]

I find ironic how people think Daisy has less personality than Waluigi, I mean seriously? Lol

I mean, I'd say so. Waluigi is brimming with personality. And unlike Daisy, I think Waluigi's is far more unique (or at least less tropey) and entertaining.

No need to take potshots at Waa.

 

[Chromfirmed]

No need to take potshots at Waa.

Right, there is no need, mainly because it is a waste of time.
Another thing is that several Waluigi "fans" do the same with Daisy...

The funny thing is that maybe neither Daisy nor Walugi enter Smash Bros. In a few months we will see the result.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

I mean, I'd say so. Waluigi is brimming with personality. And unlike Daisy, I think Waluigi's is far more unique (or at least less tropey) and entertaining.

No need to take potshots at Waa.

His personality unique? How? Basically he is a shameless rewrite of Wario personality wise.

 

[Opossum]

His personality unique? How? Basically he is a shameless rewrite of Wario personality wise.

It's far from it. Wario is a greedy gross-out guy who only looks out for himself.

Waluigi downplays the greed aspect and outright ignores the gross out aspect, instead opting for a self-pitying prideful cheater personality. Waluigi is flamboyant and competitive, but because he has a narcissistic view of himself, he revels in his successes but pins the blame on others for his failings. The guy even cheats the laws of physics to aid him in a game. He's a hilariously sore loser whose lofty view of himself leads him to do anything to win, which is a far cry from most other Mario series characters.

And this is all told through his animations. Visual storytelling with a high amount of charm. To say he's a Wario rehash shows a blatant misunderstanding of BOTH Wario and Waluigi.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'd really enjoy Waluigi's zany antics if edgy memelords didn't act like he's the second coming of Christ

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

I mean, I'd say so. Waluigi is brimming with personality. And unlike Daisy, I think Waluigi's is far more unique (or at least less tropey) and entertaining.

No need to take potshots at Waa.

It's far from it. Wario is a greedy gross-out guy who only looks out for himself.

Waluigi downplays the greed aspect and outright ignores the gross out aspect, instead opting for a self-pitying prideful cheater personality. Waluigi is flamboyant and competitive, but because he has a narcissistic view of himself, he revels in his successes but pins the blame on others for his failings. The guy even cheats the laws of physics to aid him in a game. He's a hilariously sore loser whose lofty view of himself leads him to do anything to win, which is a far cry from most other Mario series characters.

And this is all told through his animations. Visual storytelling with a high amount of charm. To say he's a Wario rehash shows a blatant misunderstanding of BOTH Wario and Waluigi.

It's not, this is just something his voice actor said about Waluigi that not only the character never showed in any game but also contraddicts his acutal personality:
Waluigi is acutally full of himself this is clear when we hear his ingame line "Waluigi number one" "I still think I can beat you" etc
Admitting that the others cheated is not being self pity, Wario also called Mario cheater in Slugger and in Mario Kart 8 and Deluxe he yells "cheater!"

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

And we are having a fandom war over both characters because?

How about we just take a moment and not have pitchforks ready over the smallest things?

 

[Opossum]

It's not, this is just something his voice actor said about Waluigi that not only the character never showed in any game but also contraddicts his acutal personality:
Waluigi is acutally full of himself this is clear when we hear his ingame line "Waluigi number one" "I still think I can beat you" etc
Admitting that the others cheated is not being self pity, Wario also called Mario cheater in Slugger and in Mario Kart 8 and Deluxe he yells "cheater!"

I don't see how what I said contradicts anything. And yes, it's clearly self-pity. The over dramatic losing animations, the over the top victory animations...even compared to other characters in the sports games, Waluigi has a flare for dramatics. He's full of himself and as such thinks anything he does wrong is the fault of others.

It's surface-level analysis and incredibly hard to miss unless you have a complete misunderstanding of his character. And last I checked, this is a Daisy support thread, not a "bash Waluigi while no one is looking" thread. This is memoryman all over again.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

I don't see how what I said contradicts anything. And yes, it's clearly self-pity. The over dramatic losing animations, the over the top victory animations...even compared to other characters in the sports games, Waluigi has a flare for dramatics. He's full of himself and as such thinks anything he does wrong is the fault of others.

It's surface-level analysis and incredibly hard to miss unless you have a complete misunderstanding of his character. And last I checked, this is a Daisy support thread, not a "bash Waluigi while no one is looking" thread. This is memoryman all over again.

As I said, being over the top when he wins acting full of himself, blaming thethe others instead of himself for his failure is not being seflpity at all, as a self pity person myself I can clearly say that, no one acts full of himself when wins and self pity when loses unless that person has bipolar disorders. The overexaggetared losing animations are just a comic relief just like Wario has.

But yeah this is a Daisy thread so I'll stop here.

 

[Chromfirmed]

Can we move on from this topic and talk about something else? All this incoherent debate only harms the character.

What month do you think Smash Bros will be released? What number of new characters will there be in this new game?
I hope there is a Smash Direct.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

But yeah, you guys seriously need to calm it down, this is exactly what turns people off from Daisy. But to get back on track, if Daisy does end up being a semi-clone I wonder what her meat shield will be. Using Toad might be weird.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Speaking of Wario though, it seems like he's truly a "weird and zany Mario" in Smash 4, embodying the zaniness of WarioWare combined with using some of Mario's moves, like his Smashes, in a crude way.

I thought about this and thought, why can't Daisy be a "crude Peach" so to say, existing as a foil to Peach gameplan?
I always liked reasoning out Daisy's moveplan by showing potential contrasts with Peach.

For example,

Peach's main tool is her float, which gives her:
-Horizontal prowess
-Precise spacing
-Aerial control

So, Daisy, with her Super Mario Run third jump (or just her other attributes like her air speed/fall speed) can be a contrast to her by giving her:
-Vertical prowess, being able to zone through the air in more directions than Peach's left and right
-More general spacing through big lunges and leaps instead of the micro-spacing the float gives
-Faster air control
-Faster fall speed to directly contrast with Peach's float suspending her in the air

The third jump would automatically give her vertical prowess, faster aerial spacing and less predictable spacing, at the cost of being more at risk and not being able to directly space out moves.

On top of that, a Super Ball/Soccer Ball move could be a decent foil to the Turnips, as the Turnips are slow pelting moves.
The Super Ball could be fast, unpredictable and could be used more to distract or overwhelm an opponent rather than to get in easy damage.

But yeah, you guys seriously need to calm it down, this is exactly what turns people off from Daisy. But to get back on track, if Daisy does end up being a semi-clone I wonder what her meat shield will be. Using Toad might be weird.

I think a generic flower as seen in Mario Kart 8's Flower Glider can spread pollen and be a nice meat shield in that case

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

Can we move on from this topic and talk about something else? All this incoherent debate only harms the character.

What month do you think Smash Bros will be released? What number of new characters will there be in this new game?
I hope there is a Smash Direct.

I think it will be posticiped to 2019, Smash always gets posticiped and 2019 is the 20st anniversary of the series.

 

[RosiePeaches]

I think Waluig

I think it will be posticiped to 2019, Smash always gets posticiped and 2019 is the 20st anniversary of the series.

Seems like this game is pretty far in development for that to happen.

 

[SonicMario]

Just throwing my two cents here, not really a supporter for Daisy here. But I will say that at the very least, I think Daisy is on relatively equal terms with Waluigi. Maybe Waluigi being an assist trophy and arguably more popular would give him the advantage should only one of the two make it.

But to be honest, I feel it's either a "They're both in, or they're both out" situation. If a newcomer trailer for Smash ever took place on a Mario party board, Mario Kart track (Speaking of which, Rainbow Road was used for Rosalina's reveal), or perhaps what would fit most (Because that's where both started their spin-off careers): A tennis court. It might focus on one for a little while but the other would probably follow suit within the same trailer.

I personally like Waluigi alot more, but I feel he and Daisy are very much tied to the hip when it comes to getting playable in Smash. Though at this point I think both are out is still more likely then both are in. I don't see either getting in this Smash. At the very least not in the main game. DLC's proven to be alot less predictable if Smash 4's choices were anything to go by. So who knows once we get there.

 

[Morbi]

I just finished reading every single post in the RTC thread. All of the different formats and colors really hurt my eyes; however, she is definitely doing much better than I expected and there was actually discussion happening which is relatively rare in that thread.

But yeah, you guys seriously need to calm it down, this is exactly what turns people off from Daisy. But to get back on track, if Daisy does end up being a semi-clone I wonder what her meat shield will be. Using Toad might be weird.

She can use Toadette.

 

[YoshiandToad]

But yeah, you guys seriously need to calm it down, this is exactly what turns people off from Daisy. But to get back on track, if Daisy does end up being a semi-clone I wonder what her meat shield will be. Using Toad might be weird.

Potted Piranha Plant. Suits Daisy's flower theme and it's an obvious 'counter' since it'd bite whatever attacks rather than use spores.

 

[RosiePeaches]

Potted Piranha Plant. Suits Daisy's flower theme and it's an obvious 'counter' since it'd bite whatever attacks rather than use spores.

Maybe it can be an attacking move and spit out poison that slows people down? Oh, and to cheer up the mood

Let me in Smash sweetie!

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

I just finished reading every single post in the RTC thread. All of the different formats and colors really hurt my eyes; however, she is definitely doing much better than I expected and there was actually discussion happening which is relatively rare in that thread.


She can use Toadette.

It's annoying but funny at the same time how people are trashing Daisy and defending any other character, some of the points they made were silly lol

 

[Morbi]

Just throwing my two cents here, not really a supporter for Daisy here. But I will say that at the very least, I think Daisy is on relatively equal terms with Waluigi. Maybe Waluigi being an assist trophy and arguably more popular would give him the advantage should only one of the two make it.

But to be honest, I feel it's either a "They're both in, or they're both out" situation. If a newcomer trailer for Smash ever took place on a Mario party board, Mario Kart track (Speaking of which, Rainbow Road was used for Rosalina's reveal), or perhaps what would fit most (Because that's where both started their spin-off careers): A tennis court. It might focus on one for a little while but the other would probably follow suit within the same trailer.

I personally like Waluigi alot more, but I feel he and Daisy are very much tied to the hip when it comes to getting playable in Smash. Though at this point I think both are out is still more likely then both are in. I don't see either getting in this Smash. At the very least not in the main game. DLC's proven to be alot less predictable if Smash 4's choices were anything to go by. So who knows once we get there.

In that case, if they are tied to the hip, perhaps, if Daisy were a clone, she could pull out Waluigi instead of Toad? That is actually a much better idea.

In all seriousness, as someone that ships them, it would be a dream come true if they were a duo character. But, like, literally no one wants that outside of myself.

In general, I am somewhat confident that we will get a sports related move-set this time around unless they opt for Captain Toad or Paper Mario. So I doubt it is an either/or situation myself. If so, that would definitely suck, because I love them both and really want to see one of them playable regardless of the circumstances.

 

[RosiePeaches]

I think we will get both of them. They deserve it after being in all kinds of games, and unlike a lot of other "spin-off" characters, they stand out.