Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Phaazoid]

Not if you can refrain from attempting to sell him to the Chinese like the last batch of kids under your watch. That's enough Futurama references for now. Actually no, I have one more reference. If Ridley ever talks, he should talk like Pazuzu.

I can't help if I live next to a Chinese restaurant

would you believe me if I told you that I hadn't even consciously been talking futurama but it's been so long that it just naturally works its way into my sarcasm/vocab?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't believe in retcons. Retcons are bull. I don't want to live in a world where the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids.

So yeah, this here:

is most certainly still is an argument.

Robotnick is not Eggman!!!

 

[Welshy91]

I can't help if I live next to a Chinese restaurant

would you believe me if I told you that I hadn't even consciously been talking futurama but it's been so long that it just naturally works its way into my sarcasm/vocab?

I can believe that. My nickname for years has been Welshy, people I personally know and have been acquainted with for years have no idea what my actual name is so it's essentially a second name I recognize as equally as my actual one. Apparently things Futurama related have a way of sticking to you on a subconscious level.

Sorry folks, can't think of a way to put a Ridley twist on that one.... except for maybe I wish Ridley was my pseudonym instead, that'd be pretty sweet.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ridley would, by canon, have to walk on all-fours, so this isn't really something you can use. People seem to forget that Ridley cannot walk properly on his hind legs; hell, forcing him onto his hind legs is key to beating him in the first and third Prime games.

We should be treating him less like a giant Charizard and more like a giant Ivysaur with wings and longer limbs.

Ridley can walk on two legs, as seen in the cinematic right before the Omega Ridley battle, it seems that he goes on all four to gain better speed though since he's so clunky when walking on two legs. I think it could work by having him stand on two legs when in his idle pose and just walking slowly, but he'd probably need to go on all fours when he dashes, unless they pull a Meta Knight.

 

[Welshy91]

Ridley can walk on two legs, as seen in the cinematic right before the Omega Ridley battle, it seems that he goes on all four to gain better speed though since he's so clunky when walking on two legs. I think it could work by having him stand on two legs when in his idle pose and just walking slowly, but he'd probably need to go on all fours when he dashes, unless they pull a Meta Knight.

I really hope they do. In more ways than one.

 

[Anomilus]

Finished putting together a different composition of my proposed Ridley Victory Theme. :O

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/1m5lqbswqrr0b7l/Ridley_Win_V2.mp3

The initial volume isn't as high as before either, so I shouldn't have to warn to bring the volume down a bit.

 

[UltimateWario]

I really hope they do. In more ways than one.

I'd rather not people ***** about how broken Ridley is.

Seriously, I want to see him used to the best of his ability in tournaments instead of just being banned from everything. Also, Meta Knight's not fun to play as because it doesn't take much effort to overpower your foe with his insane speed and broken priority.

And ew, gliding runs are gross.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ridley's size was retconned for Zero Mission, and there were indeed technical limitations.

I agree that the retcon should be considered, but the NES really was capable of making large bosses. It wasn't because of technical limitations. Probably just a change in vision or a change for the sake of gameplay.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Contra's engine was a lot more complicated than Metroid's engine though, both graphically and gameplay-wise.

It's fairly obvious that the original Metroid did have quite a few limitations, I think it says quite a bit that the only big boss in the whole game is 100% immobile.

 

[Anomilus]

Ridley being broken would make him legendary and even more infamous! :D

Either way though, wanting playable Ridley got me thinking about how some people believe others should just be happy a character they like is repped in any form. And I realize they really don't get it as they're not looking at the whole picture.

Take this week's unpleasantness: Ashley becoming an assist trophy. Many people openly frustrated at the reveal. Then you get those "Hey, at least she's in at all!" or "If I were you I'd be happy Sakurai even bothered..." and all that crap.

The reality: How will a favored character that's an Assist Trophy / Boss / Stage Hazard be treated?

- Occasional appearances during battles
- Gets to act mostly like they do in their respective games
- Minor or moderate interactions with other players and other characters
- Capable of creating some good or decent memorable moments over the course of the game's prime.
- ...And a trophy and stickers.

...And how will a favored character that's a part of the primary roster be treated?

- Appearances during battles fully dependent on players and overall popularity
- Players get to interpret their behavior using a plethora of source-inspired actions
- Maximum interactions with other players and characters
- Maximum interactions with lesser elements
- Full appearance and application within all single-player modes
- A myriad of data and information to interpret and research and archive
- Possibly years of exposure guaranteed to create attachments and generate fans
- Potential exposure to large crowds via competitive tournaments
- ... And several trophies and stickers

There's just no comparison. Some people are willing to just settle to see their favorite character simply show up and play their role, and some people look to the stars hoping to see their favorite character handled in the most prestigious manner possible. And some want their character like a child wants that awesome new toy for Christmas.

 

[Phaazoid]

- ... And several trophies

you had me at several trophies

 

[IsmaR]

Said it before, and I'll say it again. I would've preferred no Ridley period than the crappy Dyna-blade rip-off that was easy even on the hard difficulties.

 

[BKupa666]

Said it before, and I'll say it again. I would've preferred no Ridley period than the crappy Dyna-blade rip-off that was easy even on the hard difficulties.

But having him be a massive purple screeching Sandbag is the only way to convey his character, don'tcha know??

 

[AustarusIV]

Ridley being broken would make him legendary and even more infamous! :D

Either way though, wanting playable Ridley got me thinking about how some people believe others should just be happy a character they like is repped in any form. And I realize they really don't get it as they're not looking at the whole picture.

Take this week's unpleasantness: Ashley becoming an assist trophy. Many people openly frustrated at the reveal. Then you get those "Hey, at least she's in at all!" or "If I were you I'd be happy Sakurai even bothered..." and all that crap.

The reality: How will a favored character that's an Assist Trophy / Boss / Stage Hazard be treated?

- Occasional appearances during battles
- Gets to act mostly like they do in their respective games
- Minor or moderate interactions with other players and other characters
- Capable of creating some good or decent memorable moments over the course of the game's prime.
- ...And a trophy and stickers.

...And how will a favored character that's a part of the primary roster be treated?

- Appearances during battles fully dependent on players and overall popularity
- Players get to interpret their behavior using a plethora of source-inspired actions
- Maximum interactions with other players and characters
- Maximum interactions with lesser elements
- Full appearance and application within all single-player modes
- A myriad of data and information to interpret and research and archive
- Possibly years of exposure guaranteed to create attachments and generate fans
- Potential exposure to large crowds via competitive tournaments
- ... And several trophies and stickers

There's just no comparison. Some people are willing to just settle to see their favorite character simply show up and play their role, and some people look to the stars hoping to see their favorite character handled in the most prestigious manner possible. And some want their character like a child wants that awesome new toy for Christmas.

Seeing all of those comments from Ashley supporters made me pretty sad. I was never really a fan for Ashley, but I completely understand their disappointment over not being able to get the chance to play as their favorite character. Also, I was kind of surprised to find out that she's also quite a popular candidate in Japan, considering that ChronoBound had said earlier that support for other Wario characters never showed up when he did his analysis.

 

[BKupa666]

Seeing all of those comments from Ashley supporters made me pretty sad. I was never really a fan for Ashley, but I completely understand their disappointment over not being able to get the chance to play as their favorite character. Also, I was kind of surprised to find out that she's also quite a popular candidate in Japan, considering that ChronoBound had said earlier that support for other Wario characters never showed up when he did his analysis.

When did this come to light?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Ridley being broken would make him legendary and even more infamous! :D

Either way though, wanting playable Ridley got me thinking about how some people believe others should just be happy a character they like is repped in any form. And I realize they really don't get it as they're not looking at the whole picture.

Take this week's unpleasantness: Ashley becoming an assist trophy. Many people openly frustrated at the reveal. Then you get those "Hey, at least she's in at all!" or "If I were you I'd be happy Sakurai even bothered..." and all that crap.

The reality: How will a favored character that's an Assist Trophy / Boss / Stage Hazard be treated?

- Occasional appearances during battles
- Gets to act mostly like they do in their respective games
- Minor or moderate interactions with other players and other characters
- Capable of creating some good or decent memorable moments over the course of the game's prime.
- ...And a trophy and stickers.

...And how will a favored character that's a part of the primary roster be treated?

- Appearances during battles fully dependent on players and overall popularity
- Players get to interpret their behavior using a plethora of source-inspired actions
- Maximum interactions with other players and characters
- Maximum interactions with lesser elements
- Full appearance and application within all single-player modes
- A myriad of data and information to interpret and research and archive
- Possibly years of exposure guaranteed to create attachments and generate fans
- Potential exposure to large crowds via competitive tournaments
- ... And several trophies and stickers

There's just no comparison. Some people are willing to just settle to see their favorite character simply show up and play their role, and some people look to the stars hoping to see their favorite character handled in the most prestigious manner possible. And some want their character like a child wants that awesome new toy for Christmas.

Oi... It's all just a reminder of the odd fine line of difference between fans who will settle for rubbish ("Hey, at least be happy Sakurai bothered to put 'em in the game at all!", etc.) and the kind of stubbornfans that like Ridley's or K. Rool's are mostly composed of, who will settle for nothing less than their character being put on the roster. When push comes to shove though, I'd rather be seen as a butthurt fan in the long run (much as I'd hate to be labeled as such) than as a sheepfan who will settle for anything no matter how objectively bad it is (Dyna Blade Ridley).

 

[Anomilus]

When push comes to shove though, I'd rather be seen as a butthurt fan in the long run (much as I'd hate to be labeled as such) than as a sheepfan who will settle for anything no matter how objectively bad it is (Dyna Blade Ridley).

To play devil's advocate, I can't really agree that Brawl Ridley was objectively bad. If gauged by how accurate he was to his actual games, yeah he wasn't all that great, but he did look great. But whether or not he was good or bad overall is heavily subjective. And in this case, there are a lot of people that thought Ridley's appearance was ultimately good. That includes people who like the Metroid series.

I think we can't really approach this saying "Brawl Ridley was bad". It ought to be approached saying "Ridley can be so much more". And that's definitely fact.



BTW...

Nobody commented on my updated Ridley Victory theme... I did attempt to make it sound less heroic, and I think it came out better than the previous song. Not 100% perfect, but that's not gonna happen. But it does do what I wanted it to do: Rep both Ridley and Metroid, giving him a sound that emphasizes his greatness.

 

[IsmaR]

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the work they put as far as the texture/model, cutscene, and overall fanservice they put in (tail scrape move, not one but 2 boss fights, the remix of Ridley's theme...though it still doesn't make sense to me why they not only didn't use Vs Meta Ridley when fighting him, but had it play on the level BEFORE encountering him), and so on. But it didn't make up in the slightest for the disappointment that lingers to this day.

 

[BKupa666]

Oi... It's all just a reminder of the odd fine line of difference between fans who will settle for rubbish ("Hey, at least be happy Sakurai bothered to put 'em in the game at all!", etc.) and the kind of stubbornfans that like Ridley's or K. Rool's are mostly composed of, who will settle for nothing less than their character being put on the roster. When push comes to shove though, I'd rather be seen as a butthurt fan in the long run (much as I'd hate to be labeled as such) than as a sheepfan who will settle for anything no matter how objectively bad it is (Dyna Blade Ridley).

This is correct. K. Roodley fans will settle for nothing less than roster spots because, quite frankly, it's disgraceful to have such key characters anywhere else. These guys aren't one-shot antagonists, generic player three/fours, or mini-game background females, they're their franchise's main villains, vying for spots in a game where characters well below their caliber are already nestled in comfortably. This isn't even getting into how seamlessly they fit in, nor how many people want them to show up.

 

[AustarusIV]

When did this come to light?

I looked at this picture from the Miiverse Daily Smash 4 Photos Thread. There are some posts from Japanese players here, a few of which wonder if Ashley is unpopular overseas.

I probably exaggerated my post earlier, although I don't think she was someone who was never requested in her native country. On the other hand, it could merely just be a handful of people mourning their loss.

 

[IsmaR]

When did this come to light?

It really wasn't that hard to determine whether a young/cute magical female tsundere would be popular in Japan.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

To play devil's advocate, I can't really agree that Brawl Ridley was objectively bad. If gauged by how accurate he was to his actual games, yeah he wasn't all that great, but he did look great. But whether or not he was good or bad overall is heavily subjective. And in this case, there are a lot of people that thought Ridley's appearance was ultimately good. That includes people who like the Metroid series.

I think we can't really approach this saying "Brawl Ridley was bad". It ought to be approached saying "Ridley can be so much more". And that's definitely fact.


BTW...

Nobody commented on my updated Ridley Victory theme... I did attempt to make it sound less heroic, and I think it came out better than the previous song. Not 100% perfect, but that's not gonna happen. But it does do what I wanted it to do: Rep both Ridley and Metroid, giving him a sound that emphasizes his greatness.

For the record, was talking solely about his Brawl boss fight itself (hurr, I'm gonna just float idly by here every few seconds in between every attack so you can keep hitting me, filthy casuals!), not the overall package with Ridley content in the game (the music and everything else was great!).

I guess objectively may have not been the best choice of words for it or just me having one of those moments when thinking about how much better he is as a boss/enemy in his actual series , but anyway, yeah. Great design/model Brawl Ridley had too (both in-game and cutscene, so don't get me wrong), but in the end it was still Ridley in pretty much name and appearance only. Do you deny that?


Yeah, my first thought was how you made the theme sound less heroic, which was about as good as could be expected, given what you were using. Again though, nice work on it.

 

[Anomilus]

In a way, Ridley's behavior isn't really a good fit for Sakurai's style. At least for Smash. We've seen how Sakurai designs bosses, both in and out of Smash. They've always had this passive-to-aggressive shifting style. They're either on full attack and you need to get away, or they're wide open and you go all out. On the contrast, Metroid bosses in general often exist in a state of constant threatening. Aside from some exceptions like Spore Spawn (dropping spores while moving about, one of the few bosses to actively allow their weak points to be struck), you have semi-aggressive bosses like Botwoon (shifts between moving around and stationary projectile attacks), passive-aggressive bosses like Crocomire and Serris (the latter mainly moving all over the screen, but can do so at extreme speeds). Then you have the highly aggressive bosses like Phantoon and Our The Ridley. These guys are almost always launching attacks and moving about which in turn forces the players to constantly be on guard and looking for opportunities to attack.

In Smash, something like that can only work if the boss is designed to behave like an actual fighter, Giga Bowser being a prime example. And that is even more of a reason to want Ridley playable. Those that say Ridley would work better in Smash as a boss likely don't really care to even dwell on Ridley that much beyond what's put right in front of their eyes.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I wan't a broken Ridley

 

[UltimateWario]

I wan't a broken Ridley

You've already got broken grammar, you're already halfway there!

I kid, I kid.

 

[BKupa666]

I would love the idea of Ridley being ridiculously overpowered, as this would lead to him being ubiquitous throughout the SSB4 tournament scene. This, in turn, would rub Ridley's playability in the face of toobigots everywhere for generations to come, even moreso than would already happen. But hey, on a less petty note, I'd also be happy to see Ridley as a competent competitive character for the reason that it may pave the way for better heavyweight balance in general as well.

 

[Empyrean]

Ridley only, no items, Pyrosphere.

I just hopes he's not as underpowered as Brawl Ganon. And for the sake of having a nice and diverse meta, I wouldn't want him to be MK OP, even though it would be a very funny in-your-face to Ridley haters like BKupa said.

 

[soviet prince]

I just want him in even if he is the worse character to ever exist

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Hopefully this game has at least 1 character to hype for other than Mega Man.

Seriously, Ridley K Rool or bust.

 

[Morbi]

Hopefully this game has at least 1 character to hype for other than Mega Man.

Seriously, Ridley K Rool or bust.

I honestly think Mewtwo is sufficient enough. Ridley would be so hype though.

 

[Welshy91]

These guys aren't one-shot antagonists, generic player three/fours, or mini-game background females.

You just **** on Toad, Ashley,and Ghirahim all in one post. You just became my favorite poster.

I honestly think Mewtwo is sufficient enough. Ridley would be so hype though.

You're somewhat less ded2me now.

I'd rather not people ***** about how broken Ridley is.

Seriously, I want to see him used to the best of his ability in tournaments instead of just being banned from everything. Also, Meta Knight's not fun to play as because it doesn't take much effort to overpower your foe with his insane speed and broken priority.

And ew, gliding runs are gross.

**** you and the things you like.

 

[UltimateWario]

**** you and the things you like.

ahl bust ye ****in 'ead in i swear on me mum

 

[Welshy91]

ahl bust ye ****in 'ead in i swear on me mum

 

[BKupa666]

You just **** on Toad, Ashley,and Ghirahim all in one post. You just became my favorite poster.

That was a shot at Skull Kid, not Ghirahim. I can empathize with their supporters who may not have expected such characters, but thought they'd be a cool treat, but when the vocal supporters try to make every minor disconfirmed character out to be this monumental loss that no one saw coming, that's when the eyerolling starts.

 

[Welshy91]

That was a shot at Skull Kid, not Ghirahim. I can empathize with their supporters who may not have expected such characters, but thought they'd be a cool treat, but when the vocal supporters try to make every minor disconfirmed character out to be this monumental loss that no one saw coming, that's when the eyerolling starts.

Heh, I had already forgotten about Skull Kid. Makes sense Sakurai would condemn him to AT status if people already don't really care about the diminished role he's resigned to.
Giving the business to Toad was sufficient enough for you to win major points in my book.

 

[IsmaR]

I would love the idea of Ridley being ridiculously overpowered, as this would lead to him being ubiquitous throughout the SSB4 tournament scene. This, in turn, would rub Ridley's playability in the face of toobigots everywhere for generations to come, even moreso than would already happen. But hey, on a less petty note, I'd also be happy to see Ridley as a competent competitive character for the reason that it may pave the way for better heavyweight balance in general as well.

This sentiment is shared, not only for Ridley, but for fellow heavyweight newcomers.

 

[BKupa666]

Heh, I had already forgotten about Skull Kid. Makes sense Sakurai would condemn him to AT status if people already don't really care about the diminished role he's resigned to.
Giving the business to Toad was sufficient enough for you to win major points in my book.

Toad is a more sympathetic case, because he's easily iconic enough to merit playability, and even though a lot of people find the character dull as dishwater, myself included, Sakurai could still maybe have done something with him. However, when a handful of Toad fanatics kept on denying his disconfirmation by any means necessary, my sympathy waned a lot. It'd be like going nuts about Meta Ridley or Kaptain K. Rool still having a chance if the characters themselves were revealed in some other role.

Anyway, this is off-topic for the Ridley thread, so let's stick to talking about his balance.

 

[Welshy91]

It'd be like going nuts about Meta Ridley or Kaptain K. Rool still having a chance if the characters themselves were revealed in some other role.

But...uh they could use a different Ridley, they did it with Toon Link! And aren't Kaptain K. Rool and King K. Rool brothers in Japan?

Sorry, I'm just practicing grasping at straws should the unspeakable happen.

 

[BKupa666]

But...uh they could use a different Ridley, they did it with Toon Link! And aren't Kaptain K. Rool and King K. Rool brothers in Japan?

Sorry, I'm just practicing grasping at straws should the unspeakable happen.

Could? Yes. Would? Not likely at all. K. Roodley would use their iconic designs (or, in the purple one's case, potentially his Other M one) if they got in.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I like this Ridley