The 'Revamp A Veteran' Thread! This Week: Discussing YOSHI (new rules inside)

[Diddy Kong]

I understand

Although Yoshi wasn't showcased all that much...

At the very least we know there's no changes in his Special moves.

Guess we could continue just this one round because upvoting Yoshi took so long? I mean, that seems the most sensible way to do all this...

Maybe we just need more rules in this thread? Cause I totally WAS NOT PREPARED to have a full blow out of 66 (?) playable characters all at once.

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

I know this thread has been pretty much dead for a while now, but how exactly is Smash Ultimate's trailer stopping us from discussing what we'd change about veterans anyway? Even if some of the characters moves are confirmed for Smash Ultimate, we can still exchange our ideas. I'm basically saying that they're not tied to Ultimate, at least mine aren't.


Anyway, I do have some minor suggestions for Yoshi, being a Yoshi-main myself.

It would be awesome if there was some way to throw opponents inside eggs. One option would be to simply have a throw that swallows the opponent, puts them in an egg and then tosses the egg away. Maybe they could even have the target reticle appear.
The second option would have Yoshi just eat an opponent with Neutral-B and when he stands next to them trapped in the egg, he could do his Up-Special to throw them instead of the eggs he usually produces in that move.

I'd also change his Final Smash. I feel like not many people are aware of the fact that Super Dragon is based on the abilities Yoshi gets from eating Koopa Shells in Super Mario World. My gripe with it is that, while flying and spitting fire are very present, the stomping power doesn't get any representation at all. So I'd simply suggest to have Yoshi on the stage with this move, still spitting fireballs with the attack buttons but now make him manually fly with the jump buttons so he can jump and stomp the ground when landing.

Smash Ultimate does change Final Smashes to be quick and to the point, so I think Yoshi will get an entirely new one.
It could be as simle as repurposing Super Dragon to cover the opponent in a flurry of fireballs.
The giant egg from Yoshi's New Island is also a possibility; he could either toss it across the stage to deal grat damage to anyone it hits, or alternatively, could lick up opponents and trap them inside a giant egg and then toss them far away. Or maybe even combine both.
I'd personally finde the giant egg a bit lame, so I hop they go for something else. Maybe something involving the Super Happy Tree and whatnot.

 

[FunAtParties]

I like this idea, I wish I didn't miss the first few... I have so many ideas for those 3.

Yoshi actually has one of my favorite designs in Smash. It's simple, but it works. Realistically I don't really want much to change for Yoshi which, if you know me, is a rare thing to say. I would like the old dash attacks back, as well as upsmash, and would love for Yoshi to be able to DJC again.

One attack I'd like to expand on would be Egg Lay. The first change that I like to think about is his ability to use his tongue to tether like he does in Galaxy 2. Yoshi with more recovery options could make him a scary character. Another thing I'd like to mess around with on Egg Lay, would be the ability to knock the egg around after instead of it taking sponge damage.

So all in all, I don't think Yoshi needs a full revamp, but just some particular changes

 

[Diddy Kong]

I know this thread has been pretty much dead for a while now, but how exactly is Smash Ultimate's trailer stopping us from discussing what we'd change about veterans anyway? Even if some of the characters moves are confirmed for Smash Ultimate, we can still exchange our ideas. I'm basically saying that they're not tied to Ultimate, at least mine aren't.

You said some meaningful stuff there.

I'll try to keep the thread lively again because of this. Yoshi had so many votes for him, only to let the thread die down after E3. It's a shame really.

I also don't think Yoshi needs a complete overhaul, but the changes I've seen here already sound good honestly.

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

One attack I'd like to expand on would be Egg Lay. The first change that I like to think about is his ability to use his tongue to tether like he does in Galaxy 2. Yoshi with more recovery options could make him a scary character. Another thing I'd like to mess around with on Egg Lay, would be the ability to knock the egg around after instead of it taking sponge damage.

Oh yeah, A tether-option sounds nice, though I thing it shouldn't be bound to Egg Lay but rather to his grab, like the other tether-recoveries in the series (Link, Samus, Lucas).
I also like the idea of kicking the egg around, it just laying there does seem a bit unrealistic. Hit it with just enough force to roll it around, maybe off the stage, but hit it too hard and the opponent will be broken free.

 

[FunAtParties]

Oh yeah, A tether-option sounds nice, though I thing it shouldn't be bound to Egg Lay but rather to his grab, like the other tether-recoveries in the series (Link, Samus, Lucas).
I also like the idea of kicking the egg around, it just laying there does seem a bit unrealistic. Hit it with just enough force to roll it around, maybe off the stage, but hit it too hard and the opponent will be broken free.

Yeah I wouldn't mind it being B or Z, but I had Ranno's side b in mind when I cam up with the idea.

On the topic of tethers, I want them all to be more dynamic. As I said earlier, like Ranno's side b in Rivals of Aether, I'd like to be able to tether to the ground to slingshot the character across the stage.

 

[Dig Dug]

Yoshi's almost perfect to me. There isn't too much I would change.

The biggest thing that bothers me is his grab. I would take any meaningful improvement to it. It just fails every single category: killing, comboing, damage, frame data (his pivot grab's endlag is particularly obnoxious to me). There's much more risk using it than there is benefit.

Only other idea I had was to have his side b be able to armor through weaker moves. I mean, he's covering himself with a shell, right? It ought to take more than a light tap to break it.

On a side note, I really like the change to his up b with having his eggs bounce now. Even though that's a big part of his games, it's a change I never would have thought of. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

If this thread's picking up again, then I vote for (Are PT's pokemon still gonna be treated separately?)

 

[YoshiandToad]

I too would like to see an improvement in his grab. It's incredibly laggy and too damn short. I found it ridiculous in Melee Marth could out reach Yoshi, whose tongue is known to be incredibly long and a major part of his attacking style.

I really don't want the egg dozer as a new Final Smash so I hope Super Dragon sticks around or he gets a Yoshi stampede to rample enemies if it HAS to be something other than Super Dragon.

Aside from that grab reach I really can't fault Yoshi though overall.

 

[Dracyoshi]

I'd like to see his grab and side-b (Egg Lay) turned into a tether. The grab would get an increased range.
Similarly to Zero Suit Samus and her two tethers, Yoshi's Tongue Grab would have longer horizontal range but less vertical range than Egg Lay. Egg Lay would be used to tether when you're below the ledge while Tongue Grab would be used to tether when you're coming in from the side.

Also, I'd like if Egg Lay and Egg Throw were to swap positions. (Egg Lay would be Up+B and Egg Throw would be B)
It'd feel more natural to angle your tossed egg if you moved the stick from the center position instead of from the top. Much less stick motion required. Egg Lay would be given new recovery possibilities due to becoming a tether so it'd still be appropriate. And if necessary, remove the small vertical boost from using Egg Throw. It's nice, but I wouldn't mind losing it if Yoshi's recovery needed a nerf because of the powerful new tether options.

Giving Yoshi a tether just makes so much sense, he even had the ability to do so in Galaxy 2! Right now his tongue abilities are just so short and stiff that they feel underwhelming, especially considering that his tongue is one of his most iconic abilities.

 

[FunAtParties]

I didn't know we could nominate, my vote goes to also would it be wrong to share my ideas for the first 3?

I too would like to see an improvement in his grab. It's incredibly laggy and too damn short. I found it ridiculous in Melee Marth could out reach Yoshi, whose tongue is known to be incredibly long and a major part of his attacking style.

I really don't want the egg dozer as a new Final Smash so I hope Super Dragon sticks around or he gets a Yoshi stampede to rample enemies if it HAS to be something other than Super Dragon.

Aside from that grab reach I really can't fault Yoshi though overall.

I wouldn't mind Yoshi stampede, but I'd definitely prefer Egg Dozer over Super Dragon. Super Dragon is just weird.

 

[Zinith]

Okay, where to begin?

First the general buffs. Give his normal attacks less startup lag. Give him faster grabs, and make his throws opportunities to combo. Faster run speed, cleaner dash attack, and BY GOD FIX THAT FORWARD SMASH!!!

Also a nice addition would be for Yoshi to eat items and heal from them like Kirby/Dedede. Seriously it makes no sense to not have Yoshi do that. And I'd really like that tether recovery plz...

Okay for the Neutral B the ability to move the trapped egg opponents is a neat idea.

For Side B I would like Heavy Armor for certain attacks so it would actually be a move to be reckoned with...

Up B looks like it already got an update that I would approve of. The ability to bounce off the ground.

When I say that Eggdozer is gonna be the new Final Smash, that's not a wish of mine, it's a prediction. I would bet money on that!!!

I nominate although I probably won't contribute any further. My boi got talked about, and that's good enough for me.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Well, I would suggest then discussing a little of the Mii characters. I think they should have even more options. Actually, I'd better take this someplace more correctly. The point is that I think in the case of the Miis there should be well over three options of moves for the Special. In fact I think they should be able to change any movement. And why then separate necessarily into three characters? Allow union and creation of other versions as a Mii Mage. The reason for all this would be to represent almost any character you wanted inside the game. As they did with various skins on Sm4sh and with props like the ninja bandana and the lightsabers.

 

[FunAtParties]

Since this thread is dead I'm doing one of the first 3.



I'd like to replace FLUDD, possibly Cape, and probably his dair.

Why I'd replace them:

With FLUDD I'm not a fan of windboxes in general, especially long ones like that. Also, the attack just annoys me looking at it realistically. FLUDD has a lot of utility, but he just uses it to spray once? No rocket? No hover? The attack does the FLUDD dirty imo. I love Sunshine, but it's a terrible reference. Unless there's going to be a character that uses FLUDD exclusively, I'd rather it be an item. With cape, I like it, but I feel it's replaceable, and kinda goes in conjuction with my other idea. Dair is just... if you're going to get rid of tornado, go all the way.

What I'd replace them with:

SideB: Cappy throw- I get not wanting one time references, but I feel like this fits well with Mario's character, and can last for generations even if it only ends up being in one game. Mario jumps, Cappy allows an extra jump, it just works.

I'd like for it to be able to be thrown in three different angles, and stay there for a second, allowing Mario to mix up his recovery. Doesn't even need to do damage or be a traditional projectile, just the additional platform is good.

Another idea would be to make Cappy a sort of command grab in a way that allows Mario to teleport over to them really quickly if it lands, but that's a little rougher around the edges.

Down B: Dive- Mario's belly flops are low-key one of the more important attacks in 3D Mario's arsenal. It helps him move quickly and get to spots he just can't jump to normally. In conjunction with his side b, it'd be an important attack to mix up his recovery with. With a small lingering hitbox that's end lag cancels on impact, he could also use it to start/extend combos. The risk would be if it hits nothing, he's stuck in the state for a long amount of time, which can be easily punished and or lead to SD's.

Dair: Stomp- Give him a stomp that gives him upwards momentum, like a footstool only more powerful. It's an important part of every Mario game, and I'm surprised it isn't there.

 

[Just a random scrub]

.....Wow, we're still on Yoshi?

Well, I'm not sure wheter it would still make sense for me to post my balance changes here (since they're relative to the character's Smash 4 incarnations, but I decided, what the hell. I'm no Yoshi main, so take this with a grain of salt.

Spoiler: My personal changes to Yoshi's Smash 4 moveset

Hoooh boy, Yoshi, how you've changed during Smash 4's lifespan......

Essentially, he started out pretty good. But during the balance patches, he got mostly bugfixes, and a few ambivalent buffs and nerfs that didn't do much either way. The problem is, some characters were heavily buffed by the patches, and pratically nobody played Yoshi, so somewhere along the line, he just dropped off and both his results and his metagame became stagnant.

Not that Yoshi's an unviable character, far from it. I feel he just needs a bit of fine-tuning and a few of his more questionable desgin choices fixed. Here's what I've got.

General

• Yoshi’s weight has been increased (104 → 108).
• Yoshi’s air speed nerf was undone (1.28 → 1.316). Just becauz.
• Some of his bad hitboxes that haven’t been patched out have been fixed.
• Yoshi’s tail attacks now use punch sound effects instead of kick sound effects.
• Yoshi can do the shield platform drop again.

Ground Attacks

• Yoshi’s jab is faster (Frame 3 → 2), and the second hit has an altered angle (361 → 55)
• Forward tilt has less ending (FAF 39 → 30) and it’s hitboxes now cover the entire tail.
• Up tilt starts faster (Frame 8 → 5).
• Down tilt’s now has set knockback (WDSK: 100, Knockack Scaling: 100, Base Knockback: 0). Damage values are different too (5/4.5/5% → 10%)
• Dash attack has much less endlag (FAF 50 → 40), a slightly different angle (65 → 60), and a hitbox that lasts one frame longer, plus less base knockback for better combos (90 → 80).
• Forward smash's hitbox lasts for 3 frames instead of 1.
• Up smash has a better hitbox, which allows it to hit small characters in select scenarios where it would have missed, an altered angle (75 → 80), and less ending lag (FAF 47 → 43). This is in exchange for slightly less damage (14% → 12%).

Air Attacks

• Neutral air has a better hitbox.
• Forward aerial always meteor smashes now.
• Back air’s first two hits always use the autolink angle (361 (grounded opponents)/366 (aerial opponents) → 366 no matter what)
• Up aerial deals less damage (12% → 10%). This makes it a better combo tool, but a worse kill move.
• Down air’s last hit has an altered angle (80/40 → 270/260/280) and altered knockback values (60 (base)/200 (growth) → 5 (base)/ 100 (growth)). The maximum damage the move can do is also increased (32.5% → 35%)

Grab/throws

• Yoshi now has a grab aerial; he sticks out his tongue to deal light damage to anybody standing near him. This also functions as a tether recovery, much like Link and Samus’ grabs. Honestly, does it baffle anybody else that Yoshi doesn't have a grab aerial?
• Forward throw has more damage (7% → 8%) base knockback (55 → 60) and knockback scaling (66 → 80), allowing it to kill near the ledge around 150-ish.
• Up throw has less base knockback (65 → 57), making it a better combo move.

Special moves

• Yoshi’s Egg Lay can be used in midair as a wall grapple, just like his aerial grab. Yoshi can also eat food items with the move, which heal him for 1.5 times the damage they normally would, like Wario's Chomp. Lastly, he can eat some projectiles with Egg Lay.
• Yoshi’s Egg Throw now has the same freedom in throwing angles that it had in Melee (basically, instead of a few fixed throwing angles, the eggs could end up absolutely anywhere, including behind him). I also like how the eggs bounce on the floor now, so I wouldn’t change that.

 

[LoZ00]

Soooo... Is this thread still alive? Because I kinda like revamping veterans, but I have no idea about . On the other hand, here I have some ideas for .

Spoiler: Mario's moveset

• Jab: no changes
• Side tilt: Mario swings his hammer sideways. The animation is taken directly from Super Mario RPG.
• Up tilt: no changes
• Down tilt: Mario rolls forward. Taken from Super Mario Odyssey
• Dash attack: taken directly from Super Mario 64.
• Side Smash: no changes
• Up Smash: no changes
• Down Smash: no changes
• Neutral aerial: a very fast spin attack. The animation is similar to the Spin Jump from Odyssey.
• Forward aerial: a double dropkick forward, like his back aerial. Like the one he had in Smash 64.
• Up aerial: no changes
• Back aerial: no changes
• Down aerial: a stomp, like Dr. Mario's in Ultimate. Taken from the fact that Mario's most standard attack is jumping on his opponents.
• Grab and pummel: no changes
• Back throw: no changes
• Up throw: uses the new animation form Ultimate
• Down throw: a ground pound on the opponent.
• Forward throw: hits the grabbed target with a Green Shell. It's peculiar because the Shell travels forward on the battlefield even after the throw and deals damage.
• Neutral Special - Fireball: no changes
• Side Special - Cap Throw: Mario throws Cappy forward. A secondary projectile. Has shorter range than Fireball but is faster.
• Up Special - Super Jump Punch: no changes
• Down Special - Star Spin: basically Mario Tornado but spins only once, halts the momentum in the air, and has a cute little Luma appearing once the move has ended.
• Final Smash - Ultra Flame: no changes other than the name.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Yo, Diddy Kong ? Is this thread still active?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yo, Diddy Kong ? Is this thread still active?

Yooo my dude.. Yeah depends on if there’s still people willing to discuss revamps. I could make this a general thread without the weekly character where we are free to discuss any character as long as they are veterans. Depends if more people are down with it. I am at least.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Yooo my dude.. Yeah depends on if there’s still people willing to discuss revamps. I could make this a general thread without the weekly character where we are free to discuss any character as long as they are veterans. Depends if more people are down with it. I am at least.

Yeah, I'd be down with that.

 

[Idon]

I just didn't reply because I thought we were still on yoshi, lol.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I think this would be better as a general thread. It doesn't make anyone do certain characters they may know nothing about, but if it does become a general thread, then there should be some basic rules. Such rules should include having people explain the new moves in detail, and forbidding statements that are as basic as "revert to his Melee move set". That's just the first basic statement that came to mind as I was writing this post, so please don't assume I have something against Smash Melee for everyone's sake.

I already have ideas in mind for a possible revamp. A completely revamped character in terms of design deserves a revamped move set.

 

[Frizz]

This thread is interesting. Mind tagging me when Robin discussion arises?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yoshi revamp? Well, sure.
I always ask myself what makes a character and its home series unique. For Yoshi, like many of the original characters, there were fewer specialities.
I have three main changes I would make to Yoshi to make him feel more akin to his Yoshi series;

1) I'd like to see Yoshi use his tongue more, as a grapple and to platform more effectively. Yoshi could stick out his tongue onto specific locations (some specific types of walls or platforms, whichever rules balance out the game). It would also affect his movement, giving him one of his signature evasive moves (quick and in a ball), giving him improved agility in a style already his own.

2) Yoshi needs a trail of eggs to be possible. It could be a simple change, such as, when he eats items or item-enemies, they go into a trail behind him (up to three) which then can be shot out and reused.

3) It would additionally be swell if there were a use to him being ridden. Now, how could this possibly benefit Yoshi- it seems like a weakness.
My thougts are that it could be only available with members of your team- a way to combo up. It would give you a charge into enemies, allowing one hit of a buffer (which would separate you two).

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I could give overhauling a try. Inside the spoiler are new moves. What Yoshi actually does with each move is fairly detailed. However, I'm not good at balancing, so I won't list exact damage or frame data with these moves.

Spoiler: Moves

Forward Tilt - Quickly shoots his tongue out in front of him and retracts it quickly. It has a sweet spot at the very end of his tongue. The very end of his tongue is a common location for sweet spots in this revamp, so I'm going to call it "the sweet spot" in then rest of the described moves.

Up Tilt - Extends his tongue and swings it above him by tilting his head covering a 180° angle. This move has the sweet spot and comes out fast, but it leaves him wide open after. Yoshi also flips and faces the other way after preforming this move.

Forward Smash - Shoots his tongue forward further than Forward Tilt. Yoshi himself is also shot forward a bit. Has the sweet spot, but only when the tip of his tongue reaches the furthest point from Yoshi's original location.

Down Smash - The first hit is Yoshi swinging his tongue just above the floor in front of him. The second hit is Yoshi swinging that tongue behind him at the same elevation as before. If the first hit connects, the opponent is grabbed and spat out behind Yoshi canceling the second hit entirely. If the second hit connects, the opponent is grabbed and spat out in front of Yoshi.

Back Aerial - Shoots his tongue behind him and at a downwards angle. He swings it up, then down, then up again, and then retracts it shortly after. The first two swings connect into the next, and the third launches them behind Yoshi. It has the sweet spot on the final swing.

Up Aerial - A very linear attack where Yoshi sticks his tongue out above him, and retracts it immediately. The sweet spot will launch opponents straight up. Otherwise, they're launched up and slightly to whichever side they're on.

Grab Aerial - His tongue can tether to ledges now. Yoshi can also use this as an attack, but it deals low damage with minimal launch power and the sweet spot isn't there.

Up Special - He throws them like before but has ammo. Up to three eggs follow him around everywhere as his ammunition for this move. If Yoshi has none, the move is an animation that throws no eggs. He can still recover with this regardless. Yoshi spawns with three, and gets them back by giving and receiving damage. Getting them back is a fairly quick process.

His long tongue is what makes him special compared to the rest of the cast, so I thought it should be included in more of his attacks and moves including tilts, smash attacks, aerials, and a new tether recovery. I kept hit boxes of the some changed moves mostly true to their original counterparts, but also changed up a few completely. The end of his tongue is also slightly bigger than the rest of it which looks like it would be stronger in attacks, so that's why most moves that utilize his tongue have sweet spots in that location. He also can be followed by eggs in his main games and can't throw eggs if they aren't there, so I wanted incorporated that into Up Special.

 

[Zinith]

"Yoshi week" was like 3 months ago lol. This thread was pretty dead for a while...

 

[pupNapoleon]

"Yoshi week" was like 3 months ago lol. This thread was pretty dead for a while...

Well, I guess we are giving Yoshi too much attention.
No need to have a vendetta against Yoshi.

 

[Idon]

Let's get on that Young Link week, booooooooooooi

 

[pupNapoleon]

Alrighty. I'm gonna jump on this change of character/ rule as otherwise this thread won't survive.


Young Link: I think Young Link is all about the *potential* of the Zelda universe- the destiny ahead.
Because of this, I would love for him to imbue traits of many different characters.
Sure- his specials could be masks... and honestly, maybe they should be.
That said, and I cannot believe I am saying this- I think Young Link would be a great echo of the other Zelda characters.
Ideally, he would blend traits of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf (more the first two).
He would have more heightened magic than Link ( more akin to Zelda, or at least how I would have Zelda work, which is with a Magic Meter).
And then of course, the traits of Link...


hmm... I'm not sure how I feel about my recreation. I lost steam half way through- but still am interested in my premise.

 

[FunAtParties]

How about we talk about one of the characters previously highly requested like ?

 

[Just a random scrub]

Anyways, how'd yall feel talking about Link?

This feels kinda redundant now, but I combined my balance changes for Smash 4 Link with some stuff I would have done to reflect his BotW appearance. Most of which made it into the game (like no Hookshot. CALLED that ****!) I did update it slightly to reflect similar changes he's gotten in Ultimate so far.

Spoiler: My personal changes to Link's Smash 4 moveset

While I’m not a hardcore Link main, I’ve played him rather often in casual settings, and my friend IS a hardcore Link main, so I think I’m familiar enough with the character to give him some buffs.


Link was better than he ever was prior in Smash 4. Contrary to what all the Link spam on For Glory may lead one to believe, mastering Link in high level play is not exactly an easy thing to do. For all his strengths, Link’s lack of speed and his unorthodox combo game can be a turnoff to many less skilled player's, but as many a Link pro has shown, when played at his best, Link is a pretty scary man.


I thought Link was already pretty well balanced already, but some of his shortcomings are a wee bit too prevalent. Link really doesn't need much, just a slight speed buff, some extra recovery, and a few other mild tweaks, and he’s a-okay to me.

General

• Link’s dashing speed is faster (1.3944 → 1.4).
• Link walks faster (1.188 → 1.2).
• Link now has above average air speed, like he used to in Smash 64 and Melee (0.88 → 1.08). Why his air speed was nerfed pretty hard in Brawl is a mystery of life.
• Link crouches down faster and lower, reducing his profile more.
• Link can now glide; his gliding animation is him using the paraglider from Breath of the Wild.
• Link’s new up taunt involves him posing like this.

Ground Attacks

• Link’s jab has slightly faster startup (Frame 7 → 5). This alone is a rather significant boost, because now, his fastest ground move starts at a normal time for a jab, which is a pretty nice boon for his close up game. Also, Link now has his rapid jab from Melee and Smash 64 again. No idea why this was ever removed. I mean, it wasn’t even particularly OP to begin with...
• Forward tilt has less endlag (FAF 38 → 34).
• Up tilt has less start-up (Frame 8 → 7).
• Down tilt has a much larger meteor smash hitbox and can meteor smash everybody on the ledge, not just Charizard. It’s also faster (Frame 11 → 7).
• Forward smash has slightly more lag (Frame 15 → 17) and lowered base knockback on the second hit (85 → 75). I did this so that maybe the kids who keep spamming his forward smash on For Glory might try something else for a change. Remember, casuals play this game too.
• Link’s up smash has less endlag (FAF 78 → 72).
• When hit at the tip, down smash has a different launch angle that's slightly more vertical.

Air Attacks

• Forward aerial has more knockback on the second hit (100 → 108)

Grab/throws

• Hookshot is gone. (By the way, guys, I predicted Link would get a normal, non-tether grab as soon as I saw Breath of the Wild Link in the trailer. Told ya!) So yeah, I think we all know the good and bad of this by now, so why elaborate further?

Special moves

• Link can do the Quickdraw technique again. Oh yeah, and he can pick up his arrows and do double arrow shots just like we’ve seen in Ultimate gameplay. (I added this in after viewing the Ultimate trailer). Also, he uses the Traveler’s Bow, for those of you who don’t know what his new bow is called. Finally (and this is purely cosmetic), Link leans back farther and lower when charging.
• Link’s Boomerang now functions like it did in Smash 64 and Melee. This means no more wind hitbox, but aside from a few derpy moments in casual play, it never really did very much anyways. ‘Sides, now it’s returning hitbox is back, and that helped my friend escape a few legendary grab setups that would have killed him otherwise (or so he says). Anyways, glad Ultimate brought this back (even if it was a forgone conclusion, because, y'know, no Gale Boomerang in Breath of the Wild.).
• Link can now walk while charging Spin Attack (albeit very, very slowly), and can hold it indefinitely at full charge. It also conserves more momentum, allowing it to cover more recovery distance. Also, the back hit is just as strong as the front.
• Down special works just as it is in Ultimate, except you can detonate it while the opponent is holding it, and it explodes faster. From what I can tell, the time it takes to explode in Ultimate is disgusting.
  

 

[Crystanium]

With Yoshi, there are changes I'd want for him, mostly because he gives me a hard time with Samus. In Yoshi's Story, Yoshi could use his tongue to grab onto certain red objects. I think Yoshi should be able to tether grab. He uses his tongue to grab, not his hands. This means he could lose the super armor when using his second jump. (Any error about Yoshi's properties are mainly due to my lack of playing as him.)

Yoshi could be given a proper third jump with a pair of wings. While Yoshi has these wings when using his final smash, Diddy Kong has his rocketbarrel, so mentioning Yoshi's wings during his final smash isn't enough to warrant opposition to this change. So, what about his Egg Toss? Why not make that his forward special, since Egg Roll is not an ability I recall Yoshi ever having.

Egg Toss could be activated and instead of setting it up like you have to in Yoshi's Island or Yoshi's Story, it could behave similarly to Palutena's Auto-reticle. I think Yoshi's aerial movement could be toned down a bit as well. I've seen Yoshi in his aforementioned games, and while he moves fine with his first jump, his second jump where his legs kick in the air slow him down significantly. And finally, Yoshi's down special shouldn't break shields. Yoshi isn't heavy like Bowser.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Anyways, how'd yall feel talking about Link?

I like your idea for , but a revamp in design I feel deserves a revamp in move set. I had a different one to make him feel more true to Breath of the Wild. This idea can also further declone him from the other two Links. Moves are being compared to and changed from his move set in Ultimate.

Spoiler: Moves

Jab - Link does a four hit move with animations similar to his attack with a one handed weapon while not moving. Each hit connects into the next.

Dash Attack - Link does a quick slash similar to the first hit of his attack with a one handed weapon while dashing. The move in Smash Ultimate would only be the first hit in the animation shown.

Up Smash - When at 0%, the move fires the same beam as Forward Smash but in an upwards direction.

Down Smash - It is now Spin Attack which was his former Up Special. This move can now only be used on the ground, but it can be charged for longer because it's now a Smash Attack.

Shield - Visually, it is now Daruk's Protection. Functionally, it is now just like Yoshi's egg shield. It cracks as it takes damage or is continuously used, and can even break putting Link into a Shield Break animation.

Up Special - Link now uses Revail's Gale instead of using Spin Attack. This immediately has Link pull out his Paraglider and has Revail place gusts of wind at his feet shooting him upwards quickly.

Champion Powers
Above his damage gauge, Link gets four gauges in a line each representing his four champion powers. When Link uses the champion powers, the champions will appear like how they did in the game.

Revail's Gale - This gauge represents how much charge Revail's Gale has. Link spawns with Revail's Gale fully charged and it builds up on its own pretty quickly, but it is half depleted when Link uses the move. How high Revail's Gale take Link is based on how charged it is when he uses it.

Daruk's Protection - This gague represents how much health his shield has. It fills up as his shield regenerates and depletes when his shield takes damage. The gauge is fitting because Daruk's Protection is Link's new shield. Performing a perfect shield shows Daruk appearing in front of Link as if he himself is blocking the attack, but it's only for looks as a Perfect Shield is still just a Perfect Shield.

Urbosa's Fury - This gauge represents how much charge Urbosa's Fury has. Much like Limit Gauge, Urbosa's Fury builds up as Link gives or receives damage. The gauge resets completely when the move is used. If Link presses the B Button while charging a Smash Attack and while the gauge is full, a lightning aura appears portraying the area which Urbosa's Fury will cover. It's radius isn't huge, but is pretty big. When the Smash Attack is released, Link uses Urbosa's Fury as well as the Smash Attack. Urbosa appears by Link and deals some damage to opponents in the lightning aura while stunning them for an extended period of time.

Mipha's Grace - This gauge represents how much charge Mipha's Grace has. It fills up and depletes the same way as Urbosa's Fury. When the gauge fills up, Mipha's Grace happens automatically the next frame. Mipha pops out circling around Link and heals a fraction of the damage Link took.

I wanted to incorporate the four champions into Link's move set because he has them in his actual game. To not see representation of them in Smash Ultimate at all in spite of the fact that Breath of the Wild Link is in the game was a bit of a let down. Some of the other moves I changed in the revamp was trying to stay loyal to the combat system of that game.

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

Yeah, I'd be fine with a general Revamp a Veteran-Thread. Might make something for Wario in the near future.

 

[FunAtParties]

The problem with just randomly doing vets is a lot will got lost in the sauce. It's better to organize it by character like it was before Diddy ditched the thread

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

But doing it freely gives people more choice to do whoever they want. Some fighters are perfect as they are, so revamping them wouldn’t be nessesary. Plus, if someone just misses the veteran they have ideas for, they would be out of luck, and their idea might be worthy of Sakurai hearing it out and putting it in the actual game for all we know.

 

[FunAtParties]

But doing it freely gives people more choice to do whoever they want. Some fighters are perfect as they are, so revamping them wouldn’t be nessesary. Plus, if someone just misses the veteran they have ideas for, they would be out of luck, and their idea might be worthy of Sakurai hearing it out and putting it in the actual game for all we know.

I'm just saying most of the stuff is going to get ignored, because if the thread gets active, it'll get messy.

Also if a character is perfect as they are, just dont nominate them.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I just wanted to say that I agree that, even with the game already launched, I think we should continue to discuss our thoughts and wishes for changes in the gameplay of the game. Also because Sakurai already said that it would not make a new Smash since Melee, and the same happened in Brawl and Sm4sh. Would this be discussed extremely close to a new release? Or we could argue right in time for any idea being absorbed by the community, even though a new franchise game is not a likely situation. At least in our current situation.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

[Half OFF]
Does anyone know the project for Smash Ultimate similar to M? I'm even starting to think there's more to one project like this. I imagine communities like this one, with discussions and ideas that emerge in this and other posts, together with communities of programmers, animators and 3D artists can help projects like this. I use the Blender and I'm looking for the projects to join (despite being without PC) and to add ideas as well.

 

[FunAtParties]

[Half OFF]
Does anyone know the project for Smash Ultimate similar to M? I'm even starting to think there's more to one project like this. I imagine communities like this one, with discussions and ideas that emerge in this and other posts, together with communities of programmers, animators and 3D artists can help projects like this. I use the Blender and I'm looking for the projects to join (despite being without PC) and to add ideas as well.

I would try the Smash Workshop section of the forums if you wanna find people developing mods and stuff.