The Rosalina Match-Up Discussion Thread

[Parcheesy]

I don't think experience against one, or even a few Rosalina mains is enough to call the entire match-up though.

The thing about Rosalina that people don't realise is that she has a ton of utility and can be played in a lot of different ways. Some Rosalina players have a very set in stone playstyle, which means they have trouble against specific characters. However, me personally, I don't have trouble against any specific character as Rosalina, except for a high Aura Lucario (and that's because high Aura Lucario is straight up BS no matter who you're playing as). Because I don't have a set in stone way of using her, I generally just go with the flow.

I generally just need some time to develop as many ways as possible to play against different characters, and then I start beating them. And that's going with online play, I'd be able to handle some characters (like high Aura Lucario) a lot better if I didn't have to deal with input lag or anything, which has the noticeable effect of screwing up my air dodges (a very underrated tool of Rosalina's).

While I don't mean this in a way against Parcheesy or anything, nobody should ever say they have the Rosalina match up down from just playing one or a few Rosalina mains. One Rosalina player may play totally differently than another. This applies to other characters, but tenfold to Rosalina.

- It's going to be hard to have matchup discussions without using our subjective experience, but I'll try to keep any evidence I site based on facts on how the different moves interact.

- I couldn't agree more. I'd like to think I'm playing the character more aggressive than most, so I often have issues in matchups that Rosalina should win ( Donkey Kong and his strong anti-airs get me too often >_> ). The amount of ways you can play this character is truly unrivaled. ( PS: The landing lag for his Up+B on stage is huge post patch. It's like whiffed smash attack huge, definitely made the matchup so much easier for me )

- I mainly played PM prior to Smash4, so I still need to condition myself to air dodge more. You're right in that it's a strong tool to utilize.

Sending Luma out towards him makes things even worse for him, since now he has to deal with a fighter at close range whom doing damage to is irrelevant. Pretty much anything he does to Luma will get punished by Rosalina at this point. You can even use U-Tilt to make Luma dodge his projectiles (a technique I practice against many characters). So "just shoot Luma" isn't as surefire a strategy as it sounds.

- More on topic, I'm genuinely curious how you make this work. There doesn't seem to be a range where the Luma is far enough away that Megaman is using projectiles, yet close enough that sending him out is actually threatening him. The up tilt dodge trick is really fun to use though. It definitely makes you feel skilled when a brawler like Shiek tries to fight your Luma and Luma ends up winning.

 

[mario123007]

Sonic actually does not have an inability to KO at all in this game. He had is knockback and power buffed A LOT from Brawl.

That being said, I actually don't have too much trouble against him. You can shield grab his spinning, and you can screw up his Homing Attack since the game also counts Luma as a target, and that leaves him wide open (and generally will not KO Luma either). Those two things make things a lot easier for Rosalina than they might otherwise be. Plus, once you get him into the air, Rosalina's aerial range outclasses him, even moreso if Luma is linked.

Sonic's most powerful KO ability has to be his Up Smash, unlike Brawl it was weak, it is very powerful that I often use it as a final KO attack.

 

[Brickbuild101]

Uh...goddess battle...!

 

[Smasher89]

Gravitational pull is nice against Ness recovery, thats the only thing atm i know in the matchup for real.

 

[ThatsWhatSheSaid]

First time whipping out my secret Rosie for competitive friendly's last night...I was annoyed by this matchup. Your mileage may vary. Rosalina' probably still better and I only really got one set in, but what I can say for certain is G&W using the key offstage really messes with Rosie Up B since there's no offense.

 

[Hacky]

I've personally had slight trouble with this matchup, specifically in securing the kill. Ill go even on damage the entire game, but Ill lose the last hit-last stock matches more often than not. I faced a Shulk main in R1 of a 60+ entrant regional in central florida and lost the set 2-0, both going to a last hit game (that Shulk ended up getting to WF and finished 3rd and I got to LSF and got 4th). The biggest problem that I had was his ridiculously long-lasting hitboxes on FSmash and Dash Attack. These are generally great tools for Shulk, in general, but I feel RosaLuma has an especially hard time with them for the fact that they hit Luma rather reliably. I played the same player in friendlies afterwards and tried out some of my theorycraft on him to pretty decent success. Dealing FSmash is the biggest problem because it is just giant. Starbits are going to be huge in this matchup (especially if LumaLaser would be legal because it is a far superior tool for this). Aside from simply rolling or jumping away (holding shield against it will often make you lose Luma), Starbits are a great interrupting tool against FSmash and Dash Attack, especially if you walking pivot away from him before doing so.

Avoid UpB at all costs. That last hit is so deceiving that it often catches players off guard (much like the exploding UpB of Bowser Jr). Even though this may not be a problem for most competitive players, especially after extensive practice with the MU, I figured it was still noteworthing. That being said, if you are going to go off stage to harass/gimp, do it early and far. RosaLuma has a great recovery in this situation because the vulnerability of it doesnt matter so long as the other player is busy recovering, too. If they are in UpB range before you have the chance to chase off the stage, do one of two things: Stay away completely if youre wanting to play completely safe (learn the last hit range because it pokes through the stage well) or already be in the air ready to fastfall steal the ledge and follow accordingly (usually Bair).

I could see Jab being a very important tool in this MU, but I only got about 5-6 games with the good Shulk, so I cannot definitively say so. But it would be used for the same reason as starbits - to interrupt and annoycamp.

Always get him above you at any possible opportunity. UAir is an incredibly good move in this MU (as well as pretty much any others besides maybe Pac and Megaman due to the downwards projectiles they have). Mix up your UAir timing. Double jump timing is absolutely vital for this, so pick your opportunities very wisely.

Overall, I say that after this MU is figured out, it is slightly in our favor, probably +1 (default MU)

 

[Hacky]

I've found the best way to approach it is to not have a neutral game whatsoever. From the moment he spawns, you should be trying to take a stock for the simple fact that it really is easy to do. Once he's offstage without his second jump, Ness just dies to the magnificence that is Rosalina's down-b IWinButton. Just play the matchup like Little Mac with a projectile, and you shouldn't have any problems taking the win. Probably one of Rosalina's best matchups.

I agree with this being comparable to Little Mac except against Ness, stay on the ground more or at least retreat your bair/fair/nair to avoid the grab. But yeah, off stage, his stock is done.

 

[Hacky]

Aside from everyone knowing that Little Mac is beaten by just getting him off the stage, this MU is hugely in our favor.

The basic setup you want to have is a non charged Lumashot to the middle of the stage while you are behind it and Mac on the other side. Harass with Starbits/Jab to keep him from running right through straight to you. The absolute key to this is to not frametrap yourself into giving him opportunities to pass it. If you are stuck in your jab animation (because youre jabbing with Luma) or are just spamming starbits, he can easily jump over or use his ridiculous superarmor to do huge damage to Luma.
So dealing with those two options that he now has, if he is going to use superarmor to hit Luma, neutral b it back and either reshoot it or follow accordingly. If he is to jump, which is what you want, the best option is to fair towards Luma then retreat it to attempt to keep the same positioning I previously mentioned. If you can keep him in the air to juggle, obviously go with that because he cant do anything in the air, but keeping the initial positioning is still a great option. Throwing in RAR'ed BAirs to mix up when he chooses to jump over, especially if hes in kill %. If he does get through, though, he is going to instantly be aggro and try to hit you. Shield grab->BThrow (youre already close to the ledge with your back to it). Now theyre off the ledge, GG.

 

[Hacky]

This matchup has to be +2 for RosaLuma, easily. If not, guaranteed +1. If you just camp her, she cant do anything. Her projectile (side B?) is way too slow to be useful - its a slow startup, so you can DownB on reaction and dont have to read it, and it also has so much ending lag that said DownB is safe at most distances.

UAir is ridiculous, so chase hard with it. Read Air Dodges

Avoid getting stuck in your Lumashot animation and if you do, immediately shield as soon as you can after releasing it or else its getting sent right back in your face (same with anything else that can reflect it)

Also avoid her UAir. It kills incredibly early. I dropped a game at a regional in LR6 (http://smashboards.com/rankings/fall-brawl-smash-4.3092/event) to a Palutena that killed me at 61% off the top on non-transition Delfino just above the top platform (albeit she was at in rage)

Palutena doesnt have a lot of options to stop our Dash Attack, which is already incredible, so use that to scoop them up and just string together honestly whatever you see fit.

 

[warriorman222]

Yeah, is the unusable clay pigeon glitch still there? If so, Duck Hunt is screwed. If not, Duck Hunt is screwed. You have a personal shield that absorbs his projectiles, and your superior close range beats out his strong aerials. Ths shouldn't be a hard matchup for Rosalina.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Yeah, is the unusable clay pigeon glitch still there? If so, Duck Hunt is screwed. If not, Duck Hunt is screwed. You have a personal shield that absorbs his projectiles, and your superior close range beats out his strong aerials. Ths shouldn't be a hard matchup for Rosalina.

I agree. Even assuming the glitch is fixed, Rosalina shuts down Trick Shot and Clay Shooting completely at anything past close range, which forces Duck Hunt to approach and rely on the Gunmen. (I don't think we can absorb their shots, someone correct me if that's wrong.)

That said, I imagine it would be fairly easy for Duck Hunt to aim for Luma. It's projectiles may be worthless against Rosalina but Luma has nothing to defend itself with, so it's an easy target if they're separated. Which, you know, is par for the course when it comes to Luma, but Duck Hunt doesn't have to be anywhere near it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It's important when discussing Palutena to consider that she has a lot of different specials. I believe the current set a lot of people like is Explosive Flame/Super Speed/Jump Glide/Lightweight. That turns her into a heavy rushdown character with a projectile we can't shield (!) or absorb.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think the only thing that salvages this slightly is the duck disjoint and maybe attempting to poke Luma if Rosalina gets anywhere close to confident about her options. Otherwise yeah this is a pretty ****e matchup for Doggie. He can probably win but it's gonna take a lot of really hard reads and he has to omit one of his best aspects, his projectiles.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The bit about not frame trapping yourself is an important point in general, really, but especially against Little Mac since he's so freaking fast and hits like a truck. I need to work on that.

 

[ChikoLad]

Assuming the glitch is gone, it's still very much an uphill battle for poor little Peepers. Aside from what has been said, DHD has an absolutely terrible recovery against strong air fighters like Rosalina. I mean, people talk about Launch Star like it's terrible, but it at least has speed, split second angling, and utility, making Rosalina relatively hard to hit. DHD's recovery is just...abysmal, in this match up anyway.

 

[Gameboi834]

As a Falcon secondary user, I can say that Star Bits would easily gimp a lot of my options if timed correctly.

 

[Parcheesy]

As a Falcon secondary user, I can say that Star Bits would easily gimp a lot of my options if timed correctly.

I've actually never tried that, thanks for the insight. It's nice having this cooperation between all the character boards; it doubles the speed at which we can discuss these matchups.

 

[icraq]

As a Falcon secondary user, I can say that Star Bits would easily gimp a lot of my options if timed correctly.

i've heard mentions of starbits used as an edgeguard, but never seen it in practice. what makes it effective? it has little knockback. why not just dair?

 

[nightSN]

This imo is the hardest match up for rosalina:
-Laser can stop most approaches
-ROB has quicker aerials
-ROB can kill rosalina on top of a stage with up air at around 80%
-Lots of options out of ROB's low lag aerials that aren't punishable
-ROB offstage is a huge threat to Rosalina

 

[mario123007]

Both Rosalina and Mr.G&W has a powerful Smash attack and side air attack. Mr.G&W's moves is very unpredictable sometimes so better watch out when you use Rosalina to face Mr.G&W.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I find MM to be quite an odd matchup as down B actually isn't very effective, despite MM's reliance on projectiles. He simply has too many, with very little lag. However, I've found a 'rushdown' method can be very effective, heavily using DA. This require sacrificing Luma as a meatshield, but is nevertheless still successful. Once in range of a DA, most of his projectiles are not able to hit both Rosalina and Luma, with too much lag to be able to hit twice. However, when not in range, I can use an uncharged luma shot with a couple of side Bs to rack up a bit of damage. The only really troublesome attack MM has is Crash Bomber, able to quickly blast away Luma at a moderate distance. Then I generally jump over them, a bit closer, so that one of the above techniques can work. Landing can be a bit difficult, but is mostly successful. I feel this matchup is definitely in Rosalina's favour, just not sure how much. Maybe 60-40/70-30?

 

[Steam]

back pre-patch this was probably like... 6-4 Rosalina or even more in her favor. Lucario had no answer for short hop nair and rosalina was rosalina. The nair isn't really a huge issue anymore by itself but it's really solid still. On top of that Rosa has a longer luma respawn and still dies hilariously early if Lucario has aura.

Despite the nerfs, Rosalina still runs lucario over in neutral when she has luma. The throw combos lucario normally has don't work unless the upthrow happens to hit luma as well, otherwise luma will hit you out of the follow up. In general lucario wants luma off of rosa, because when rosa is solo lucario can combo/juggle her for days at low% and go for oodles of kill setups at high%. Neutral gets turned on its head though at high aura, sideB flame can be used to rack damage on luma from half way across the stage, and kill it somewhat safely. No rosalina's going to let this happen, but it does force her to approach with her limited tools to do so. It's also worth noting that it's not too hard to survive to very high% as lucario in matchup. Rosalina has no incredibly strong kill moves and usually needs both luma and a read to kill at 100%. Lucario at high aura will wind up killing luma in a few hits and can kill rosalina stupid early due to her light weight. despite all this, Rosalina's overall strength with luma at neutral carries her very far in this matchup like it does in all the others. Lucario struggles to do much of anything until he's at high aura, but is in control once he hits that point. this matchup will mostly come down to who is more clutch.

It's tough to put a ratio on this matchup but it's probably not too far from 50-50 post patch.

 

[icraq]

You can even use U-Tilt to make Luma dodge his projectiles (a technique I practice against many characters).

Ha, that's great, I never thought of doing that. It's nice to still be able to find new tricks like this.

 

[Gameboi834]

i've heard mentions of starbits used as an edgeguard, but never seen it in practice. what makes it effective? it has little knockback. why not just dair?

Well, as an edgeguard Dair would probably be better, but Falcons tend to be a bit anxious. So Star Bits, which are mostly just annoying more than anything else, would really get under the Falcon's skin after a while, leading to poor decisions.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Gravitational Pull instantly makes the Gyro yours even if you don't pick it up, I think. Although I'm sure any decent ROB knows what to do with a Gyro under enemy control.

The laser also has a specific tell where ROB pulls his head back but you need to watch him to catch it, it looks like fsmash.

 

[Warlock*G]

Well, as an edgeguard Dair would probably be better, but Falcons tend to be a bit anxious. So Star Bits, which are mostly just annoying more than anything else, would really get under the Falcon's skin after a while, leading to poor decisions.

No.

Edit: No, because the twinkling stars are cute.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I moved all the posts that were in the individual character match-up threads into this thread for posterity purposes. The match-up system that I designed wasn't going to work out as planned.

I guess I'll try to do an approach that's similar to how the Lucina sub-forum handles its match-up discussions. Hopefully it'll be a more tolerable system.