Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Dalek_Kolt]

-It's pointless to determine how "tiny" Ridley is just by his shadow.
-Define "choppy".
-The same problem with Ridley's wings applied to Meta Ridley in Brawl.

Meta Ridley was at a decent size to work with as a character (though still being bigger than Bowser) outside the wings (and possibly the tail).

Well, Rids seems to jump from one series of animations to another based on the shadow, implying that he's either unfinished (unlikely) or that player inputs are making him jerk around in such a manner.

Judging by that pic, I highly doubt Meta Ridley, even a wingless one, would have been viable, seeing as he's, what, 4x DK's size? Also, I highly doubt wingspan would play into any significant hitbox issues on a 2D battleground.

 

[SchAlternate]

Finito.

Alternatively, replace "Super Missiles" with "Too Big arguments"

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

ok part 2 of my cannonballs is most likely repaired thank you Dalek_Kolt for helping me with that

 

[OblivionWolf]

ok part 2 of my cannonballs is most likely repaired thank you Dalek_Kolt for helping me with that

You really gotta post it in the character discussion forum.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Finito.

View attachment 14033

Alternatively, replace "Super Missiles" with "Too Big arguments"

It's so beautiful. I would laugh even harder if he shot bolts from his fingertips afterwards.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

You really gotta post it in the character discussion forum.

Done part 2 posted

 

[OblivionWolf]

Done part 2 posted

What a shame looks like nobody is gonna read it.....

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Just let it go people. Ridley is DEAD for Smash 4.

He's in Crusade, you can play him there.

Ironically, I finally first saw Frozen along with its Let it Go song shortly after the Smash direct.

What's this crusade you speak of?!

That gets me thinking, would Ridley be easier or harder to design if his arms and wings were connected?

Probably easier. Would look sillier on him though IMO.

What a shame looks like nobody is gonna read it.....

If you're talking about the character discussion thread, gee, I wonder why?

 

[OblivionWolf]

Ironically, I finally first saw Frozen along with its Let it Go song shortly after the Smash direct.

What's this crusade you speak of?!


Probably easier. Would look sillier on him though IMO.


If you're talking about the character discussion thread, gee, I wonder why?

Yeah I'm new to posting there.....It reminded me of this part in Guardian of the Galaxy trailer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGkXlZUlLJc

Well not all of them. There are some cool people there.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

I'm actually not done, excuse me saying I'm not done.

I don't understand why people think I'm stating my opinions as facts, when really I'm stating my opinions as opinions. I guess it's my wording...

Anyways, all in all, I still don't think he could work. Yes, he could be rescaled. Yes, his wings and tails and parts could be tucked in as well. But I wouldn't like the idea of his idle animation having all of his parts tucked in. Technically, I think he could work. But judging from how all his parts would likely have to be rescaled, I think he wouldn't look too good. Take into the account that in ALL the games he's been in he's been ginormous, except for the original, but also note that he was bigger in the remake (Zero Mission).

Bowser is constantly changing size. He's big in Mario 64, and huge in Sunshine, and then shrunk a little bit for Galaxy.

Olimar and Kirby are .75 and 8 inches, respectively. However Kirby does not look that small in-game, however, thanks to the camera. They don't look funny or strange at all when I play Smash. I don't ever think, Oh, Olimar is actually .75 inches tall, when I play Brawl.

What I'm trying to say is, is that Ridley is too big, and has always been too big. Wouldn't it be strange seeing Samus nearly the same height as Ridley? Yes, that happened in the original but was corrected in the remake. It isn't strange seeing Bowser or Olimar or Kirby in their Smash Bros. sizes. I mean, it could look weird having Olimar throwing pellets, because in the original they are large compared to Olimar. Ridley has always been portrayed as big. He is big in comparison to Samus, big as shown by the in-game camera, and is just objectively big. Bowser has varied in size, objectively. Kirby is objectively small, but the camera makes him look otherwise. Olimar is small and is at times portrayed by the camera to be small as well, but his re-scaling in Smash makes sense. Smash characters are trophies, and trophies aren't always true to scale. Say that about Ridley all you want but I can't imagine him looking good at all when scaled down to size as a playable character, even when looking at the photos in the first post of this thread.

By the way, these are opinions couples with facts, in case the moderators or other users can't tell. Because apparently, stating an opinion without stating that it's an opinion means that I believe that my opinions to be fact, or the end-all of the argument.

 

[Anomilus]

Lord Ridley requests all our fellow space pirates join him in a moment of silence!

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/culture/Alien_creator_H.R._Giger_is_dead.html?cid=38569780

 

[SchAlternate]

What I'm trying to say is, is that Ridley is too big, and has always been too big. Wouldn't it be strange seeing Samus nearly the same height as Ridley?

Okay.

No.

Stop right there.

I think I see the problem here.

The problem here, as stated right there, from what I can gather, is that you assume we want a microscopically sized Ridley. That's not true on the slightest. Most of prefer Ridley to slightly smaller than his canonical size, but still tower over the likes of Bowser. Take a look for yourself.

 

[Morbi]

I'm actually not done, excuse me saying I'm not done.

I don't understand why people think I'm stating my opinions as facts, when really I'm stating my opinions as opinions. I guess it's my wording...

Anyways, all in all, I still don't think he could work. Yes, he could be rescaled. Yes, his wings and tails and parts could be tucked in as well. But I wouldn't like the idea of his idle animation having all of his parts tucked in. Technically, I think he could work. But judging from how all his parts would likely have to be rescaled, I think he wouldn't look too good. Take into the account that in ALL the games he's been in he's been ginormous, except for the original, but also note that he was bigger in the remake (Zero Mission).

Bowser is constantly changing size. He's big in Mario 64, and huge in Sunshine, and then shrunk a little bit for Galaxy.

Olimar and Kirby are .75 and 8 inches, respectively. However Kirby does not look that small in-game, however, thanks to the camera. They don't look funny or strange at all when I play Smash. I don't ever think, Oh, Olimar is actually .75 inches tall, when I play Brawl.

What I'm trying to say is, is that Ridley is too big, and has always been too big. Wouldn't it be strange seeing Samus nearly the same height as Ridley? Yes, that happened in the original but was corrected in the remake. It isn't strange seeing Bowser or Olimar or Kirby in their Smash Bros. sizes. I mean, it could look weird having Olimar throwing pellets, because in the original they are large compared to Olimar. Ridley has always been portrayed as big. He is big in comparison to Samus, big as shown by the in-game camera, and is just objectively big. Bowser has varied in size, objectively. Kirby is objectively small, but the camera makes him look otherwise. Olimar is small and is at times portrayed by the camera to be small as well, but his re-scaling in Smash makes sense. Smash characters are trophies, and trophies aren't always true to scale. Say that about Ridley all you want but I can't imagine him looking good at all when scaled down to size as a playable character.

By the way, these are opinions couples with facts, in case the moderators or other users can't tell. Because apparently, stating an opinion without stating that it's an opinion means that I believe that my opinions are facts, or the end-all of the argument.

This is a problem I have also had on Smashboards; statements should be implied to be opinions unless specifically asserted otherwise.

 

[False Sense]

I'm actually not done, excuse me saying I'm not done.

I don't understand why people think I'm stating my opinions as facts, when really I'm stating my opinions as opinions. I guess it's my wording...

Anyways, all in all, I still don't think he could work. Yes, he could be rescaled. Yes, his wings and tails and parts could be tucked in as well. But I wouldn't like the idea of his idle animation having all of his parts tucked in. Technically, I think he could work. But judging from how all his parts would likely have to be rescaled, I think he wouldn't look too good. Take into the account that in ALL the games he's been in he's been ginormous, except for the original, but also note that he was bigger in the remake (Zero Mission).

Bowser is constantly changing size. He's big in Mario 64, and huge in Sunshine, and then shrunk a little bit for Galaxy.

Olimar and Kirby are .75 and 8 inches, respectively. However Kirby does not look that small in-game, however, thanks to the camera. They don't look funny or strange at all when I play Smash. I don't ever think, Oh, Olimar is actually .75 inches tall, when I play Brawl.

What I'm trying to say is, is that Ridley is too big, and has always been too big. Wouldn't it be strange seeing Samus nearly the same height as Ridley? Yes, that happened in the original but was corrected in the remake. It isn't strange seeing Bowser or Olimar or Kirby in their Smash Bros. sizes. I mean, it could look weird having Olimar throwing pellets, because in the original they are large compared to Olimar. Ridley has always been portrayed as big. He is big in comparison to Samus, big as shown by the in-game camera, and is just objectively big. Bowser has varied in size, objectively. Kirby is objectively small, but the camera makes him look otherwise. Olimar is small and is at times portrayed by the camera to be small as well, but his re-scaling in Smash makes sense. Smash characters are trophies, and trophies aren't always true to scale. Say that about Ridley all you want but I can't imagine him looking good at all when scaled down to size as a playable character, even when looking at the photos in the first post of this thread.

By the way, these are opinions couples with facts, in case the moderators or other users can't tell. Because apparently, stating an opinion without stating that it's an opinion means that I believe that my opinions to be fact, or the end-all of the argument.

In all those Mario games you listed, Bowser is significantly bigger than Mario. Bigger than Ridley is compared to Samus, generally.

Also, in regards to the whole "strange looking sizes" argument... I think some Pokemon fans (like myself) are a little bothered by the fact that Pikachu, which is typically portrayed as a small mouse, is suddenly about the size of Mario, and about half the size of Charizard. Pikachu is huge compared to how he usually looks.

 

[BKupa666]

Just taking this opportunity to point out that the burden of proof is always stupidly on the Ridley fans who say he could work as a character, rather than on the TooBigots who claim he definitely 100% cannot work as a character, ever ever ever.

 

[flamesaber111]

Just taking this opportunity to point out that the burden of proof is always stupidly on the Ridley fans who say he could work as a character, rather than on the TooBigots who claim he definitely 100% cannot work as a character, ever ever ever.

That's most likely because the TooBigots don't really have any proof as to why he couldn't work. Also, hey folks! First post FTW!

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Okay.
The problem here, as stated right there, from what I can gather, is that you assume we want a microscopically sized Ridley. That's not true on the slightest. Most of prefer Ridley to slightly smaller than his canonical size, but still tower over the likes of Bowser. Take a look for yourself.

Yeah, I've seen that before. I understand why they'd want that. But look at those arms, legs, and wings...they'd have to do some re-scaling or alter the placement of those things. Also that's not normal Ridley, but he could work at that size.

Eh...still don't entirely see it working. But if there's a way, I'd want to see it. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Morbi]

Just taking this opportunity to point out that the burden of proof is always stupidly on the Ridley fans who say he could work as a character, rather than on the TooBigots who claim he definitely 100% cannot work as a character, ever ever ever.

No, it isn't. The burden of proof is attributed to the party asserting their claim. Someone asserting that he would not "ever ever ever" work as a character has the burden of proof. Not the party that is like, "why wouldn't he?"

 

[BKupa666]

No, it isn't. The burden of proof is attributed to the party asserting their claim. Someone asserting that he would not "ever ever ever" work as a character has the burden of proof. Not the party that is like, "why wouldn't he?"

 

[OblivionWolf]

That's most likely because the TooBigots don't really have any proof as to why he couldn't work. Also, hey folks! First post FTW!

I'm loving all these first posters that start here! The Ridley love knows no bounds! Welcome.

 

[Morbi]

Oh. It should be common knowledge that I have no sense of humor. I couldn't see the joke if it was as big as Ridley. See I am not even that funny. It is a sad, sad fate.

 

[shrooby]

Just taking this opportunity to point out that the burden of proof is always stupidly on the Ridley fans who say he could work as a character, rather than on the TooBigots who claim he definitely 100% cannot work as a character, ever ever ever.

Burden of proof is funny. I feel as though too many people don't know how it works.

One of my favorite (purposefully idiotic) examples goes something like this...
"There is a giant teacup in between Mars and Jupiter!"
And to the people who say there isn't, they say...
"Well, show me that it isn't there then!"

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

But what about the people asserting that he COULD work as a character? Wouldn't they have the burden of proof?

Depends.

In this case, no.

Why?

For the record, I want Ridley in Smash and think he could work as a character.

----

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Also that's not normal Ridley,

That's Ridley from Other M.

How is he not normal?

Whatever role he's given, he'll look like that.

But what about the people asserting that he COULD work as a character? Wouldn't they have the burden of proof?

----

Depends.

In this case, no.

 

[Snagrio]

Looks like we're going through another argument cycle. Bah, it's more fun around here when we throw Ridley in a dress.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

He's a clone of Ridley, not an updated character model. There this, Meta Ridley, Omega Ridley, and Neo Ridley, and then the little birdie and Mystery Creature stages of his life cycle.

And then there's normal Ridley here

He may vary in color but this is indeed his standard body.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I'm actually not done, excuse me saying I'm not done.

I don't understand why people think I'm stating my opinions as facts, when really I'm stating my opinions as opinions. I guess it's my wording...

Anyways, all in all, I still don't think he could work. Yes, he could be rescaled. Yes, his wings and tails and parts could be tucked in as well. But I wouldn't like the idea of his idle animation having all of his parts tucked in. Technically, I think he could work. But judging from how all his parts would likely have to be rescaled, I think he wouldn't look too good. Take into the account that in ALL the games he's been in he's been ginormous, except for the original, but also note that he was bigger in the remake (Zero Mission).

Bowser is constantly changing size. He's big in Mario 64, and huge in Sunshine, and then shrunk a little bit for Galaxy.

Olimar and Kirby are .75 and 8 inches, respectively. However Kirby does not look that small in-game, however, thanks to the camera. They don't look funny or strange at all when I play Smash. I don't ever think, Oh, Olimar is actually .75 inches tall, when I play Brawl.

What I'm trying to say is, is that Ridley is too big, and has always been too big. Wouldn't it be strange seeing Samus nearly the same height as Ridley? Yes, that happened in the original but was corrected in the remake. It isn't strange seeing Bowser or Olimar or Kirby in their Smash Bros. sizes. I mean, it could look weird having Olimar throwing pellets, because in the original they are large compared to Olimar. Ridley has always been portrayed as big. He is big in comparison to Samus, big as shown by the in-game camera, and is just objectively big. Bowser has varied in size, objectively. Kirby is objectively small, but the camera makes him look otherwise. Olimar is small and is at times portrayed by the camera to be small as well, but his re-scaling in Smash makes sense. Smash characters are trophies, and trophies aren't always true to scale. Say that about Ridley all you want but I can't imagine him looking good at all when scaled down to size as a playable character, even when looking at the photos in the first post of this thread.

By the way, these are opinions couples with facts, in case the moderators or other users can't tell. Because apparently, stating an opinion without stating that it's an opinion means that I believe that my opinions to be fact, or the end-all of the argument.

Please just stop. Yes, it's your opinion that Ridley looks odd smaller and other characters like Pikachu or Olimar look just fine upscaled. But don't project that on everyone else, it doesn't work as an argument because anyone can just refute it by saying, no they actually do look strange upscaled. We could go back and forth with that all day long. Just because we are used to seeing big Pikachu and massive Olimar in Smash Bros doesn't mean it's any less peculiar to the source material. Ultimately it doesn't matter one bit but I remember when Olimar was first revealed I thought it was the strangest thing in the world that he was standing as tall as human.

Ridley could be the biggest character with wings that are the exact same size as Charizards that function exactly the same with hit boxes and all. It would fit as well because in the 2D games his wings are absolutely puny. He could be given long Donkey Kong arms with a hunched posture like old Bowser and a tail a little longer than Charizards that can be extended when he actually attacks. He's got an odd neck but what does that really mean? It makes a V shape and is usually coiled up, doesn't mean he has to stick it out fully extended 24/7.

Brawl introduced so many atypical bodies like Ivysaur, Charizard and ROB, I don't even see how Sakurai thought it would have been a major hurdle back in those days.

 

[False Sense]

Burden of proof is funny. I feel as though too many people don't know how it works.

One of my favorite (purposefully idiotic) examples goes something like this...
"There is a giant teacup in between Mars and Jupiter!"
And to the people who say there isn't, they say...
"Well, show me that it isn't there then!"

How about this one? (And yes, I've heard this one before)

Person 1: "Gravity, as a force, even if it isn't constant in strength depending on the location, exists everywhere."

Person 2: "What about in heaven?"

Person 1: "...Can you prove that it doesn't?"

Person 2: "Can you prove that it does?"

 

[D-idara]

I just have one thing to say to anyone who says OMG RIDLEY IS TOO BIG HE LOOKS AS SMALL AS SAMUS OMG OMG!

Still looks pretty threatening and In-Character to me...

 

[Morbi]

But what about the people asserting that he COULD work as a character? Wouldn't they have the burden of proof?

----

It is common knowledge that most Nintendo characters are plausible, it is even more overt with someone prominent such as Ridley. So you aren't attempting to prove anything in this case, someone else is trying to prove that he is an exception to the rule.

I mean, if there was a group that objectively believed that Ridley wouldn't work and someone asserted that he would work, say YouTube, then yes, the burden of proof is on the advocate of Ridely. However, here, we are logical and rational. There is nothing feasible that prevents Ridley from being playable because we, as a community, have disregarded the "too big" argument as nonsense. So the burden is on the opposing party. The burden of proof is always the dependent variable.

 

[Koopaul]

Like I mentioned before, we could have Ridley as semi-playable. How would you react to that?

 

[Morbi]

Like I mentioned before, we could have Ridley as semi-playable. How would you react to that?

Define semi-playable, that notion doesn't seem possible. How could something be half-playable?

 

[D-idara]

Like I mentioned before, we could have Ridley as semi-playable. How would you react to that?

NO. PLAYABLE.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Yeah, have a fifth player (or less if less people are playing) control him on the Gamepad in the Pyrosphere stage. That'd be sick!

I was about to say that maybe a Giants mode could work. Just have giant characters facing off against each other. Not like in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, where they'd mix normal and Giant characters into the same battle. A Giant mode could open up some possibilities. But I definitely don't see it happening...haha.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

I think the important thing we're all forgetting isn't whether we think Ridley can work, but if Sakurai thinks he can work. It isn't looking too good for us on that front. What we saw of Pyrosphere isn't encouraging either. It's a shame, he'd make a great addition.

 

[OblivionWolf]

He's a clone of Ridley, not an updated character model. There this, Meta Ridley, Omega Ridley, and Neo Ridley, and then the little birdie and Mystery Creature stages of his life cycle.

And then there's normal Ridley here

He may vary in color but this is indeed his standard body.

Some might call this "normal" Zelda.

But no we got Twilight Princess Zelda again. Smash 4 is leaning more to Other M so we won't be getting normal Ridley imo.

This will be our Smash 4 Ridley just altered abit I bet. So yeah Ridley Kong for Smash 4.

 

[Koopaul]

Define semi-playable, that notion doesn't seem possible. How could something be half-playable?

Your character can control him on the Pyroshpere but that's it. I noticed in the Direct it almost seems like Pikachu jumps into Ridley's clutches. As soon as that happens, Ridley stops moving.

It made me think that you can summon Ridley on to the stage and then jump into him to control him.
Almost like an Animal Buddy.

I don't want this. I want a fully playable Ridley. However, you never know what Sakurai might do.

 

[Morbi]

I think the important thing we're all forgetting isn't whether we think Ridley can work, but if Sakurai thinks he can work. It isn't looking too good for us on that front. What we saw of Pyrosphere isn't encouraging either. It's a shame, he'd make a great addition.

I feel as though that interview is fairly damning, but at the same time, it has been 6 years. His perspective could have easily changed; however, if it didn't, obviously he isn't going to be playable.

 

[AndreaAC]

Looks like we're going through another argument cycle. Bah, it's more fun around here when we throw Ridley in a dress.

"No....not the dress again! PLEASE!"

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Please just stop. Yes, it's your opinion that Ridley looks odd smaller and other characters like Pikachu or Olimar look just fine upscaled. But don't project that on everyone else, it doesn't work as an argument because anyone can just refute it by saying, no they actually do look strange upscaled. We could go back and forth with that all day long. Just because we are used to seeing big Pikachu and massive Olimar in Smash Bros doesn't mean it's any less peculiar to the source material. Ultimately it doesn't matter one bit but I remember when Olimar was first revealed I thought it was the strangest thing in the world that he was standing as tall as human.

Ridley could be the biggest character with wings that are the exact same size as Charizards that function exactly the same with hit boxes and all. It would fit as well because in the 2D games his wings are absolutely puny. He could be given long Donkey Kong arms with a hunched posture like old Bowser and a tail a little longer than Charizards that can be extended when he actually attacks. He's got an odd neck but what does that really mean? It makes a V shape and is usually coiled up, doesn't mean he has to stick it out fully extended 24/7.

Brawl introduced so many atypical bodies like Ivysaur, Charizard and ROB, I don't even see how Sakurai thought it would have been a major hurdle back in those days.

At this point, my unspoken rules of potential characters to amend to Sakurai's list typically are along these lines:

Must have limbs.
Must be mobile.
Must not have huge size as a defining character trait.
Must be corporeal, or at least small and solid enough to be attacked.

So my personal list is why I believe Mother Brain, Kraid, Giygas, and Grima have never even been considered for Smash as playable characters. And judging by the Plasm Wraith thread, I may need to take "Must have limbs" off if Sakurai does include it, or Slime, or Gooey, or whatever blob monster he thinks would best be a fighter.