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Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

Yoshi-Thomas

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Guys, it's not going to be Ridley on Monday

A 3 minute video isn't nearly BIG enough for Ridley. That's why he's in the August Direct, the entire Direct will be devoted to him.
Explaining how complex this boss is on the stage. :yeahboi:
 

BaganSmashBros

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I'd say the eternity of Ridley, because he is too big for just a year :awesome:
No, it will last even further beyond the eternity! Even teh Void will get bored waiting for it to return into teh Void.
Why? Because Ridley is always an exception, so, he is not allowed to go back into teh Void and his Year of Ridley can`t end (or start). And he can`t get internet cookies. Or become a playable character because he never was a playable character and instead always was a boss. And he is giant and can`t be resized. And he is the only thing that can be teased that has appeared in the same way in nearly every game, but 90% more annoying and being the only reason for you to chose only FD Pyrosphere.
 
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WayfaringElf

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Glad to see people aren't drinking the water and losing faith in Ridley. Remember the teasing!
 

ultimatekoopa

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I want to give my point of view of the sal leak, first, let's remember that sal himself isn't the leaker, he has a spurce that sends him emails when he feels like it, now I think I discovered 2 things about his source
1. His source doesn't seem to be working with sakurai's team: I think his source isn't working on the game, Why? Let's remember that sal got wrong the reveal dates of little mac, pacman and the mii fighter, if this guy is working with sakurai's team then he should have known which characters were going to be at the e3 and which not, also the guy couldn't say which pkmn from x and y was chosen and who is the winner between ness and lucas, this also makes me think other things
2. Sal Source contact could have stopped getting information before the roster was finished: I think this because he was unable to say which pkmn from x and y was picked and if lucas stays or not, this could mean that the source for some reason wasn't working anymore with sakurai and his team, now let's think about the development, these are pure assumptions and I could be wrong, I think the first thing they do for a smash game is which character returns and which not, then they pick the newcomers, now this depends on how early greninja was picked, I think he was picked very early but that's just me, now this could explain why didn't the source leak Rosalina, it is because Rosalina was picked after greninja and therefore, the source didn't know about her, this could mean that the source doesn't know of the full roster, in other words, the contact of sal source stopped getting information before the roster was finished
 
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D

Deleted member

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So, hypothetically speaking, what would happen if I drink the Splounge Water? Not that I have, it's just hypothetical
 

Dark Dude

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You're the only one grasping at straws here. You're trying to find ways to justify the notion that Sakurai wouldn't give Ridley the same treatment as other characters. BECAUSE Ridley is so popular, if Ridley wasn't playable it would make far more logical sense for Sakurai to debunk Ridley outright and make it completely clear what Ridley's status is. The notion that Sakurai would do the exact opposite because he doesn't want to "disappoint the fans" is LUDICROUS. It'd be far worse to make it unclear what Ridley's status is, then debunk it months later. The logical thing for anyone to do in this situation is "oh, and I make it very clear that THIS CHARACTER ISN'T PLAYABLE."

Its grasping at straws to suggest that making a vague allusion to a character potentially not being playable that's extremely popular, but not outright saying said character isn't playable, then finally months later show it off and officially confirm. Better to kill it right away. There is literally no justification for hyping something like this with no payoff in the end.
Lol. I'm the one grasping at straws here. Okay. Sakurai has heavily implied, more than once, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. Once in the picture with Samus and someone else fighting saying that someone from Samus' history could show up at any second. Kind of like the yellow devil in Dr. Wily's Castle stage, right? It's not like other players can join in the middle of a match. So, the only way Ridley could show up at any second is if he was a boss character. Then, Sakurai shows Ridley's shadow in Pyrosphere while talking about boss characters. That's a lot of evidence, if not proof, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. I'm merely trying to come up with logical explanations as to why Sakurai didn't actually show him.
I wish Sakurai did kill this, in fact I thought he did, but he might just consider it a waste of time to list off all the characters who aren't playable, since that would be a pretty long list.

You're the one who's being illogical here Dark Dude, you're telling me that Sakurai and his team would finish the Pyrosphere stage around August/September, and then go "oh, why don't we wait half a year to start that stage hazard, and take several months after to complete it. Let's do other things first. Oh, and let's use Pyrosphere in tonnes of pictures, people will love that!", or that they'd take this long to work on such a thing. I really don't think Sakurai would leave a stage hazard and then come back to it later. Besides, Sakurai isn't afraid to show unfinished things, as evidently shown during E3 2014 where Mushroom Kingdom U was in the demo, and one of its hazards wasn't (Nabbit), but then it was shown within a few weeks later. Plus there are likely multiple teams working on it (one working on the 3DS version, and another working on the WiiU version), and there are members of Bandai Namco working on the game, with experience on developing fighting games (so a stage hazard would be a piece of cake for them). Ridley not being completed by SSB Direct is either bad development planning or a terrible excuse created by Ridlephobes.
I didn't say that they development team would wait half a year to start working on Ridley, but maybe they're putting a lot of work into him and continuously tweaking him until they're happy with him. You know, kind of like the way that game development works.
So, your argument was that he's not afraid to show unfinished things because they showed Mushroom Kingdom U without Nabbit... okay, but if Nabbit wasn't finished and they didn't show him... doesn't that go against what you're saying? Yes. It does.
Nothing in game development is a piece of cake. It all takes a lot of time and effort. To assume that creating very complicated 3D model and AI is a piece of cake is ludicrous.
Lol. "Ridlephobes." Implying that I'm scared he might be a playable character. I wouldn't care if he was. There's just no evidence of it, meanwhile all the evidence points towards Ridley being a stage boss. I'm looking at this from an unbiased view while most of you are heavily biased. Think about that.
 

majora_787

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Lol. I'm the one grasping at straws here. Okay. Sakurai has heavily implied, more than once, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. Once in the picture with Samus and someone else fighting saying that someone from Samus' history could show up at any second. Kind of like the yellow devil in Dr. Wily's Castle stage, right? It's not like other players can join in the middle of a match. So, the only way Ridley could show up at any second is if he was a boss character. Then, Sakurai shows Ridley's shadow in Pyrosphere while talking about boss characters. That's a lot of evidence, if not proof, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. I'm merely trying to come up with logical explanations as to why Sakurai didn't actually show him.
I wish Sakurai did kill this, in fact I thought he did, but he might just consider it a waste of time to list off all the characters who aren't playable, since that would be a pretty long list.


I didn't say that they development team would wait half a year to start working on Ridley, but maybe they're putting a lot of work into him and continuously tweaking him until they're happy with him. You know, kind of like the way that game development works.
So, your argument was that he's not afraid to show unfinished things because they showed Mushroom Kingdom U without Nabbit... okay, but if Nabbit wasn't finished and they didn't show him... doesn't that go against what you're saying? Yes. It does.
Nothing in game development is a piece of cake. It all takes a lot of time and effort. To assume that creating very complicated 3D model and AI is a piece of cake is ludicrous.
Lol. "Ridlephobes." Implying that I'm scared he might be a playable character. I wouldn't care if he was. There's just no evidence of it, meanwhile all the evidence points towards Ridley being a stage boss. I'm looking at this from an unbiased view while most of you are heavily biased. Think about that.
They're either abiding by how game development works, or they are taking nearly a year on one simple AI entity on an otherwise finished stage. You'll have to pick one.

You compare this to Nabbit, but we have no idea how long any of these stages have been finished or even been worked on. We have seen Pyrosphere VERY regularly since august of 2013. We only knew about the Mushroom Kingdom U stage just before E3.

And really to wave off evidence as "no evidence" and to call a vague implication "all evidence" really doesn't do wonders for your credibility on the subject. And calling it unbiased doesn't actually make that perspective unbiased. I can call my dog a toaster all I want, but it won't toast bread. It's just going to eat it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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The 'Ridley is not finished' argument is worthless as the game was been worked on since 2012-ish and if you can make more than 30 characters and stages, STAGE HAZARDS, items, music, etc. in 1 year, I don't see how one stage hazard would take more than a couple of months maximum
 
D

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Lol. I'm the one grasping at straws here. Okay. Sakurai has heavily implied, more than once, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. Once in the picture with Samus and someone else fighting saying that someone from Samus' history could show up at any second. Kind of like the yellow devil in Dr. Wily's Castle stage, right? It's not like other players can join in the middle of a match. So, the only way Ridley could show up at any second is if he was a boss character. Then, Sakurai shows Ridley's shadow in Pyrosphere while talking about boss characters. That's a lot of evidence, if not proof, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. I'm merely trying to come up with logical explanations as to why Sakurai didn't actually show him.
I wish Sakurai did kill this, in fact I thought he did, but he might just consider it a waste of time to list off all the characters who aren't playable, since that would be a pretty long list.
The problem is, every character that has been deconfirmed, was without any teasing whatsoever, Palutena was said to "watch over the arena" when Palutena's Temple was revealed, you CAN'T say it's different from Pyrosphere's quote. Also, he wasn't refferring to how "Samus' trama" could appear in the middle of the match, "any second..." implies there is something more than that, for Sakurai when making the PotD, characters aren't in the game until revealed(see Ness' "up until now")

I didn't say that they development team would wait half a year to start working on Ridley, but maybe they're putting a lot of work into him and continuously tweaking him until they're happy with him. You know, kind of like the way that game development works.
So, your argument was that he's not afraid to show unfinished things because they showed Mushroom Kingdom U without Nabbit... okay, but if Nabbit wasn't finished and they didn't show him... doesn't that go against what you're saying? Yes. It does.
Nothing in game development is a piece of cake. It all takes a lot of time and effort. To assume that creating very complicated 3D model and AI is a piece of cake is ludicrous.
Lol. "Ridlephobes." Implying that I'm scared he might be a playable character. I wouldn't care if he was. There's just no evidence of it, meanwhile all the evidence points towards Ridley being a stage boss. I'm looking at this from an unbiased view while most of you are heavily biased. Think about that.
That doesn't make any sense, he could have showed us Waluigi's shadow because he wasn't "happy" with the model, Sakurai showed us a pic of Kirby clipping throught the ground and a lot of unfinished stuff, but Ridley is the exception somehow[/quote][/quote]
 
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Iddis

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If there was a 3 minute Ridley video on Monday I wonder how it would work, also I wonder if Ridley get's a voice over like Paultena or Doc Louis' or Little Mac

Could sound like this (WARNING: Potential spoilers from Wondeful 101)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8e5Rsey-iw#t=4m50s
I agree Wonder Green would work well:troll:
Wonder Blue i'm guessing is who you meant though in all seriousness, which would be ok with me, I think it'd be funnier if instead of saying random remarks like Palutena instead when he gets hit he such does his roar from like i'm guessing Other M or a new Smash roar, haha
 

Phaazoid

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Yeah that's definitely plausible. I hope that's the case. I'm a little worried that the reason why Ridley's movements were so jerky and that he wasn't shown is simply because he wasn't polished enough to be revealed as a boss yet, but I reallly hope I'm wrong.
Well, the other thing to consider is Ridley may have a unique game play element.

Remember how they saved all the (sans zelda/samus) transformation characters until the same direct? A mechanic had changed, so they held off the announcement until all at once.

And lots of newcomers have had fresh mechanics. From the extra custom moves of Miis/Palutena, Luma, the KO bar, megaman having a projectile side smash. It wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to assume that Ridley has something new, too.
We already know gliding is pretty much gone, at least from pit/charizard. And what other flying characters haven't been unveiled? Meta Knight and ROB. Maybe some of them share this new mechanic, maybe it's just Ridley, but it's not hard to believe there could be something new.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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Lol. "Ridlephobes." Implying that I'm scared he might be a playable character. I wouldn't care if he was. There's just no evidence of it, meanwhile all the evidence points towards Ridley being a stage boss. I'm looking at this from an unbiased view while most of you are heavily biased. Think about that.
Basically these sentences will make you look like a toobigot, even if your points are right.
It's the problem on this support thread ; the moment you point out the lack of evidences going for Ridley as playable, you're killed on sight. :denzel:
 

CrypticSpark

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I didn't say that they development team would wait half a year to start working on Ridley, but maybe they're putting a lot of work into him and continuously tweaking him until they're happy with him. You know, kind of like the way that game development works.
So, your argument was that he's not afraid to show unfinished things because they showed Mushroom Kingdom U without Nabbit... okay, but if Nabbit wasn't finished and they didn't show him... doesn't that go against what you're saying? Yes. It does.
Nothing in game development is a piece of cake. It all takes a lot of time and effort. To assume that creating very complicated 3D model and AI is a piece of cake is ludicrous.
Lol. "Ridlephobes." Implying that I'm scared he might be a playable character. I wouldn't care if he was. There's just no evidence of it, meanwhile all the evidence points towards Ridley being a stage boss. I'm looking at this from an unbiased view while most of you are heavily biased. Think about that.


The stage/Ridley Hazard incomplete argument is just as valid as the size one, if even less so. I'm not a game developer, and I don't know anyone who is to give me a better insight, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't keep coming back to pyrosphere to keep tweaking Ridley till he was just right as a stage hazard, they already has him in Smash 4 as a boss, granted they can't just copy and paste the files for him, but they would know how to make him work in a Smash game. Saying it would take this long to perfect him as a stage hazard is just nonsensical, it makes more sense they could potentially make a few stages then come back to pyrosphere and finish him, but not after this long.
 

hotcrumpets

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Even though I would love to have a shulk reveal on Monday, I would much rather have any non-Gematsu character revealed just to shut up the people who think we know everyone in the game. But I am pretty sure the Gematsu leaker is apart of the marketing team, so I think are going to see all the Gematsu characters before release and we will have 4 secret newcomers like every other smash bros.
 
D

Deleted member

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I drank the water, I'm feeling something in my body, what's ha--
Why is this thread still active? Ridley has already been deconfirmed by Sakurai, you guys are clearly delusional! Ridley would be as much as a bad choice as Rosalina, Sakurai would never choose them over the most IMPORTANT characters like Waluigi or Dark Samus!
 

hotcrumpets

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Lol. I'm the one grasping at straws here. Okay. Sakurai has heavily implied, more than once, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. Once in the picture with Samus and someone else fighting saying that someone from Samus' history could show up at any second. Kind of like the yellow devil in Dr. Wily's Castle stage, right? It's not like other players can join in the middle of a match. So, the only way Ridley could show up at any second is if he was a boss character. Then, Sakurai shows Ridley's shadow in Pyrosphere while talking about boss characters. That's a lot of evidence, if not proof, that Ridley is a boss character in Pyrosphere. I'm merely trying to come up with logical explanations as to why Sakurai didn't actually show him.
I wish Sakurai did kill this, in fact I thought he did, but he might just consider it a waste of time to list off all the characters who aren't playable, since that would be a pretty long list.


I didn't say that they development team would wait half a year to start working on Ridley, but maybe they're putting a lot of work into him and continuously tweaking him until they're happy with him. You know, kind of like the way that game development works.
So, your argument was that he's not afraid to show unfinished things because they showed Mushroom Kingdom U without Nabbit... okay, but if Nabbit wasn't finished and they didn't show him... doesn't that go against what you're saying? Yes. It does.
Nothing in game development is a piece of cake. It all takes a lot of time and effort. To assume that creating very complicated 3D model and AI is a piece of cake is ludicrous.
Lol. "Ridlephobes." Implying that I'm scared he might be a playable character. I wouldn't care if he was. There's just no evidence of it, meanwhile all the evidence points towards Ridley being a stage boss. I'm looking at this from an unbiased view while most of you are heavily biased. Think about that.
But they did not have Pyrosphere playable without Ridley during the demo, If they don't care about showing stages off before they are finished then Pyrosphere would have been playable during the demo.
 

majora_787

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The stage/Ridley Hazard incomplete argument is just as valid as the size one, if even less so. I'm not a game developer, and I don't know anyone who is to give me a better insight, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't keep coming back to pyrosphere to keep tweaking Ridley till he was just right as a stage hazard, they already has him in Smash 4 as a boss, granted they can't just copy and paste the files for him, but they would know how to make him work in a Smash game. Saying it would take this long to perfect him as a stage hazard is just nonsensical, it makes more sense they could potentially make a few stages then come back to pyrosphere and finish him, but not after this long.
And really not only does this assume that they're incapable of finishing a stage in at LEAST eight months, but then they proceed to show its unfinished content in a way that leaves the impression that they're hiding something? It's like taking a year on a small painting and putting it on display, but putting a cloth over it and going "It might be a painting or it might be something else I'm not actually sure. I guess we'll have to not know together."
 

RogersBase

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Ridley Mega Post...
WOW. What a post, haha.

It's clear that you took a lot of time to write all this but to be completely honest, none of that convinces me.

The easy answer to the size debate is "Look at Olimar, he's actually the size of a quarter" and that's totally valid but Ridley is still an enormous dragon. Making a character bigger is much easier than shrinking one down. I still think that they could make Ridley fit without looking like he has some kind of deformity (I don't care how many Project M mods people show me, those fan-made Ridleys always look terrible) I just don't think it will happen.

It's also interesting that you bring up the "Samus' trauma" translation from the Japanese Miiverse post as very few people have ever brought that up before and it acts as a further confirmation that Ridley is who he was talking about.

Do you want my honest opinion as to why we haven't seen Ridley as a stage hazard yet? Honestly? Sakurai does not want to disappoint the fans. He knows that lots of people want Ridley. He knows that if he flat out announces that Ridley is a stage hazard, people will be upset. By teasing Ridley fans with the shadow and the trophy fake-out in the Smash Direct, he's giving you hope. Alas, there is no hope. Other M Ridley is a stage hazard. Done. 100%. No question.

That being said, Other M Ridley is a clone so if regular sized Ridley (from the original Metroid) or Meta-Ridley make it in, he can use the excuse that the Ridley in Pyrosphere is a completely different character. I can absolutely see him doing that and I honestly think that's the best possible scenario for Ridley.

Again, awesome mega post but this did not convince me that he's likely to be playable, it only further solidified my stance that's it's highly unlikely.
 

Dark Dude

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The stage/Ridley Hazard incomplete argument is just as valid as the size one, if even less so. I'm not a game developer, and I don't know anyone who is to give me a better insight, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't keep coming back to pyrosphere to keep tweaking Ridley till he was just right as a stage hazard, they already has him in Smash 4 as a boss, granted they can't just copy and paste the files for him, but they would know how to make him work in a Smash game. Saying it would take this long to perfect him as a stage hazard is just nonsensical, it makes more sense they could potentially make a few stages then come back to pyrosphere and finish him, but not after this long.
I'm new to this thread so I don't know what's been said or not. Forgive me for not reading through 1,000 pages. But if these things have been said over and over again, there's probably a reason for that. I'm sure Ridley is done now, but he might not have been when that screenshot and video were taken, and who knows how long ago that was before they were even released.
I'm not a professional game developer, but it is a hobby. When I work on a project, I am constantly going back to elements that I've already had working to tweak them and improve them. It's a never ending process. I believe I've seen a quote from a game developer once along the lines of: a game is never finished, it's just eventually released. Because you could keep making improvements on a game forever, but at some point you just have to say, that's good enough.
 

ddd87

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Sakurai must really not know how to not disappoint people if he thinks teasing for a whole year is much nicer than doing it outright.
 

AustarusIV

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Do you want my honest opinion as to why we haven't seen Ridley as a stage hazard yet? Honestly? Sakurai does not want to disappoint the fans. He knows that lots of people want Ridley. He knows that if he flat out announces that Ridley is a stage hazard, people will be upset. By teasing Ridley fans with the shadow and the trophy fake-out in the Smash Direct, he's giving you hope. Alas, there is no hope. Other M Ridley is a stage hazard. Done. 100%. No question.
Wow. No offense, but that was just pure bull**** right there. Sakurai has said time and time again that he does not like to give false hope to the fans. As the director to the Smash series, he feels that he has an obligation to meet the expectations of both Nintendo and his fans, which causes him a lot of stress during the development of each game. But he never backed down, because he loves his fans and he never wants to disappoint them.

You have a right to not believe in Ridley, but what you said right now is just plain wrong.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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It's possible that the stage is finished but Sakurai didn't want to show its bosd, Ridley, directly, that's all. We have no boss yet, except Yellow Devil, the same way we only knew Flora before brawl's release.
Yellow devil is an example of boss, and others will follow. It's still a better spot than assist trophy. After all, the Mushroom kingdom U was not finished but still playable at E3. But none of the stage had a boss except Yellow Devil. Sakurai probably is glorifying Ridley as a boss, despite being described as intelligent, acts more like a beast, same way Aliens are intelligent for "animals".
Plus it seems it's Other M Ridley we'll get, who just acts as a predator.
Being a boss is already good.
 

majora_787

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Generally when we talk about unfinished we don't mean "Oh in the broad sense of the word they have time to make minor changes". We mean "It has no model or the model is not actually complete on a basic level, or they haven't set up what it does". If the model is finished even if it's not final, and if the AI is finished regardless of if it's final, it can be shown. And those basic components can definitely be made in under eight months by a team of professionals.

EDIT: Why on earth would Ridley be handled differently from both bosses we've seen so far? There is no reason for that.

And we already know these bosses are not fully functional. ESPECIALLY Ridley from what we've seen, if he were to somehow end up being a boss.
 
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WayfaringElf

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Actually, the most darning evidence is that the third correspondence, which claims that there was an "internal debate" about keeping or cutting Ness or Lucas. We now know for certain that the full roster was decided at the beginning of development two years ago, definitively proving the source incorrect on at least that point: that absolute contradiction defeats the legitimacy of the entire rumour. And the Gematsu is shot down once again.
 

AustarusIV

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Just took a glance at the latest RTC...

Do people legitimately hold a grudge against Ridley and his fans? Because some of their comments seem outright hostile. What exactly could make him seem "overrated" at this time?

Granted, I think K. Rool is overrated in chance, but I'm not going to say he's stupid and he sucks (because I do like him).
 
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majora_787

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And you know, really. Hyping Ridley up as a boss in and of itself makes literally no sense. Past that, hyping up Ridley even though people were disappointed by how Yellow Devil works WHILE also showing Ridley off to potentially be BY FAR the worst designed boss in the game? Why on earth would you hype up the poorest-designed boss the most?

And then the entire thing is, this is taking a popular character and making them the only character to be hyped up and ambiguously hinted at to DEconfirm them instead of confirm them to be playable. Which in and of itself is a bad idea.

It's not "impossible" but it's so absolutely inane that I'd probably be struck by lightning five times and live before these mistakes actually were made. It would take someone with literally no grasp on how to hype up a game to go:

"Hey! Look at this largely requested character! We went ahead and put him in the same role he has literally always been in, and even ripped off Dead or Alive to make it happen! And not only do you get this thing that literally is nothing new and not exciting, bosses as a whole have been downgraded to glorified stage hazards! And Ridley is the worst of them ALL! But don't worry, we'll leave ambiguity around so people can be under the impression he's still playable. We wouldn't want to outright deconfirm him like everyone else."

I literally cannot fathom this extremely poorly thought out sequence of events being thought up by someone with years worth of a positive track record.
 
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