Aniolas
Smash Ace
Seretur:
The only thing you **** ever think about is ***.
Stop whining about the rules in this thread.
The only thing you **** ever think about is ***.
Stop whining about the rules in this thread.
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The Renaissance of Xmash 4, Varberg, July 3-6th | Results in 1st post!
- Thread starter Helios
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRHq3iwGrQI
in the last part it shows how too good waveshine is .......
in the last part it shows how too good waveshine is .......
oh finally a moderator posting something intelligent, still would be easaier and more correct to JUST post in english or don't mind... analass could insult me in swedish (i wouldn't really care but that's a usual manner of no social lfe ppl so i would consider it possible) and helios may not warn him, i don't know.. still just talk in english..
and analass stop farting nonsense sentences..
Aniolas
Smash Ace
CPtur: It's just the italians, who trying to insult people in language they don't speak.
Smasher: Too good. Still working for unbanning the wobbling. :D
Smasher: Too good. Still working for unbanning the wobbling. :D
Aldwyn McCloud
Smash Ace
TelpeFion
Smash Lord
mulukut...
Aniolas
Smash Ace
What are you going to do about it?
QFT, just check the vid, and it´s even easier with a wall, it´s the same thing, rhytm for the KO, both are infinites and if the opponent DI the shine, just follow it, shouldn´t be too hard it´s all about rythm. S
o I request the same rule for waveshine/or shine (somewhat better example)close to a wall as for wobbling, since it´s the same thing looking different, ban it if you want´but banning one infinite should be the same as banning all infinite. Since infinites is just the same thing, unescapable combos, sure you can get out of fox infinite if the player messes up, but it´s the same thing as with wobbling, mess up and the combo is over, please check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRHq3iwGrQI
Haven´t everybody somethime gotten stuck close to a wall when a fox shines for all it´s worth?, it´s kinda cheap.... and remember, the one playing in the vid is NOT a top player in the US.....
Aniolas
Smash Ace
Smasher: But, even of you shine you opponent a couple of times. It'snt a free KO, like wobbling. One grab and you are dead...
well, that´s because noone yet has used it in that way or has messed up, but it should be fully possible, like in the vid, and how hard is it hitting with a shine? you just need to shffl something and shine, if they shield, just JC grab or shine again, i think it might be unbanned in teams, as with wobbling, since it can be stopped by a teammate, or maybe both of them gets stuck(lol), but that´s just their own fault then, as with getting grabbed.
When did Chudat beat Ken with wobbling in a tournament, making him win alot of money. If it has happened, please give me a link too those matches...
I would like to see that match if it has happened (I´ve heard that he won something with wobbling, but was it as mayor as FC?)
When did Chudat beat Ken with wobbling in a tournament, making him win alot of money. If it has happened, please give me a link too those matches...
I would like to see that match if it has happened (I´ve heard that he won something with wobbling, but was it as mayor as FC?)
Calle W
Smash Apprentice
Wobbling works against all characters in the game. The drill-shine doesn't.
And btw, Peach (for an example) can easily use SDI to get out of the drill/shine.
When Smash Alex and I play, he always escapes when I try to do the "infinte".
And btw, Peach (for an example) can easily use SDI to get out of the drill/shine.
When Smash Alex and I play, he always escapes when I try to do the "infinte".
Smasher, I have yet to see a 0% to infinite waveshine (infinite being 9999999999+%).
If you can show me a guy stalling the match with waveshines for 8 mins without even looking at the screen on any character on any stage anywhere anytime THEN I might consider banning waveshine.
If you can show me a guy stalling the match with waveshines for 8 mins without even looking at the screen on any character on any stage anywhere anytime THEN I might consider banning waveshine.
lol, stalling is still banned, so the one wobbling such long time should lose because of stalling too long, which I agree with.(even when there´s no judge)please show me a match with someone getting a grab the first minute and stalling for the rest, it certainly is possible, but getting the grab without looking at the screen, wobbling, repeat four times and win, I don´t think you can show me a vid of that, and you can always get out from the grabs at low %, which I´ve some bad experience from (good for learning).
And Calle, does wobbling work against other IC´s?
.
Mii want too see Smashalex doing that (SDI fox waveshine at less than 130%) as both link and peach a couple of times, shouldn´t it be SDI the same frame as the shine is done, which means you´ll really need to know your opponent framewise for SDIing that?
And Calle, does wobbling work against other IC´s?
.Mii want too see Smashalex doing that (SDI fox waveshine at less than 130%) as both link and peach a couple of times, shouldn´t it be SDI the same frame as the shine is done, which means you´ll really need to know your opponent framewise for SDIing that?
Zephynazo
Zobaia -Deus- Ariana
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,311
I watched it and i didnt laugh...>_>
Maybe because i only watched 1min of it
(and maybe because im not swedish o_o; )I think that SDI has to be done in the hit lag(after you've been hit). And the hit lag varies from attack to attack, but I think that 2 frames is the minimum.lol, stalling is still banned, so the one wobbling such long time should lose because of stalling too long, which I agree with.(even when there´s no judge)please show me a match with someone getting a grab the first minute and stalling for the rest, it certainly is possible, but getting the grab without looking at the screen, wobbling, repeat four times and win, I don´t think you can show me a vid of that, and you can always get out from the grabs at low %, which I´ve some bad experience from (good for learning).
And Calle, does wobbling work against other IC´s?
Mii want too see Smashalex doing that (SDI fox waveshine at less than 130%) as both link and peach a couple of times, shouldn´t it be SDI the same frame as the shine is done, which means you´ll really need to know your opponent framewise for SDIing that?
You make no sense.lol, stalling is still banned, so the one wobbling such long time should lose because of stalling too long, which I agree with.(even when there´s no judge)please show me a match with someone getting a grab the first minute and stalling for the rest, it certainly is possible, but getting the grab without looking at the screen, wobbling, repeat four times and win, I don´t think you can show me a vid of that, and you can always get out from the grabs at low %, which I´ve some bad experience from (good for learning).
And Calle, does wobbling work against other IC´s?
Mii want too see Smashalex doing that (SDI fox waveshine at less than 130%) as both link and peach a couple of times, shouldn´t it be SDI the same frame as the shine is done, which means you´ll really need to know your opponent framewise for SDIing that?
Aldwyn McCloud
Smash Ace
Waveshine is a lot fu***ng harder you b****es! There is simply no comparison with wobbling.
Faab
Smash Ace
Smasher89: Why dont you just quit whining about needing to ban shine. It is a very usefull move, true. But it doesn't allow you to beat people with more skill then yourself, in contrary to wobbling. Average people will get grabbed ALOT and that will mean a instant death. Now that's pretty stupid if you look at what we are trying to do. Play competative smash. So just accept it or don't come if you dislike it this much.
N-doing a infinite a whole match=stalling=you´ll get disqualified
You wanted to se somebody waveshine a opponent without looking at the screen in 8 min, I would like you to show me someone get a grab without looking the screen, and use it for wobbling in 8 min, it´s the same thing, kind of impossible.
Faab- Isn´t it whining if you claim you lose because of a single combo you don´t avoid?, just learn to counter it, it´s what smash is about, counter things and do as much damage as possible...
You wanted to se somebody waveshine a opponent without looking at the screen in 8 min, I would like you to show me someone get a grab without looking the screen, and use it for wobbling in 8 min, it´s the same thing, kind of impossible.
Faab- Isn´t it whining if you claim you lose because of a single combo you don´t avoid?, just learn to counter it, it´s what smash is about, counter things and do as much damage as possible...
Sticky, yay! I was gonna wait until I had all the info posted, but whatever 
Italians - Stop whining, NOW!
Aniolas - Stop flaming, NOW!
Oh, and regarding the shine. There's no way shine infinites could be banned, that's just ridiculous.
Italians - Stop whining, NOW!
Aniolas - Stop flaming, NOW!
Oh, and regarding the shine. There's no way shine infinites could be banned, that's just ridiculous.
Shineinfinites cannot be banned since everyone already plays fox and he is top tier?, the only thing I want to limit is it infinitepart against walls to the same amount wobbling will be in singles, since it can easy make you get a free stock lead as you say are wobbling, sure it can be teched (I think) , but you can get out from the grab extreemly quick at low%.
So if you limit the wobbling infinite to say, 3 hits, I suggest we make the drillshine/waveshine infinite against walls to the same, in this suggestion, 3 hits, than the smash/another grab need to come, for doing it all over again, makes it "easier for those whining" to escape...
So if you limit the wobbling infinite to say, 3 hits, I suggest we make the drillshine/waveshine infinite against walls to the same, in this suggestion, 3 hits, than the smash/another grab need to come, for doing it all over again, makes it "easier for those whining" to escape...
Aldwyn McCloud
Smash Ace
you'd need a wall in order to do it, also you're probably going to mess up before you finish it.
Faab
Smash Ace
Smasher89: A single combo you avoid? Buy yourself some brains man. So every character in the game is top tier just cause they can win if they dont get hit.
In my opinion this is the best game there is. And i especially love how they implented DI. Which can get you out of combo's if you didn't know that. Guess what, you cant DI that crappy move.
Besides that the shine infinite doesn't work on all characters, it requires a WALL. That's already limiting the infinite. How many stages have a wall? There is corneria, Venom, Green Greens, Temple, Peach castle, Rainbow ride, Onett and Fourside. Besides that some of them are already banned, it's logical for a player to counterpick a stage that is good for fox, not just to get a infinite. And the fact that it's retardedly difficult compared to wobbling finishes it off. Have a good day ^_^
In my opinion this is the best game there is. And i especially love how they implented DI. Which can get you out of combo's if you didn't know that. Guess what, you cant DI that crappy move.
Besides that the shine infinite doesn't work on all characters, it requires a WALL. That's already limiting the infinite. How many stages have a wall? There is corneria, Venom, Green Greens, Temple, Peach castle, Rainbow ride, Onett and Fourside. Besides that some of them are already banned, it's logical for a player to counterpick a stage that is good for fox, not just to get a infinite. And the fact that it's retardedly difficult compared to wobbling finishes it off. Have a good day ^_^
Out of all these stages named, there is ONE place in which you can infinite a character (infinitely), and that is the middle platform to the left on Onett. On all the other (allowed) stages, there are things happening that just won't allow for a true infinite. Besides, they require a ****load more than just "get a grab and mash one button".
I've yet to actually make up my mind regarding the wobble, but there's no way shine infinite can be banned.
I've yet to actually make up my mind regarding the wobble, but there's no way shine infinite can be banned.
Wobbling is still situational as are wallinfinite, but people may counterpick the stages for being able to do the infinite, sure it´s situational, but you can combo into it, as with not banning the wobbling years ago, it seems to be the same thing with the wallinfinite sure there´s not much stages with it but it´s at least two that would like guarantie a wallinfiniteing fox to win, people WILL learn if it´s still unbanned and be "as cheap" as infiniting IC players, the problem for the infiniteusing IC players is that they will lose a thing to get really good, good mindgames and reflexes, which won´t let you be one of the best SSBM players in the world, why didnt chudat use the infinite, was it because it was hard?
You keeps saying that it´s extreemly easy, why didn´t he end up winning FC6?
For me I would use the infinite to sure, maybe getting higher in tourneys, but more important, play against better players and getting better, if you keep using the infinite you´ll someday end up loosing because the lack of mindgames and need to rethink the strategy as whole, which you wouldn´t want to happen, limiting the infinite to take "just one stock" seems fine to me...
You keeps saying that it´s extreemly easy, why didn´t he end up winning FC6?
For me I would use the infinite to sure, maybe getting higher in tourneys, but more important, play against better players and getting better, if you keep using the infinite you´ll someday end up loosing because the lack of mindgames and need to rethink the strategy as whole, which you wouldn´t want to happen, limiting the infinite to take "just one stock" seems fine to me...
Wobbles won Evo South using "his" technique, beating players that were supposedly better than him.
Shine infinite has been around since before I started going to tournaments, and yet it hasn't been proven broken. Nuff said.
Shine infinite has been around since before I started going to tournaments, and yet it hasn't been proven broken. Nuff said.
Zephynazo
Zobaia -Deus- Ariana
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,311
Smasher89: U say u would use the infinte for sure, do u mean the drill-shine or wobbling?
And imo its kinda lame that u say u would use a infinte JUST to get higher ranked at tournements and play against better players...
If u want to play against better players u can simply just ask them for some friendlies, right?
And imo its kinda lame that u say u would use a infinte JUST to get higher ranked at tournements and play against better players...
If u want to play against better players u can simply just ask them for some friendlies, right?
Luma
Smash Lord
smasher why dont u just stfu?
Zephy- Yes, but they will play much more for winning in a tournament match then a friendly, which makes better practise (and more losses, for the beginning) most people intend to do that, and wobbling would be nice as a "triumph card" when it is like ICs 1 stock against Peach 3 stock or something, might make it somewhat more even....
Why isn´t anyone (someone somewhat wellknown) using IC´s and have been using them the last 3 years in europe with the combo unbanned? their recovery isn´t the best in the game for sure,
Why isn´t anyone (someone somewhat wellknown) using IC´s and have been using them the last 3 years in europe with the combo unbanned? their recovery isn´t the best in the game for sure,
Ryuker
Smash Lord
First off all a waveshine is mostly used as a setup. If wobbling is mastered a Ice Climber grab leads to instant death there is a huge difference there. Only with a action replay a fox could waveshine someone continiously for 8 minutes but without it it is impossible.... .
Like Helios mentioned there is only one really small part of a stage where a waveshine infinite can be done. That is a heck of a lot more easy to prevent then getting grabbed on any stage and losing a stock. Combine that with the fact that is take almost zero effort apart from getting the grab itself and it become a heck of a lot easier to land then the waveshine infinite can ever be. But at the same time the payoff of a easier to do infinite becomes a lot bigger. Not really balance if you ask me. ( Heck even after a waveshine infinite on a wall you can actually tech the usmash so you live....)
Now it is one thing for a new player to the tourney scene to be hit by a waveshine infinite but getting grabbed every stock and that's dead is something else entirely. So instead of making worse players win vs pro's it more importantly means a player above someone can win even easier with Icy's simply because they mindgame you into getting grabbed more effectively then most players ranked under them.
So smasher86 would be starting his poul match vs some pro's and then vs some random n00bs >.>. He loses horribly vs the pro's cause he only relies on the infinite and he win's so easily vs the random n00bs. GG. You just did not get through pouls and descouraged some new players to quit smash entirely >.> I don't even wanna think about how someone's last stock gets ***** in crews cause they counterpick a wobbling Icy. (Heck how many ice climber players are there anyway in Europe??). This would not benefit the tournament scene we have going now and I don't think it will encourage new players to join as well.
I don't really see why you wanna have this allowed besides of personal gain. It doesn't add anything to the tournament scene we have now and if it wasn't talked so much about in the States european players wouldn't be doing it now. If it was up to me I would say let's act like it never was invented to begin with. Ice climbers have a lot more infinites that can be just as deadly but just require you to put in a bit more effort. So instead of making it harder we'd actually be making a infinite more easy then a 4 hit combo is now.... .
Like Helios mentioned there is only one really small part of a stage where a waveshine infinite can be done. That is a heck of a lot more easy to prevent then getting grabbed on any stage and losing a stock. Combine that with the fact that is take almost zero effort apart from getting the grab itself and it become a heck of a lot easier to land then the waveshine infinite can ever be. But at the same time the payoff of a easier to do infinite becomes a lot bigger. Not really balance if you ask me. ( Heck even after a waveshine infinite on a wall you can actually tech the usmash so you live....)
Now it is one thing for a new player to the tourney scene to be hit by a waveshine infinite but getting grabbed every stock and that's dead is something else entirely. So instead of making worse players win vs pro's it more importantly means a player above someone can win even easier with Icy's simply because they mindgame you into getting grabbed more effectively then most players ranked under them.
So smasher86 would be starting his poul match vs some pro's and then vs some random n00bs >.>. He loses horribly vs the pro's cause he only relies on the infinite and he win's so easily vs the random n00bs. GG. You just did not get through pouls and descouraged some new players to quit smash entirely >.> I don't even wanna think about how someone's last stock gets ***** in crews cause they counterpick a wobbling Icy. (Heck how many ice climber players are there anyway in Europe??). This would not benefit the tournament scene we have going now and I don't think it will encourage new players to join as well.
I don't really see why you wanna have this allowed besides of personal gain. It doesn't add anything to the tournament scene we have now and if it wasn't talked so much about in the States european players wouldn't be doing it now. If it was up to me I would say let's act like it never was invented to begin with. Ice climbers have a lot more infinites that can be just as deadly but just require you to put in a bit more effort.
So instead of making it harder we'd actually be making a infinite more easy then a 4 hit combo is now.... .Makenshi
Smash Apprentice
Ken come in in ros 4 , lot of player want play with you in europ
4 day is not lot of
Still I don´t see why anyone would like to stall a match with waveshine, just blaster and run away if you want to try stalling XD
Wobbling can be interuppted by many things, platformswitches on PS, FoD, cars on Onett, Mute city, not sure, but the shyguys on YS might be able to disrupt your timing (I cant confirm that), flying ships fireing on corneria, nana being far away, someone mashing to fast for popo to hit the opponent (have happened to me against Develish chart, the vid is even on youtubeXD), and another thing that improvising players might try: screaming or similar things, trying to make the opponent unconcentrated.
I´m sure there´s more ways but should a IC player tell the opponent the good/easier way to beating them?
How fun is it wobbling a worse opponent?, it´s much funnier chaingrabing them (often without DI) and make them think it´s unescapable^^
Dittomatches is kinda random (from many peoples oppinion) so if you face a better player using IC´s why not counterpick them or peach for the win?)
One thing, what more than the tournaments hosted by people adds to the tournament scene? It´s like wow, there´s one more combo, gotta try out that game and play it competivly. I´ve got friends to scared to play the game just because all of the techniques.
The part about personal gain, yes I might get helped with the technique, as I´m with Links bombhop and Fox DSHB, it just helps some more than other techniques, but it´s harder to perform than a DSHB, many IC players intend to switch characters when facing a peach (samus is hard too),since her Dsmash can ruin the strategy: getting the grab.
Another thing about the smash scene, right now does like everybody plays fox/falco, why not a more wide use of characters?, there´s some shiekplayers and peach/samus/CF, but the mayority is fox/falco, why disabling a strong technique on a char almost never used in tournaments?
Wobbling can be interuppted by many things, platformswitches on PS, FoD, cars on Onett, Mute city, not sure, but the shyguys on YS might be able to disrupt your timing (I cant confirm that), flying ships fireing on corneria, nana being far away, someone mashing to fast for popo to hit the opponent (have happened to me against Develish chart, the vid is even on youtubeXD), and another thing that improvising players might try: screaming or similar things, trying to make the opponent unconcentrated.
I´m sure there´s more ways but should a IC player tell the opponent the good/easier way to beating them?
How fun is it wobbling a worse opponent?, it´s much funnier chaingrabing them (often without DI) and make them think it´s unescapable^^
Dittomatches is kinda random (from many peoples oppinion) so if you face a better player using IC´s why not counterpick them or peach for the win?)
One thing, what more than the tournaments hosted by people adds to the tournament scene? It´s like wow, there´s one more combo, gotta try out that game and play it competivly. I´ve got friends to scared to play the game just because all of the techniques.
The part about personal gain, yes I might get helped with the technique, as I´m with Links bombhop and Fox DSHB, it just helps some more than other techniques, but it´s harder to perform than a DSHB, many IC players intend to switch characters when facing a peach (samus is hard too),since her Dsmash can ruin the strategy: getting the grab.
Another thing about the smash scene, right now does like everybody plays fox/falco, why not a more wide use of characters?, there´s some shiekplayers and peach/samus/CF, but the mayority is fox/falco, why disabling a strong technique on a char almost never used in tournaments?
better players> worse players..
i don't see the point.. waveshines have always existed... noone can win.. he has to put the opponent in the place, hit him with a shine, do a multilpe shine combo without doing mistakes... and sincerly there are DIs and techs (when it comes for the up smash perhaps) and even if he does it.. then his fingers will hurt ...
i don't see the point.. waveshines have always existed... noone can win.. he has to put the opponent in the place, hit him with a shine, do a multilpe shine combo without doing mistakes... and sincerly there are DIs and techs (when it comes for the up smash perhaps) and even if he does it.. then his fingers will hurt ...
Ryuker
Smash Lord
Cause it is unescapable . Now it were actually hard to do it would be something else but for specators this get's really really boring. Also it's not like your taking away all infinites cause Ice climbers got a lot more infinites that will still be allowed and that require you to actually put some effort into it. If you infite someone with the dair infinite no problem. But the wobbles one is too easy compared to the effort put into it. Just use the other one's -.-'.
so the dairchain is an infinite? gotta try that out on peach...
Then why hasn´t the Ice Climbers been considered as the top characters in the game?
offtopic: anyone else noticed a problem with the "Post quick reply" button?
Then why hasn´t the Ice Climbers been considered as the top characters in the game?
offtopic: anyone else noticed a problem with the "Post quick reply" button?
The Ice Climbers ARE concidered a top character in this game, and that's without Wobbling O_o
Serpit
Smash Journeyman
He was specifically askign why they were not considered as THE top character, not A top character. I personally don't really get why it is so hard to comprehend that Wobbling is banned.
It's an infinite attack combo that is, in comparison with waveshines, easy to use and can be started with a sinple grab. Now, Nana has to be in position and there must not be any hazards that can disrupt the grab, but on the usual tournament stages, there aren't. Now, Nana has to be right behind Popo, but that's the case with most IC combos, so Wobbling is not really different from them. And msot of the ways you listed that Wobbling can be disrupted are easy to apply to Waveshine combos too.
It's an infinite attack combo that is, in comparison with waveshines, easy to use and can be started with a sinple grab. Now, Nana has to be in position and there must not be any hazards that can disrupt the grab, but on the usual tournament stages, there aren't. Now, Nana has to be right behind Popo, but that's the case with most IC combos, so Wobbling is not really different from them. And msot of the ways you listed that Wobbling can be disrupted are easy to apply to Waveshine combos too.
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