the rundown on competitive play please

[xaiayx]

Alright to start off this thread I'm going to say I'm quite good with Ike because I've been playing him most of the time whenever I turn on Brawl on my Wii. I'm getting bored with fighting the CPU's as it's not as satisfying as playing a living human being, although the challenge of level a level 7 CPU does keep me entertained. I would like to get into competitive Brawling with Ike as my main.

Currently my lineup of most often used characters is as follows.

Main: Ike
Secondary:Marth(lol fire emblem chars)
For Fun: Lucario

What I really want to ask in this thread is the following.

1. Is there a certain most common used play style with Ike for actual competing?

2. I've heard a guy named Kirk is the only one to win a Tourny with Ike alone. Does that mean it's near impossible to Tourny with him?

3. Can I be a formidable opponent in competitions without doing heavy amounts of edge gaurding?


About question 3. I happen to try and stay away from it because I find it cheap when it's just about the only thing a person does. However I use it every now and then in those situations where it's like "Okay, just gtfo please." and I have no other options. But typically I stick to basic knockouts.

Honestly I'm a self taught Ike player. I've learned most of what I know from watching videos on youtube and adapting to the flow of battle as I turned up the difficulty on the Computer Player. That said, although I'm not half bad I'm sure every respectable and skilled Ike player would call my "strategy" noobish and subpar. I plan to make a video of myself playing this weekend, which will help get feedback on where I need improvement.

Hope all this text wasn't too much. Looking forward to whatever support I get.

 

[theeboredone]

For starters. If you have only been playing CPU's and a Level 7 keeps you "entertained", you are in for one looong journey.

Ike is not a good character to use if you want to win tournaments. As the number of contestants and hype of the event increases, your chances of winning with Ike decrease as well. Winning local tournaments is probable, but even that can proven to be difficult. Some Ike players on these boards (like me) have placed in the top 3 at a local tournament, but failed to get anywhere close in a 100 man tournament. Ike can fair well against the mid tier to lower tier characters, but fails hard against the upper tiers. Most big tournaments consist of players using the upper tiers. While you may not be able to contemplate or imagine why my statements are so negative, when you play competitively, you learn about it rather easily. To be honest, you are better off mastering Marth in comparison to Ike.

As far as your questions go.

1. A lot of Ike players use some traditional set ups such as a N-Air (Neutral Air) to jab combo. Ike players also enjoy doing Jab to grab as well. However, various Ike players play differently. Some are more aggressive than others, and some tend to sit back and find what the opponent is doing wrong. However, the most important key of success with Ike is to learn how to read your opponents. By this, you gotta figure out their habits and tendencies on the fly, and then think of a way to counter them. The lower tier character you are, the more thinking you'll have to do.

2. Yea, I think Kirk is the only one to actually win tournaments per say, but there have been Ike players who have placed anywhere from 2-10. Of course, this is local tournaments only. With that being said, refer to my first paragraph on the chances of winning with Ike. Also, depending on where you live, your region may consist of tougher brawl competition.

3. No. Edge guarding is a must. There is no "honor" or respect to your opponent. You do what you have to do to win. You are playing for money, glory, recognition. They could care less about playing with respect. However, I will add that Ike's edge guarding game is below average. He has very few moves he can use off stage. Even then, if you miss your attack, your opponent can very easily counter you or "gimp" (to make you recover back on stage impossible) you. Edge guarding with Ike goes hand in hand with who your opponent is, and how you are reading them.

If you need anything else. Just feel free to post another question. If it's something regarding Ike's abilities in terms of gameplay or his best moves, please ask in Ashu's library. We've been stuck in boredom for the past few days with nothing to talk about.

 

[PentaSalia]

i've seen some of the other character boards make separate threads for their hardest/most common match ups for further discussion. Plus i think the ike vs snake/marth/MK match up deserve their own thread o.o.


maybe ya'll should do that too D:.



and lol @ the irony in question 3=/
More like our opponents don't give ike respect
lolgimp._.

 

[Palpi]

Lets talk about me!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Actually bored, I think someone else has won as Ike in a tournament. San maybe?

 

[Watkins]

I would think an Ike only players success in a tournament takes a large combination of luck and skill, because when you start getting paired against good MKs and Falcos winning streaks can end pretty fast.

 

[King of Sack]

I would think an Ike only players success in a tournament takes a large combination of luck and skill, because when you start getting paired against good MKs and Falcos winning streaks can end pretty fast.

I love facing top tier with Ike! It feels so good when I annihilate them! :D

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I love facing top tier with Ike! It feels so good when I annihilate them! :D

Then you are playing lousy players. >_>

 

[xaiayx]

Hmmm, I see. I still have great determination to be good enough with Ike to win Tourny's. But will continue to practice my Marth gameplay alongside my Ike. I'll also get on top of my Edge Gaurding and try and up my regular CPU gameplay difficulty to 9 ASAP. 7 is quite the challenge for me right now, but using air attacks I think I'd be that much better.

Thanks for the info all. That video will be done soon so I can get some major criticism on my gameplay.

 

[Watkins]

To be honest, if you're having trouble with computers you have a long way to go. If you can, try to play some human players who are better than you who can tell you what you're doing wrong and that will help you get better a lot faster.

 

[Nysyarc]

I'll also get on top of my Edge Gaurding and try and up my regular CPU gameplay difficulty to 9 ASAP.

Don't bother. Instead, get WiFi for your Wii and start adding friend codes. Check out All Is Brawl (a website) and do some free play matches against other players so you can get the feel of different matchups and how competitive players play the game. Playing against CPUs won't get you anywhere. Try to get involved in your local smash scene, going to tourneys and smashfests and such. Even if you do badly at first, it's worth the experience.

I found a Facebook group for my local smash community. If you don't live in a particularly popular area for smash you may be able to find something by doing a search on Facebook or whatever. Point is, you need to start playing against other players who are serious about smash, not just your friends who play the game casually and who you can beat by spamming Fsmashes.

If you can't find anything offline locally, or you don't think you're ready for that yet, WiFi can get you the matchup experience and will let you familiarize yourself with Ike's moveset and controls until you feel confident.

 

[metroid1117]

Don't bother. Instead, get WiFi for your Wii and start adding friend codes. Check out All Is Brawl (a website) and do some free play matches against other players so you can get the feel of different matchups and how competitive players play the game. Playing against CPUs won't get you anywhere. Try to get involved in your local smash scene, going to tourneys and smashfests and such. Even if you do badly at first, it's worth the experience.

If you can't find anything offline locally, or you don't think you're ready for that yet, WiFi can get you the matchup experience and will let you familiarize yourself with Ike's moveset and controls until you feel confident.

This. In terms of getting better at Brawl, the best ways are to (1) go to tournaments and Smashfests, (2) watch videos, (3) play with competitive friends, (4) play in Training Mode, or (5) play Wi-fi. Playing Wi-fi, while it reeks of lag, is better than not playing at all and playing with computers. You should never play against computers because they will get you into bad habits; admittedly, the AI is significantly better than Melee's, but they are still stupid and very easy to beat once you get good.

Bored did a good job of answering your questions, but I'm going to give my own input on question 3, edgeguarding.

"Cheap is a scrub's term for efficiency" is what a player named The King said; in competitive play, the only thing you should worry about is winning, like what Bored said. If it helps you win, you should do it. Also, the game rules support edgeguarding; unlike traditional fighting games, you only die if you get knocked out of the boundaries *or* if you fall off the stage. If the goal is to make your opponent die, then you should obviously try to keep them off the stage. While you can argue that the game developers didn't want edgeguarding to be a part of the game with the addition of auto-sweetspotting and the difficulty in edgehogging, the rules still point to edgeguarding as the most efficient way to win a match. Also, it just makes the game more interesting; it forces both you and the opponent to think more about what you think your opponent will do and what you should do to counter their actions. Lastly, it makes the matches significantly shorter - the average competitive Brawl game is about 4-5 minutes, and that's with edgeguarding; without edgeguarding, a single match could take up to 6 or even 7 minutes and make it near-impossible to finish a tournament on time.

 

[Nysyarc]

(5) play Wi-fi.

I just want to stress that you shouldn't play in With Anyone mode for WiFi. That's just free for all nonsense with items and scrubs. You need to find competitive players from here in SWF and add their friend codes. Going to the Online Tournament Listings forum and signing up for some tourneys is a good way to make friends with competitive players and get some matchup experience.

But remember, WiFi is a last resort. It worked to help me improve my game, but because of the lag, it may not work for everyone. If you don't have the means to play people offline very often, resorting to WiFi isn't a bad option as long as you realize that it's only to learn your character's moveset and match-ups with other characters. Don't familiarize yourself with buffering and timing tricky techniques online unless you never plan to attend offline tourneys.

 

[xaiayx]

I do have the means to play WiFi, didn't do it really because With Anyone mode was most unpleasant all the times I used it. So I'll take that advice and get to grabbing friend codes. Also I want to put this out there.

I don't have my CPU turned up to 9 when I'm doing 4 players with computer. If it's a 1v1 I have it on 9. Does that make any difference in how much further a journey I have to being good competitive brawl player?

That aside, I get the point regarding Edge Gaurding being necessary, I was practicing it the other day when I played in fact. Are there any specific videos I could watch to pick some of that up? I find Rykoshets video's had some good clips but I'm looking for more examples.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Playing computers at all makes a difference on the length of your "journey", as we seem to call it. No matter what, playing against CPU is going to make you develop bad habits, and they'll become so engraved into your mind that when you play against a human player, it will take you a long time to recognize that you are being punished for such habits.
Not to mention, free for all games are all for the lulz around here. 1v1 and 2v2 are the only ways to get real practice in-- and are the only typed of games you'll ever see in a legitimate tourney.

Also, practice spacing as much as you can to get it into your mind. Spacing is extremely important with Ike. Try to hit opponents with the tip of your sword every time to minimize the likelihood of being punished for a blocked or whiffed attack (speaking most specifically about Ike's neutral aerial and forward aerial--- which are two moves you may find yourself using a lot once you can use them properly).

Edge guarding-- just read your opponent's recovery if you can and do whatever move works (if any) to counter what they're doing.

Videos-- you can see some cool stuff off of combo videos, but don't put everything from a combo video into your normal gameplay. I'm half asleep right now and am just thinking off the top of my head, but a few good Ikes to watch that I think keep new game videos constant are Kirk, Rykoshet, San (San 3711), and Kimchi (IlovekimchixD). (Anyone feel free to add to my list.)

 

[theeboredone]

That aside, I get the point regarding Edge Gaurding being necessary, I was practicing it the other day when I played in fact. Are there any specific videos I could watch to pick some of that up? I find Rykoshets video's had some good clips but I'm looking for more examples.

There are only a handful of moves you can use with Ike to edge guard...Remember if the enemy dodges any of them, you are most likely gonna die.

F-Air: Walk off the edge and do said attack. You can hit the enemy, double jump towards the stage and aether back up.

Up-Air: Walk off the edge and do said attack. Make sure you don't end up doing a double jump during this sequence. It's only real use is if the opponent has a lot of damage, or you want to deal more damage. Can also be used to hurt Fox, Falco, Lucario's recovery.

D-Air: This is your spike move. It's very difficult to do if you have your C-Stick set to default settings. Ike will automatically fast fall off the edge, and you will kill yourself. You can learn to do this manually by slightly tilting the analog stick down as you prepare to fall off the edge. Or you can take the easy path and set the C-Stick to "Attack". This will turn your C-Stick into the "tilt" moves which consist of basically tilting your control stick in a certain direction and proceeding to attack. This will also eliminate the fast fall effect of D-Air. However, keep in mind that having your C-Stick set to "Attack" will make it harder to smash DI and survive certain attacks. Another way you can use D-Air is when you are hanging on the edge. If an opponent is directly below you and trying to recover via vertically, simply input this command at the right time...

Down** (Causes fast fall), Jump (y), D-Air.

See bottom of post for explanation on the 2*

B-Air: This move is primarily used when you are currently hanging on the edge. If an opponent approaches you with either a jump or recovery move, you can quickly let go of the edge and do b-air by putting this input in (or at least what I do).

*Hanging on edge* Down**, jump, B-Air.

I prefer to jump with the X or Y button since it's more likely to register on your controller than pressing Down, then Up on the analog stick. Use this move for a good horizontal kill or to simply keep your enemies at bay. However, don't make a habit out of this. It's easy to read. Once you finish your move, just aether back up.

Aether Spike: Hang on the edge, watch as your opponent gets ready to come towards you. When he is close enough, fall down enough from the edge until you can measure the aether rising up barely above the stage. This way, if the opponent grabs the edge, you can hold back and recover on stage and not die. By making yourself low enough beneath the stage, this means that the Aether "Spike" is guaranteed to hit. Incase you didn't know, it's the end part of the Aether when Ike is coming down. However, do note that if you want to spike the opponent, you cannot land on the stage. You have to go for the edge, which Ike will automatically grab. If you don't perform Aether at a good enough height, then the chances of missing the spike or your opponent magically grabbing the edge are more likely.

Invincible Frames: I Don't know the exact term for this, but this is pretty simple. All you have to do while hanging on the edge is take note of how long Ike will stay invincible to attacks. You will see him shine somewhat which marks him invincible to attacks. You can refresh this by simply pressing...

While hanging on the edge...Down**, Y

Bam, invincible frames restored. What this does is that if an opponent is using his recovery for the edge. You will already be hanging on, and your invincible frames will protect you if the recovery move has an attack. Watch your enemy fall to his death.


Foot Stool: People don't take this move seriously, but quite frankly, it works like a charm. This is similar to when your opponent is below you, and you don't want to risk a D-Air for some reason. All you do is...

When opponent is directly below you, and you are hanging on edge...

Down**, approach the top of the enemy, jump (y), and recover with aether.

Then you laugh.

I think I covered almost everything...if there is anything else...feel free to add in.


** denotes you can hold the down button after you fast fall. The jump with the y button will still register.

While this may seem like a lot and a bit confusing...it's not. All it takes is practice, experimentation, and failure to get a grasp on what works in certain situations, and what doesn't.

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh and if you're having any problems with any of the funky words and Brawl lingo we use, just let us know and we'll clear it up. Lurking around the forums will usually help you to understand all the little terms we use but for some abbreviations you really have to ask.

 

[xaiayx]

Alright, thanks for the info, I had been trying primarily to use F-Air and D-Air during edge gaurding aside from Aether. Knowing the others can be used will help out.