Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Hotfeet444]

Perhaps it's because they most likely ran out of development time and / or digital memory adding important characters and other data. I also assume that Sakurai wanted to either keep Kirby alone or add all three Kirby characters.

Wait what? Ran out of time? You do know that Meta Knight was the very first new character revealed for Brawl right? There was never any talk of adding Meta Knight in previous games either, it was always King Dedede, so you're wrong there too. Seriously, do you even research?

Oh no sir, this has been past silly since back before 06 when unnamed individual A stated "I think Ridley would be a fine addition to the super smash brothers series" only to be retorted by unnamed individual B's passionate response "BUT HE'S TOOOO BIG!!!"

Well that's something we're going to have to be dealing with, even if Ridley does make it in. People are going to go into denial that Ridley wasn't supposed to be in the game, just like alot of people who played Brawl did with R.O.B.. Not me though, I love ROB, but you get what I mean. People are already doing it with the Wii Fit Trainer, who looks like an amazing character and just gives me more faith that Ridley will be included.

 

[1983parrothead]

Wait a minute... Have you been around here before, Parrothead?

There was a Parrothead around here pre-Brawl, that I think was a Starfy fan too. Always pushed for more obscure characters. Cool guy. Parrothead isn't that unusual of a name I suppose, but it's still weird if you happened to come up with the same one, lol.

WELL NOW AFTER SEEING YOUR SIGNATURE YOU'RE SURELY THE SAME ONE AND JUST FORGOT YOUR PASSWORD...

Duh yes, me and some of my friends have been here before. I am the same Parrothead you are pointing at. My user name was created in memory of my brother after his death.

Indeed, I had to create a new account after this website updated itself.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well that's something we're going to have to be dealing with, even if Ridley does make it in. People are going to go into denial that Ridley wasn't supposed to be in the game, just like alot of people who played Brawl did with R.O.B..

But that's the best part of supporting Ridley. This is the place where all the ridiculous smash forums based shenanigans seem to manifest.

 

[Hotfeet444]

But that's the best part of supporting Ridley. This is the place where all the ridiculous smash forums based shenanigans seem to manifest.

That's quite true, but it does tend to get a little tedious after a while of always seeing the same arguments. I just wish that someone could come up with a real argument against us for once, y'know?

 

[Keeshu]

People would not understand his role as a villain without a tophat+monocle while having a mustache.

I really can't think of any reason for Ridley not being in there, especially because of some of the other characters that have been added to the roster.

 

[Dark Phazon]

#1 Hes awsome/Appealing
#2 Smash needs more Villians
#3 Metroid needs another rep
#4 he is unique he be the first big/powerful character that can Fly
#5 One of the extremely few Nintendo All-Stars left - Well him and K.Rool i think are the only ones..
Im sure theres more but thats all i can think of atm...they are 5 big points though...

And to all the PeePz that say he would be bland and have a crappy copy and paste moveset..

If he does then Sakurai ****ed up...simple as...look at Mewtwo and Brawl GanonDork....

RealTalk.

 

[Hotfeet444]

#4 he is unique he be the first big/powerful character that can Fly

Uuuuuhhh...

Close but not quite. Everything else I agree with though.

 

[IsmaR]

But I have a feeling telling me that Nintendo / Sakurai find it absurd to have a large-looking dragon as a playable character.

Spoiler

Duh yes, me and some of my friends have been here before. I am the same Parrothead you are pointing at. My user name was created in memory of my brother after his death.

My condolences. I actually made and later dropped an alt account in memory of someone very dear to me.

Back to business, found this yesterday and wanted to post it here just for the sheer awesome factor but realized I also liked the size comparison.

Spoiler

 

[Dark Phazon]

Spoiler

My condolences. I actually made and later dropped an alt account in memory of someone very dear to me.

Back to business, found this yesterday and wanted to post it here just for the sheer awesome factor but realized I also liked the size comparison.

Spoiler

Damn thats a frigging sick pic! Also yh DDD my bad but yh Ridley flies with wings and we have loads of sword users so yh..it doesnt matter....if Ridley is in he should be one of the most unique characters.

 

[Keeshu]

How would you react if Ridley was Charizard clone? How about if Ridley replaced Charizard?

I'd be disappointed, but would be happy with Ridley being added to the game.



Personally I just want Ridley to be fast + able to fly + use fireballs for his advantages. While having a relatively large hitbox, with a few tail attacks. I don't care what else happens to him.

 

[Hotfeet444]

How would you react if Ridley was Charizard clone? How about if Ridley replaced Charizard?

I'd be disappointed, but would be happy with Ridley being added to the game.



Personally I just want Ridley to be fast + able to fly + use fireballs for his advantages. While having a relatively large hitbox, with a few tail attacks. I don't care what else happens to him.

Why do people honestly think Charizard and Ridley are alike? Because they're both fire-breathing lizards? Well, so is Bowser. Charizard and Ridley have more than enough differences to be different from each other.

 

[Keeshu]

Why do people honestly think Charizard and Ridley are alike? Because they're both fire-breathing lizards? Well, so is Bowser. Charizard and Ridley have more than enough differences to be different from each other.

Bowser cannot fly, he only has a Turtle shell, no wings. Charizard and Ridley both can fly with wings that look similar to wings that many generic dragons use.
Bowser over is incredibly goofy looking. Charizard and Ridley have a more intimidating appearance overall.
Bowser is incredibly Obese. Ridley looks like he hasn't eaten anything in weeks. Charizard is fatter than Ridley, but it's not as much of a jump as going from Ridley to Bowser.


Those are just some reasons off the top of my head. I just picked charizard because it would make more sense for Ridley to be a Charizard clone than anything else.

Edit: Inb4 Ridley is meta Knight clone, using his tail like Meta Knight's sword, just more range, but slower.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

#1 Hes awsome/Appealing
#2 Smash needs more Villians
#3 Metroid needs another rep
#4 he is unique he be the first big/powerful character that can Fly
#5 One of the extremely few Nintendo All-Stars left - Well him and K.Rool i think are the only ones..
Im sure theres more but thats all i can think of atm...they are 5 big points though...

And to all the PeePz that say he would be bland and have a crappy copy and paste moveset..

If he does then Sakurai ****ed up...simple as...look at Mewtwo and Brawl GanonDork....

RealTalk.

B-bu-but Metroid is a dead/dying series. With how little the last game even sold, another rep wouldn't really be worth the time at all, anymore than another Star Fox rep! And Ridley would just be a Bowser with wings!


But really, my condolences about your brother, parrothead. I too had kinda recognized the username at first...

And that's a nice pic IsmaR. One of the ones where Ridley's not that much bigger than her but also still has the intimidation factor/feel from not being shrunk too much.

How would you react if Ridley was Charizard clone? How about if Ridley replaced Charizard?

I'd be disappointed, but would be happy with Ridley being added to the game.

If Ridley did somehow replace Charizard, it'd be funny if they only had one move in common or so (like their regular B special or somethin), then during the SSB5/6 speculation period, people would say Charizard couldn't come back because he'd be a Ridley clone, like how some do with Mewtwo/Lucario even though the only real similarity they have is with the Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere. lol

 

[RomanceDawn]

You'd be disappointed with the Super/Brawl design, RomanceDawn?

By the way I always love seeing that art of Ridley. Don't see it very often.

I didn't realize how different the Ridley art was between the American and Japanese. The American one has more of a human like abdomen, I don't like it as much. The Japanese one looks more like Brawl Ridley as we know him. I love that one.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

B-bu-but Metroid is a dead/dying series. With how little the last game even sold, another rep wouldn't really be worth the time at all, anymore than another Star Fox rep! And Ridley would just be a Bowser with wings!

Not sure if serious.

Leaning towards joking though.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

That's quite true, but it does tend to get a little tedious after a while of always seeing the same arguments. I just wish that someone could come up with a real argument against us for once, y'know?

Well there is one legitimate way I can see Ridley not making it in. It has to deal with the difficulty in programming him as a playable character vs other more streamline human based characters. Ridley is going to make more development time to program as a playable char and unless he's prioritized early on, I could see Sakurai deciding against him in exchange of developing /further developing the rest of the roster.

I believe this is what happened in Brawl honestly. Sakurai saw the character and realized early on that the character would be a programming nightmare and thought it best to leave it as a boss and use his team elsewhere. This is not to say Sakurai's team isn't experienced enough to tackle Ridley just that he felt that it unwise compared to the other avenues.

Now do I believe this issue will prevent him from getting into Smash 4? Possibly but I have my doubts. The list of truly eligible characters has certainly weaned and the support for Ridley has skyrocketed since melee. Still If we are to discuss the eligibility of Ridley making it in, we should be discussing the actual programming issues that could prevent him making it in rather than the shallow debacle based on superficial qualities such as height, toe nail size, or what have you.

-------------

And to those saying Ridley doesn't have a personality, that in itself is silly. You don't have to be flamboyant to have a personality, technically even being a "snarling beast" is a personality trait. However that is not Ridley. If anything Ridley is more of the conflict between great leader (though a selfish one) and the beast inside. The thing is Ridley portrays this subtly as he's often in the background of all the crap that happens in metroid. Still if you want to see him really shine, read the metroid manga. The way they express his character is downright spectacular.

 

[Oasis_S]

I honestly don't see what's special about Ridley that makes him a programming nightmare. His body is more humanoid than Charizard's even, with basically the same structure. Charizard even has the baggage of being included as part of 2 other characters.

Do people perceive Ridley as some teenage white girl, trying to be a special unique snowflake.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I honestly don't see what's special about Ridley that makes him a programming nightmare. His body is more humanoid than Charizard's even, with basically the same structure. Charizard even has the baggage of being included as part of 2 other characters.

Do people perceive Ridley as some teenage white girl, trying to be a special unique snowflake.

He's simply hard to animate, with how many things he has going on, and it might take some time to find a reasonable hitbox and pose to compensate for it. Besides that, he's not that hard to integrate, and certainly not as hard as Pokemon Trainer. He's not a developing nightmare, but he's still one of the last possible newcomers that'd be somewhat difficult to integrate, but faaaar from impossible for sure, definitely not much harder than Charizard.

 

[Xhampi]

Well his animations in Brawl were really good so I don't see why the Wii U version would be any different even more when as a playable character he would get even more attention, the only problem would be maybe the 3DS version, but when you know that the develloper is the guy who makes Kid Icarus Uprising and that Pit is alerady comfirmed to return I don't think that another flying character in a 3DS game would be such a problem.

I agree for the hitbox and pose one howewer but the time who will be taken is worth it when you consider that Ridley is one of the last big nintendo character left from a veteran franchise who don't have any viable competition for his series or isn't a flavor of the month (I think the only other one in that position is Mewtwo).

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Besides that, he's not that hard to integrate, and certainly not as hard as Pokemon Trainer. He's not a developing nightmare, but he's still one of the last possible newcomers that'd be somewhat difficult to integrate, but faaaar from impossible for sure, definitely not much harder than Charizard.

I used the word "nightmare" subjectively, but you are right. Ridley shouldn't be an issue for Sakurai's team. "Nightmare" may have been a bad choice of wording. Still I stand by the rest of what I said, I would bet that PT was made a priority really early on in brawl.

 

[Kamiko]

Nightmare for Smash 4!

Spoiler

Actually, we could probably use this against the size argument somehow.

 

[Nitro21]

I can only dream.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Nightmare for Smash 4!

Spoiler

Actually, we could probably use this against the size argument somehow.

Aaawwww...but I like this Nightmare better:

Spoiler

Now that is a serious Pipe dream...

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure if serious.

Leaning towards joking though.

You have to question whether Ridley_Prime is joking about how Ridley would just be a Bowser with wings?

 

[Oasis_S]

I can only dream.

Fantasy is real.

 

[Steelia]

Aaawwww...but I like this Nightmare better:

Spoiler

Now that is a serious Pipe dream...

Huh. And I was thinking of this Nightmare.

Spoiler

He would make for a pretty cool boss.

And hearing the talk of animating Ridley... I think what makes him more difficult than Charizard is how much lengthier his limbs are. The further away bones are from the body of the model, the larger the size of the character animations. He's also a fairly fidgety character, which I can't imagine being fun to animate, though we've had a fair share of mobile characters in the past (Falco, Pichu come to mind).

 

[Hotfeet444]

Huh. And I was thinking of this Nightmare.

Spoiler

He would make for a pretty cool boss.

And hearing the talk of animating Ridley... I think what makes him more difficult than Charizard is how much lengthier his limbs are. The further away bones are from the body of the model, the larger the size of the character animations. He's also a fairly fidgety character, which I can't imagine being fun to animate, though we've had a fair share of mobile characters in the past (Falco, Pichu come to mind).

The image didn't work properly.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

And hearing the talk of animating Ridley... I think what makes him more difficult than Charizard is how much lengthier his limbs are. The further away bones are from the body of the model, the larger the size of the character animations. He's also a fairly fidgety character, which I can't imagine being fun to animate, though we've had a fair share of mobile characters in the past (Falco, Pichu come to mind).

Thinner limbs are actually not harder to animate, quite the opposite. Things like Charizard's chubby legs are a pain to animate, because you always have to make sure they don't clip into the model, and they're prone to do that since they're so small and round. Combine that with Charizard having quite the belly and the fact that he can't move his knees a lot and it becomes quite a challenge all of a sudden. The closer the limbs are to the model's bone structure the better, and since Ridley is so boney in most of his appearances he has much more space to move within, making it less restricted animating him, so in a certain sense he'd be easier to animate than Charizard. However, Ridley's neck is a pain to animate I imagine, and he has much longer jaws than Charizard too. This is all taking the Brawl model into consideration, if we're talking the Other M model then it's mostly just the Charizard deal again minus the chubby legs. The length can be annoying, but not to a big extent, so the longer jaws and arms aren't a big problem.

Point is, Ridley isn't much harder to animate than Charizard, if he's even any harder at all. Just because he's big doesn't make him hard to animate, sure he has more points to animate than a regular human character when taking the wings and tail into consideration, but if they can animate Charizard and make him work, then Ridley is no problem at all.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Fantasy is real.

Show Me.

 

[Phaazoid]

nightmare for Sm4sh?

I thought we were talking about this guy

 

[Steelia]

Point is, Ridley isn't much harder to animate than Charizard, if he's even any harder at all. Just because he's big doesn't make him hard to animate, sure he has more points to animate than a regular human character when taking the wings and tail into consideration, but if they can animate Charizard and make him work, then Ridley is no problem at all.

Not "thin" limbs, rather, the length of his limbs. Ridley's a fairly stretched out character! He has big wings, a long tail, long arms, long snout... It's true that bulkier fighters have to deal with clipping. But lengthy characters tend to jack up the size of their animation files, especially ones with a considerable amount of limbs. I don't see this being a big deal for the Wii U, as I'm sure the disc sizes are larger than the Wii. I'm more worried about this posing a problem for the 3DS version...

 

[Kamiko]

I don't think the length would make any difference, as the number of bones would stay the same. It's already been done in the boss fights in Brawl. The only problem I see would be posing him in a way that keeps his hitbox area small enough without it looking stupid, but that shouldn't be that hard to do.

 

[Anomilus]

Something I've wondered regarding people's views on Ridley.

I hypothesize that those who see Ridley's worth primarily in his dragon-like form and ferocity have initially experienced Ridley through Super Metroid, and those who see Ridley's worth primarily in being "huge" have initially experienced Ridley through Fusion and/or Zero Missions.

It's another one of my points regarding the "Big" Ridley debate.

You can definitely see size buffs between Super's Ridley and Fusion/Zero's Rildey. But what pics alone can't show is how Ridley behaved in all three games. Super Metroid's Ridley flew all over, attacking ferociously and almost unpredictably. Fusion and Zero Missions Ridley on the other hand are restricted to very limited flight patterns and simple fireball patterns. Is it mere coincidence that the handheld Ridley's also happen to take up 30% of the screen?

Oh yeah, ever noticed how Ridley's grabbing Samus never seems to be a big deal EXCEPT in cutscenes? Outside of gameplay, they make Ridley grabbing Samus as some sort of violent display of hulking dominance between a giant beast and its prey. Actual gameplay however? Rarely threatening at all. At most, it was used somewhat awkwardly in Prime 3 when you had to shoot Ridley's hand and mouth.

It makes me think that those who see Ridley's size as so defining that he becomes less threatening when considered smaller don't recognize Ridley's full potential.

Worse is the idea of people basing their views on Brawl Ridley of all things. Brawl Ridley is basically a souped up Dynablade.

- "RIDLEY YOU THIEF!! Come up with your own moves next time!!"

...Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Maybe Dynablade was originally planned to be a boss, and Sakurai substituted Ridley instead.

 

[Kamiko]

I actually faced Ridley first in Prime, his smallest appearance after the original. He was so awesome I made sure to never save after that fight so I could do it over whenever I wanted. I think I still have that file saved somewhere.

When I later saw him huge in Fusion, I just wrote it off as the developers being weird about it, because his size never stood out as a defining trait to me.

EDIT:

...souped up Dynablade.

I don't have the skills to make the response I wanted for this...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Not "thin" limbs, rather, the length of his limbs. Ridley's a fairly stretched out character! He has big wings, a long tail, long arms, long snout... It's true that bulkier fighters have to deal with clipping. But lengthy characters tend to jack up the size of their animation files, especially ones with a considerable amount of limbs. I don't see this being a big deal for the Wii U, as I'm sure the disc sizes are larger than the Wii. I'm more worried about this posing a problem for the 3DS version...

The 3DS only has limitations in regards to many objects on screen at the same time and dual characters like Ice Climbers, a single model isn't a problem. Him having long limbs isn't a big problem at all, not even for the 3DS.

Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Maybe Dynablade was originally planned to be a boss, and Sakurai substituted Ridley instead.

I was actually a bit dissapointed with Ridley's fight for this reason. I mean, Ridley wasn't a character, so I at least hoped his fight would be great, but except for the tail scrapper every other move belonged to Dynablade. He didn't even have his fireballs until the Meta Ridley appearance. It kind of led me to speculate if Dynablade was supposed to be in Ridley's place as a boss, not necessarily against Pikachu and Samus though, but we may never know.

 

[IsmaR]

I also have a save file directly before fighting Meta Ridley, both on my original GC and Metroid Prime Trilogy versions. I've made it a point to do something different to make it a "fair" fight/more challenging each time, such as not using missiles/the Plasma Beam, not abusing the Power Bomb/Boost Ball method to whittle him down to 1/4 health instantly, etc.. No fancy weapons, power beam only, Final Destination.

Also Ridley isn't Ridley in Fusion, it's an X Parasite morphed into his forme. They tend to be bigger/stronger versions of whatever they assimilate.

 

[Deleted member]

Should be worth noting that the size difference between Ridley and Samus in Zero Mission is comparable to that of Bowser and Mario in pre-magic size growth fights in modern Mario games since New Super Mario Bros.

 

[Dark Phazon]

nightmare for Sm4sh?

I thought we were talking about this guy

Hehehe ok my turn...RealTalk though i was thinking.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The 3DS only has limitations in regards to many objects on screen at the same time and dual characters like Ice Climbers, a single model isn't a problem. Him having long limbs isn't a big problem at all, not even for the 3DS.

The main problem many people discuss when saying is that the 3DS cartridges don't hold that much data. I'm not sure on the cap of what the amount of Gigabytes a 3DS cartridge can carry, if they can even hold a Gig, but if they really want to make the maximum amount of characters as they can while making a reasonably sized roster, they should actually take a page out of the Vita's book. Yes, the Vita is a terrible handheld, but what I'm regarding is that instead of having a spot on the cartridge to hold save data and take up space, all saving should be done on an SD card.

It would make sense, as you can have all the content itself on the cartridge and the save data in the SD card, but if that's not the case, imagine how much space saving all the data would take up. For my example, I say take a look at Brawl's save data on a Wii machine, your average Wii game's data is small, around 1-2 blocks. Brawl's save data takes up a whopping 48 or more blocks, which is huge. This will also be a problem for the 3DS' roster as the things that take up the most save spaces are the characters themselves and the overall trophy/sticker data in the game. However, since there's no more real story in Smash 4, Stickers may not have a purpose to come back, which saves some space. I'm still concerned though, and I know I'm not the only one who sees this.

Edit: Looking at my own WIi, I was way off. Brawl's save data takes up a whopping 128 blocks, almost 3 times as big as I first thought. This makes me worry even more.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

You have to question whether Ridley_Prime is joking about how Ridley would just be a Bowser with wings?

lol, ikr? It's times like this I kinda want to have my username changed...

Something I've wondered regarding people's views on Ridley.

I hypothesize that those who see Ridley's worth primarily in his dragon-like form and ferocity have initially experienced Ridley through Super Metroid, and those who see Ridley's worth primarily in being "huge" have initially experienced Ridley through Fusion and/or Zero Missions.

It's another one of my points regarding the "Big" Ridley debate.

You can definitely see size buffs between Super's Ridley and Fusion/Zero's Rildey. But what pics alone can't show is how Ridley behaved in all three games. Super Metroid's Ridley flew all over, attacking ferociously and almost unpredictably. Fusion and Zero Missions Ridley on the other hand are restricted to very limited flight patterns and simple fireball patterns. Is it mere coincidence that the handheld Ridley's also happen to take up 30% of the screen?

Oh yeah, ever noticed how Ridley's grabbing Samus never seems to be a big deal EXCEPT in cutscenes? Outside of gameplay, they make Ridley grabbing Samus as some sort of violent display of hulking dominance between a giant beast and its prey. Actual gameplay however? Rarely threatening at all. At most, it was used somewhat awkwardly in Prime 3 when you had to shoot Ridley's hand and mouth.

It makes me think that those who see Ridley's size as so defining that he becomes less threatening when considered smaller don't recognize Ridley's full potential.

Worse is the idea of people basing their views on Brawl Ridley of all things. Brawl Ridley is basically a souped up Dynablade.

- "RIDLEY YOU THIEF!! Come up with your own moves next time!!"

...Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Maybe Dynablade was originally planned to be a boss, and Sakurai substituted Ridley instead.

You may be right about people's views on the whole size thing in that it's partly based off of what Metroid game they played first out of the three (probably are), but what you pointed out is why Ridley's fights in Super Metroid were infinitely better than in the two GBA games. That and he had a lot more health in Super, and I agree on the whole thing with him grabbing Samus too, except the way it was done in Other M was unpredictable at first and epic. Meta-Ridley's grabbing in Prime 3 was definitely awkward though, yeah. When I think Prime 3 now I tend to only remember Omega Ridley and not that nerfed Meta-Ridley from the beginning of the game.

But yes, your last bit after that sums it up best...