Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[DraginHikari]

Ridley is kind of an interesting subject in that regards. Back during Brawl my opinion prior to him being annouced as a boss was actually less to do with his size and more with his shape, though there have been slight variations of him, his shape was always this kind of long kind of skinny body. My arugement back then was that mostly his body was unusual enough that it might be difficult to program hitboxes and such for a larger character with such a strange frame compared to humanoid characters with fairly straight forward hitboxes and frames.

Admittively I've learned quite a bit about the reality of game programming since Brawl's release and I no longer have this opinion. I do understand it is quite possible to make this work and it's been shown in a number of ways on how it could possible in this thread alone. As with Brawl it is more about how much effort they can put into a character. Someone like Ridley is harder to implement, that is pretty realistic to say, can they? I'm pretty sure they can. Just waiting to see how this plays out.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

View attachment 1774

Man, the image even made him smaller by chopping off his eye horns. It's obviously an outrageous idea to begin with.

 

[XenothiumX]

I love Ridley and I think he's an Awesome character! I hope he makes it in to Smash because Samus is kind of lonely.

 

[Dark Phazon]

If Ridley gets announced i will change my pic to him.

Thats right Cowboy MP2 Shy Guy will get ''Cut..'' & Trust...thats Alot.

 

[Oasis_S]

Someone like Ridley is harder to implement, that is pretty realistic to say, can they? I'm pretty sure they can. Just waiting to see how this plays out.

I would say so, but not that he would be any harder to implement than other characters already present in Smash. He's really not that special.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I would say so, but not that he would be any harder to implement than other characters already present in Smash. He's really not that special.

I think PeePz beg to differ.....

 

[Phaazoid]

Being a game developer in nintendo, I have to say OasiS, you are incorrect, We only put Ridley in metroid games because he is so hard to implement. That's why he isn't in all of our games. Nintendoland only got a puppet for that reason.

 

[IsmaR]

I have no idea what the topic at hand is, but I found this after rummaging through my old stuff.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I kinda understand that picture but at the same time I don't.

 

[DraginHikari]

I would say so, but not that he would be any harder to implement than other characters already present in Smash. He's really not that special.

I only say harder because he's not framed in a standard humanoid shape to him and in most variation of his design the wings and tail are long enough or a least stretched out enough in the proportion of his actual shape compare to say bowser's tail or pit's wings that don't drastically change hit boxes or actual range of his shape. So it's probably slightly more difficult to do someone like Ridley then compared to someone like say Mario or Link, how much more so, I don't really have enough experience in programming or modeling to say. Fundamentally it's going to be at least a fraction more difficult, whether it means anything or not to professional game designers is different story.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Though a completely different type of fighting game, if Namco's guys got Ogre's big butt working his bat wings and multiple snakes for an arm I bet they could figure out Ridley. He certainly has more human proportions but every time I see him I think of Ridley.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u-88Ly-J_yY

 

[ToothiestAura]

I only say harder because he's not framed in a standard humanoid shape to him and in most variation of his design the wings and tail are long enough or a least stretched out enough in the proportion of his actual shape compare to say bowser's tail or pit's wings that don't drastically change hit boxes or actual range of his shape. So it's probably slightly more difficult to do someone like Ridley then compared to someone like say Mario or Link, how much more so, I don't really have enough experience in programming or modeling to say. Fundamentally it's going to be at least a fraction more difficult, whether it means anything or not to professional game designers is different story.

Pretty sure it would be the same amount of difficulty to create hitboxes for him. What you are actually trying to say is that he would be extremely easy to hit due to his large wingspan and long tail.
I don't know how it goes for Ridley, but generally when a bird's wings aren't in use they are tucked close to its body - it's not as if his wings would be spread eagle the whole time.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Though a completely different type of fighting game, if Namco's guys got Ogre's big butt working his bat wings and multiple snakes for an arm I bet they could figure out Ridley. He certainly has more human proportions but every time I see him I think of Ridley.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u-88Ly-J_yY

Every play any of the gundam fighting games?

Talk about too big of characters

Some characters are tiny, while some are at least 3 times as big as the typical gundam

 

[Oasis_S]

I only say harder because he's not framed in a standard humanoid shape to him and in most variation of his design the wings and tail are long enough or a least stretched out enough in the proportion of his actual shape compare to say bowser's tail or pit's wings that don't drastically change hit boxes or actual range of his shape. So it's probably slightly more difficult to do someone like Ridley then compared to someone like say Mario or Link, how much more so, I don't really have enough experience in programming or modeling to say. Fundamentally it's going to be at least a fraction more difficult, whether it means anything or not to professional game designers is different story.

Try comparing him to Pokemon Trainer or Snake instead. He's not as simple as Mario and Link, but he's probably more simple than a 4-character-in-one guy, with two of those having non-standard frames (Charizard with essentially the same frame as Ridley). Snake was the first third-party character, and the nature of his series would have required a lot of thought on how to best implement him into Smash, and the result was a fighter unlike any other in the series. That's what I mean by there are characters already present in the roster that would have required more effort than Ridley.

He's not that special. The issues so many people worry about are probably things an experienced developer would hardly even notice. You can say it might require some thought on how to get his hurtboxes right, or balance out his abilities, some of that technical whatever, but that's ignoring that that is a process which literally ever character goes through too. Why Ridley's case gets singled out specifically, the world may never know.

Come to think of it really, there were other characters in the pre-Brawl days that had their own "too-whatever" detractors. Olimar had people saying he'd be too small, hilariously enough as that is now. People would cry about Sonic being too fast, how being so fast is integral to his character and they wouldn't be able to do him justice, even that he doesn't have enough moves to fight with. Look how much those didn't matter at all. The whole too big thing is just idiotic baggage at this point from much dumber times.

 

[Phaazoid]

I have no idea what the topic at hand is, but I found this after rummaging through my old stuff.

heh, the original image is from futurama, that's the space pope (who happens to be a lizard)

"We gather here today before one God, or more, or fewer"

funny guy. Doesn't appear often. More of a gag character.

 

[Anomilus]

Regarding making Ridley... I think the only thing that may make him harder is that his shape may simply require more collision here and there in order to properly cover his body depending on his stances. More collision boxes means more information per frame to work with, but I'm quite sure that's all there is. It'll take longer, but it's not some insurmountable task.

 

[Mypantisgone]

It's not like his tail or wings have to get a hurtbox,it'd be like giving one to Peach's hair.

Plus,we're getting 2D hitboxes,so the wings could be more in the foreground and background at the same time,wouldn't make sense if you could hit them.
The tail doesn't seem like something you can hurt Ridley with.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Like I've said, the wings and tail are no problem, just look at Charizard.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I completly agree with Oasis...it maybe hard to grasp than the usual chars...mac/palutena but if you think about it there are already chars in smash that you could imagine took a good ammount of time to create. But only Sakurai knows who or why exactly but its abit bait...

Also by no means is it impossible...with enough time they can make anyone in nintendo work anyone at all.

I mean they were PeePz a while back making movesets for Sandbag and a frigging paper clip or some s_it like that....

So would you say Kraid would be easier to program than Ridley because of his more simple frame...despite being..errr i dunno...TOO BiG...(-_-)

 

[DraginHikari]

Of course those are all fair points, and I was in no way suggesting it would be too difficult for the developers. Mostly just gave my prespective and my points in regards to the character itself. All I really said is that there are some difference between Ridley and some other characters that in the case of a lazier developer might employ in certain cases. Also I'm not really arguing against Ridley's inclusion, I would definitely welcome it, I just think it's more interesting to point out issues you may have with a character as much as you like a character. Makes for more interesting discussion and you've brought up fair enough points. I'm not aruging size more so then body propertion, the Olimar arguement is kind of a silly one and even I always thought that, Nintendo is not particularly consistent on their character sizes and it's a folly point. I do at least agree on the Charizard comparisment in regards to it being the closest to Ridley but with some minor physical differences that could still make it slightly more difficult but not by much.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In an attempt to save Ridley's dignity, again...

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[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

In an attempt to save Ridley's dignity, again...

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Good job but that's the wrong bowser he stands now so Ridley can be ever so slight taller now

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Good job but that's the wrong bowser he stands now so Ridley can be ever so slight taller now

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has ever released any animation hacks for Bowser to make him stand like in his Smash Wii U appearance. Due to that, the t-pose image revision that I did before pretty much has to do for now.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In an attempt to save Ridley's dignity, again...

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That size looks a little weird, make Ridley a little bigger.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That size looks a little weird, make Ridley a little bigger.

I resized Ridley's Brawl model to 0.4x its original size, which seemed good enough when doing the t-pose comparisons.

Spoiler

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe it's his neck, he looks big when his neck is extended.

 

[DraginHikari]

It's definitely part of it. Really skinny rather narrow body, skinny neck, diamond shaped head, a strangely long tail and rather large wings.

He's definitely one of the most unusual shaped dragon-like creatures out there.

 

[Dark Phazon]

In an attempt to save Ridley's dignity, again...

Spoiler

You see that looks ok at best and your damn well sure Sakurai would make it look alot better.

Make him a tad bit bigger,shorten the wings abit / The heads needs abit of work.

Zero Mission Ridley is what im leaning towards slightly. Its all Good !

 

[DraginHikari]

I'd kind of laugh if they used the NES version of Ridley that doesn't look anything like the modern variation.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I'd kind of laugh if they used the NES version of Ridley that doesn't look anything like the modern variation.

Ridley or no one...

I rather no new metroid rep than Anthony or Young Samus or Little Birdie...

Would you rather be let down by a someone
Or let down and kicked in the balls?

Replace ''Someone'' With ''Women''

EDIT: RealTalk

Awsome pic i found you lot gone love it

Villians Rule RealTalk

Ridley hit 400 Votes (he still ahead of K.Rool)

Its pretty dope *small celebration*

 

[Angelglory]

Alright, so I was thinking... What if Ridley took over the 'hunched stance' mantel from Bowser...? Then he could be big while appearing small. Another thing I thought was "Why is it bad that Ridley's big? Is there a law stating that no playable character can be bigger than Bowser in Smash Bros.? Ridley may be bigger, but he's a lot skinner too." So I shrunk Brawl Ridley down to only half size and got this here. Whaddayou guys think?

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[Groose]

Alright, so I was thinking... What if Ridley took over the 'hunched stance' mantel from Bowser...? Then he could be big while appearing small. Another thing I thought was "Why is it bad that Ridley's big? Is there a law stating that no playable character can be bigger than Bowser in Smash Bros.? Ridley may be bigger, but he's a lot skinner too." So I shrunk Brawl Ridley down to only half size and got this here. Whaddayou guys think?

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I always liked the idea of Ridley fighting on all fours. The difficult part of that, if I remember correctly, was his aerials.

 

[BKupa666]

Hey, Angelglory, what do you think about Shokio ripping off your Metroid size comparison for his video's thumbnail?

 

[_R@bid_]

Alright, so I was thinking... What if Ridley took over the 'hunched stance' mantel from Bowser...? Then he could be big while appearing small. Another thing I thought was "Why is it bad that Ridley's big? Is there a law stating that no playable character can be bigger than Bowser in Smash Bros.? Ridley may be bigger, but he's a lot skinner too." So I shrunk Brawl Ridley down to only half size and got this here. Whaddayou guys think?

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Very slightly larger wings, with his rear end lifted a little higher and his back at a little bit lower of an angle, would be perfect. A size increase would be cool too, though it might screw with other animations where he's less compact ( in the air, dashing, etc). Oh, and maybe the arms reposed so he looks less like he's gonna hug you lol. Still the best one I've seen so far.

 

[DraginHikari]

The hunched over look doesn't look too bad on Ridley compare to when they had Bowser hunched over. Ridley has always been a bit more feral of a being in behavior and probably suits him.

 

[Anomilus]

Alright, so I was thinking... What if Ridley took over the 'hunched stance' mantel from Bowser...? Then he could be big while appearing small. Another thing I thought was "Why is it bad that Ridley's big? Is there a law stating that no playable character can be bigger than Bowser in Smash Bros.? Ridley may be bigger, but he's a lot skinner too." So I shrunk Brawl Ridley down to only half size and got this here. Whaddayou guys think?

Nice job on the Bowser re-stance as well as actually adjusting Ridley's wings properly. Heck, nice job in general. Wish I had the tools and time to present a 3D rendition of my vision of Ridley.

...But I don't...... BUT YOU DO! O_O

...if ... If I was to draw some more comparison pics Angelglory, could you be so kind as to position those models as close to the drawings as possible? What I'd do is draw them with the player's perspective in mind (obviously), and you do the rest?

Also, I pretty sure the Ridley model is quite flexible, but do you think you're up to making him be on all fours in a slightly different manner?


I like that Mario_and_Sonic_Guy put Ridley in an all-fours pose in this pic...

In an attempt to save Ridley's dignity, again...

Though I'd still have it a bit bigger and Ridley facing more directly toward Bowser. And the wings...


I'll be honest... The efforts are nice, but it seems like there's some difficulty hitting the sweetspot. Seems like there's some hesitance and/or difficulty pushing the limits of Ridley's size while also maintain as flexible a fighting stance as possible. Which is why I think posing the Ridley model based off of somebody else's idea might push past it. Then if anything, if some people disagree or think "too big!" or "too awkward", you can blame me!

So would you be willing to give that a shot??? PUH-LEEEEZE????(?)

 

[IsmaR]

Alright, so I was thinking... What if Ridley took over the 'hunched stance' mantel from Bowser...? Then he could be big while appearing small. Another thing I thought was "Why is it bad that Ridley's big? Is there a law stating that no playable character can be bigger than Bowser in Smash Bros.? Ridley may be bigger, but he's a lot skinner too." So I shrunk Brawl Ridley down to only half size and got this here. Whaddayou guys think?

This is like my 2nd or 3rd time quoting myself on this, buuuuuuuuuuuut.

I distinctly remember this was one of my earlier posts in this thread.

Bowser's posture update actually made me somewhat hopeful. They more than likely made him less hunched to differentiate him from a certain other reptile. Or other reptile(s).

Not that I think other characters have to conform just to include Ridley. Since then, I've adopted the belief he'll use the mix of being-quadrupedal/standing half the time, and maybe even floating during his running animation.Whatever works, really.

I like the idea that Ridley's wings essentially = Bowser's Shell, both when idle and attacking (think his B-air). IIRC, he looked pretty good with them folded up akin to a "shell" in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, along with his bi/quadruped hybrid stance.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

In an attempt to save Ridley's dignity, again...

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I personally think this size is perfect and it's how I imagined him pre-Brawl. The tail would need to be shortened some, and the wings would need to be made slightly smaller, but that's just nitpicky.

Alright, so I was thinking... What if Ridley took over the 'hunched stance' mantel from Bowser...? Then he could be big while appearing small. Another thing I thought was "Why is it bad that Ridley's big? Is there a law stating that no playable character can be bigger than Bowser in Smash Bros.? Ridley may be bigger, but he's a lot skinner too." So I shrunk Brawl Ridley down to only half size and got this here. Whaddayou guys think?

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Ridley isn't really hunched over here, it looks a lot more like he's ducking or something. His legs should be standing more upright, his back should tilt more, and his neck should fold itself together more to not make him as long, doesn't matter if his head has to tilt a bit, speaking of the head it'd probably need to be a little bit smaller. He really doesn't need to be this short either. I also have a hard time imagining him walking with this stance, let alone take off the ground.

 

[Angelglory]

Hey, Angelglory, what do you think about Shokio ripping off your Metroid size comparison for his video's thumbnail?

He wouldn't be the first person to snatch it offa Google image search

... If I was to draw some more comparison pics Angelglory, could you be so kind as to position those models as close to the drawings as possible? What I'd do is draw them with the player's perspective in mind (obviously), and you do the rest?

If you've seen my size-chart thread, then you know that I'm totally up for posing a crap-load of characters for pictures :3 I'm a machinimator, (currently working on a Brawl series named Next Smash), so I work a lot with Brawl and all of its characters and stages, imports or otherwise.

I made the Bowser animation, pretty much within the week that Smash4/5 were revealed. Yes, it's actually animated, I've got a preview of it on my Youtube. But since this is the Ridley thread, I'll leave the link to the video out.

My point is, yes, I'm totally up for making more images for clearer presentations of characters or even just cool action-y stuff like the Ridley/Samus pic I posted several pages back. (b'--')b

 

[Oasis_S]

I think making him crouch like that without being on all fours is a bit strange. And making him walk would be weird, lol. Still, I love seeing any pictures of Ridley's model toyed around with like that.

IF I MAY SORT OF MAKE A REQUEST, what would it look like if Ridley's body was the same size as Bowser's (measured in T-pose)? M&S did a comparison where Ridley was the same height as Bowser in a T-pose, but that left his body a little short. Not bad or anything, and it looked fine in a normal stance. I just wonder if Ridley would look like a reasonable size still when his body was changed to a normal stance. Also, if you felt like it M&S or Angelglory, what if we saw some pictures of possible Ridley attacks (not necessarily like those action shots)? Maybe something where Ridley is grabbing or biting Samus, maybe a tail attack of some sort. I dunno, would just be cool.