Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Empyrean]

You see, the issue isn't with Smash Bowser, he's just fine. Canon Bowser, on the other hand, is too big.

 

[Trigger123]

Fixed insert badum tsss here.

Wait what did i do wrong? I spelled smash wrong i know that now was there something else?

To be perfectly honest, there is no way to know whether or not a character would be overpowered in Smash just based off their game appearances. We can't know exactly what kind of characteristics they'll give Ridley, even based on the source. If a characters overpowered nature translated into Smash, we'd probably see characters like Ganondorf and Mewtwo utterly dominating. Clearly though, that was not the case.

In the case of Ridley, balancing him could be a relatively simple task. My imagination of the character would have him be the largest character in the roster, just slightly bigger than Bowser, and would also be pretty powerful, but his wings and fairly thin body mass would make him lighter than one would expect of a character his size. This makes him an easy target to hit and rack up damage on, and as a result could be sent flying faster than expected. He would also be pretty slow on the ground, but very fast in the air, which is where Ridley would perform his best. This kind of style would allow Ridley to still have his trademark abilities of strength and speed while still balancing it out in ways that could work in Smash. But that's just how I would do it. Bottom line, a character's "overpoweredness" has no correlation on the characters chances of getting in, nor does it often translate into the Smash environment.

And I wasn't saying that would make his chance of getting in less of a chance just saying he would be very powerful so should be tough to unlock.

 

[Mega Dunsparce]

Wait what did i do wrong? I spelled smash wrong i know that now was there something else?

And I wasn't saying that would make his chance of getting in less of a chance just saying he would be very powerful so should be tough to unlock.

I put smush instead of smash do you get it now?

RUN FOR YOUR LIKES IT'S MORBID!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Again, as others have said, I think balancing Ridley doesn't have to do with his size, moreso than his gameplay mechanics.

Basically, while he would be the biggest character in the game, his aerial combat would far exceed his abilities on the ground, therefore, if you were a fast character, you could take full advantage of his size by keeping him on the ground while knocking the snot out of him.

In the air, he would be the best hands down. Hittable yes, but if you don't land the first strike, he's a nasty mother to deal with.

His weight is another story. The Other M incarnation is bulkier, and therefore gives off the "fat mofo" vibe. With that in mind, I think it's fair to say he would be heavy and slow, but hard to knock out. I don't think we've had a good heavy aerial character besides Dedede before.

 

[Graydient]

A list of all the times Bowser was big as **** (magic, star power, and spin offs not included)
It's funny how Bowser manages to be in Smash Bros. despite his large size.

I think you should include spin-offs. Bowser has always been inconsistent, like Mario Kart, so people have already accepted the idea of scaling Bowser.
As a Metroid fan, I'm inclined to believe Ridley has been consistently large, barring Metroid 1. The smallest he's ever been that people constantly bring up is his 5 second appearance in the Melee opening, which for some reason is somehow enough to undo the multitude of games that presented him as large (and even then, he still looks big, at least to me).

Then of course, there's this:

I would support Ridley if he joined other really large characters like King K Rool (like in TvC how there's PTX-40A and Gold Lightan), but going by Sakura's PotD:

Spoiler

I'm not so confident in super-large characters being a thing.

 

[False Sense]

I think you should include spin-offs. Bowser has always been inconsistent, like Mario Kart, so people have already accepted the idea of scaling Bowser.
As a Metroid fan, I'm inclined to believe Ridley has been consistently large, barring Metroid 1. The smallest he's ever been that people constantly bring up is his 5 second appearance in the Melee opening, which for some reason is somehow enough to undo the multitude of games that presented him as large (and even then, he still looks big, at least to me).

Then of course, there's this:

I would support Ridley if he joined other really large characters like King K Rool (like in TvC how there's PTX-40A and Gold Lightan), but going by Sakura's PotD:

Spoiler

I'm not so confident in super-large characters being a thing.

See, here's the issue with spin-offs: they feature Bowser as a playable character. In Mario Kart, for instance, you can't have Bowser be his normal size like he is in the main Mario games, otherwise he'd take up big sections of the road and prevent other characters from passing him. He has to be shrunk down for something like that. And Smash is also a spin off. He has to be shrunk down in order to be playable to make him work as a character. Basically, the spin offs cannot really be used to justify Bowser's size in Smash, as they are non-canon appearances, like Smash, where he would have to be shrunk down to work as a character. On the other hand though, they do justify the resizing of characters for spin offs. This is where Ridley comes in. The main difference here between Bowser and Ridley is that Bowser has appeared in several spin off games where he is much smaller due to his playable appearance. However, the Metroid series lacks spin offs (aside form Metroid Pinball), so there has never been an opportunity for Ridley to make a similar non-canon playable appearance. Bowser's spin off appearances show that it is possible for traditionally very large characters to be resized for the purpose of being made a playable character. By that logic, there should be no issue in resizing Ridley for him to make a playable appearance in Smash.

Well, that was wordy. I hope that's still in a comprehensible state...

 

[Knight Dude]

A list of all the times Bowser was big as **** (magic, star power, and spin offs not included)

Spoiler

It's funny how Bowser manages to be in Smash Bros. despite his large size.

So what you are saying is that the smaller Smash Bowser is a clone, and that we should clone a smaller Ridley to be playable? Hey, if it works it works.

Again, as others have said, I think balancing Ridley doesn't have to do with his size, moreso than his gameplay mechanics.

Basically, while he would be the biggest character in the game, his aerial combat would far exceed his abilities on the ground, therefore, if you were a fast character, you could take full advantage of his size by keeping him on the ground while knocking the snot out of him.

In the air, he would be the best hands down. Hittable yes, but if you don't land the first strike, he's a nasty mother to deal with.

His weight is another story. The Other M incarnation is bulkier, and therefore gives off the "fat mofo" vibe. With that in mind, I think it's fair to say he would be heavy and slow, but hard to knock out. I don't think we've had a good heavy aerial character besides Dedede before.

I'm inclined to agree. I figured that it was gameplay aspects that would make Ridley either too strong or too weak if it wasn't balanced properly. I didn't think of the Other M version though. It would make sense for him to be heavier than most characters since that version of Ridley is buff as hell. Either way, a heavy character that's good in the air but poor on the ground would be interesting to say the least.

 

[foolssigma]

I feel like this is the best place to say this, but can Ridley ever be mentioned without the whole size debate taking over? I support Ridley, though not as actively as most of you guys and I do not even want to respond to the "arguments." I can only imagine how it feels for you guys.

 

[False Sense]

I feel like this is the best place to say this, but can Ridley ever be mentioned without the whole size debate taking over? I support Ridley, though not as actively as most of you guys and I do not even want to respond to the "arguments." I can only imagine how it feels for you guys.

Sadly, that argument is kind of the main reason Ridley is such a talked about and controversial character. It's really the one thing that is (supposedly) keeping him from Smash; all the other necessary qualities are already there. So really, it's kind of hard to talk about Ridley without addressing the size argument.

 

[foolssigma]

I guess you are right. Sakurai after all did say something about the challenge of making Ridley work in smash, however it seems like just as much of a challenge to get various other characters to work as well.

 

[Knight Dude]

I feel like this is the best place to say this, but can Ridley ever be mentioned without the whole size debate taking over? I support Ridley, though not as actively as most of you guys and I do not even want to respond to the "arguments." I can only imagine how it feels for you guys.

We've talked about Ridley outside of the size argument many times. And honestly, I really am bored of that part of talking about Ridley. We do have a good bit of other things to talk about too. I think it's safe to say that neither side will ever agree with the other anyway. No matter if Ridley is in this Smash game or not. If he isn't Ridley fans aren't going to give up on him being playable one day. If he is playable, the people who don't like him will find something else to complain about. Which is expected.

 

[Empyrean]

If there had been a Metroid Kart long ago, the size issue wouldn't have been this prevalent. Then again, people would've found another stupid reason, like "Ridley is too scary" or something. Oh wait...

 

[False Sense]

If there had been a Metroid Kart long ago, the size issue wouldn't have been this prevalent. Then again, people would've found another stupid reason, like "Ridley is too scary" or something. Oh wait...

Absolutely. People are naturally forgiving towards Bowser because his multiple playable roles in a smaller state are familiar and frequently seen in many spin offs. Ridley has unfortunately never had this benefit, so people are only familiar with the concept of a large Ridley, and thus refuse to accept an alternative despite it being a complete non issue. I'm actually quite curious as to whether a similar stance would be taken with King K. Rool had he not made his few spin off appearances.

 

[AustarusIV]

Absolutely. People are naturally forgiving towards Bowser because his multiple playable roles in a smaller state are familiar and frequently seen in many spin offs. Ridley has unfortunately never had this benefit, so people are only familiar with the concept of a large Ridley, and thus refuse to accept an alternative despite it being a complete non issue. I'm actually quite curious as to whether a similar stance would be taken with King K. Rool had he not made his few spin off appearances.

People have already been calling K. Rool too big for a long time, they just haven't been as loud and obnoxious as the Ridley haters. During my time at GameFAQs, I've encountered people who were against his inclusion by citing his appearances in DKC and DK64, even in spite of the fact that he was made smaller in the Mario Baseball game for the Wii. So it wouldn't make much of a difference really.

But even in canon Ridley's size fluctuates. In Metroid Prime 3 Corruption he's borderline Kraid-sized as Meta Ridley, but when he reappears as Omega Ridley he's suddenly shrunken down to the point that he's only twice the size of Samus.

 

[BKupa666]

The selective-minded Too Bigots (or, in other words, all Too Bigots) "forget" size inconsistencies within individual games.

Exhibit A:

"You're SERIOUSLY gonna use freakin' five seconds of 101% game completion blooper reel footage...like that means...but I'LL GIVE YOU THAT."

 

[False Sense]

People have already been calling K. Rool too big for a long time, they just haven't been as loud and obnoxious as the Ridley haters. During my time at GameFAQs, I've encountered people who were against his inclusion by citing his appearances in DKC and DK64, even in spite of the fact that he was made smaller in the Mario Baseball game for the Wii. So it wouldn't make much of a difference really.

But even in canon Ridley's size fluctuates. In Metroid Prime 3 Corruption he's borderline Kraid-sized as Meta Ridley, but when he reappears as Omega Ridley he's suddenly shrunken down to the point that he's only twice the size of Samus.

Wow. Calling K. Rool too big after already being resized for another series spin off is rather narrow minded...

Really, the bottom line of all this is that neither K. Rool or Ridley are too big. Characters are fully capable of being resized, have been resized, and will continue to be resized for the sake of having some of the most beloved Nintendo icons be playable.

 

[GmanSir]

If there had been a Metroid Kart long ago, the size issue wouldn't have been this prevalent. Then again, people would've found another stupid reason, like "Ridley is too scary" or something. Oh wait...

Ridley would just fly by himself if there was a Metroid Kart

 

[foolssigma]

Ridley would just fly by himself if there was a Metroid Kart

That made me think of how Sonic drives a car in racing games for some reason...

 

[AustarusIV]

Ridley would just fly by himself if there was a Metroid Kart

All of a sudden you've reminded me of Meta Knight in Kirby Air Ride.

I couldn't find a better picture on Google, but I definitely believe Ridley would be playable like that.

 

[UltimateWario]

Sadly, that argument is kind of the main reason Ridley is such a talked about and controversial character. It's really the one thing that is (supposedly) keeping him from Smash; all the other necessary qualities are already there. So really, it's kind of hard to talk about Ridley without addressing the size argument.

Y'know, I never thought about this, but you're right.

The supposed "size argument" is the only thing keeping him from Smash; he meets literally every other requisite. He's popular, he's relevant, he's important, he's got plenty of potential (that's not even really a requisite -coughcoughfalcocough-)...

I honestly believe that Sakurai didn't include Ridley in earlier installments because he never thought of him as a possibility. He does know now that there are some who want him; whether or not he knows just how popular Ridley is is another thing, but he's been made aware that people do want him in Smash. Sakurai doesn't seem like the type of fellow to reject a character based on something so easily fixed as size. -againcoughcougholimarcough- Hell, Sakurai even said that he could work, and dare I say it, he seemed rather intrigued by the idea. Obviously it was far too late last time for him to include him as playable; he was already a boss, twice over, no less.

I suddenly feel much better about Ridley's chances.

 

[Anomilus]

Nintendo sure does take the scale of their characters seriously.

Let's take a look. ^_^

Spoiler

To This...

Bowser from Mario Strikers...

...and the sequel Mario Strikers Charged...

Petey Piranha... From This...

...To This...

...And This...

...AND THIS...

Gee, Petey Piranha could very well be playable material...

...Okay, to be fair, Brawl's roster apparently was decided as early as 2005. Sakurai probably wouldn't have guessed that Nintendo would re-use Petey Piranha to this extent. HOWEVER...

Nintendo reeeaaallly doesn't care when it comes to spin-offs, and they'll even take liberties on mainline games. We can't say how Sakurai feels or what he thinks exactly, but Smash history has shown us that Sakurai takes some liberties himself.

 

[MagnesD3]

Two bigots are ****ing ********.

 

[BKupa666]

Guys...guys...go check the f***ing Miiverse pic thread. Now.

EDIT: Mother Brain is an Assist Trophy. Sigh.

 

[Steelia]

Posted edit, Mother Brain's an Assist. ]:<

Still ::

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKljumhtZg

 

[ProjectAngel]

LADIES AND GENTS

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKljumhtZg

Eh, MB's confirmed to be an assist trophy. Not Pyrosphere's stage hazard.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Assist Trophy ahoy.

I doubted it was a stage hazard, but still it was rather surprising for a short time.

And I don't think this affects Ridley's chances much, if at all. Negatively or positively.

 

[Pacack]

Okay, it's just an assist. I was about to crown Sakurai king of the trolls.

 

[Deleted member]

Posted edit, Mother Brain's an Assist. ]:<

Still ::

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKljumhtZg

HOLY **** that's awesome and freaky at the same time!

Assist Trophy, or is she the "enemy from Samus' past" Sakurai was referring to?

EDIT: Assist. But still fricking sweet.

 

[Steelia]

Guys...guys...go check the f***ing Miiverse pic thread. Now.

EDIT: Mother Brain is an Assist Trophy. Sigh.

Well... the hype was real for about 2 minutes.

 

[Kamiko]

As usual, I have something to say regarding Ridley, and something big has to come steal the spotlight.

Le sigh...

 

[papagenos]

Mother Brain makes for a cool assist and at least we didn't get Ridley as an assist here!

Sakurai is trolling everyone I'm fairly confident ridley, palutena, little mac, and mii are in the game and he's shown their stages as teasers... also probly pac-man because of the little-mac mii pac-man leak and the stages making them even more likely.

 

[Knight Dude]

Pyrosphere's stage hazard is the lava. But that Mother Brain assist is pretty cool. It even has the Cheerios of Destruction in it's attacks.

 

[lordvaati]

Just wanted to get this out there: how do we know Pyrosphere will even have hazards?

 

[Kamiko]

Just wanted to get this out there: how do we know Pyrosphere will even have hazards?

It probably won't.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well it looks like the enemy from Samus' past appeared. And on the Pryosphere no less.

Sakurai, you crafty ************.

 

[AustarusIV]

WHAT THE EFF?!?!

Looks like Sakurai is trading Ridley's original position in Brawl to the original Big Bad. Does anybody remember that Ridley was originally supposed to be an AT instead of a boss?

 

[Soupenomics]

Translating the Japanese text from the PotD brings up "One piece today. seven colors eldritch blast! supermassive assist figure, mother Blaine appeared ring bullets! eyes beaker containing! gives rise!"
mother Blaine
Blaine
Blaine created Mewtwo
Mewtwo confirmed

 

[Knight Dude]

WHAT THE EFF?!?!

Looks like Sakurai is trading Ridley's original position in Brawl to the original Big Bad. Does anybody remember that Ridley was originally supposed to be an AT instead of a boss?

I remember hearing about that before. I thought that was interesting. But he did get not one, but two completely different boss fights in Brawl, so that's something. Here's to Ridley hopefully being playable now.

 

[AustarusIV]

So apparently Mother Brain being an AT confirms that Ridley isn't playable?

What is this I don't even

 

[Knight Dude]

So apparently Mother Brain being an AT confirms that Ridley isn't playable?

What is this I don't even

Eh, that's dumb. Sure, both are from the same series, but one being an assist character doesn't affect the other in any major way honestly.