The 'Revamp A Veteran' Thread! This Week: Discussing YOSHI (new rules inside)

[Deleted member]

I've only barely started playing KI: Uprising so I don't know too much, but I like where they were going with giving Dark Pit different weapons. They could go a bit further of course, and give him vastly different weapons like claws and whatnot. Of course, these could also be part of custom specials for both Pit and Dark Pit...

Considering Dark Pit is actually a clone of Pit, he can't really have different properties like weight, speed etc. so I feel like different weapons would be where they could differentiate him more.

 

[Just a random scrub]

My suggestions for Dank Pit are pretty simple, actually. First off, I actually think Dark Pit being a clone of Pit makes a lot of sense overall, mostly because, well, canonically, he's an exactly identical clone and all that jazz. (Physically, at least). That being said, other people in addition to me have come up with an interesting idea to distinguish him a wee bit more from Pit.

Giving Dark Pit the special moves Pit had in Brawl that he lost in Smash 4; Angel Ring, Wings of Icarus, and Mirror Shield. (Slightly re-skinned to avoid conflicts in canon; for instance, Viridi is the one providing Dark Pit's up special flight, and not Palutena, which would actually tie into Smash Bros canon, and maybe he could spin his staff around for Angel Ring instead of his bow)? They all function identically to how they did in Brawl. Everything else remains the same. This way, Dark Pit stays a clone, but now he has something to distinguish himself from Pit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think the Claws would work quite similar to how Pit's bow work in terms of animations. That would be a great way to visually make Dark Pit different, but not really functionally. It would give Dark Pit less range however, but maybe more raw power and speed?

The Dark Pit Staff should also be incorperated in Specials and regular attacks I think.

There's honestly a lot of potential, yet I wouldn't know what is realistic to expect, and what is not.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I think either Dark Pit must become a character like the variations of Bowser Jr. Or he must be a character with a completely different moveset. Kid Icarus Uprising things can get into the game yes. Like the Cursed Palm, that would match it. But I think, above all, he should have completely new and unique moves. Very different from the Pit. Like you're actually playing with a completely different 'Pit' (character / angel). And not like Link and Toon Link.

I nominate Jigglypuff again

 

[Crystanium]

Dark Pit is unfortunately the epitome of a clone, which is why he would have been best left as a palette swap like Dark Link. (Dark Samus would have worked well as a playable semi-clone, given her abilities are similar, but also very different.) The problem with Dark Pit is that his mind would somewhat be like Pit's. Sure, he has his own kind of personality, but I doubt he has a different set of skills, as if he learned a new fighting style different from Pit.

This is why when it comes down to Dark Pit, the most you could do is change his specials or leave him as a palette for Pit. There's really not much I can see being done to make Dark Pit different. That would depend on the developers in another Kid Icarus game. Hopefully, we won't have to wait another twenty years. Perhaps it would be best to give Pit his original moveset from SSBB, or to really match his abilities from the original Kid Icarus. These would include:

1. Flaming arrows
2. Crystal Rod (This is probably what Pit's dash attack was meant to be in SSBB.)
3. Angel Feather
4. Mallet
5. Harp
6. Three Sacred Treasures (Final Smash)

I nominate .

 

[Diddy Kong]

Generous of you. And yes, Dark Pit might be very limited compared to say.. Lucina. But the potential of having a moveset is still there believe me.

In the first fight against him, Dark Pit uses a club, the claws, and his infamous Dark Pit Staff. I think those would make for good Special Attacks, or Smash attacks.

He also uses some sort of magical powers that could translate over to Special moves.

Check from 12:55, that's when the battle vs Dark Pit truly begins.

Notice how he does indeed use the very same bow as in Smash, but uses it differently from Pit. He can charge up to rain down a lot of arrows for example, which could be a good new Down or Side Special for example.

11:30 the battle begins here again... Didn't notice that in the last video, Dark Pit was beaten quite damn quickly.

At 11.54 or so he flies towards Pit, that could be a revamped Up B?

12.08, he charges up his Arrow Rain attack, which he could use as well as a new Side or Down Special.

The Neutral B will probably be the same, but can be buffed or become a charge up attack (just to make it a little different)? Dark Pit is more voilent and aggresive than Pit, it would make sense for him to want more power behind his attacks.

It doesn't have to be much... But he could be made into a semi-clone. Him being similar to Pit DOES make sense, and he should keep the same stats as Pit. And in fact, he should remain a character that Pit mains can pick up at any given moment and be effective with.

Uprising really did make me like the character more, but I get why most people didn't like him. Then again, he originated in Brawl sort of. So as a sort of testimony to that, I'd like him to stay.

 

[Deleted member]

Dark Pit is unfortunately the epitome of a clone, which is why he would have been best left as a palette swap like Dark Link. (Dark Samus would have worked well as a playable semi-clone, given her abilities are similar, but also very different.)

This is why when it comes down to Dark Pit, the most you could do is change his specials or leave him as a palette for Pit.

Ok. So. Sakurai already DID consider making Dark Pit a pallet swap of Pit and he essentially is--he was merely given his own icon on the CSS and whatnot so that he would use a different Final Smash (since him using the 3 Sacred Treasures didn't make sense to Sakurai). Now, if Sakurai allowed pallet swaps to have different Final Smashes and such, then sure, put them on the same icon. But otherwise he wouldn't revert him back to a mere pallet swap.

Also, Dark Samus would not work at all as even a semi-clone of Samus. Literally none of Samus' moves in Smash make sense for Dark Samus.

I nominate

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I say...leave the two angles the way they are, but have their customs be different weapons from Uprising (like Pit using the Violet Palm and Hedgehog Claws while Pittoo uses the Viridi Palm and Pandora Claws)

 

[Crystanium]

Ok. So. Sakurai already DID consider making Dark Pit a pallet swap of Pit and he essentially is--he was merely given his own icon on the CSS and whatnot so that he would use a different Final Smash (since him using the 3 Sacred Treasures didn't make sense to Sakurai). Now, if Sakurai allowed pallet swaps to have different Final Smashes and such, then sure, put them on the same icon. But otherwise he wouldn't revert him back to a mere pallet swap.

Also, Dark Samus would not work at all as even a semi-clone of Samus. Literally none of Samus' moves in Smash make sense for Dark Samus.

I nominate

I know Sakurai considered making Dark Pit a palette. I don't know why a final smash would be what made him go through with making him a separate character.

As for Dark Samus, see post #131.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I know Sakurai considered making Dark Pit a palette. I don't know why a final smash would be what made him go through with making him a separate character.

As for Dark Samus, see post #131.

Cause Sakurai (and others probably) thought Dark Pit using a weapon he’s never used throughout the entirety of Uprising would look weird. It’s a reasonable thing to do, but him having a Zelda like final smash is an oof

 

[Zinith]

I think of all the clones in Smash, Dark Pit at least makes the most sense, but did they have to be THIS similar? They should at least modify his frame data to complement a different playstyle a la Ganondorf (oof, a touchy example to bring up, I was just comparing)

Also I nominate because of course I do...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I think of all the clones in Smash, Dark Pit at least makes the most sense, but did they have to be THIS similar? They should at least modify his frame data to complement a different playstyle a la Ganondorf (oof, a touchy example to bring up, I was just comparing)

Also I nominate because of course I do...

Since they’re the same in every way but personality and coloring, they must be that similar (though I still think the customs should be different weapons)

 

[Luminario]

In reality, I don't really want them to waste time on de-clone Pittoo, but if we have to then I'd like to see the Viridi Palm and Pandora Claw mixed in there. Pandora Claws would work well as a Wolf down smash, and while I can't really think of what Viridi Palm might do, I think some creative liberty could be taken to allow it to create pink vines that shoot upwards or slam the stage for smash attacks. I don't really know what Dark Pit Staff could do besides his FS as sniping is the entire concept for that weapon, but I guess it could be a neutral B projectile that shoots a constant beam with no knockback like Fox's blaster, and if you leave it for a bit it charged to become a more powerful shot that does knockback like ROB's laser. There are multiple other choices like the Jetstream Orbitars for windbox attacks or recoveries, or Cragalanche arm for a wide arc rock throw. There's so many weapons in KIU, but fitting them into a coherent moveset for Dark Pit is a little bit tricky

I vote this time~

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Look, I just finished Kid Icarus: Uprising. A much better game than I thought. Although I think it fit a lever control for the camera in ground mode. Since you can even use the buttons, right? Well, I believe it's possible to see the Dark Pit's own movements. There are a lot of arms in the game. In addition to various weapons effects and abilits that can be used during the game. Like the Mega Laser and the Shield that Palutena uses, among others. Dark Pit can use several of these. There are even vehicles and robots! Claws, brawl, palms, staffs, cannons, clubs, swords that are also guns, even orbs, and yes, bows. And there are several models of them. Enough to compose the Dark Pit's Specials and Attacks.

Looking forward to the next revamp. I think Jigglypuff won.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The current votes are up. Gonna change up the thread in about 36 hours from now. I'll add my own vote for this time as well.

: 6 Votes
: 4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

 

[Idon]

Ah ****, shoulda voted for Ike earlier.

Ah well, next time.

Well Dark Pit's already been thoroughly discussed but I just want to note that his final smash should be ramming the enemy with a chariot.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ah ****, shoulda voted for Ike earlier.

Ah well, next time.

Well Dark Pit's already been thoroughly discussed but I just want to note that his final smash should be ramming the enemy with a chariot.

That would be cool...but would make for an even better and op item or stage hazard

 

[Diddy Kong]

Thread update:

Since Jigglypuff got the most votes, we're disscusing her this week, up untill next week Tuesday (at the very least).

Jigglypuff, the Balloon Pokemon, and member of the Original 12 of the very first Smash Bros.

Discuss possible moveset tweaks and revamps here!

Also don't forget to nominate your favorite character after your contribution.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I think it's important to understand that nowadays Jigglypuff is also a fairy type. One of the best types these days. And she has a good combination. The fairy type has moves like: Dazzling Gleam, Draining Kiss, Fleur Cannon, Light of Ruin, Moonblast, Play Rough and Sweet Kiss. And the normal type still has exaggeratedly powerful moves like, Explosion and Hyper Beam. However, if we get into the zone of what Jigglypuff learns, things change. Many of these movements do not appear, but others do. Like Ice Beam, Blizzard and even the Thunder. The most iconic movement in the anime, of course, is the Sing ending with everyone sleeping and tagging. I do not know how it could be used well in a good Final Smash. Maybe it's better to leave as it is currently: One of the moves.Rest, does not make the slightest sense of being a high-damage attack that does not recover life. Or they should change it for another move or else they should change the effect.

Particularly, I think is somewhat obvious that this character is kind of a mistake in the game. But I believe that all the characters that have been in the game should stick to it. With some more complicated exceptions. In fact there were characters like Psyduck who were successful in the first season of the anime as well. Later, others did, too. Only Pikachu remained a success in all. Well, he and Meowth of Team Rocket (a good request for the game).

I nominate the Miis in general. If I can not, I think I'll nominate Mii fighter.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes her Fairy typing does allow for some new stuff, yet I don't really think Jigglypuff merrits all that much from it. Her Specials are already about as iconic as can get. I wouldn't replace a single Special move at this rate honestly.

Rest is an awesome gimmick move that gives her a much needed power-based attack with High Risk-High Reward.
Pound is awesome for many reasons as well as iconic to Jigglypuff ever since Generation 1.
Roll Out just fits extremely well with her design, and was a token Generation 2 move given her since Melee. There's also a lot of stuff to replace say, Mewtwo's Shadow Ball for now that we got far more actualy Psychic type projectile / energy ball attacks.. but it remained because it just fits well with Mewtwo. Roll Out same way I feel.

Then there's Sing, argubly Jigglypuff's most iconic move ever. I wouldn't replace it, just buff it to make it far more useful. The way I thought about it was making it more of a projectile attack, where the music notes become projectiles that make Jigglypuff's enemies fall asleep from a far. And maybe give it a sort of barrier to, where Jigglypuff is protected during the move. Maybe that last part would be somewhat overpowered, but I want it to be a far less situational move.

All other moves are fine with me honestly. Jigglypuff had the exact same moveset in Melee, and she was insanely good in that game. So I really hope they can take more inspiration from that, since it worked too for character that where nerfed from Melee -> Brawl, but buffed from Brawl -> Smash 4 for example; Mario, Sheik, Yoshi and Captain Falcon.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

The only thing I'd fix with Jigglypuff is to replace Rest with Play Rough. The move will still function like the Rest you love in previous games, but this time when you successfully trigger it, it'll have the Play Rough animation with the dust clouds and hearts before the opponent goes flying away. And sure, i guess you can make Rollout and Sing more useful.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Forgot my own nomination

Am gonna add a nomination to Ike this time.

Staying on topic of Jigglypuff, yes I suppose Play Rough could work as a sort of upgraded Pound or something... Yet I don't see it happening that Jigglypuff will be majorly revamped honestly. Which is why I was quite surprised that she got so many votes last week.

 

[Luminario]

Ah the Jiggster, Miss Jiggs, Queen Jiggly. Here's hoping you get some Fairy move now that the typing has been out for a while.
Since Jiggs's most iconic moves in the game are a sleep move and an insta-kill frame 1 move, balancing her is a goddamn nightmare. I think Sing would benefit from having a second move added onto the end like Hyper Voice to knock the sleeping opponents away, or make it into a command grab that combines it with Wake Up Slap. This keeps the iconic move in Smash without it being overpowered with Rest or disappointing as it is now.
Seeing as how Rollout has the least synergy out of all Jiggs's specials, I'd be happy to see it finally killed off. I'd say Dazzling Gleam should take it's place as a chargeable move that generates a wide sphere of light around her for a second, knocking opponents away, or DIsarming Voice to create a love heart projectile for some much needed range.
Her FS is something I'd also love to see changed to something more sound-based. Maybe something to reference Mic Kirby where she screams and large shockwaves pop out in waves.
Also Rest should be renamed Last Resort since it feels more Last Resort-y, but I kinda like the out-there nature of it being called Rest since it makes no sense.

In reality though, I don't expect any changes to her moveset at all. I love that Jiggs is in the game but if we're being honest, I think I would've preferred Togepi or Clefairy as the secondary Pokemon rep all those years ago.

Nominate again~

 

[Diddy Kong]

Thread update!

Am also allowing you guys to revote for a already discussed character. So if you felt like you missed the boat on say, Mario or Ganondorf, feel free to nominate your favorite character yet again.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Well, I had some things to talk about characters that have already been discussed. In Mario's case, for example, I think it would be interesting that he could do damage by jumping on enemies. 1 damage. Just like all the other characters with this element in their games. Sonic would be a ball every time he jumped. But ... is not that going to slow the conversations about the other characters much? Even more so because even when no one else is talking about a character, or when a week or more has already passed, we remain stuck with some characters.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Jigglypuff should get revamped with fairy-type moves and a useful Sing. Also, she should lose Rest or get cut. It's a joke move and is lame as ****. And is there any source in the games or even the anime for her having extra jumps?

Nominate

 

[Zinith]

Maybe have some of the musical notes become hitboxes a la the stars in Yoshi's Ground Pound. Other than that, I don't what I can do to Jiggs that doesn't ruin the whole "joke" factor for her.

Speaking of which, I nominate again

 

[Luminario]

And is there any source in the games or even the anime for her having extra jumps?

Jiggs floats around in the air during one area you can snap a shot of it with the Rotom camera in Sun Moon, and I'm pretty sure it's walking animation that was found in the code has it floating around too, so Jiggs getting multi jumps isn't so far fetched.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, I had some things to talk about characters that have already been discussed. In Mario's case, for example, I think it would be interesting that he could do damage by jumping on enemies. 1 damage. Just like all the other characters with this element in their games. Sonic would be a ball every time he jumped. But ... is not that going to slow the conversations about the other characters much? Even more so because even when no one else is talking about a character, or when a week or more has already passed, we remain stuck with some characters.

Err well, stick to the topic as much as you can please. Previously done characters I don't care about much, but the thread becomes messy if we are gonna talk about characters which haven't been discussed yet. Takes away a little from the thread's purpose I feel. But yeah, Mario's footstool should probably damage. Or have an actual footstool jumping attack as his D Air which is an insane spike or something?

Feel free to nominate Mario again though if you'd wish.

 

[ryuu seika]

Thiago mentioned Sing being Jigglypuff's Final Smash and I think that's a great idea. It would allow the move to hit globally like in the anime without it becoming overpowered (or at least not more so than any other FS). Just up the sleep duration a little and you have a time-limitted free hit, while the move itself does no damage.

This would then free her Up B to become something Fairy type but I haven't done my research for that yet.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I would prefer if Jigglypuff keeps Sing honestly. I doubt Jigglypuff needs an actual overhaul. She already got one honestly between Smash 64 and Melee, and I hope they will give her more of the traits of her Melee move set. She's easily one of the few older veteran characters I would keep mostly the same. Much like Captain Falcon and Yoshi.

Why not a Fairy type Final Smash? Or F Smash becomes Play Rough or something...

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

Cool thing I didn't get notified anymore...

Welp, I missed Kirby and Dark Pit then, not too big of a deal.
Haven't played Kid Icarus Uprising, so I didn't really have an idea for Dark Pit anyway, though I think he could be interesting if he just used that staff of his as a non-Final Smash-weapon.
Kirby should have more moves that referece his copy abilities instead of punching and kicking so much. It's also a crime that his Slide Kick is not his Down-Tilt and his Air Pellet isn't his Neutral-Air.

Sorry about that, I know we're not discussing them anymore, but I just wanted to say that real quick.

I think Jigglypuff is more or less fine as well. Though I don't play Pokémon, so I'm not too familiar with the source material. Pound has always seemed like a weird move for her to have, in my opinion. As for fairy-moves, maybe add some glitter effects or something to some moves for that? Again, I don't play Pokémon, so I'm not too sure if that'd translate well.

 

[Just a random scrub]

It's crazy that some people want Rest to be gone/modified heavily. First off, Sakurai designed it the way it was because he thought it would be broken if it functioned like it did in the Pokemon series. Second of all, it's her staple move by this point. Removing it would be like removing Luigi's Fire Jump Punch, it's just become part of her Smash character that everyone recognizes.

Also, I'm so glad my sweet little puffball got nominated.

I've mained her extensively ever since the first game (despite not knowing jack about her in the games) and I have come up with plenty of changes to buff her up from her.... less than viable presence in SSB4. I'll post them soon, so watch out, y'all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Cool thing I didn't get notified anymore...

Welp, I missed Kirby and Dark Pit then, not too big of a deal.
Haven't played Kid Icarus Uprising, so I didn't really have an idea for Dark Pit anyway, though I think he could be interesting if he just used that staff of his as a non-Final Smash-weapon.
Kirby should have more moves that referece his copy abilities instead of punching and kicking so much. It's also a crime that his Slide Kick is not his Down-Tilt and his Air Pellet isn't his Neutral-Air.

Sorry about that, I know we're not discussing them anymore, but I just wanted to say that real quick.

I think Jigglypuff is more or less fine as well. Though I don't play Pokémon, so I'm not too familiar with the source material. Pound has always seemed like a weird move for her to have, in my opinion. As for fairy-moves, maybe add some glitter effects or something to some moves for that? Again, I don't play Pokémon, so I'm not too sure if that'd translate well.

If you have them, you can still post the character retweak picture sheets you made for characters like Mario and Ganondorf before for previously discussed characters.

Or to avoid controversy.. Please tell me whichever character you'd want to be tagged in whenever discussed.

If nothing else, re-voting is allowed.

It's crazy that some people want Rest to be gone/modified heavily. First off, Sakurai designed it the way it was because he thought it would be broken if it functioned like it did in the Pokemon series. Second of all, it's her staple move by this point. Removing it would be like removing Luigi's Fire Jump Punch, it's just become part of her Smash character that everyone recognizes.

Also, I'm so glad my sweet little puffball got nominated.

I've mained her extensively ever since the first game (despite not knowing jack about her in the games) and I have come up with plenty of changes to buff her up from her.... less than viable presence in SSB4. I'll post them soon, so watch out, y'all.

Be aware we only discuss a character for just about one week however. Unless I get lazy, which happens.. then it'll be longer.

Maybe I should be more consitent in updating the thread though...

 

[PeridotGX]

I don't think Jigglypuff needs major changes. Maybe Rollout and Pound should be swapped out, but I don't have any ideas. Her FS should change too. Maybe the Fairy Z-Move?

Nominating Yoshi

 

[Just a random scrub]

Hooh boy, I have SO MUCH to talk about. This may be my longest post yet.

Not because I'm heavily altering her moves. Just as it has ever since her debut, Jigglypuff's attacks are the exact same. And I like that. She's one of few characters who IMO don't need even a slight tweak to one animation for faithfulness.

But in terms of actual viablity? Nnnnot so much. It's common knowledge by now that Jigglypuff isn't just bad in Smash 4; she was the worst character in the whole ****ing game. And this may have had something to do with the fact that even after she was so badly nerfed in Brawl (and was the 3rd worst character there), she was nerfed in Smash 4.

And pretty badly too. I mean, her strengths were nerfed and her weaknesses were made even worse. As someone who has mained Puff since forever, it was honestly soul-crushing to see my snuggly balloon pokemon become so.... useless. I still stuck with her, though, and I can still say she is awful, but still can do a few things.

I was actually almost reluctant to buff the puff (There's something weird I like about maining a weak piece of cotton candy), but speaking from longtime expirience, here's some stuff I came up with to help make her more viable and hopefully keep her fun to fight against (basically, no Melee Puff, though a few changes were based on Melee)

Spoiler: My personal buffs for Puff

General

• First off, I will address the elephant in the room; one that has been present since Smash 64; her insta-kill when her shield breaks. This will sound weird, especially from someone who’s mained her as faithfully as I have; keep it in. Hear me out; the shield break instant death is one thing that has separated Puff from the rest of the cast ever since Smash 64, and has become a staple of her Smash identity, almost to the level of Rest. BUT, she gets a much larger shield, one of the biggest. Her shield break is still a big weakness, but with the weak shields in Smash 4 and the fact that every **** and Harry had a move that was devastating against shields, it hampered her too much in Smash 4.
  
  
• Jigglyppuff’s air speed has been boosted back up to it’s old Melee value, (1.269 → 1.35), now being the fastest in the game (outside of special circumstances, like Giga Mac, lightest possible Mii Brawler, Limit Cloud, etc), and her air acceleration is a little faster too (0.08 → 0.09). So, why is this? Her whole thing now is she’s supposed to be a great fighter in the air, and she’s meant to be a puffball that zips around with no care in midair, so it just makes sense to keep her as the one with the fastest air speed. Plus, most of the cast had their air speed increased, so yeah.
  
  
• Jigg’s jumpsquat is faster (Frame 6 → 5)
  
  
• During her crouch, she now goes to sleep, looking like her Rest animation (but without a slight flash.
  
  
• Oh yeah, her airdoge needed to be boosted. It’s about on par with the heavies like Bowser. The thing is, the heavies can take tons of punishment, but Ms Puffy……. Can’t. So now, her airdodge has a different duration (Frames 4-29 → 2-25).

Ground Attacks

• Up tilt has more range behind her.
  
  
• Dash attack has a bit more base knockback (16 → 20).
  
  
• Jigglypuff’s forward smash had some unnecessary frames chopped off, reducing it’s start-up (Frame 16 → 12). It’s hitbox also closes off at frame 20, not 19. Did you guys know that in Brawl and Smash 4, a few extra frames were added to the start-up which made it seem like she forgot what she wanted to do, then quickly remembered and procceded with the dropkick? Yeah, say bye to that.
  
  
• Jigglypuff’s up smash deals one more damage (14% → 15%) and has larger range.
  
  
• Down smash is ass, so it got buffed a bit. It is faster (Frames 14-15 → 11-12), and it’s knockback scaling was improved (69 → 82). It has a larger hitbox.

Air Attacks

• Her clean neutral aerial starts sooner (Frame 6-7 → 3-5), just like most sex kicks in the game.
  
  
• Forward aerial has a slight animation goof. While it starts on frame 8, she actually kicks on frame 7. So Just make the hitbox come out on frame 7 to match the animation, and the move’s good to me.
  
  
• Back air has had it’s frame data nerfs undone, now starting on frame 9 instead of 12. Before you get mad, I’d like to point out Falco’s back air, which is frame 4 and doesn't KO much later. Plus, I thought she was supposed to be an air fighter?
  
  
• Up air has an altered FAF (FAF 45 → 40)
  
  
• Down air has a better autocancel window (Frame 45 → 38) and has a slight disjoint now.

Grab/throws

• Dash grab propels her a bit farther, making it reach a bit farther.
  
  
• Jigglypuff’s air release has been standardized. For those non-Puff mains who didn’t know, Jigglypuff’s air release sends her high up in the sky, like Wario’s in Brawl and SSB4 before patch 1.04. This leaves her vulnerable to a few kill confirms that nobody else is vulnerable to, like for instance, Jump Shulk can kill confirm into an Air Slash on Puff because of her odd air release. My girl doesn't need this. Please fix this, Papa Sakurai.
  
  
• Forward throw has an altered angle (55 → 45).
  
  
• Dwn throw has lower base knockback (100 → 70), giving it combo potential at low percents.

Special moves

• Rollout used to not leave you totally helpless if you connected to an opponent, correct? Yeah, bring that back. It’s already a ****ing awful move, but that’s SOMETHING, at least.
  
  
• Pound is a little faster (Frame 13 → 12), now matching the animation, and Rising Pound is back in all it’s glory! This was one of her best aspects in the entire series, and I had no idea why it was ever nerfed as badly as it was, when she was already a hot mess in Brawl. (Then again, I don’t get why she was overall nerfed in Smash 4 either…)

• For the love of Jesus, make Sing not trigger counterattacks anymore! Also, it’s endlag is lower (FAF 180 → 160) and the move is one constant hitbox rather than 3 spilt out across the entire move. Yes, the move’s actually made up of 3 separate hitboxes. Useless **** only the real Jiggs mains know about. Also, she smiles a bit while singing.
  
  
• Rest is frame 1 again. Also, it now always results in a Star KO if the opponent is not on their last stock, and a blast KO if they are on their last stock.

But hey, regardless of wheter she gets the buffs she needs, she'll still be my girl. (In Smash Bros) What can I say? Just love her too much to drop her.

Nominating Mewtwo, who is already in the lead.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nomination recount!

Competition seems tight between Mewtwo and Yoshi.

: 4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

 

[Deleted member]

So I started getting into Jigglypuff recently and she can be very fun, but definitely high risk-reward character in general. Her aerials are great and generally have high priority which is nice, so I don't think I would change much with that. I like that you're incentivized to keep her in the air, being a balloon Pokemon and all.

Rest is the ultimate high risk/high reward move in the game, so I would hate to see it go. Sure, you can try to pull it off without first disabling your opponent, but what's nice is that Jigglypuff has TWO options to disable: either break someone's shield with Pound, or Sing them asleep. Unfortunately though it is kinda hard to do either.
Rollout is also kinda high risk/high reward but can certainly catch people off guard considering otherwise she's pretty slow and floaty.

I do agree though that it would be nice to have some actual Fairy-type moves, and her FS needs to change. I suppose we could kill two birds with one stone and give her a Fairy move FS.

Otherwise, I would love for custom moves to allow Jigglypuff to shine as the true jack-of-all trades that she is in the games. Suddenly then you could have a Jigglypuff using Psychic, throwing Shadow Balls, calling Thunder, or even Resting to recover health, who knows.

 

[Zinith]

Nomination recount!

Competition seems tight between Mewtwo and Yoshi.

: 4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote

It's really only just me and Peridot voting for Yoshi.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's really only just me and Peridot voting for Yoshi.

Truth.. but in fact.. I think Mewtwo has the one vote lead. I counted wrong... Then again, props for you both voting Yoshi up all the way!

RECOUNT!

: 5 Votes
: 4 Votes
: 3 Votes
: 2 Votes
: 1 Vote