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I have never really had a lot of hope for Ridley in SSB4, but very recently I read someone point out (Mario and Sonic Guy, I think) that DK was part of the 75m stage in Brawl as well as being playable. Whilst you could argue that this version, as the 8-Bit, was different, there are so many versions of Ridley that this can also be argued quite easily for him.
If you are putting up reasons in the OP for Ridley I would recommend using that one. It has certainly made me reconsider my position on Ridley, if nothing else.
At this point I'm convinced that Ridley is a playable boss, probably involving the Wii U gamepad in some gimmicky way. It's the simplest explanation that resolves everything.
Maybe next time he'll get promoted to full playable, right?
Personally, I've been thinking of an argument that pretty much blows the "HE'S TOO BIG" thing out of the water, and that's the inclusion of a stage that's been around since SSB64, the Great Fox.
Take a look at the size of the players on the Great Fox. Obviously, the Great Fox has been sized down. But by how much?
If we use this image as an example as to how big Fox is compared to his Arwing (The Arwing may be a little smaller, but the point stands), we can see how big Fox "really" is.
Now, what we have to do is compare the size of an Arwing to the size of the Great Fox.
In the top right. Those are the Arwings. The Great Fox is ****ing huge.
If scaling down the Great Fox by THAT much is no problem at all? I don't think scaling down a character is.
Playing devil avocado advocate you can look at the 1 of 2 ways
1. Nabbit was missing due to it not being finishes which is why he wasn't present at the E3 built.
2. Nabbit was ready by E3, but people didn't have enough information on him prior so it could have potentially ruined people experience (though I think the surprise would have been more than enough to counteract that).
So changing that to Ridley with pyrosphere you could say..
1. Pyrosphere wasn't at E3 because Ridley wasn't/was a stage hazard, so would have give the game away.
2. Pyrosphere's stage hazard wasn't fully explain prior to E3, so people didn't have enough information on it, but if the stage hazard was disabled like Mushroom Kingdom U, then people might assume that Ridly was playable for the wrong reasons. And as much as I would want to get detractors on our side I wouldn't want it to be due to misleading information.
I have never really had a lot of hope for Ridley in SSB4, but very recently I read someone point out (Mario and Sonic Guy, I think) that DK was part of the 75m stage in Brawl as well as being playable. Whilst you could argue that this version, as the 8-Bit, was different, there are so many versions of Ridley that this can also be argued quite easily for him.
If you are putting up reasons in the OP for Ridley I would recommend using that one. It has certainly made me reconsider my position on Ridley, if nothing else.
At this point I'm convinced that Ridley is a playable boss, probably involving the Wii U gamepad in some gimmicky way. It's the simplest explanation that resolves everything.
Maybe next time he'll get promoted to full playable, right?
At this point I'm convinced that Ridley is a playable boss, probably involving the Wii U gamepad in some gimmicky way. It's the simplest explanation that resolves everything.
Maybe next time he'll get promoted to full playable, right?
Why would they give Ridley the playable boss treatment and not yellow devil? They've been hyping yellow devil much longer. I feel like if playable bosses were gonna be a thing we'd know.
I know some of you are knocking the "leak" saying you can't use the Wii U tablet with the 3DS. Well yeah, the playable boss mode was specifically stated to be Wii U exclusive. The weird guy did say 12 playable bosses, maybe you can play as the Yellow Devil, maybe you can't. I wouldn't write it off just yet since he brought up Gametsu being wrong about Chrom and Lucina being the actual character. It's just something to keep in mind and considering everything we know so far it makes a lot of sense to me as sad as it is to say that.
Oh and Sakurai did say they won't use the gamepad, he also said he wouldn't balance the characters himself and went back on his word stating why.
I know some of you are knocking the "leak" saying you can't use the Wii U tablet with the 3DS. Well yeah, the playable boss mode was specifically stated to be Wii U exclusive. The weird guy did say 12 playable bosses, maybe you can play as the Yellow Devil, maybe you can't. I wouldn't write it off just yet since he brought up Gametsu being wrong about Chrom and Lucina being the actual character. It's just something to keep in mind and considering everything we know so far it makes a lot of sense to me as sad as it is to say that.
Why would you make playable bosses? Better yey, why would you make playable bosses exclusive to the Wii U version? The 3ds version has boss hazards too!
If playable bosses were a thing I'd have expected it to have been revealed as such when Sakurai was talking about the stage bosses in the Direct, or at least have left a cliffhanger note like "I'd like to talk more about this in the future." As it is he only left a cliffhanger on Ridley himself.
Furthermore, Yellow Devil doesn't seem very fun to play as. Left, right, shoot beams, leave stage, AFK. He is designed too similarily to a stage hazard for it to work.
Why would you make playable bosses? Better yey, why would you make playable bosses exclusive to the Wii U version? The 3ds version has boss hazards too!
Because maybe that's what Sakurai wants as the Wii U exclusive mode? It probably lends itself to TV play much more, doesn't mean it's going to have touch controls. Why no Smash Run on Wii U? Dude I'm just putting the pieces together trying to be logical. I'm the biggest Ridley fan ever and this is certainly not what I want. I'm just saying keep this in mind in case tis is what it comes to.
Because maybe that's what Sakurai wants as the Wii U exclusive mode? It probably lends itself to TV play much more, doesn't mean it's going to have touch controls. Why no Smash Run on Wii U? Dude I'm just putting the pieces together trying to be logical. I'm the biggest Ridley fan ever and this is certainly not what I want. I'm just saying keep this in mind in case tis is what it comes to.
I have never really had a lot of hope for Ridley in SSB4, but very recently I read someone point out (Mario and Sonic Guy, I think) that DK was part of the 75m stage in Brawl as well as being playable. Whilst you could argue that this version, as the 8-Bit, was different, there are so many versions of Ridley that this can also be argued quite easily for him.
If you are putting up reasons in the OP for Ridley I would recommend using that one. It has certainly made me reconsider my position on Ridley, if nothing else.
My only guess would be that Sakurai had an idea about who he wanted to be playable and made that initial roster. With Miiverse though it became extremely clear who was the most talked about and with the time given the only way guys like Ridley or. K Rool could be included would be playable bosses. This is all hypothetical and I hope my theories are completely false.
At this point I'm convinced that Ridley is a playable boss, probably involving the Wii U gamepad in some gimmicky way. It's the simplest explanation that resolves everything.
Maybe next time he'll get promoted to full playable, right?
Playable boss is not going to happen, if it was Sakurai would have explained it during the Smash direct, when you know he was talking about bosses. How would it even work? How would it work for yellow Devil? It is not going to happen.
I don't buy this notion of playable bosses or Ridley BEING a boss to begin with. I think its a ludicrous idea. Either Ridley's playable or he's not, and I'm positive about the former.
I wanted to expand and put together both of my sizerants so here they are, inside this spoiler:
So it's no big surprise that the Smash Bros series is not considered canon to the stories of the main franchises. I mean, how often in the main Mario games do you get to see Mario beat himself up? Exactly. But I'm here to talk about character sizes, especially for those who say that Ridley is too big.
Let's start with Mario, as he's quite easy to pin down. According to a Nintendo-approved life size Mario statue, Mario stands at 5'1". Using the official Mario character height comparison chart, you can figure out the rest of the character sizes:
Let me list all of the Smashers' heights according to this for you:
-Mario - 5'1"
-Luigi - 5'9"
-Yoshi - 5'9"
-Peach - 6'1"
-Bowser - 8'7"
-Donkey Kong - 6'1" (on knuckles)
-Diddy Kong - 3'8" (on knuckles)
-Wario - 5'7"
-Toad - 3'4" (not technically a Smasher, but he's a move and someone's going to get mad if I didn't put him on)
Now that you have those heights, here are the official heights for Pokemon Smashers (as of the Pokedex):
-Pikachu - 1'4"
-Jigglypuff - 1'8"
-Pichu - 1'0"
-Mewtwo - 6'7"
-Lucario - 3'11"
-Squirtle - 1'8"
-Ivysaur - 3'3"
-Charizard - 5'7"
-Greninja - 4'11"
With these heights at your disposal, you can see that Bowser is canonically 3 feet taller than Charizard, and that Mario is 6 inches smaller than the Flame Pokemon. This doesn't work in Smash Bros. This is most definitely not a 3 foot difference:
Canonically, this should never happen, but it does. Greninja is taller than Mario in Smash, but in reality, he's two inches shorter:
I'm also pretty sure that we can conclude that this is not an entire foot (with Lucario being the smaller of the two):
In Smash Bros, Olimar is represented as taller than Kirby. Sakurai has gone on record himself to say (in one of the PotDs) that Kirby is 8 inches tall and that Captain Olimar is just a little over an inch. Obviously, you can't have a character that is one inch tall face off against an 8-foot fire-breathing turtle, so what's the most logical solution? Size up Olimar and shrink down Bowser to reasonable sizes. Nobody seems to have a problem with Smash Olimar's size compared to Smash Bowser.
But back on topic, Ridley shouldn't be much of a problem to size down, especially if the Olimar and Bowser situation still stands. The "Ridley is too big" argument is barely valid, and one of the only reason it still hold up is because it's become an Internet Meme. If it hadn't gotten so popular, it wouldn't be one of the main reasons people argue against Ridley. Another argument is that it's awkward to have Samus grabbing Ridley and smacking him, but isn't it awkward enough to have Pikachu rolling around with something 7 feet taller?
I know I was hard on Bowser about his height, but I could use any of the other big smashers as evidence, Bowser is just the easiest to argue. Ridley has every right to get into Smash, and if you can't come up with anything other than size and awkwardness as an issue, then you have no valid reason against him. Size is not canon in Smash, it never has been. You can hold up the size argument for any potential Smasher, but I'll stay right here and put 8-foot Bowser in my 8-inch Kirby mouth.
Thank you for taking the time to read through that (if you did) and please point out if I made any height mistakes or forgot anything important, so I can go back and edit that.
@IsmaR
has given me permission to edit some of the OP with all of the evidence that we would like.
Until 5PM EST Tommorow I will be taking submissions for what is the best evidence presented on this thread.
We will finally have a centralized hub to keep all of our biggest cases in.
My first idea are @aldelaro5 essay and @Smashoperatingbuddy123 shadow analysis (though SOB, I recommend cleaning it up with grammar and making it look nice and presentable)
IF ANYONE has any favorite posts on these boards that they would like to see on the front for the detractors to see, please message me, or quote me here on the thread!
Make sure to add the fact that Nintendo went out of their way to inform everyone of Chrom's role by telling IGN he was not playable, even though they did not do it for Ridley.
On another note, since Robin/Lucina and Palutena's trailers were done in the same cinematic style their respective games have used, or at least promoted with in Kid Icarus' case, I'd expect Ridley's trailer to have an artstyle more akin to Other M's cinematics, less colorful and more brooding, it'd probably have a lot of build up and suspense too. I don't foresee Samus talking in it though, she's still very mute in Smash.
On another note, since Robin/Lucina and Palutena's trailers were done in the same cinematic style their respective games have used, or at least promoted with in Kid Icarus' case, I'd expect Ridley's trailer to have an artstyle more akin to Other M's cinematics, less colorful and more brooding, it'd probably have a lot of build up and suspense too. I don't foresee Samus talking in it though, she's still very mute in Smash.
IMO that depends, in these case the center was Fire Emblem (2 new FE character and 1 veteran), but for Ridley... they could easily use a standar Smash looks (like in Brawl in the fight Samus and Pikachu vs Ridley), cause... we will most likely see a lot of veterans and maybe another "new" character (Mewtwo -yeah i know he's not new- or another villain like Ghirahim or King K. Rool)
Why did people think the newcomers Gematsu listed were the ONLY newcomers? There was no mention of that in the leak at all! And agreeing with the above, the leaker might've mistaken for Chrom being playable because he saw him utilized in Robin's FS...not knowing it was Robin's FS. While I do agree the leak has taken a step back, in no means this makes the leak "dead". Shulk and Chorus Men may very well be in smash, a lot of evidence towards the two. In the meantime, DO expect more newcomers aside from the two, they are just some of the lot.
I was expecting Ridley even though I had belief in the leak. A lot of evidence points to him: being the most requested character by fans, no mention of his name by Sakurai, the trophies Sakurai showed at the April Direct Tiki (Lucina and Robin), Psuedo-Palutena (Palutena), Fi (Ghirahim?/Impa?), and King Kihunter (Ridley hopefully). I do believe he is a boss at Pyrosphere but will be unlockable after he is defeated a certain number of times (sounds cool) and Meta-Ridley would take over as boss.
Those are my thoughts
My only guess would be that Sakurai had an idea about who he wanted to be playable and made that initial roster. With Miiverse though it became extremely clear who was the most talked about and with the time given the only way guys like Ridley or. K Rool could be included would be playable bosses. This is all hypothetical and I hope my theories are completely false.
As much as I want Ridley to be shown on August !
Remember Sakurai is the unpredictable guy who made a Lucina/Robin (with Falcon wtf ?) when we all expected Shulk or Chrom !
Never expect something logical
IMO that depends, in these case the center was Fire Emblem (2 new FE character and 1 veteran), but for Ridley... they could easily use a standar Smash looks (like in Brawl in the fight Samus and Pikachu vs Ridley), cause... we will most likely see a lot of veterans and maybe another "new" character (Mewtwo -yeah i know he's not new- or another villain like Ghirahim or King K. Rool)
Yeah, it does depend. If it's a Ridley solo trailer I expect the more realistic and gritty look of Other M personally, even if there are new veterans in it, but if it's like a villain trailer or anything like that it's probably going to go with the standard Smash 4 cinematic style ala Greninja and Rosalina's trailers.
Yeah, it does depend. If it's a Ridley solo trailer I expect the more realistic and gritty look of Other M personally, even if there are new veterans in it, but if it's like a villain trailer or anything like that it's probably going to go with the standard Smash 4 cinematic style ala Greninja and Rosalina's trailers.
Who says we can't have that art style? Yesterdays announcement was done in the art style of FE awakening, right? Just like Palutena's anime reveal trailer and Little Mac's cell shaded trailer
I think the FE characters were paired with C.Falcon because...Falchion
As for the rest of the character trailers, I can see Ness being paired with Shulk as like Japanese RPG characters. And jigglypuff being paired with Chorus Men who both can sing. As for Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, they will have all their trailers with the protagonist of their series..that's really all I can think of for now
I'm optimistic about Ridley being playable, but I'm not confident enough to say more than 50-50. Don't get me wrong, I believe that yesterday increased Ridley's chances, but I just don't want to be overconfident and then end up being let down afterwards, because it'll hurt more if the worse case happens (which I hope doesn't happen, Ridley needs to be playable this time).
It does seem strange how:
Disconfirmed characters
Waluigi - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct.
Ashley - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct.
Starfy - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct.
Samurai Goroh - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in the SSB Direct.
Dark Samus - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in the SSB Direct.
Dillon - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD.
Midna - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct.
Isabelle - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified in a PotD and in the SSB Direct.
Phosphora - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown in a PotD, role later revealed in another PoTD/screenshot.
Chrom - Quick and straight to the point: named, shown and role specified (through gameplay) in the video yesterday.
Ridley
Not named.
Not shown (we only saw his shadow and a tail (if slowed down the clip/stop).
Role wasn't specified, his was basically called a boss character without being directly referenced, implied to be doing something on Pyrosphere.
Teasing via a PotD, shadow in the direct, trophy quiz in the direct.
Loads of Pyrosphere pictures and many clips of footage of Pyrosphere that lack Ridley.
No Pyrosphere presence at E3 or in demos, and Sakurai didn't mention Ridley.
It's like Sakurai doesn't want people to get the wrong idea, and wants to get it out the way and say who is and who isn't playable. But then why is Ridley, written off by many as supposedly "dis-confirmed", getting different treatment from the rest...? And what's worth noting, after the confusion of yesterday's video, Nintendo went out their way to confirm to people that Chrom is not playable. Months after the SSB Direct, we have not heard anything from either Sakurai or Nintendo about Ridley. If he's meant to be not playable, why didn't they say it there and then? It just seems like a baffling strategy for Sakurai to do, if Ridley isn't playable, he should have said there and then, not drag it out for months on end and up to the Japanese release day, getting our hopes up and then destroying them afterwards. People want to know about Ridley, yet he's tip-toeing around the subject still... I seriously want Ridley playable, and not knowing any concrete information is what's really annoying about this situation, and it's getting to the point where I'm getting annoyed with Sakurai.
Who says we can't have that art style? Yesterdays announcement was done in the art style of FE awakening, right? Just like Palutena's anime reveal trailer and Little Mac's cell shaded trailer
Because it would look weird if its an entire villain trailer showing of Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Wolf, Bowser, Dedede, K. Rool, and Ridley all in the same trailer. If it was just Ridley along with maybe a couple of veteran villains, that would make more sense in the Other M gritty art style.
I do think Ridley will be announced in a villain trailer, though, and I'm really thinking we'll see K. Rool announced with Ridley (unlike before where I thought K. Rool would be unlockable), along with three veteran villains together in one trailer. And it'd probably be the general artstyle using the rocky plain with cliffs like in the Mega Man, Pokemon, and even the Brawl announcement trailers.
I think the FE characters were paired with C.Falcon because...Falchion
As for the rest of the character trailers, I can see Ness being paired with Shulk as like Japanese RPG characters. And jigglypuff being paired with Chorus Men who both can sing. As for Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, they will have all their trailers with the protagonist of their series..that's really all I can think of for now
That's why Falcon was shown off, but there were also anniversaries for Fire Emblem games RIGHT AFTER THAT (namely, today). It was no coincidence that Falcon appeared in the Fire Emblem newcomer trailer.
Who says we can't have that art style? Yesterdays announcement was done in the art style of FE awakening, right? Just like Palutena's anime reveal trailer and Little Mac's cell shaded trailer
I said we can have the Other M artstyle if it's a Ridley solo trailer. I don't think it'd fit for a villains trailer if there are multiple newcomers because at that point it obviously isn't only Ridley's trailer anymore, so they shouldn't emphasize him too heavily.
If Ridley is a stage boss then why is he so small? It would basically be having a perfect sized ridley only available in 1 stage, seems like a terrible idea, and why didn't mentioned this "hype idea" in the direct or e3? Some will say that he will hype the wii u version after the 3ds version (even when he is already hyping the wii u version and he hasn't even finished with all the stuff of the 3ds version), but if that's the case, Why doesn't he reveal Ridley before the 3ds release, when everyone will know that Ridley is playable/not playable, I would say that if he wanted to hype the controlling bosses modes or boss hazards, he wouldn't rely ona single boss
I said we can have the Other M artstyle if it's a Ridley solo trailer. I don't think it'd fit for a villains trailer if there are multiple newcomers because at that point it obviously isn't only Ridley's trailer anymore, so they shouldn't emphasize him too heavily.
Can't argue too much with that. If a villains trailer was used, I think that the most hyped character gets there art style or all characters have different art styles
Can't argue too much with that. If a villains trailer was used, I think that the most hyped character gets there art style or all characters have different art styles
