The Return of Wavedashing? Perfect Pivoting Might Be Just That

[Grass]

Hmm.. I'll have to try that out once I save up enough for it. I don't have melee anymore since my brother has it . He also has the game on an emulator on his laptop. So far I've only been able to practice via N64. I'm a beginner so it would be a long while before I get there, but until then I gotta keep on truckin'.

practice basics in 64 and melee and git gud. :3

 

[Gummyfang]

practice basics in 64 and melee and git gud. :3

Right! >:D I think I'm starting to get a grasp on the aerials so far.

 

[Darth_Nova32]

I feel like once SoccerMom (Sakurai) finds this out he'll release an update to remove it

 

[ATH_]

okay, time to break down the nonsense in this post.

1. There is no "active" in this sense at all. And I apologize if I sound elitist by saying this but, people like Mang0 and M2K still retain their skills from Melee and while I've seen both arguments of why a lot of melee players dislike this game and agree with them. I think they have a point. So yes, I agree with mew2king. I agree with Mang0. Or as mang0 once said "It just feels like brawl."
2. There is no issue of confidence. As people have said earlier, this isn't really a viable technique that can be implemented for mind games/spacing/etc. You can be confident in your ability to do this action, but it won't make you a better player by learning it.
3. I was never against smash 4. I picked it up, played it, liked it, and had fun. I move back to melee. Simple as that.
4. I'm not some petty melee fgt who thinks so highly of himself that I would instantly say Melee > Smash 4. I would like to point out that although a great deal has changed since Brawl (read: engine mods), the game does not feel fast like Melee. I can understand Sakurai's point in trying to make a fun party game for "casuals" but for those of us who enjoy the competitive aspect and can make something of it despite the lack of competitive nature of said game is something that the community should be proud of. That is all I'm saying.

As a human to human, I won't talk on your opinions, unless they are declared using false evidence.
I can see 3 of these points and understand, maybe disagree, but understand. I'll leave those.
Point number 2 however is the one I think is based on false evidence. Or actually, NO evidence whatsoever. It is shown in the video and has been tested that this has uses, and has spacing options, can get you out of situations we used to not be able to do much in, while those are situational, they still count, just not that much.
People are still messing with this to find a use, who's to say they won't find something great?
Another thing, the whole confidence part is completely biased. It can improve people's game. Can. It's not a guarantee, but learning something that has uses and knowing of those uses is important imo. I personally will not be implementing/practicing this tech until more uses are found, but that's my choice based on my opinion on it.
People won't just jump in a tournament with little instruction thinking they can now do this consistently. It would take practice, then confidence to fuel them. The confidence comes from the consistency, ya know? At first when I started playing PM, I was just learning how to wavedash (I'm not a long time comp player, however, I've played smash all my life) and I didn't implement it into my game until I knew I could do it at least semi-consistently. This game's speed, yes, is like brawl to some, but it also makes tons of improvements over Brawl. It IS quicker, and to a lot, is a perfect marker between melee's overwhelming depth and brawl's speed.

note: to clarify, that last sentence was pertaining that it's a good marker BETWEEN the two, not that it has both necessarily (somewhat obvious)

 

[Im Fragbait]

Its a huge deal but only for a few characters ... this tech allows for further control of a character while still moving (able to do tilts, and smash attacks out of dash) before this tech characters were only able to do dash attacks, aerials, and special moves out of dash, with that in mind those who have useful, or significantly long slides will be higher on the tier list. PREPARE FOR FALCON TO BE TAKEN TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.

 

[Ogopogo]

Pretty sure this has been in every smash game to date.

 

[Grass]

As a human to human, I won't talk on your opinions, unless they are declared using false evidence.
I can see 3 of these points and understand, maybe disagree, but understand. I'll leave those.
Point number 2 however is the one I think is based on false evidence. Or actually, NO evidence whatsoever. It is shown in the video and has been tested that this has uses, and has spacing options, can get you out of situations we used to not be able to do much in, while those are situational, they still count, just not that much.
People are still messing with this to find a use, who's to say they won't find something great?
Another thing, the whole confidence part is completely biased. It can improve people's game. Can. It's not a guarantee, but learning something that has uses and knowing of those uses is important imo. I personally will not be implementing/practicing this tech until more uses are found, but that's my choice based on my opinion on it.
People won't just jump in a tournament with little instruction thinking they can now do this consistently. It would take practice, then confidence to fuel them. The confidence comes from the consistency, ya know? At first when I started playing PM, I was just learning how to wavedash (I'm not a long time comp player, however, I've played smash all my life) and I didn't implement it into my game until I knew I could do it at least semi-consistently. This game's speed, yes, is like brawl to some, but it also makes tons of improvements over Brawl. It IS quicker, and to a lot, is a perfect marker between melee's overwhelming depth and brawl's speed.

note: to clarify, that last sentence was pertaining that it's a good marker BETWEEN the two, not that it has both necessarily (somewhat obvious)

I skimmed over most of this and I while I get the gist what you're trying to say, I'd like to point out one thing. The issue of evidence. The person in the video said this was mostly a trick on the wii U and while it can be done on the 3DS, there is no buffer, making the one on the 3DS absolutely pointless.

Now if this were a viable and necessary skill set. Why make it only viable on 1 platform. And before you go for the obvious, let me make it clear, it is not due to program NOR programming limitations.

 

[Impp]

Captain Falcon has the longest pp.

 

[JiggleThosePuffs]

Minidashing Perfect Pivot too OP.

 

[Gidy]

*looks you straight in the eyes and eats a big mouthfull of popcorn*

lol warning

For those Mario players out there, I recommend that you leave the C-Stick to Smash. You can perfect pivot U-Smash and since the back of his U-Smash has more of a hitbox then when it finishes it's a good surprise attack kill move.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

GG, Melee.
GG!

 

[Gawain]

Messed around with this more after giving it more thought. Originally thought it's uses were pretty limited in the 3DS version. Some characters benefit pretty well from this. Fox and Little Mac notably. Pivoting into downsmash with Fox covers ledge attack, ledge roll, and ledge getup(sort of on the getup. Getups are too safe in this game). That only leaves ledge jumping so it really narrows down your ledge guarding game.

Little Mac and Fox can both use this to dodge moves and respond with their Fsmashes which move them forward again. This is the only time it's similar to wavedashing imo. Marth can use this to adjust his space quickly for fsmashes too.

Now, all that said I think it's pretty severely limited in use character-wise. The only characters who get any kind of real benefit from this are ones that have fast dsmashes that don't cancel their momentum and that hit both in front and behind quickly or ones with fast fsmashes that move them forward or otherwise have good coverage. So Marth/Fox/Little Mac/Luigi/Mario etc get good use out of it. Falco benefits from this pretty well, pivoting into his blaster is actually quite good. Despite traveling a good distance with it, Captain Falcon doesn't really get much usefulness out of this. He can dodge stuff and retreat with jabs and thats about it. Characters like Ike get pretty much nothing out of this at all.

So don't get too excited about it, unless you play a character like Fox or Falco or Mac.

 

[Sorry Canadian]

when i do it ill get is a slide, btw im on ds if that means anything

 

[Sorry Canadian]

ok so i think i can do it on the ds but i have to use my other whole hand to do it, is it supposed to be incredibly fast like how the hell do you do it just with thumjb

 

[Kink-Link5]

• Both techniques require different inputs. Pivoting is canceling your dash turn around animation with an attack.

Pivoting has nothing to do with the dash turn animation. It has to do with the one frame of standing that exists in a dash dance and staying in that standing animation instead of going fully into another dash.

 

[Zekersaurus]

Oh snap! WE MELEE!

 

[ATH_]

I skimmed over most of this and I while I get the gist what you're trying to say, I'd like to point out one thing. The issue of evidence. The person in the video said this was mostly a trick on the wii U and while it can be done on the 3DS, there is no buffer, making the one on the 3DS absolutely pointless.

Now if this were a viable and necessary skill set. Why make it only viable on 1 platform. And before you go for the obvious, let me make it clear, it is not due to program NOR programming limitations.

Errr. So I get what you're trying to do here, but I hope it's clear that the Wii U version WILL be the dominant version due to many reasons.
Also, not due to programming errors or limitations, no, it's not. It's due to the fact that the platform didn't have a potential c-stick.

Also, this does not seem to be intentionally put in the game, but more of a mechanic thing. You can do it on the 3ds but it's not as useful due to lack of c stick, so. That sucks for that version, but for the Wii U version, the dominant version, it's actually fairly useful with good consistency.

 

[FGC-Oni]

RIP 3DS Circle Pads.

 

[luiscomic]

We'll to be honest,this pretty much doesn't affect me...I'm trying to become a competitive smasher myself but since I kearned of competitive smashing by project M,I'm truly starting to harness it by Smash Bros 4 but yet I'm not very good at it.Wave dashing seemed like a good technique but I never mastered it in melee.Luckily,I'll be getting the gamecube adapter,Gamecube contoller and Smash Bros Game bundle this Christmas so until then I'll be able to truly put this technique and wave dashing to the test.

 

[Boondocker]

I might buy the game now

 

[DrinkingFood]

Altough much less strong and useful, perfect pivot looks like a more balanced wavedash, wich I smile upon.

"More balanced wavedash"
What lol

 

[GTZ]

I have very little interest in this as an application to my own play-style currently, but I may pick up on it for countering purposes only. kind of an ugly looking technique too, looks like a bad break-dancing move, but may be useful in some ways.

IDK, too early to tell.. Guess I should experiment with it a bit before I jump, or rather PIVOT to conclusions

 

[Grass]

Errr. So I get what you're trying to do here, but I hope it's clear that the Wii U version WILL be the dominant version due to many reasons.
Also, not due to programming errors or limitations, no, it's not. It's due to the fact that the platform didn't have a potential c-stick.

Also, this does not seem to be intentionally put in the game, but more of a mechanic thing. You can do it on the 3ds but it's not as useful due to lack of c stick, so. That sucks for that version, but for the Wii U version, the dominant version, it's actually fairly useful with good consistency.

look, bottom line is this. If Ally/M2K/Armada don't use this or find a use for it then there's no point for me to look into it. As many users already clearly stated, this is a rather difficult trick. By difficult I mean unnecessarily difficult. Wave dashing wasn't difficult to learn or master. Just took time, if this trick is so hard to do, why learn it anyway?

I'm simply not seeing a major use of this at any major or even minor league tournaments. And if the pros don't give a ****, there's no point to learn it. That's my bottom line.

 

[Dirty Duck]

I'm finding it hard to perform this, only started trying 5 minutes ago but most of the time I just dash on the spot. Maybe it's easier with a Gamecube controller. Or maybe I need to git gud.

 

[Ledemduso]

Not sure if it's as useful as wavedashing, for those dashes travel a pretty short distance.
But it's better than anything you could do in Brawl, so...

 

[B.W.]

It actually looks like it can definitely turn into a Melee fiasco, as much as I hate Melee community some times, this may bring them to Smash 4 and move them on from an outdated game.

The only thing outdated about Melee is its graphics and the TV you play on. Mechanically it's still proving to be miles ahead of Smash 4.

People aren't still playing Melee for no reason you know.

 

[krazyzyko]

I'm fairly certain this has been in the game since 64. I think 64 players use it a lot.

Not sure why it wasn't used in Brawl that much though.

As said earlier in the comments I'm 90% sure that this is also an exploit of the game's engine. Not added intentionally at all.

Personally l didn't dash much in Brawl to avoid randomly tripping. In melee we have WD. So l guess sm4sh is bringing it back a la 64.

 

[ATH_]

look, bottom line is this. If Ally/M2K/Armada don't use this or find a use for it then there's no point for me to look into it. As many users already clearly stated, this is a rather difficult trick. By difficult I mean unnecessarily difficult. Wave dashing wasn't difficult to learn or master. Just took time, if this trick is so hard to do, why learn it anyway?

I'm simply not seeing a major use of this at any major or even minor league tournaments. And if the pros don't give a ****, there's no point to learn it. That's my bottom line.

Er. I'd like to point out that the top 3 in Smash 4 right now should matter more when coming to this.
In particular, Nakat/Nairo who have won the most tourneys and have been fighting for the top spot. JTails, M2K, Dabuz, etc. I love M2K and respect his opinion. So I can agree with that.

However, you're own logic goes against itself. Saying it's hard to perform, means that the person would want to be consistent before using it right? Then expecting high level players to get used to a new tech as if it's nothing? Idk, maybe you just didn't get the sense of time across properly, not blaming you or anything.

 

[Grass]

I wasn't going to respond, but after seeing the wall of text you keep sending my way, I'd just like to say 1 word.

Stop.

That is all.

 

[Grass]

Yes and no, Sakurai did say he would only patch Japan's side. Leaving the US to do as they please. However he did say he would patch anything major that was game breaking.

 

[Quillion]

I wish they would just program in a "command" alternative to the wavedash as an official mechanic so that it would satisfy all players (casual and competitive) by giving them a versatile, easy-to-use, movement option.

 

[LimitCrown]

I wish they would just program in a "command" alternative to the wavedash as an official mechanic so that it would satisfy all players (casual and competitive) by giving them a versatile, easy-to-use, movement option.

That would be very hard to do, and wavedashing in Melee was just air dodging toward the ground at a narrow angle. Wouldn't wavedashing be better than walking?

 

[Quillion]

That would be very hard to do, and wavedashing in Melee was just air dodging toward the ground at a narrow angle. Wouldn't wavedashing be better than walking?

Then it should be nerfed so that maybe it gains a lot of distance and you can do stuff out of it, but there's a bit of lag so that you can't spam it to go faster.

It should be kinda like the button dash from Mega Man or the Castlevania Metroidvanias, but adapted to Smash.

 

[GymleaderBen]

time to go frantically practice

 

[LimitCrown]

Then it should be nerfed so that maybe it gains a lot of distance and you can do stuff out of it, but there's a bit of lag so that you can't spam it to go faster.

It should be kinda like the button dash from Mega Man or the Castlevania Metroidvanias, but adapted to Smash.

The problem is that it requires adding another mechanic in the game since you can't replicate it with the current ones. Wavedashing is mainly a physics exploit, and a wavedashing button would just make a character be above the ground for a short period of time and move back to it.

 

[ATH_]

I wasn't going to respond, but after seeing the wall of text you keep sending my way, I'd just like to say 1 word.

Stop.

That is all.

Lol, this is very ignorant of actual good points. Incredible.

 

[kyxsune]

This is turning into a forearm workout to do consistently.

Quick question what lvl should i set the AI, in order to practice ATs in combat conditions?

 

[Quillion]

The problem is that it requires adding another mechanic in the game since you can't replicate it with the current ones. Wavedashing is mainly a physics exploit, and a wavedashing button would just make a character be above the ground for a short period of time and move back to it.

Geez, stop being so all-or-nothing.

I just want some sort of "dash command" that allows you a quick burst of movement and allows you to do anything out of it, not the exact wavedash as the game would overcentralize around it (or the characters who can actually utilize it).

 

[xFumbles]

Alright so when I perfect pivot sometimes I get my character to do a THIRD turn after the pivot. I feel like it would be my control stick bouncing back into place too hard, but I've tried on 3 different controllers with different characters. Anyone experiencing this?

 

[Kahnu]

And here I am, having trouble doing shorthops to fastfalls....

the filthy casual is real



this will literally do nothing for the game, this is NOT the equivalent of wavedashing, and if you think so, i doubt you've ever played melee competitively