Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[The King of Skulls]

That is the Model from smash in comparison to Samus and ZSS, which is was already set, as per SSE

The point being? The SSE made ALL the bosses bigger than average(well, only Ridleys and Rayquaza. Ray was a tad too long.)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That is the Model from smash in comparison to Samus and ZSS, which is was already set, as per SSE

No actually...

That was made by @Angelglory when he tried to make a picture of average canon sizes (which were everywhere).

SSE had nothing to do with it.

 

[False Sense]

That is the Model from smash in comparison to Samus and ZSS, which is was already set, as per SSE

Ah, you're bringing in the "set size" argument. Well, there are a number of ways to respond to that. For one, Ridley also appeared in the Melee opening at a much smaller size than in Brawl, so his size hasn't been consistent throughout Smash. There's also the fact that Smash is not canon to sizes; they'll do whatever they want with sizes to make a character playable. Then there's the idea that the Ridley that would likely appear as a playable character in Smash would be the Other M Ridley, which is not only a different design of Ridley that is noticeably smaller than usual, but is also a clone of the original. Going by that, it's possible for clone Ridley to be playable, while the original Ridley is technically unchanged, so there is absolutely no issue with canon here.

@ Swamp Sensei He was responding to me responding to his picture of Brawl Ridley compared to Samus. He wasn't referring to Angelglory's comparisons.

 

[Morbi]

Why are models even relevant?

Nope. "It can be resized" isn't an opinion, it's a reality. Anything can be resized, anything at all, it's just a question of whether Sakurai or any other developer in charge elects to do so.

I'm all for civility here, but let's not break our arms trying to pat everyone on the back pretending "their points are valid."

Also, yes, mods are now watching this thread. Proceed with caution.

I feel as though this logic perfectly summarized the argument before it even began.

 

[Luigi#1]

That is the Model from smash in comparison to Samus and ZSS, which is was already set, as per SSE

Smash has no real canon. you can have a character at a different height in the 2 installments.
Also welcome, you seem to be more intellectual than the normal "Hur dur he's too big" person.

 

[ddd87]

Unlike everyone in the playable roster, Ridley wouldnt need to be standing straight up, his stance could be similar to Melee's Bowser, leaning forward, plus with his legs flexed.
In the air he would be trickier, but I can see him being more horizontal with his legs more flexed to minimize his vertical frame. He could spread out a little when getting hit.

 

[CometX-ing]

Speaking of misshapen...Limbs grow while attacking. I feel shape of the character doesn't matter.

Thats purley attack effect, its not something they are stuck with.

 

[False Sense]

Thats purley attack effect, its not something they are stuck with.

Well, I don't think any character is really stuck with their size. Certainly not Ridley.

 

[OblivionWolf]

Unlike everyone in the playable roster, Ridley wouldnt need to be standing straight up, his stance could be similar to Melee's Bowser, leaning forward, plus with his legs flexed.
In the air he would be trickier, but I can see him being more horizontal with his legs more flexed to minimize his vertical frame. He could spread out a little when getting hit.

I fully expect Ridley to have the same posture as Donkey Kong.

If Donkey Kong stood straight up and wasn't bending his knee's as much he would be taller then Bowser by a good amount.

 

[Deleted member]

Thats purley attack effect, its not something they are stuck with.

Well, since Ridley is already such a large character, and since we're assuming that his in-game model will be similar in size (if not a little larger) to Bowser. It's plausible that Ridley could just have very minimized or no "stretching" or limb growth during his attacks as compensation for his already very large model. In this way Ridley would still be one of the larger models, yes, but if he doesn't have any sort of limb growth during his attacks then I don't see how his size would be cumbersome.

 

[ddd87]

Thats purley attack effect, its not something they are stuck with.

Right, it also could mean that proportions are flexible enough if a character requires it.

 

[CometX-ing]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

Right, it also could mean that proportions are flexible enough if a character requires it.

No that means they only wanted that extra effect to give it some more, expression or feeling.

 

[False Sense]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

Again, all the other instances of characters who have been (sometimes drastically) resized to be in Smash.

Simply going by past precedent, it seems that their intention with adding characters in is not to keep them faithful to their original sizes, but to make them workable as playable characters, even if that means changing their size. I see no reason why Ridley is an exception.

 

[Morbi]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

They wouldn't be able to stay as "faithful" as possible though, isn't that the inherent problem? Ridley would most likely be more reminiscent of the Melee intro than his "faithful" size if he were playable.

 

[OblivionWolf]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

.....But giant Pikachu....

 

[Luigi#1]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

Staying faithful as possible being used as a reason to exclude a character kills of Cpt. Falcon.

 

[IsmaR]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

So...they can't stay faithful to the games in where his size wasn't "that big of a deal?"

Melee intro Ridley seems to be an amalgamation of both the original Metroid size (barely bigger than Samus) and Super Metroid (a little under twice her size). Granted there is more games/sizes to take into account now, the same is also true for Bowser, who has only grown bigger and bigger in all canon/main series Mario games. Despite that there's still no issues whatsoever when he's resized for spin-offs.

 

[The King of Skulls]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

Faithful? Pretty sure Ganondorf's never punched someone, or took judo from Cpt. Falcon.

Also, "not as big a deal" implies that his size is a deal in the first place, which it honestly isn't.

 

[SvartWolf]

No that means they only wanted that extra effect to give it some more, expression or feeling.

which means that proportions can be altered if it solves something, in the case of mario or diddy, i believe that its not only expression, but also giving them a more workable range to work in the game and not being underpowered. their normal models wouldnt allow them so much range and would be terrible design if the attack visuals didn't coincide with the actual hitboxes.

look at marth, or link, who doesn't have this quirks while attacking, because they dont need the extra range, and toon link who is also cartoonish and not with realistic proportions doesn't have notable deformations that i remember at least.

In other words, if changing the proportions solves actual gameplay problems, is all fair game. and if ridley wings are too big, they can always be rescales down sightly, and probably anyone would even notice.

 

[CometX-ing]

Staying faithful as possible being used as a reason to exclude a character kills of Cpt. Falcon.

I don't mean moveset wise

.....But giant Pikachu....

Pikachu may be giant but his proportions remain intact and his shape are not off, like I said sizing up a character almost always works.

 

[Luigi#1]

I don't mean moveset wise

So...they only want to stay faithful with size and nothing else. Seems legit.

 

[False Sense]

I don't mean moveset wise

Even then, the Smash series has already proven it really doesn't care about staying faithful to a character's original size. So, I have to ask again, why is Ridley the exception?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Everything intact, he's slightly crouched and would most likely crouch more in an actual fighting pose, and he doesn't look off at all. Boom, done, can we stop this bias discussion please?

 

[AndreaAC]

xD I did what I could...

 

[CometX-ing]

which means that proportions can be altered if it solves something, in the case of mario or diddy, i believe that its not only expression, but also giving them a more workable range to work in the game and not being underpowered. their normal models wouldn't allow them so much range and would be terrible design if the attack visuals didn't coincide with the actual hitboxes.

look at marth, or link, who doesn't have this quirks while attacking, because they dont need the extra range, and toon link who is also cartoonish and not with realistic proportions doesn't have notable deformations that i remember at least.

In other words, if changing the proportions solves actual gameplay problems, is all fair game. and if ridley wings are too big, they can always be rescales down sightly, and probably anyone would even notice.

The reason the sword users are not exaggerated is because they use sword and not their fist, no sword user has their sword puffed up when attacking.

 

[Arcanir]

All I really have to say to the Ridley from the smash intro is that he was that way because that was the older Ridley and at the time Ridley's size was not that big of a deal most for them because it was just an into, but a playable character I would assume they would want to stay as faithful as possible.

As Ismar said, in the original franchise, his size was never that big a deal. Hell, in Prime 3, they went from him being huge enough to eat Samus whole in the first battle, to being Meta Ridley's size in Prime (where he's not nearly that large) in the second. If size was that important to the character, then they would've kept him at the original size they introduced them, but they didn't care at all. To them, size didn't matter that much to the character.

So if the canon games are already loose with his size, why should a non-canon game that is already expected to be loose with canon not be able to resize him?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't think it's so much the fact that Ridley is "Too Big" that is the problem here.

What I believe is the issue at heart here, is that the fact that Ridley MIGHT be a boss on Pyrosphere is heavily contested...when it flat out makes sense.

That's not to say that Ridley's popularity doesn't matter, because he's got quite a bit of support. But take the popularity off to the side for a second, and think about what Ridley is. Yes, he's the most iconic antagonist from Metroid. Yes, he's got the ideal unique properties we'd like to see in a newcomer. But at his core, what is he?

He is an iconic, larger than most Boss character. Which makes him ideal for the Boss fights like Yellow Devil showcased in the Direct. I'm not posting this to say that he IS without a doubt a boss, but moreso to point out that it DOES make sense in that train of thought. Ridley is the most iconic villain of Metroid, and is a larger boss character. Just as he appeared as a boss in SSE in Brawl, he makes sense to use as a boss in Smash Wii U, ESPECIALLY because this is a brand new thing Sakurai will likely want to push. Ridley is a front running Boss character. This isn't to say he can't be playable, but to say that he makes complete sense to be a Boss Fight character in this game, like it or not.

Before you say, "What about Bowser?" Or "Bowser confirmed for stage boss". I can explain that.

You see, Bowser...is mother****ing Bowser. Ridley has NOTHING on Bowser.

 

[IsmaR]

@ CometX-ing - Please refrain from double posting/posting multiple times in a row.

@ Scoliosis Jones - That's not what we're discussing right now. And I think you're missing the point.

 

[CometX-ing]

Everything intact, he's slightly crouched and would most likely crouch more in an actual fighting pose, and he doesn't look off at all. Boom, done, can we stop this bias discussion please?

I'm already done discussing this with you, I have 20 something comments to prove it, I am talking to the other people on this forum.

 

[Deleted member]

We ought to be careful about the "Boss Characters = Bowser,DDD,Ganondorf" argument. Brawl had plenty of "Boss Characters" that weren't playable. What we should focus on is whether or not Sakurai himself is switching between terms. Does he refer to Yellow Devil as a "Boss" and not a "Boss Character"? Has he ever used the latter term for other Bosses during the Brawl era?

In the original Japanese, he uses the term "boss character system gimmick" ボスキャラ系の仕掛け on the Pyrosphere part.
Yellow Devil however, is strictly referred to by name.


EDIT: It's safe to say that the "Boss Characters = Bowser, DDD, Ganondorf" argument is invalid since he's specifically talking about actual bosses.

 

[SvartWolf]

The reason the sword users are not exaggerated is because they use sword and not their fist, no sword user has their sword puffed up when attacking.

exactly, because a sword gives them enough range in their gameplay and doesnt need to be tweaked

 

[The King of Skulls]

I don't think it's so much the fact that Ridley is "Too Big" that is the problem here.

What I believe is the issue at heart here, is that the fact that Ridley MIGHT be a boss on Pyrosphere is heavily contested...when it flat out makes sense.

That's not to say that Ridley's popularity doesn't matter, because he's got quite a bit of support. But take the popularity off to the side for a second, and think about what Ridley is. Yes, he's the most iconic antagonist from Metroid. Yes, he's got the ideal unique properties we'd like to see in a newcomer. But at his core, what is he?

He is an iconic, larger than most Boss character. Which makes him ideal for the Boss fights like Yellow Devil showcased in the Direct. I'm not posting this to say that he IS without a doubt a boss, but moreso to point out that it DOES make sense in that train of thought. Ridley is the most iconic villain of Metroid, and is a larger boss character. Just as he appeared as a boss in SSE in Brawl, he makes sense to use as a boss in Smash Wii U, ESPECIALLY because this is a brand new thing Sakurai will likely want to push. Ridley is a front running Boss character. This isn't to say he can't be playable, but to say that he makes complete sense to be a Boss Fight character in this game, like it or not.

Before you say, "What about Bowser?" Or "Bowser confirmed for stage boss". I can explain that.

You see, Bowser...is mother****ing Bowser. Ridley has NOTHING on Bowser.

Fair points, but why Ridley? I mean, Metroid has had so many awesome bosses, and Pyrosphere itself has 3 aside from Ridley.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I'm already done discussing this with you, I have 20 something comments to prove it, I am talking to the other people on this forum.

Yes, it was as wonderful as feeling your braincells committing suicide one by one...pleasant.

 

[Snagrio]

I just laugh at the argument that says Ridley's design is too difficult to transition to a playable format (the stupid "size issue" completely aside).

Perhaps it's pointless to bring up then that the group making this game have been doing this kind of stuff for years, if not decades. In other words, I'm certain Sakurai and co. could handle making just about anyone they want (within legal reason) playable. It's just a matter of them wanting to do it.

 

[False Sense]

I'm already done discussing this with you, I have 20 something comments to prove it, I am talking to the other people on this forum.

On that note, could you explain why Ridley is an exception to the apparent "sizes mean absolutely nothing" rule that all previous Smash games have followed?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

When has Ridley's large size ever had much of an emphasis put on it? He's known for being Samus' nemesis (among a few other things) not a for being a huge, hulking monster. That title would go to Kraid.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Fair points, but why Ridley? I mean, Metroid has had so many awesome bosses, and Pyrosphere itself has 3 aside from Ridley.

It comes down to the fact that Ridley is...well, Ridley. He's the most iconic Metroid Villain, and arguably the most important. Sure, the stage in question has other bosses, but why pick those no-names over the tried and true Ridley?

 

[CometX-ing]

exactly, because a sword gives them enough range in their gameplay and doesnt need to be tweaked

No what I mean is that sword don't need that extra effect when being used because they are not know for there force more so their slicing, adding a bulge effect on a sword would not make much sense, while punching is know for the force you put behind it, at that larger objects plus the force put behind it would make it look more powerful. So they stretch and bulged their fist and feet to make it look like their is a lot of power in the punch or kick.

 

[OblivionWolf]

It comes down to the fact that Ridley is...well, Ridley. He's the most iconic Metroid Villain, and arguably the most important. Sure, the stage in question has other bosses, but why pick those no-names over the tried and true Ridley?

.......To make him playable....

 

[Hotfeet444]

It comes down to the fact that Ridley is...well, Ridley. He's the most iconic Metroid Villain, and arguably the most important. Sure, the stage in question has other bosses, but why pick those no-names over the tried and true Ridley?

That's kind of like saying "Why have just ANY Legendary pokemon come out of the Master Ball and not the most famous one of all?" ...I swear to Arceus people, DO NOT GET THAT MINDSET.

That and I would've preferred Kraid as a boss...would've made no sense, but what the hell does in the Smash Bros world?