Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Deleted member]

Well John, apperantly not. Cause Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and MegaMan are apperantly 'fun'.

Also, I don't think R.O.B.'s inclusion ruined anything in Brawl. Lucario's gimmick was bad yeah, but still.

You also seem to underestimate the problems Ridley could face. Especially in balancing the character. Great power, great speed, great range, great recovery. Broken as Mega Metal MetaKnight. ... Almost.

I'm not seeing it happen. Sakurai and team clearly cannot handle a project as a playable Ridley yet.

And yet Sakurai made Mega Man playable, who is according to Sakurai, harder to fit in than the game itself.

 

[BKupa666]

The difference is the Wii Fit Trainer looks amazing (I'm talking about playing the character, not a popularity contest). She's totally unique, and totally has awesome qualities. To me, that's pretty much all that matters. Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay. I don't care about popularity contests, give me the best characters in regards to gameplay.

Wii Fit Trainer may not be the best example. Let's say Ridley becomes a stage hazard, Sakurai is asked about it again in an interview, and responds with something like "We tried, but Ridley just doesn't mesh with the gameplay." Is there any doubt that every w**ker with a keyboard would preach this as objective truth and his exclusion as the right decision, just because Sakurai said so?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Maybe Sakurai's well is too small for Ridley to fit through.

"Lassie, what is it girl?"
"*bark*"
"Ridley fell down the well!?"
"*bark woof*"
"...Wait, he's stuck in the well?"
"*woof*"

 

[Diddy Kong]

MegaMan had popularity in both the US and Japan though. Only Europe doesn't care about him much (which is why I was always meh about him). Meanwhile Ridley is only hyped in the US. Europe and Japan? Not so much. Europe more than Japan though cause of the language bridge being far less, but it's still mainly a character only popular in one region. And mostly... Only on the internet.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What is with Europe not liking good characters?

Mega Man, Ridley, Geno

Who the heck do they even like?

 

[?????????????]

What is with Europe not liking good characters?

Mega Man, Ridley, Geno

Who the heck do they even like?

Professor Layton.

 

[Kamiko]

Wii Fit Trainer may not be the best example. Let's say Ridley becomes a stage hazard, Sakurai is asked about it again in an interview, and responds with something like "We tried, but Ridley just doesn't mesh with the gameplay." Is there any doubt that every w**ker with a keyboard would preach this as objective truth and his exclusion as the right decision, just because Sakurai said so?

OBVIOUSLY, Sakurai is a god, his opinion facts mean everything, and he can never make mistakes or suffer from mortal problems like overstraining his hand.

Obviously.

 

[?????????????]

I really don't care about character "popularity" one bit. I think Ridley, on his own, is a significant Nintendo character. Here's a character who has been around since NES days and has continued to consistently have an important role in Nintendo games.

Ok, then Ridley will be sucky. Facts remains that Sakurai probably thinks Wii Fit Trainer is more fitting than Ridley. And can you blame him? She's boring, but at least human thus easier to work with than purple space dragons.

Since when has whether a character is human or not made a difference? Are we being racist now? Nothing in the Kirby series is human, and there's Pokemon too.

 

[jaytalks]

I really don't care about character "popularity" one bit. I think Ridley, on his own, is a significant Nintendo character. Here's a character who has been around since NES days and has continued to consistently have an important role in Nintendo games.



Since when has whether a character is human or not made a difference? Are we being racist now? Nothing in the Kirby series is human, and there's Pokemon too.

technically that would be speciesist. But I would agree with you. Nintendo is built on non-human characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mewtwo and Lucario have humanoid shapes, that greatly helped them. Sheik was also probably added for being human and easy to create a bland moveset for. Same with Zero Suit Samus, and Captain Falcon. It plays a greater part than most imagine.

 

[?????????????]

Mewtwo and Lucario have humanoid shapes, that greatly helped them. Sheik was also probably added for being human and easy to create a bland moveset for. Same with Zero Suit Samus, and Captain Falcon. It plays a greater part than most imagine.

First: Ivysaur
Second: Official Artwork of Ridley

Bing Bada Boom.

 

[Deleted member]

@Diddy
......that's probably one of the dumbest things I have heard.

 

[Kamiko]

Sooooo..... are you implying it would be hard to make a moveset for Ridley?

Edit: To Diddy, not those two guys up there.

 

[jaytalks]

Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong (duh), Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, Charizard, Ivysaur, Kirby, Pichu, R.O.B. would all like to have a word with you. Ivysaur doesn't even have hands! Ridley is way more humanoid than some of these characters. Have you ever fought Ridley?

You can doubt Ridley on any other basis. This one is pretty weak, and this is coming from a fellow doubter.

And what do you have against Sheik? Sheik is Zelda!

 

[Deleted member]

Essentially, Ridley is just (body-wise) a Charizard with longer legs.

....yeah, being "non-human" is a **** argument.

And what do you have against Sheik? Sheik is Zelda!

Don't even start....
....just.....don't.

You'll never hear the end of the pro-Impa anti-Sheik propaganda.

 

[Deleted member]

MegaMan had popularity in both the US and Japan though. Only Europe doesn't care about him much (which is why I was always meh about him). Meanwhile Ridley is only hyped in the US. Europe and Japan? Not so much. Europe more than Japan though cause of the language bridge being far less, but it's still mainly a character only popular in one region. And mostly... Only on the internet.

The point is, how can Ridley be a harder addition than a third-party (specifically Mega Man)? If Sakurai isn't able to handle a playable Ridley yet, then there's no way he would be able to handle a third-party either. So if Ridley does get excluded, it won't be because Ridley can't work, but because Sakurai failed to envisioned a playable Ridley.

Also it's better to just lump in Europe and North America together anyway as there isn't too much of a difference between them. It's only when comparing the West and Japan where there's significant differences in what people want.

 

[Kamiko]

The bleachers are starting to fill up again.

 

[jaytalks]

Don't even start....
....just.....don't.

You'll never hear the end of the pro-Impa anti-Sheik propaganda.

My bad. It just didn't even make sense in the context of his argument. I know his pro-Impa stuff. Diddy brings it everywhere. Actually, scratch that. None of your argument makes any sense Diddy.

 

[Curious Villager]

What is with Europe not liking good characters?

Mega Man, Ridley, Geno

Who the heck do they even like?

Actually Europe does like those characters too (Except Geno since Super Mario RPG never made it to Europe until the Virtual Console release many years later) Its just that.... Their opinions aren't heard as much. But for the most part from what I've seen their tastes are pretty similar to America's anyway. Not exactly similar but they do agree on a few things in terms of characters.

Professor Layton.

I know you meant that in a trollish way but yeah. Layton is indeed far more popular in Europe than he is America and he's even more popular in Japan too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You can't just expect that the whole world agrees on which characters should be included. Europe shouldn't really be lumped with the US, much like how other Asian countries shouldn't be lumped with Japan. Am actually quite curious on what characters China would want for example...

Ridley is a harder addition cause his bodyshape and properties. Heck, MegaMan's moveset itself fits fine into Smash. You can't really say the same about Ridley.

Yes, Super Mario RPG never got to Euopean shores. MegaMan wasn't very popular around here either on the NES days. And Ridley... Well, let's just say us Europeans are a lot more humble, and didn't jump into conclusion as soon as the Americans with the Melee trailer.

 

[?????????????]

Ridley is a harder addition cause his bodyshape and properties. Heck, MegaMan's moveset itself fits fine into Smash. You can't really say the same about Ridley.

I CAN say the same about Ridley, and I DO. Bodyshape means nothing. It's aesthetic. It's how the character looks, and has no bearing and how they would work or fight. Moveset? Yes. Very much so. Especially Other M's Ridley, which mainly fights with ground-based melee claw combos, as well as ground-based tail attacks, in conjunction with special attacks that make use of his tail and fire. Ground-based melee attacks? Special moves? Sounds like SSB to me!

 

[BluePikmin11]

The only moves I can think for Ridley is generic pterodactyl-dragon attacks.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yes, Super Mario RPG never got to Euopean shores. MegaMan wasn't very popular around here either on the NES days. And Ridley... Well, let's just say us Europeans are a lot more humble, and didn't jump into conclusion as soon as the Americans with the Melee trailer.

Oh really? I thought they generally liked Ridley and Megaman too. Guess I'm wrong then. :/ But I do agree with you Diddy, everyone has different opinions really on which characters they like and which they don't.

 

[?????????????]

Well, let's just say us Europeans are a lot more humble, and didn't jump into conclusion as soon as the Americans with the Melee trailer.

So...your stereotyping Europeans as more humble than Americans? The racism continues.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Other M Ridley indeed works the best. Always said that.

Bodyshape definitely isn't aesthetic alone though. By far not. Bodyshape got Captain Falcon in. It got Ganondorf in. Probably Sheik and Zero Suit Samus to. Mewtwo and Lucario beingg bipedal and being able to punch and kick also helped them (outside of popularity).

Balance is a thing that hurts Ridley. 'That would be pretty impossible', 'He might be a bit slow, would that be alright? [laughs]'.

I have had my doubts for months. Being led by blind optimism will not do anything good. Dissapointment will kick in harder. Hence I only really expect Mewtwo and Dixie Kong at this point.

But still, it'll be fun seeing you all complain about not buying the game I guess?

Lol racism. Just cause I feel Americans are more outspoken than Europeans and I think humanoid bodied characters are more fitting than Ridley in a fighting game? Cool logic bro.

 

[Xhampi]

As a French I can say that i've seen lots of support for Megaman both before and after the trailer and a 50/50 situation for Ridley to this day even if the support did go a little down after the pyrosphere update

 

[Kamiko]

Body shape ONLY got Ganondorf in, because no new animations had to made for him. That's it. No one else. It wasn't because he was humanoid, but because he matched an existing playable character.

 

[?????????????]

Other M Ridley indeed works the best. Always said that.

Bodyshape definitely isn't aesthetic alone though. By far not. Bodyshape got Captain Falcon in. It got Ganondorf in. Probably Sheik and Zero Suit Samus to. Mewtwo and Lucario beingg bipedal and being able to punch and kick also helped them (outside of popularity).

Balance is a thing that hurts Ridley. 'That would be pretty impossible', 'He might be a bit slow, would that be alright? [laughs]'.

I have had my doubts for months. Being led by blind optimism will not do anything good. Dissapointment will kick in harder. Hence I only really expect Mewtwo and Dixie Kong at this point.

But still, it'll be fun seeing you all complain about not buying the game I guess?

Lol racism. Just cause I feel Americans are more outspoken than Europeans and I think humanoid bodied characters are more fitting than Ridley in a fighting game? Cool logic bro.

Lol is it not discrimination based on how someone looks?

If someone had a good reason against Ridley other than "the way he looks," then sure. But he IS an important Nintendo character, and he DOES work moveset-wise. This is a character that should not have any controversy.

Balance? Are you telling me that, realistically, Ganondorf is balanced? With the power he's displayed in Zelda games, no one should be that much of a challenge. What about Mewtwo? Are you seriously telling me that Jigglypuff should be able to evenly take him in a 1 on 1? All the boss-based characters are significantly powered-down. Balance is part of the game mechanic.

 

[jaytalks]

Bodyshape definitely isn't aesthetic alone though. By far not. Bodyshape got Captain Falcon in. It got Ganondorf in. Probably Sheik and Zero Suit Samus to. Mewtwo and Lucario beingg bipedal and being able to punch and kick also helped them (outside of popularity).

Bodyshape got Ganondorf in, but he would have been in brawl anyway. Sheik and ZSS have completely different bodytypes than everyone else. Same with Lucario and Mewtwo. There is no ease in development derived from simply being humanoid. They all have different models. You do know how models are designed and programmed right? They have to custom design every single one.

I have had my doubts for months. Being led by blind optimism will not do anything good. Dissapointment will kick in harder. Hence I only really expect Mewtwo and Dixie Kong at this point.

But still, it'll be fun seeing you all complain about not buying the game I guess?

I have been a doubter forever. But there is no reason to brag. We are all gamers just trying to a fun discussion. What kind of person thinks like this?

Wheaton's Law man.

 

[?????????????]

This is where I get back to my "Ridley is the magical exception" rule. People say he would be overpowered, but ignore Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo, who realistically would be overpowered as well. They say his bodyshape would be strange, but ignore the already existing Ivysaur. They say his moveset would be bland, but forget about the generic movesets of Sheik and Marth (Ridley's, by itself, would already be more diverse).

Yet, when it comes to RIDLEY, all of these things are suddenly a problem for no reason.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Not caring too much about the subject now, but I guess we'll see how right Diddy is about body shapes mattering if/when we get generic black space marine over awesome space dragon who has an infinitely longer history with Samus in said series.

@ Golden: How dare you ruin my patriotism!
j/k That was good... Well played.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No I'm not saying Mewtwo and Ganondorf at canon-power wouldn't be overpowered. Cause they'd be. It's just that Sakurai found ways to give them a weakness as a character. Ganondorf is slow. Mewtwo is floaty. Heck, Mewtwo doesn't help your arguement either. Cause it's clear they nerfed Mewtwo too much as to not make him overpowered. Could be a reason that Mewtwo was absent from Brawl to. Why? Cause they failed, and made him suck.

I'm thinking that Ridley would probably end up quite a lot like Melee Mewtwo. That is, if he'd got in. Am talking about gameplay balance mostly anyway.

If you're already relying on a magical exception rule for Ridley though... I must say that's quite deluded. I don't see how Sakurai would think of that way to. He has his own ideas on who he wants to add. That's why we got Peach and Zelda before Diddy, Wario and MetaKnight for example. He just does what he wants.

Only Sonic got in cause of mass popularity in Brawl. Most of the other characters in Brawl where quite logical inclusions. Outside of R.O.B., who's retro anyway. All had significant following, and that's worldwide. And that's the thing many Ridley fans fail to see: him not being a worldwide popular thing. Perse.

This is what you get when you only talk with like-minded people about an idea. You all agree with each other, and whoever disagrees is stomped on. It's limitting your vision. But yeah, you'll see the consuquences yourself soon, I'm sure.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Oh really? I thought they generally liked Ridley and Megaman too. Guess I'm wrong then. :/ But I do agree with you Diddy, everyone has different opinions really on which characters they like and which they don't.

We Europeans in general love Dragons, and with that comes Ridley too. It's also rare that I meet someone who's favorite Pokémon isn't Charizard.

 

[Morbi]

We Europeans in general love Dragons, and with that comes Ridley too. It's also rare that I meet someone who's favorite Pokémon isn't Charizard.

My favorite Pokemon is Gengar, my second is Alakazam, my third is Golbat. Just throwing that out there.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

My favorite Pokemon is Gengar, my second is Alakazam, my third is Golbat. Just throwing that out there.

Then consider yourself rare.

Heck, my favorite is Venusaur. Might be a bit exaggerated, but the majority of Pokéfans I meet irl love Charizard the most.

 

[Curious Villager]

We Europeans in general love Dragons, and with that comes Ridley too. It's also rare that I meet someone who's favorite Pokémon isn't Charizard.

Yeah Charizard is definitely a big fan favourite and I'm pretty sure Ridley is very popular here in Europe too.

By the way, I've decided to finally give the Metroid franchise a full spin since I usually never played them for more than 10-15 minutes. I guess you guys kinda lead me to (properly) try the series out. Sorry for going a little off topic here... :x

 

[Diddy Kong]

Start with Zero Mission. That game is awesome.

 

[Kamiko]

By the way, I've decided to finally give the Metroid franchise a full spin since I usually never played them for more than 10-15 minutes. I guess you guys kinda lead me to (properly) try the series out. Sorry for that off topic sentence just felt like saying it just to give the thread a little change.... :x

Make sure you don't forget about Metroid II.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah Charizard is definitely a big fan favourite and I'm pretty sure Ridley is very popular here in Europe too.

By the way, I've decided to finally give the Metroid franchise a full spin since I usually never played them for more than 10-15 minutes. I guess you guys kinda lead me to (properly) try the series out. Sorry for that off topic sentence just felt like saying it just to give the thread a little change.... :x

To be honest, I never really got into Metroid myself. I watched a play through of the Other M. I played Metroid Prime 3 in my entirety. I didn't really give the game a fair shake, but it just felt like a Halo knock-off to me. I am sure there are better Metroid games out there. They just aren't for me. If I am going to play a shooter, I would rather play Call of Duty or Battlefield.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh wow.

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