Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[CardiganBoy]

Btw guys, check this:

http://nintendoeverything.com/miyam...very-high-priority-for-new-potential-metroid/

I read the article and this quote from Miyamoto is very interesting:

“Certainly the Metroid franchise is one that, when you talk about really bringing the world to life, we feel that Metroid and the characters established are really important for Nintendo. So important that they were included, obviously, in Nintendo Land".

Mr. Miyamoto would have been put Ridley in if he was in that charge in Smash Brother.

 

[Starcutter]

I don't suppose that anyone's seen this one? specifically, the ridley part?

 

[Kamiko]

Just thought of a neat idea for a down Smash. Ridley raises his wings up, then brings them down hard. Does mediocre damage, but pushes nearby opponents away and launches Ridley high into the air. Acts as a slow starting superjump.

Also, I think it would be cool if we had rising lava, but it never actually covers the stage. It just stays there for the remainder of the match, preventing bottom border KOs.

 

[Arcanir]

The denial...

Ridley was fought in Pyroshere. Not Phantoon. It doesn't make sence.

The Balloon Fighter Fish wasn't in Ice Climbers at all and it appeared in the Summit, do not think for a moment that Sakurai couldn't do something like that.

Having said that, I doubt it will be Phantoon, as cool as that would be.

 

[masterluigi1]

Again, nobody said it'd be possible, people just said he'd be a way cooler hazard.

And god bless the people that haven't played Other M, because they aren't tainted.

I really don't see were they went wrong in other M. it was my favorite Metroid game. alot of people here bash the game and havn't even played it.

 

[Arcanir]

I really don't see were they went wrong in other M. it was my favorite Metroid game. alot of people here bash the game and havn't even played it.

Execution really, it had the potential to be a great game but botched it in certain areas, the story being the biggest one due to poor consistency between game characterization for Samus and poorly written characterization/plotlines in general.

This video explains it excellently:

 

[DraginHikari]

Other M featured some story hiccups that didn't go well with a lot of people which contrdicted how Samus had been portrayed previously seemingly mostly trying to apply story reasons for power up gaining that seems came off awkard.. That's the short version of it... the long version has been done to death.

 

[Mypantisgone]

I think it's likely that this stage will have rising lava.
The platforms are small,immobile and far from each other,I think this means that at one point,the lava will rise and you'll have to go on these platforms and you might get separated from the other player during this short phase.Also there are 4 platforms like 4 players but I don't that this means much.
Just my 2 cent.

 

[Xhampi]

I was wondering, did we see the Final Destination stage for SSB4 yet ?

What if it was replaced by the boxing ring and Sakurai give us the Pyrosphere so the players can still have their flat stage with no gimmicks that they love so much ?

 

[N3ON]

I was wondering, did we see the Final Destination stage for SSB4 yet ?

What if it was replaced by the boxing ring and Sakurai give us the Pyrosphere so the players can still have their flat stage with no gimmicks that they love so much ?

FD is never usually shown until the game starts leaking, it's pretty inevitable we'll get a variation of it this game, it's a series staple.

Plus I very much doubt the Pyrosphere will be free from gimmicks. Also it has platforms, and that already differentiates it from FD. The Boxing Ring could be a gimmick-free flat stage though, with the only difference being the fact that it's grounded.

 

[Protom]

Execution really, it had the potential to be a great game but botched it in certain areas, the story being the biggest one due to poor consistency between game characterization for Samus and poorly written characterization/plotlines in general.

This video explains it excellently:

Gotta love extra creditz...

 

[Xhampi]

FD is never usually shown until the game starts leaking, it's pretty inevitable we'll get a variation of it this game, it's a series staple.

Oh, I see, I always tought Final Destination was announce quite early, that's when happen when you weren't back in brawl days, my bad ^u^'

 

[Kamikazek]

I read the article and this quote from Miyamoto is very interesting:

“Certainly the Metroid franchise is one that, when you talk about really bringing the world to life, we feel that Metroid and the characters established are really important for Nintendo. So important that they were included, obviously, in Nintendo Land".

Mr. Miyamoto would have been put Ridley in if he was in that charge in Smash Brother.

Would have put him in, yeah. So did Sakurai. Ridley is IN Brawl. In a fairly high exposure role in fact. He's just not playable. As for whether Miyamoto would have made Ridley playable(and how many games down the line it would take for him to do so), who knows.

 

[masterluigi1]

Execution really, it had the potential to be a great game but botched it in certain areas, the story being the biggest one due to poor consistency between game characterization for Samus and poorly written characterization/plotlines in general.

This video explains it excellently:

Please explain what was so wrong and inconsistant about the characterization of Samus in other M because that video did a poor job. meaning it talked about how Samus' character had flaws but didn't specifically note any so tell me some.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

Please explain what was so wrong and inconsistant about the characterization of Samus in other M because that video did a poor job. meaning it talked about how Samus' character had flaws but didn't specifically note any so tell me some.

Samus isn't supposed to talk that much. Samus isn't supposed to be weak or subservient to her commanding officers. Samus isn't supposed to break down and cry when she sees Ridley.

when Samus did talk before Other M, it was in Fusion, and she was giving backtalk and ordering around her CO at the time. Other M characterized her as a weak female submissive to authority, a character archetype popular with Japanese gamers (for whom Other M was designed). she should've been a strong heroine who did things as she saw fit.

 

[Arcanir]

Please explain what was so wrong and inconsistant about the characterization of Samus in other M because that video did a poor job. meaning it talked about how Samus' character had flaws but didn't specifically note any so tell me some.

Here's the big ones:
-Samus' refusal to use her equipment even in life-threatening situations. There's no reason for her to de-equip things like the Grapple Beam and Varia Suit since it harms no one, and the latter is even more ridiculous since she ignores it when she's boiling alive in a lava level. Hell, even in the occasions where her weapons are needed (like the Space Pirates assaulting her in the glass cage and she refuses to use the Wave Beam), she still refuses to use them until Adam says "OK." So now she blindly obeys orders that nearly get her killed, and for a person that isn't developed enough to explain why she's so willing to put her life in danger for him.

-The Ridley scene: Just in general, this scene is done poorly. For the past, it refuses to explain anything about why the character's freaking out and if you don't know the manga or the rest of the background material, you'll be scratching your head this whole time. It's not good storytelling to rely on other material to explain the story. Presently, it's poorly placed because even if the character has PTSD, it's not something you can turn on or off at a whim story-wise and it doesn't pop up in any of the other games so there's no consistency with that scene. Finally, even from a developmental standpoint, it falls flat. What could've happened is that Samus learns to deal with that trauma more efficiently so that she struggles but still kicks his ass. That... doesn't happen. She does chase Ridley out, but then he's unceremoniously taken out by something else, so Samus doesn't get redeemed there and misses an opportunity to develop, so the scene is just pointless because there's nothing gained by it.

-Samus not calling out Adam for shooting her in the back: There is no good reason for this, she's obeyed every order by him so there's no reason to believe she wouldn't one more time and he doesn't even try to warn her beforehand. On top of that, he shoots her before shooting the Metroid, putting her in grave danger on the worry that it's resistant to freezing... and yet he uses a freeze gun to do it. So he not only put her down on the hypothesis that it's unfreezeable, he put her life in danger on that idea even when it could've backfired on both of them, and yet Samus doesn't even call him out for it! It comes off really badly for both since she takes a hit from him and doesn't hold anything against him for it and Adam comes off as a complete ****.

-The portrayal of the character: The thing is characters can have doubts, but it seems that the story took too much time to focus on those doubts and monologues without giving too much else to the character. We don't see her really develop so much as keep talking about the events and Adam, she doesn't even say "I feel this" or "I don't like this," it's always about telling us the events without much emotion. So it makes her seem a bit overly immature. Now, if the character developed from this then there may've not have been as much problem, but of course they forego that as well and she's still monologuing and the like as she was before.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Please explain what was so wrong and inconsistant about the characterization of Samus in other M because that video did a poor job. meaning it talked about how Samus' character had flaws but didn't specifically note any so tell me some.

Samus' character prior to Other M was pretty rebellious against the Galactic Federation. However, in Other M we see her scolding herself for being rebellious against the Federation in her younger days, and furthermore she never even questions Adam and his incredibly whacky "authorization" commands. All of that makes no sense as she very clearly isn't all too happy with the Federation in Fusion, which is the next story arc, and she even goes against AI Adam's commands.

Samus is also constantly bickering throughout the game, she reminds me of a teenage girl. Samus as we knew her pre-Other M was a strong, independant woman that took responsibility for her past actions. In this game, she does nothing but weep over her past choices regarding the Federation and the Baby Metroid. And again, the attachment to the Baby Metroid is also very iffy, considering she willingly handed the Baby to scientists for them to experiment on it, the next time she saw the baby after that was when it tried to kill her in Tourian, and one last time when it was killed. The only time Samus would ever have felt anything for the baby was when it was killed, she never had a deep connection with it, so that forced story arc, which leads nowhere btw, makes no sense. She comes off very much of a "oh poor me" character, and as someone who doesn't take responsibility for her past actions.

Even then, Samus herself isn't the biggest problem with the game's story, it's the gazillion plotholes. For example, when she approaches Sector Zero she sees a baby Metroid, she then gets shot in the back by Adam. When she asks Adam why he shot her, he tells her it's because the Metroid is immune to cold, but furthermore explains that it was in its infant stage so it isn't developed to that point. So why the **** didn't you just shoot the Metroid? There was absolutely NO reason he should shoot her, even if the Metroid was immune to cold he'd simply put her life at greater risk by shooting her. It's never explained, and it makes Adam come off as a ****nut.

Then we have the "Deleter" plot, another storyline which leads absolutely nowhere. So this Deleter guy goes around and kills the Federation troops, okay, that kind of sucks, we have no reason to care for any of these Federation guys besides Anthony, but yeah. They die one after another, and then suddenly this whole Deleter plot disappears for half of the game. It's never properly explained who it is, I can't even remember who it is, I never found out for sure who it was when I first played it, but it's just some random guy who is found dead later on, and the whole pointless story arc ends on the most odd and weird note ever, it's like they wanted this arc to be in the game at first, but decided to drop it later on and end it immediately.

There's also this whole MB/Melissa thing, which is handed at least decently, but the story never gives us a reason to care. When MB fell dead over and Melissa ran to her, why should I care? As a viewer, I need to be given a reason to care for these characters and the situation, I'm not just gonna care all of a sudden because I know it's fiction. Make me like these characters before you do anything with them. That's the problem with this part of the story, it's only revealed right before the end what this whole MB deal is, and not long after that, MB is killed, and it's supposed to be some kind of sad-fest, but it isn't, because I don't care about either MB or Melissa, because they were never properly established.

These are just some of the plotholes, then we of course have the infamous Ridley scene and many more hiccups, not to mention the tediously boring inner monologues that Samus has throughout the game.

The gameplay is not bad by any means, Team Ninja did a good job with what they were supposed to do, it was Sakamoto and his awkward story that was very clumsily delivered that's the main problem with the game. Furthermore, if they really wanted to delve into Samus' character, then they shouldn't have picked the Federation point of her story. Samus' experiences before that, seeing her parents get killed by Ridley, and her being raised by the Chozo, would be much more interesting and is a much more central part of her character. Having her story told from the beginning would also be a much better lead up to why she is actually so frightened by Ridley, as someone who doesn't know the story wouldn't understand jack**** of why she's so scared. The Chozo part of her story would also delve into how she's become such a super-warrior, which would be much more interesting to know for a newcomer to the series. These points are important in understanding her character and why she is like she is and should be handled before anything else. Instead, we get some story about how Samus has lived a daily teenage life at the Federation, which is far from as interesting or important.

These are my problems with the game in short.

 

[Anomilus]

Incidentally, for the curious, Ridley is my most-wanted SSB character. I mean, come on…Metroid seriously needs another rep, before anything else!

Heh, awesome to have a (sort of) celebrity on our side! :D

 

[Opossum]

“Certainly the Metroid franchise is one that, when you talk about really bringing the world to life, we feel that Metroid and the characters established are really important for Nintendo. So important that they were included, obviously, in Nintendo Land".

Well, at least now we can throw the weak "Metroid is about isolation; Samus is the only character we need" argument out the window with exuberance.

 

[masterluigi1]

Here's the big ones:
-Samus' refusal to use her equipment even in life-threatening situations. There's no reason for her to de-equip things like the Grapple Beam and Varia Suit since it harms no one, and the latter is even more ridiculous since she ignores it when she's boiling alive in a lava level. Hell, even in the occasions where her weapons are needed (like the Space Pirates assaulting her in the glass cage and she refuses to use the Wave Beam), she still refuses to use them until Adam says "OK." So now she blindly obeys orders that nearly get her killed, and for a person that isn't developed enough to explain why she's so willing to put her life in danger for him.

did you not hear the part in the beginning where they said that the bottle ship is an unknown place. meaning that, in order to increase the probability of completing the mission Samus has to restrict her abilities?
and even if there was no harm in some of her abilities it really didn't matter because none of those abilities were really NEEDED until late in the game and Adam always told Samus to use her abilities at the RIGHT TIME

and how is Adam not developed enough to know why Samus would put her life in danger for him?
did you not see how much Samus trusts Adams judgments?
did you not watch the flashbacks of Samus and Adam's interactions?

scratch that.....did you even play the game?

-The Ridley scene: Just in general, this scene is done poorly. For the past, it refuses to explain anything about why the character's freaking out and if you don't know the manga or the rest of the background material, you'll be scratching your head this whole time. It's not good storytelling to rely on other material to explain the story. Presently, it's poorly placed because even if the character has PTSD, it's not something you can turn on or off at a whim story-wise and it doesn't pop up in any of the other games so there's no consistency with that scene. Finally, even from a developmental standpoint, it falls flat. What could've happened is that Samus learns to deal with that trauma more efficiently so that she struggles but still kicks his ***. That... doesn't happen. She does chase Ridley out, but then he's unceremoniously taken out by something else, so Samus doesn't get redeemed there and misses an opportunity to develop, so the scene is just pointless because there's nothing gained by it.

Why does everything need to be explained in this game.
as far as I'm concerned, if people want to know more about samus' character PDST just read the manga.
there is no need to explain everything thats in the manga in THIS game.

The thing is that, even without PDST her reaction could be reasonably explained.

the reason she freaked out about Ridley is because she thought she had already KILLED HIM and the space pirates.

The reason she didn't freak out at ridley in the Prime games is because space pirates being alive always created the possibity that he could be revived.
it was not until she exterminated ALL of ridley's followers that she thought he wouldn't be back.

-Samus not calling out Adam for shooting her in the back: There is no good reason for this, she's obeyed every order by him so there's no reason to believe she wouldn't one more time and he doesn't even try to warn her beforehand. On top of that, he shoots her before shooting the Metroid, putting her in grave danger on the worry that it's resistant to freezing... and yet he uses a freeze gun to do it. So he not only put her down on the hypothesis that it's unfreezeable, he put her life in danger on that idea even when it could've backfired on both of them, and yet Samus doesn't even call him out for it! It comes off really badly for both since she takes a hit from him and doesn't hold anything against him for it and Adam comes off as a complete ****.

I don't think you understand why Adam shot her in the first place. Adam Shot samus to prevent her from fighting a metroid that he THOUGHT was immune to cold.
"MY GUESS is that it was in a larval stage" -Adam

he shot Samus and was planning on simply stunning the metroid so he could move Samus away from there.

-The portrayal of the character: The thing is characters can have doubts, but it seems that the story took too much time to focus on those doubts and monologues without giving too much else to the character. We don't see her really develop so much as keep talking about the events and Adam, she doesn't even say "I feel this" or "I don't like this," it's always about telling us the events without much emotion. So it makes her seem a bit overly immature. Now, if the character developed from this then there may've not have been as much problem, but of course they forego that as well and she's still monologuing and the like as she was before.

so Samus never expressed her emotions? it was all dull?
maybe you could make the arguement for her voice to be "dull"
maybe you could make the arguement for her voice to be "dull" but not her emotions wtf

The Only thing thatI will say was done not so great was the conclusion of the Deleter plot

 

[Arcanir]

did you not hear the part in the beginning where they said that the bottle ship is an unknown place. meaning that, in order to increase the probability of completing the mission Samus has to restrict her abilities?
and even if there was no harm in some of her abilities it really didn't matter because none of those abilities were really NEEDED until late in the game and Adam always told Samus to use her abilities at the RIGHT TIME

I did, it still doesn't make sense to not use obvious things that would save your life. Also, she needed the Varia Suit in the lava level, are you honestly going to tell me it's better to walk through a hot, dangerous place without protection?

and how is Adam not developed enough to know why Samus would put her life in danger for him?
did you not see how much Samus trusts Adams judgments?
did you not watch the flashbacks of Samus and Adam's interactions?

No, all I saw were action scenes that did little to show the interaction between the characters on a personal level. There's not one moment where I thought they really got each other.

scratch that.....did you even play the game?

Yes I did, and don't belittle anyone in an argument, it just makes you look like an ass.

The thing is that, even without PDST this her reaction could be reasonably explained.

the reason she freaked out about Ridley is because she thought she had already KILLED HIM and the space pirates.

The reason she didn't freak out at ridley in the Prime games is because space pirates being alive always created the possibity that he could be revived.
it was not until she exterminated ALL of ridley's followers that she thought he wouldn't be back.

Canonically, she killed him at least twice by then, five times including the Prime games. On top of that, the station was shown to have cloned multiple creatures from her past, so that still doesn't make sense on any level that she wouldn't expect him, much less fear him.

I don't think you understand why Adam shot her in the first place. Adam Shot samus to prevent her from fighting a metroid that he THOUGHT was immune to cold.
"MY GUESS is that it was in a larval stage" -Adam

he shot Samus and was planning on simply stunning the metroid so he could move Samus away from there.

Key word here: Thought. Why does he shoot her based on a hypothesis that could be wrong? Especially when the action puts her life in danger.

Also, what opportunity was there for her to get out of the way? She's down for the count during that entire scene, she was basically Metroid food at that moment.

so Samus never expressed her emotions? it was all dull?
wtf please go play the game LMAO

The Only thing thatI will say was done not so great was the conclusion of the Deleter plot

Wow, just wow...

I don't consider reiterating what we already knew emotions, she does not express herself well. Samus showing regret for not saving her friends in Prime 3 is emotion, Samus talking about how she feels with little tone shows no emotion. I'll admit there's one time she actually genuinely expresses herself, but that's it. Everything else is done through monologue, and that does not develop the character.

 

[Chandeelure]

 

[MasterOfKnees]

did you not hear the part in the beginning where they said that the bottle ship is an unknown place. meaning that, in order to increase the probability of completing the mission Samus has to restrict her abilities?
and even if there was no harm in some of her abilities it really didn't matter because none of those abilities were really NEEDED until late in the game and Adam always told Samus to use her abilities at the RIGHT TIME

and how is Adam not developed enough to know why Samus would put her life in danger for him?
did you not see how much Samus trusts Adams judgments?
did you not watch the flashbacks of Samus and Adam's interactions?

scratch that.....did you even play the game?


The thing is that, even without PDST this her reaction could be reasonably explained.

the reason she freaked out about Ridley is because she thought she had already KILLED HIM and the space pirates.

The reason she didn't freak out at ridley in the Prime games is because space pirates being alive always created the possibity that he could be revived.
it was not until she exterminated ALL of ridley's followers that she thought he wouldn't be back.


I don't think you understand why Adam shot her in the first place. Adam Shot samus to prevent her from fighting a metroid that he THOUGHT was immune to cold.
"MY GUESS is that it was in a larval stage" -Adam

he shot Samus and was planning on simply stunning the metroid so he could move Samus away from there.


so Samus never expressed her emotions? it was all dull?
wtf please go play the game LMAO

The Only thing thatI will say was done not so great was the conclusion of the Deleter plot

Adam sure didn't allow Samus to use her abilities at the right time, considering she had to go through the Pyrosphere without the Varia Suit, only to have him allow the use of it halfway through. BAD TIMING.

And concerning Samus and Adam's relations. We never actually see them be friends of any sort, we hear how much Samus looks up to him, but whenever we see a flashback they're constantly being ignorant towards one another. The only time they have any sort of good connection between each other is right before Adam dies, up until then I sure didn't feel like they would have any respect towards each other, because while Samus spoke a lot about it, the only thing we saw was Adam ignoring Samus and holding despise against her for leaving the Federation.

The Ridley thing is incredibly flawed. First off, the Space Pirates weren't completely eradicated in Super Metroid, they inhabit millions of planets in the universe, while Zebes had become their main base of operations it still didn't wipe them out. Samus should in theory be a lot more shocked to see Ridley return the first time, that being in Metroid Prime, but her immediate reaction then was to get the hell out of the place. Furthermore, as soon as she saw the Space Pirate clones she should have imagined Ridley returning possible, as he had done that countless times already. There's no excuse for it, it's really just rehashed writing from the Metroid Manga, a story that Sakamoto also directed, but it was handled incredibly rushed in comparison. Btw, she actually wins over her fears of Ridley in the Metroid Manga, and that is 100% canon, so it makes no sense that it comes back by the 5th or 6th times he comes back from the dead.

And again, Adam could just have shot the Metroid to begin with. By shooting Samus he put her life in greater danger than if he had tried to stun it first. Even then his first reaction was to shoot it with ice, and it's never indicated in the dialog that he was trying to stun it either, so that's just an assumption on your part. The reason he shot Samus was to make some kind of tension in the story, but as a writer you don't just do that for the heck of it, there needs to be a reason behind it, which is never explained.

Samus does express emotions, but it comes off as incredibly fake because of the monotome voice, which is also Sakamoto's directing. She also just repeats herself over and over, and it's not in character for Samus to regret something so small as leaving the Federation when she has had much bigger troubles in her life.

Now I'm off to bed, see ya all tommorow, hopefully there'll be a little less Other M on the schedule by then.

 

[masterluigi1]

I did, it still doesn't make sense to not use obvious things that would save your life. Also, she needed the Varia Suit in the lava level, are you honestly going to tell me it's better to walk through a hot, dangerous place without
protection?

Do you not understand the simple concept that by this being an UNKNOWN ship that using abilities could endanger the environment that they are trying to investigate or the ship?

No, all I saw were action scenes that did little to show the interaction between the characters. There's not one moment where I thought they really got each other on a personal level.

okay if you say you've actually played the game then that means you've forgoten the flashbacks surrounding her past?
you know the ones without action?

Yes I did, and don't belittle anyone in an argument, it just makes you look like an ***.

I'm not belittling you it just seems that you havn't played the game (and alot of people here havn't btw)

Canonically, she killed him at least twice by then, five times including the Prime games. On top of that, the station was shown to have cloned multiple creatures from her past, so that still doesn't make sense on any level that she wouldn't expect him, much less fear him.

lol theres a difference between "mutiple creatures" from her past and Ridley.
...you know the one who killed her parents?

not to mention she expressed that she thought they wouldn't develop this far

Key word here: Thought. Why does he shoot her based on a hypothesis that could be wrong? Especially when the action puts her life in danger.

yes, the keyword here is thought.
because that Hypothesis was most likely true, in which case she would have been KILLED by that baby Metroid had he not shot her.

Also, what opportunity was there for her to get out of the way? She's down for the count during that entire scene, she was basically Metroid food at that moment.

I said Adam would get her out of the way while the metroid was temporarily stunned.

Wow, just wow...

I don't consider reiterating what we already knew emotions, she does not express herself well. Samus showing regret for not saving her friends in Prime 3 is emotion, Samus talking about how she feels with little tone shows no emotion. I'll admit there's one time she actually expresses herself, but that's it. Everything else is done through monologue, and that does not develop the character

That monologue expressed how she was feeling at that moment...
did you miss how she expressed emotion to her former comrads? hence the thumbs down
did you miss how she expressed emotion about how she regretted leaving the federation?
did you miss how she felt during Adam's death?Adams brothers death?
RIDLEY????

why do I have explaining these things to you(a person who's played the game?) you should already know this.

 

[Anomilus]

Site's back up, now I can post my lengthy reply to masterluigi1's post...

...

...Oh...

...I'M POSTING IT ANYWAY!! HI-YAH!!!

did you not hear the part in the beginning where they said that the bottle ship is an unknown place. meaning that, in order to increase the probability of completing the mission Samus has to restrict her abilities?
and even if there was no harm in some of her abilities it really didn't matter because none of those abilities were really NEEDED until late in the game and Adam always told Samus to use her abilities at the RIGHT TIME

I can understand having a different point of view, but it just sounds like you're making excuses for the game. And this is somebody who never found the Authorization thing that terrible. It is admittedly handled a bit clumsily. We all know they needed a reason for Samus to "upgrade" her abilities, but there would be a lot less complaints about authorization had it been done with a bit more respect to the story and the players' intelligence.

and how is Adam not developed enough to know why Samus would put her life in danger for him?
did you not see how much Samus trusts Adams judgments?
did you not watch the flashbacks of Samus and Adam's interactions?

scratch that.....did you even play the game?

First, being condescending is a good way to dash your credibility here and get people to stop taking you seriously.

Secondly, there's trusting somebody's judgment, and then there's just plain not thinking for yourself. From the player's perspective, all we know is that scene of Adam allowing his brother to die for the sake of the mission while Samus openly questioned his judgment. That one scene is just not enough. In fact it tends to add more to the perception of Samus's submissiveness to authority rather than illustrating any bond of trust or respect. A more positive scene between the two might have helped. And that silly "Thumbs Down" thing doesn't cut it at all.

Why does everything need to be explained in this game.
as far as I'm concerned, if people want to know more about samus' character PDST just read the manga.

there is no need to explain everything thats in the manga in THIS game.

The thing is that, even without PDST her reaction could be reasonably explained.

the reason she freaked out about Ridley is because she thought she had already KILLED HIM and the space pirates.

The reason she didn't freak out at ridley in the Prime games is because space pirates being alive always created the possibity that he could be revived.
it was not until she exterminated ALL of ridley's followers that she thought he wouldn't be back.

Here is where your argument is falling apart. You absolutely HAVE to consider this game from the perspective of somebody not familiar with the Metroid series. You cannot assume they've played Super Metroid or any other Metroid games, and you definitely can't assume that the Metroid manga was read.

The sensible perspective is that the player only has the game in front of them, Other M, to piece things together. Samus may have PDST from her childhood encounter with Ridley. The game never makes this apparent. It's likely Samus freaked out because Ridley's appearance is like an assumed slained demon risen from the dead. All the game gives is a passing mention of Ridley's death on Zebes. Yes she hasn't freaked out from other Metroid games, but that honestly doesn't mean anything. It's Other M that decided to give her a reaction, and it's one that does not line up at all with her previous Ridley encounters.

The scene's context is all but completely lost on players unversed in Metroid's lore , and the scene creates a considerable disconnect for those who are familiar with the series. It ends up being a strange scene where the hero freaks out over a monster, has to be rescued, then quickly recovers from said freak out and defeats the monster in combat. Arcanir is correct; It's a pointless scene that adds nothing to the story (except for Anthony's "miraculous" reappearance).

I don't think you understand why Adam shot her in the first place. Adam Shot samus to prevent her from fighting a metroid that he THOUGHT was immune to cold.
"MY GUESS is that it was in a larval stage" -Adam

he shot Samus and was planning on simply stunning the metroid so he could move Samus away from there.

I'm sorry, but the scene is silly and people are right to trash it. I mean, read what you posted! Where's the sense in it? Common sense dictates strength in numbers. Facing an enemy that MAY be unbeatable, you shoot... your ALLY??? What if that Metroid WAS immune to cold? They're both dead now! The enemy wins!

Hypothetical Example: "That guy you were talking with might have been armed, so I shot you in your knee so you wouldn't get in a scuffle. Then I shot the guy. Turns out he wasn't wearing a bullet-proof vest and he wasn't armed."

The scene sacrifices common sense just to set up Adam's final "heroic" moments. Yeah maybe Adam wouldn't have been able to convince her to leave the area if she knew what he was about to get himself into, and he could have instead convinced her he needed her help and THEN shot her from behind...

.... Oh... but doesn't she trust his judgments? Why not now?

so Samus never expressed her emotions? it was all dull?
wtf please go play the game LMAO

Again, don't condescend. People can have their opinions.

YES Samus expresses emotions at certain times. Not always at opportune times that would have better developed her character and draw the player more into the story. That's the issue many people have with this game.

 

[Arcanir]

Do you not understand the simple concept that by this being an UNKNOWN ship that using abilities could endanger the environment that they are trying to investigate or the ship?

And I still don't see how that prevents her from using things like the Varia Suit, which doesn't do anything to the ship, when she's burning alive.

okay if you say you've actually played the game then that means you've forgoten the flashbacks surrounding her past?
you know the ones without action?

And none of those fleshed out their relationship on a personal level.

I'm not belittling you it just seems that you havn't played the game (and alot of people here havn't btw)

So having criticisms on the game means you haven't played it?

lol theres a difference between "mutiple creatures" from her past and Ridley.
...you know the one who killed her parents?

No there isn't, they brought back all these other creatures from her past, what reason is there for not believing Ridley may be one of them?

yes, the keyword here is thought.
because that Hypothesis was most likely true, in which case she would have been KILLED by that baby Metroid had he not shot her.

Except the game never shows it in action, the Metroid he freezes is still affected by cold temperatures and the Metroids from the Queen are still affected as well. So the game basically made him look like a liar.

And she sure as Hell was about to die with that Metroid overhead, just because of a hypothesis that may or may not've been true. Really, she was better off in the armor.

I said Adam would get her out of the way while the metroid was temporarily stunned.

And for what reason did that need to happen? The Metroid froze anyway so that's not a good reason. Disarming her hurt her badly and left her at the mercy of the Metroid, so that's not a good reason either. Why was it needed?

That monologue expressed how she was feeling at that moment...
did you miss how she expressed emotion to her former comrads? hence the thumbs down
did you miss how she expressed emotion about how she regretted leaving the federation?
did you miss how she felt during Adam's death?Adams brothers death?
RIDLEY????

why do I have explaining these things to you(a person who's played the game?) you should already know this.

-Except expository dialogue does little to flesh out the character, saying how you feel is not the same as expressing it.
-When? Adam's crew? She shown no emotion there.
-Again, expository dialogue does little to flesh out the character, especially on a personal level.
-The only time was Adam's death, hence the 'once.' Ian's? It was not pulled off well script-wise or vocally. And the less said about Ridley's scene, the better.

Because I had criticisms about the game and I don't think your points refute them, it's that simple. In fact, I'd say it's more of an excuse for the story's shortcomings rather then actually explaining them within the context of the story. If the fans have to start saving plotlines, then there's a problem.

 

[Xhampi]

You guys should go the Samus thread for that conversation or Mario_and_Sonic_guy is going to appear and tell us that this is the Ridley thread ^u^

 

[Anomilus]

You guys should go the Samus thread for that conversation or Mario_and_Sonic_guy is going to appear and tell us that this is the Ridley thread ^u^

We'll just say that the Other M story is an ugly topic, and Other M Ridley is REALLY ugly, and we're just talking about ugly things...! <_< >_>

 

[Xhampi]

We'll just say that the Other M story is an ugly topic, and Other M Ridley is REALLY ugly, and we're just talking about ugly things...! <_< >_>

But I like Other M Ridley D;

 

[IsmaR]

Here's the big ones:
-Samus' refusal to use her equipment even in life-threatening situations. There's no reason for her to de-equip things like the Grapple Beam and Varia Suit since it harms no one, and the latter is even more ridiculous since she ignores it when she's boiling alive in a lava level. Hell, even in the occasions where her weapons are needed (like the Space Pirates assaulting her in the glass cage and she refuses to use the Wave Beam), she still refuses to use them until Adam says "OK." So now she blindly obeys orders that nearly get her killed, and for a person that isn't developed enough to explain why she's so willing to put her life in danger for him.

I assume the forumula they were following was gameplay first, story second. I've stated dozens of time prior that if they "authorization" concept had a different label (I.E. - No one complains about the Scatterbeam and Seeker Missile pick-ups in the game), then there would be no complaining. At the same time, if you had to go around collecting all your powers again, it would be the same as past games, which they try to avoid in every Metroid game (Prime itself removed it completely by the 3rd title, as "___ event, lose all your powers" in the first five minutes got old fast).

Additionally, it was less of her adhering only to Adam, more to the entire Galactic Federation. Had she not followed protocol, they would've both refused her help and treat her as an obstruction to the mission. Above all of that, Samus pretty much knew if she didn't help them all, they would've all been killed, something the Ian cutscene points out she wouldn't want to go through again (yet ironically does, even for Anthony's "death").

I do agree they did a poor job of explaining it to those not already familiar with her character (from the manga and Fusion).

-The Ridley scene: Just in general, this scene is done poorly. For the past, it refuses to explain anything about why the character's freaking out and if you don't know the manga or the rest of the background material, you'll be scratching your head this whole time. It's not good storytelling to rely on other material to explain the story. Presently, it's poorly placed because even if the character has PTSD, it's not something you can turn on or off at a whim story-wise and it doesn't pop up in any of the other games so there's no consistency with that scene. Finally, even from a developmental standpoint, it falls flat. What could've happened is that Samus learns to deal with that trauma more efficiently so that she struggles but still kicks his ***. That... doesn't happen. She does chase Ridley out, but then he's unceremoniously taken out by something else, so Samus doesn't get redeemed there and misses an opportunity to develop, so the scene is just pointless because there's nothing gained by it.

As I grow tired of explaining this every freakin' time, I'll just link this.

http://aqua311.deviantart.com/art/PTSD-2-188319516

The Ridley scene suffers from the same "poor presentation" factor the rest of the game does, again I'll agree. But going off of past games that didn't go nearly as in depth on Samus' character as this one is by no means the right way to go, either. We never saw her face, she could have been freaking out under that helmet every single time. Hell, in Prime 3, she stands hesitant as Omega Ridley walks up to her and roars, as she most likely assumed he died in the earlier fight (twice) in his Meta forme, on top of their original two encounters. As the story presentation was never a big factor back then, and the obviously limited technology for games older than the first Prime, they didn't bother making her hesitant mostly because it didn't seem to matter at the time.

Opinions are obviously subjective, but the scene had numerous "points" to it. It served to advance the plot (Anthony's "death" and Adam's communication with Samus being severed, making it clear you were on your own at that point), characterize most of the main characters (mostly to make Ridley look more intimidating/not just a mindless monster, and make Anthony look more badass), and even the later death scene serves its purpose of portraying the "bigger bad" still roaming about, as well as setting the plot up for Fusion (with Ridley's state at the end of the game).

-Samus not calling out Adam for shooting her in the back: There is no good reason for this, she's obeyed every order by him so there's no reason to believe she wouldn't one more time and he doesn't even try to warn her beforehand. On top of that, he shoots her before shooting the Metroid, putting her in grave danger on the worry that it's resistant to freezing... and yet he uses a freeze gun to do it. So he not only put her down on the hypothesis that it's unfreezeable, he put her life in danger on that idea even when it could've backfired on both of them, and yet Samus doesn't even call him out for it! It comes off really badly for both since she takes a hit from him and doesn't hold anything against him for it and Adam comes off as a complete ****.

That was all a case of making the plot more dramatic. Not the smartest way to do it, but then again what was?

-The portrayal of the character: The thing is characters can have doubts, but it seems that the story took too much time to focus on those doubts and monologues without giving too much else to the character. We don't see her really develop so much as keep talking about the events and Adam, she doesn't even say "I feel this" or "I don't like this," it's always about telling us the events without much emotion. So it makes her seem a bit overly immature. Now, if the character developed from this then there may've not have been as much problem, but of course they forego that as well and she's still monologuing and the like as she was before.

It was done like that on purpose, as far as the "emotion/stoic" delivery goes. Her VA actually recorded her lines with emotion, which in turn was met by Sakamoto telling her to redo them the way they are now.

The game overall had the "show, don't tell" problem to the logical extreme, as the vid a few pages ago stated.

 

[Anomilus]

But I like Other M Ridley D;

And mothers think their newborn babies are beautiful. ^_^

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Haven't played Other M but the only thing I have criticized about it is how Ridley looks.

 

[masterluigi1]

Adam sure didn't allow Samus to use her abilities at the right time, considering she had to go through the Pyrosphere without the Varia Suit, only to have him allow the use of it halfway through. BAD TIMING.

Ok, maybe it was a little bad timing but maybe he thought samus could get there without using her varia suit while he anylizes the environment. he didn't know about the monster at first.
but that is only ONE example of bad timing.

and this plot is way better than how samus always RANDOMLY loses all of her powers in every game for no apparant reason.

And concerning Samus and Adam's relations. We never actually see them be friends of any sort, we hear how much Samus looks up to him, but whenever we see a flashback they're constantly being ignorant towards one another. The only time they have any sort of good connection between each other is right before Adam dies, up until then I sure didn't feel like they would have any respect towards each other, because while Samus spoke a lot about it, the only thing we saw was Adam ignoring Samus and holding despise against her for leaving the Federation.

The reason we didn't see any of the "being friends" is because it was completely obvious that she did respect him but she never wanted to admit it hence her naivity and lack of respect for authority.

The Ridley thing is incredibly flawed. First off, the Space Pirates weren't completely eradicated in Super Metroid, they inhabit millions of planets in the universe, while Zebes had become their main base of operations it still didn't wipe them out. Samus should in theory be a lot more shocked to see Ridley return the first time, that being in Metroid Prime, but her immediate reaction then was to get the hell out of the place. Furthermore, as soon as she saw the Space Pirate clones she should have imagined Ridley returning possible, as he had done that countless times already. There's no excuse for it, it's really just rehashed writing from the Metroid Manga, a story that Sakamoto also directed, but it was handled incredibly rushed in comparison. Btw, she actually wins over her fears of Ridley in the Metroid Manga, and that is 100% canon, so it makes no sense that it comes back by the 5th or 6th times he comes back from the dead.

it says in the game that they were ALL destroyed.
Show me where it says that there were still space pirates living afterwards otherwise why would they try to revive the them in the first place on the bottle ship.

And again, Adam could just have shot the Metroid to begin with. By shooting Samus he put her life in greater danger than if he had tried to stun it first. Even then his first reaction was to shoot it with ice, and it's never indicated in the dialog that he was trying to stun it either, so that's just an assumption on your part. The reason he shot Samus was to make some kind of tension in the story, but as a writer you don't just do that for the heck of it, there needs to be a reason behind it, which is never explained.

who cares if it wasn't indicated in the dialogue, it was implied otherwise it makes no sense.

also the Metroid is a smaller target to hit than Samus meaning his first thought was probably to save her by shooting her first.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

I don't mind the Other M Ridley appearance to be honest. I think it'd be okay for inclusion to Smash- I don't see his design being lifted completely from Other M anyway.

also... being the Metroid buff I am, I could dedicate a year long school course on the franchise and dedicate an entire semester on the mistakes (and merits) of Other M, and I wouldn't be exaggerating when I make this claim.

however-

A. this isn't the thread for that

B. we're talking about Ridley for Smash here

C. as for my two cents, my summed up view on Other M is as follows: it's a good game, it's a good attempt at creating a cinematic Metroid experience for the intended Japanese audience, but it's poorly executed and directed, resulting in basically the biggest character assassination in video game canon ever. and it's a fun but mediocre Metroid experience at best.

 

[Xhampi]

And mothers think their newborn babies are beautiful. ^_^

Now I want to know what Ridley's parents looks like.

Come on Nintendo give Ridley his own game who explains his history until the first metroid.

 

[Arcanir]

I assume the forumula they were following was gameplay first, story second. I've stated dozens of time prior that if they "authorization" concept had a different label (I.E. - No one complains about the Scatterbeam and Seeker Missile pick-ups in the game), then there would be no complaining. At the same time, if you had to go around collecting all your powers again, it would be the same as past games, which they try to avoid in every Metroid game (Prime itself removed it completely by the 3rd title, as "___ event, lose all your powers" in the first five minutes got old fast).

Regardless of gameplay, the thing is that still plays poorly on the story, which is noted to be the focus name change or otherwise. I don't care if it was called Bad*** Dragon technique, it's still a poorly explained mechanic story-wise. The character still prevents herself from using certain items, even when they would save her trouble or even her own life.

Additionally, it was less of her adhering only to Adam, more to the entire Galactic Federation. Had she not followed protocol, they would've both refused her help and treat her as an obstruction to the mission. Above all of that, Samus pretty much knew if she didn't help them all, they would've all been killed, something the Ian cutscene points out she wouldn't want to go through again (yet ironically does, even for Anthony's "death").

That's not the problem, the problem lies in risking her life without even consideration of what she has. Even in real life, soldiers have some autonomy, if they're in danger, they're allowed to do what they can. Samus does not do that, so it still doesn't make sense in any aspect.

I
The Ridley scene suffers from the same "poor presentation" factor the rest of the game does, again I'll agree. But going off of past games that didn't go nearly as in depth on Samus' character as this one is by no means the right way to go, either. We never saw her face, she could have been freaking out under that helmet every single time. Hell, in Prime 3, she stands hesitant as Omega Ridley walks up to her and roars, as she most likely assumed he died in the earlier fight (twice) in his Meta forme, on top of their original two encounters. As the story presentation was never a big factor back then, and the obviously limited technology for games older than the first Prime, they didn't bother making her hesitant mostly because it didn't seem to matter at the time.

If you have to recon previous events to fit a story into the canon, then there's a huge problem. We should not have to reinterpret previous scenes that could be taken in any other manner as one of something else, particularly if it doesn't fit it in the first place (what does Samus do when Omega Ridley walks up to her and tries to bite? Gets out of the way without much a quiver). It's not up to us to explain this, it's up to the writer and the fact of the matter is, it's not explained previously at all.

Also, Zero Mission had cutscenes and it's not like Sakamoto couldn't have told Retro what he was thinking and put in a more clear moment of weakness into the Prime games. I'm not reconning previous events just to save a story that clearly only care about its own canon.

Opinions are obviously subjective, but the scene had numerous "points" to it. It served to advance the plot (Anthony's "death" and Adam's communication with Samus being severed, making it clear you were on your own at that point), characterize most of the main characters (mostly to make Ridley look more intimidating/not just a mindless monster, and make Anthony look more badass), and even the later death scene serves its purpose of portraying the "bigger bad" still roaming about, as well as setting the plot up for Fusion (with Ridley's state at the end of the game).

Both of those could've easily been done better regardless of Ridley. It's a setup to make the character look weak so she has to be saved and that's it, no explanation for why it happens or development for any characters in handling the problem. Samus doesn't learn from the freakout, Adam doesn't explain what happened and Anthony lives, that's it.

Also, the Deleter storyline was poorly handled and even in the context of the scene it's not helped.

That was all a case of making the plot more dramatic. Not the smartest way to do it, but then again what was?

It makes the plot look ridiculous due to how they do it, and it makes Adam look like an ***. If he followed what Anomilus said and shot her after she refused him, then it's understandable, here it is not, period.

It was done like that on purpose, as far as the "emotion/stoic" delivery goes. Her VA actually recorded her lines with emotion, which in turn was met by Sakamoto telling her to redo them the way they are now.

The game overall had the "show, don't tell" problem to the logical extreme, as the vid a few pages ago stated.

I know, that doesn't make me feel any better about the game.

And that is a major problem, I agree.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

Ok, maybe it was a little bad timing but maybe he thought samus could get there without using her varia suit while he anylizes the environment. he didn't know about the monster at first.
but that is only ONE example of bad timing.

and this plot is way better than how samus always RANDOMLY loses all of her powers in every game for no apparant reason.
The reason we didn't see any of the "being friends" is because it was completely obvious that she did respect him but she never wanted to admit it hence her naivity and lack of respect for authority.
it says in the game that they were ALL destroyed.
Show me where it says that there were still space pirates living afterwards otherwise why would they try to revive the them in the first place on the bottle ship.
who cares if it wasn't indicated in the dialogue, it was implied otherwise it makes no sense.

also the Metroid is a smaller target to hit than Samus meaning his first thought was probably to save her by shooting her first.

okay, here I'll bite.

-Adam is dumb if he thinks that Samus isn't going to need a heat protection device in an environment that would kill her without it. don't make excuses for the game that the developers have already made for you.

-if her respect for Adam was so obvious she wouldn't have left the Federation in the first place. this is also contradictory by your own words. if she didn't respect authority then why is she taking his commands now? she literally has no reason to.

-in Metroid: Fusion, Space Pirates appear. they snuck onto the Biological Space Laboratory and were infected by X Parasites. if, as you so claim, anyone playing Other M should be familiar with all Metroid canon, you'd know this.

-that's still really dumb reasoning. Adam doesn't even clearly explain himself as to why he shot Samus and then the Metroid. if I was Adam, the smart thing to do would've been to verbally call Samus's attention, then explain the situation as they flee. then Samus probably would've attempted to kill the Metroid, or bait it somewhere where it could be trapped.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Other M.

Lets clone the most dangerous alien in our universe. Lets create a mother brain like entity to take care of the aliens. Lets cure the alien's weakness. Lets put them in tanks with the thinnest glass in the universe. Lets create a queen to give birth to more of said aliens.

 

[masterluigi1]

And I still don't see how that prevents her from using things like the Varia Suit, which doesn't do anything to the ship, when she's burning alive.

when she was burning was ONE example of when adam had bad judgement.

And none of those fleshed out their relationship on a personal level.

yes they did lol

So having criticisms on the game means you haven't played it?

no, but saying wrong things could mean that

No there isn't, they brought back all these other creatures from her past, what reason is there for not believing Ridley may be one of them?

because these creatures had no knowledge who the old ridley was.

Except the game never shows it in action, the Metroid he freezes is still affected by cold temperatures and the Metroids from the Queen are still affected as well. So the game basically made him look like a liar.

And she sure as Hell was about to die with that Metroid overhead, just because of a hypothesis that may or may not've been true. Really, she was better off in the armor.

yea but LIKE I SAID: he THOUGHT that it wouldn't be affected thats why he shot her and tried to stun the metroid.

And for what reason did that need to happen? The Metroid froze anyway so that's not a good reason. Disarming her hurt her badly and left her at the mercy of the Metroid, so that's not a good reason either. Why was it needed?

read and UNDERSTAND my response please...ill repeat it again for you

Adam THOUGHT the metroid was immune to cold so his intent was to stop Samus from dyimg from an unbeatable metroid by stunning her AND the metroid and then move Samus to safety. was I not clear with my response?

-Except expository dialogue does little to flesh out the character, saying how you feel is not the same as expressing it.
-When? Adam's crew? She shown no emotion there.
-Again, expository dialogue does little to flesh out the character, especially on a personal level.
-The only time was Adam's death, hence the 'once.' Ian's? It was not pulled off well script-wise or vocally. And the less said about Ridley's scene, the better.

it wasn't just expository diologue if you remember her flashback from when she was younger.

Because I had criticisms about the game and I don't think your points refute them, it's that simple. In fact, I'd say it's more of an excuse for the story's shortcomings rather then actually explaining them within the context of the story. If the fans have to start saving plotlines, then there's a problem.

I haven't said one excuse.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Lets clone the most dangerous alien in our universe. Lets create a mother brain like entity to take care of the aliens. Lets cure the alien's weakness. Lets put them in tanks with the thinnest glass in the universe. Lets create a queen to give birth to more of said aliens.