The Professor Layton for Smash Ultimate support thread! See OP for where to meet us next after the boards close. Thank you for all your support!

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The actual reason why Rhythm Heaven is having issues getting in may be due to timing issues regarding a full collab with Tsunku, the composer. For that one, the planets practically need to align.

 

[Curious Villager]

Rythm Heaven's treatment in Smash has always been quite bizarre. If I recall, it was the only non veteran franchise with no character that got a Smash run enemy in Smash 3DS but then that was more or less all we got to see from the series until it just went up and join the spirit brigade with everything else in Ultimate.

Though there where apparently datamines suggesting that a character was planned back in Smash 4. Would be neat to see Sakurai revisit some of the cut characters and concepts he couldn't include in past titles. Much like he did with the Final Smash and 8 Player Smash and all.

 

[OnyanRings]

Rythm Heaven's treatment in Smash has always been quite bizarre. If I recall, it was the only non veteran franchise with no character that got a Smash run enemy in Smash 3DS but then that was more or less all we got to see from the series until it just went up and join the spirit brigade with everything else in Ultimate.

Though there where apparently datamines suggesting that a character was planned back in Smash 4. Would be neat to see Sakurai revisit some of the cut characters and concepts he couldn't include in past titles. Much like he did with the Final Smash and 8 Player Smash and all.

Tibby never got a spirit, i thought for sure they had something planned for him as a playable character.
Now that we know we're getting more first party characters, perhaps we'll see him make an appearance ?

Oh and i support the Big L for smash, he's a childhood icon of mine and his games got my mom into gaming, so i owe him a lot of fun memories.

 

[Curious Villager]

Tibby never got a spirit, i thought for sure they had something planned for him as a playable character.
Now that we know we're getting more first party characters, perhaps we'll see him make an appearance ?

Oh and i support the Big L for smash, he's a childhood icon of mine and his games got my mom into gaming, so i owe him a lot of fun memories.

After yesterday, I suppose its possible, we'll find out sooner or later I suppose.

I'm very happy to hear that, I've added you to the supporters list, welcome on board!

 

[fogbadge]

Well she did throw a bit of a wrench to the whole "third parties needing to be gaming icons" plan when she was initially announced so eh...

Nowadays Smash has grown a lot more lax in terms of who they let in though, which should hopefully only be a good thing for us I suppose.
Although some folks do still view Smash as this "video game hall of fame" and all....

"have to be a game icon" was a rule doomed to be broken, personally id rather she was never included

Because I feel like RH would be too obscure / niche to be a DLC character that people will buy. Only way will be if a RH game will release in 2020 or 2021 (and I don't expect that).

nothing is too obscure for smash, certainly not one that was consider for the last game

Rythm Heaven's treatment in Smash has always been quite bizarre. If I recall, it was the only non veteran franchise with no character that got a Smash run enemy in Smash 3DS but then that was more or less all we got to see from the series until it just went up and join the spirit brigade with everything else in Ultimate.

Though there where apparently datamines suggesting that a character was planned back in Smash 4. Would be neat to see Sakurai revisit some of the cut characters and concepts he couldn't include in past titles. Much like he did with the Final Smash and 8 Player Smash and all.

its always possible theres been a few character ideas hes revisited and plenty he never returned too

The actual reason why Rhythm Heaven is having issues getting in may be due to timing issues regarding a full collab with Tsunku, the composer. For that one, the planets practically need to align.

well theres already some tracks in the game and as far as i can tell thats the only part of the series they own

 

[amageish]

if they think nintendo adopted her theyll believe anything

I mean... Nintendo was the company that paid for Bayonetta 2/3 to exist. Obviously they don't own the IP, but she is more Nintendo-y then a lot of third parties in the game just because her games are Nintendo-produced and will remain that way for the forseeable future.

I feel like the general trend has been towards third party characters less being Nintendo-assoicated characters themselves, but instead characters representing Nintendo-assoicated companies. I don't think anyone can reasonably say that ATLUS and SNK don't have long histories of working with Nintendo, but the characters chosen to represent them aren't major parts of those histories.

Anyway... Hopefully Layton gets in this pass. The beginning with ARMS makes me wonder if this set will be focused on wrapping things up with the missing Nintendo cast, but the comment about delaying a meeting with another company implies we'll have at least one third party somewhere within the DLC...

 

[Curious Villager]

Level-5 is a company that is a bit far away from Namco if I'm not mistaken, although Capcom I think is even further away so travel probably isn't too much of an issue I think, COVID-19 aside.

Its hard to tell what their going for this time since each character is really there for their own reasons for the most part.
At least there isn't too much to connect between all the characters in the first fighters pass other than that most of them where third party, but even then they all are separate from each other in terms of ownerships and the audiences they appeal to.

But yeah, its probably not so much about the series themselves than the companies that own them and how well they get along with Nintendo.
Which probably makes Level-5's total absence a bit more curious I suppose, since they have had a good healthy history with Nintendo since the DS days and they still seem to get along just fine from what I can tell...

It might be interesting to see what set of mii costumes the ARMS pack will come with, I'm assuming it will probably mostly be like Banjo and Byleth's line up with two returning mii costumes, a premium mii outfit and maybe some additional surprises too...

 

[DutchPichu]

It might be interesting to see what set of mii costumes the ARMS pack will come with, I'm assuming it will probably mostly be like Banjo and Byleth's line up with two returning mii costumes, a premium mii outfit and maybe some additional surprises too...

I was thinking about this too. The Ubisoft Mii costumes in the Byleth pack could be changed to Level-5 Mii costumes in the ARMS pack. I can see them picking Layton and Jibanyan. I'm worried by the thought. It just feels weird Level-5 isn't involved ANYWHERE in this huge collaboration of gaming, especially being such good friends with Nintendo.

 

[Curious Villager]

I was thinking about this too. The Ubisoft Mii costumes in the Byleth pack could be changed to Level-5 Mii costumes in the ARMS pack. I can see them picking Layton and Jibanyan. I'm worried by the thought. It just feels weird Level-5 isn't involved ANYWHERE in this huge collaboration of gaming, especially being such good friends with Nintendo.

Oof yeah...

But if worse comes to worse, then I guess I'll probably rather take those mii costumes over watching Level-5 walking home empty handed...

If we go past halfway with still no spirit events or anything from them, or even past fighter 8 or 9, I might start to grow a bit more concerned for them if they will even be getting anything (that they own), but that's probably just me...

 

[fogbadge]

I mean... Nintendo was the company that paid for Bayonetta 2/3 to exist. Obviously they don't own the IP, but she is more Nintendo-y then a lot of third parties in the game just because her games are Nintendo-produced and will remain that way for the forseeable future.

I feel like the general trend has been towards third party characters less being Nintendo-assoicated characters themselves, but instead characters representing Nintendo-assoicated companies. I don't think anyone can reasonably say that ATLUS and SNK don't have long histories of working with Nintendo, but the characters chosen to represent them aren't major parts of those histories.

Anyway... Hopefully Layton gets in this pass. The beginning with ARMS makes me wonder if this set will be focused on wrapping things up with the missing Nintendo cast, but the comment about delaying a meeting with another company implies we'll have at least one third party somewhere within the DLC...

she should still be burned out of existence

i dont think there is a general trend with the thirs party characters its a huge mix

you couldnt fill in the missing nintendo cast in just 6 characters nto even a full roster

 

[amageish]

I was thinking about this too. The Ubisoft Mii costumes in the Byleth pack could be changed to Level-5 Mii costumes in the ARMS pack. I can see them picking Layton and Jibanyan. I'm worried by the thought. It just feels weird Level-5 isn't involved ANYWHERE in this huge collaboration of gaming, especially being such good friends with Nintendo.

I mean, Ubisoft already had spirits when that happened... I don't know what's going on with Level-5 and its complete lack of content thus far.

i dont think there is a general trend with the thirs party characters its a huge mix

you couldnt fill in the missing nintendo cast in just 6 characters nto even a full roster

I mean, given that we know Banjo was brought about by MineCraft on Switch starting discussions, I think you can pretty safely say the trend is "companies Nintendo already has some sort of connection to." That's just a broad category as Nintendo is constantly collaborating with everyone...

And you're right, I should have been more clear: filling in the Nintendo franchises that have narrowly missed being in the game before, given how Sakurai explicitly has said ARMS would/could have been in the game if the timing was better.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If Level-5 doesn't get anything, you'll simply need to increase fan support. As it is right now, the support for Layton is just kind of there, not really threatening anyone.

You simply can't fit everyone in the same game in one occasion and some concessions have to be made, that kind of thing happens sometimes.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, given that we know Banjo was brought about by MineCraft on Switch starting discussions, I think you can pretty safely say the trend is "companies Nintendo already has some sort of connection to." That's just a broad category as Nintendo is constantly collaborating with everyone...

And you're right, I should have been more clear: filling in the Nintendo franchises that have narrowly missed being in the game before, given how Sakurai explicitly has said ARMS would/could have been in the game if the timing was better.

dont forget banjo and kazooie were also very popular fan characters and were previously owned by nintendo the idea was probably kicking around long before minecraft.

hmm i think only rhythm paradise fits that category, i think the rest of the characters he considered and not returned to were all from series with other characters

 

[Curious Villager]

If Level-5 doesn't get anything, you'll simply need to increase fan support. As it is right now, the support for Layton is just kind of there, not really threatening anyone.

You simply can't fit everyone in the same game in one occasion and some concessions have to be made, that kind of thing happens sometimes.

>Fans of Level-5 games like Layton and Yo-kai Watch supported their characters enough to show up fairly well on a number of fan polls, especially during Smash 4, latter of which was shoved down everyone's throats in Japan around that time..
>Fans of certain other companies like Atlus and SNK being much quieter still got content anyway.

I don't think its as much a matter on how loud you are in terms of demand, at least fans have been loud enough for years that Level-5 themselves have acknowledged it on a number of occasions, even Sakurai himself being aware of it.

Its probably more a matter of priorities and if they can reach out to other companies for content. Level-5's been under such a dupe lately that its hard to tell what's going on over there in general. Hino was asked a few years back if he even approached Sakurai to see his content featured in the game so its probably more a matter of who makes the first move. We wouldn't have gotten Banjo in if Rare didn't take the first step, so it will probably have to be more up to Level-5 themselves to approach Nintendo/Sakurai I suppose...

It's such a shame that the Layton series always just happens to be under hiatus every time Smash is at its peak in terms of activity and vice versa...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

>Fans of Level-5 games like Layton and Yo-kai Watch supported their characters enough to show up fairly well on a number of fan polls, especially during Smash 4, latter of which was shoved down everyone's throats in Japan around that time..
>Fans of certain other companies like Atlus and SNK being much quieter got content anyway.

I don't think its as much a matter on how loud you are in terms of demand, at least fans have been loud enough for years that Level-5 themselves have acknowledged it on a number of occasions, even Sakurai himself being aware of it.

Its probably more a matter of priorities and if they can reach out to other companies for content. Level-5's been under such a dupe lately that its hard to tell what's going on over there in general. Hino was asked a few years back if he even approached Sakurai to see his content featured in the game so its probably more a matter of who makes the first move. We wouldn't have gotten Banjo in if Rare didn't take the first step, so it will probably have to be more up to Level-5 themselves to approach Nintendo/Sakurai I suppose...

It's such a shame that the Layton series always just happens to be under hiatus every time Smash is at its peak in terms of activity and vice versa...

If it's up to Level-5, it'll take 5 years before Hino even asks Sakurai, at this rate.

 

[Curious Villager]

If it's up to Level-5, it'll take 5 years before Hino even asks Sakurai, at this rate.

Nah they will get it on time for Japan, its the rest of the world that will have to wait 5 years just for the character to get localized.

 

[amageish]

dont forget banjo and kazooie were also very popular fan characters and were previously owned by nintendo the idea was probably kicking around long before minecraft.

Rate's studio head specifically said "Minecraft had paved the way for that relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft" when discussing how the deal was brokered. I'm sure the thought of Banjo in Smash had passed through Sakurai's head back during Melee even, but in terms of it actually happening, MineCraft was apparently important to bond Nintendo with Microsoft.

If Level-5 doesn't get anything, you'll simply need to increase fan support. As it is right now, the support for Layton is just kind of there, not really threatening anyone.

You simply can't fit everyone in the same game in one occasion and some concessions have to be made, that kind of thing happens sometimes.

Honestly, I'm not convinced fan demand matters all that much, expect when it's obnoxiously loud. The Smash fandom is diverse enough that basically every character has support and I feel like Nintendo/Sakurai are aware that whatever character they choose there is a community somewhere that will be happy, so they just go in character-first.

Nah they will get it on time for Japan, its the rest of the world that will have to wait 5 years just for the character to get localized.

Oh god. We'll exclusively getting realistic characters for the rest of DLC. I can't wait for the ARMS character to start with only 2 alts and then get the rest via free updates...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh god. We'll exclusively getting realistic characters for the rest of DLC. I can't wait for the ARMS character to start with only 2 alts and then get the rest via free updates...

I can live with that. I'd actually dread the prospect of waiting for a TF2 character not being completed until a decade at the very least.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh god. We'll exclusively getting realistic characters for the rest of DLC. I can't wait for the ARMS character to start with only 2 alts and then get the rest via free updates...

Yeeh, can't wait for Crash Bandicoot to make it in as well and then having to pay additional microtransactions just to use his alts.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeeh, can't wait for Crash Bandicoot to make it in as well and then having to pay additional microtransactions just to use his alts.

Nah, they'd just replace all real money with in-game currency, but only for buying Crash content.

Meanwhile you'd need to download Shantae's DLC in two parts or so, when Apple allows WayForward to release them periodically.

 

[amageish]

It's going to suck when the Ring Fit Trainer DLC sells out worldwide due to unexpected demand...

 

[Curious Villager]

I bet Paper Mario will be one of the first parties we'll be getting, but battling your opponents will be pointless as you gain nothing useful out of it, so you'll close the game and contemplate your life choices..

 

[fogbadge]

>Fans of certain other companies like Atlus and SNK being much quieter still got content anyway.

i their case it was probably more to do with, joker being popular enough on his own regardless of smash requests and sakurai just wanting terry

Rate's studio head specifically said "Minecraft had paved the way for that relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft" when discussing how the deal was brokered. I'm sure the thought of Banjo in Smash had passed through Sakurai's head back during Melee even, but in terms of it actually happening, MineCraft was apparently important to bond Nintendo with Microsoft.

im just saying there was probably multiple factors in their inclusion beyond how they were able to do it

I bet Paper Mario will be one of the first parties we'll be getting, but battling your opponents will be pointless as you gain nothing useful out of it, so you'll close the game and contemplate your life choices..

something happened between you and paper mario huh?

 

[Curious Villager]

i their case it was probably more to do with, joker being popular enough on his own regardless of smash requests and sakurai just wanting terry

Point stands then that being vocal alone isn't necessarily getting your character in, but other factors too.

something happened between you and paper mario huh?

Nope, we're just poking some fun at the dev's behind these characters, not the characters themselves. Like with Level-5 themselves and their shenanigans despite supporting them.

I'm cool with all of these characters so don't take it personally.

 

[fogbadge]

Point stands then that being vocal alone isn't necessarily getting your character in, but other factors too.


Nope, we're just poking some fun at the dev's behind these characters, not the characters themselves. Like with Level-5 themselves and their shenanigans despite supporting them.

I'm cool with all of these so don't take it personally.

indeed, theres so many possible reasons for a character to get, fan support is just one

ah right

 

[Curious Villager]

Anyway, to get a bit back on track.

I guess we should probably keep an eye out to whatever deals Level-5 does with Nintendo, although I'd imagine that them just putting games out on their consoles will be enough in terms of support. They got at least a few games out on Switch so I guess they got that base covered I suppose...

 

[DutchPichu]

I guess we should probably keep an eye out to whatever deals Level-5 does with Nintendo, although I'd imagine that them just putting games out on their consoles will be enough in terms of support. They got at least a few games out on Switch so I guess they got that base covered I suppose...

And even if they cross-over with a Nintendo series, it will may not be enough. Remember Mario + Rabbids? Ubisoft only got a few spirits and two Mii costumes.

 

[Curious Villager]

And even if they cross-over with a Nintendo series, it will may not be enough. Remember Mario + Rabbids? Ubisoft only got a few spirits and two Mii costumes.

Right, Ubisoft, I feel a bit bad for them as it seems that they have been trying to get one of their characters in for a while but keep getting friendzoned with trophies and spirits etc...

Maybe one day...

 

[fogbadge]

And even if they cross-over with a Nintendo series, it will may not be enough. Remember Mario + Rabbids? Ubisoft only got a few spirits and two Mii costumes.

theres a few companies whi made crossovers with out characters

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Shoot, I wanted to do a joke about Doom Slayer. Anywho...

Right, Ubisoft, I feel a bit bad for them as it seems that they have been trying to get one of their characters in for a while but keep getting friendzoned with trophies and spirits etc...

Maybe one day...

At this point I'm convinced that they're clueless about the fact that a third-party needs to contact Nintendo, not the other way around.

Heck, if the Doom Slayer rumors hold any water at all, serious talks need to happen, not friendly ribbing amongst drinking buddies.

Be assertive, not passive.

And even if they cross-over with a Nintendo series, it will may not be enough. Remember Mario + Rabbids? Ubisoft only got a few spirits and two Mii costumes.

Then there's the Warriors spin-offs (FE and Hyrule Warriors), which we got jacksquat from since Koei Tecmo has partial ownership of those games. Yet we just got Fatal Frame stuff instead.

 

[fogbadge]

Then there's the Warriors spin-offs (FE and Hyrule Warriors), which we got jacksquat from since Koei Tecmo has partial ownership of those games. Yet we just got Fatal Frame stuff instead.

like i said plenty of such companies

 

[amageish]

Nintendo's been around for long enough that most major-ish companies (that aren't actively Sony or Xbox or PC exclusive) have done at least one collab with them... The thing that makes me surprised Level-5's still been excluded is how most Level-5 properties are marketed as if they were first-parties internationally, with stuff like the UK Nintendo Characters Hub. Even if the optics are different in Japan, I'm kind of surprised nonetheless.

 

[Curious Villager]

Nintendo's been around for long enough that most major-ish companies (that aren't actively Sony or Xbox or PC exclusive) have done at least one collab with them... The thing that makes me surprised Level-5's still been excluded is how most Level-5 properties are marketed as if they were first-parties internationally, with stuff like the UK Nintendo Characters Hub. Even if the optics are different in Japan, I'm kind of surprised nonetheless.

Hino's had a good time with Nintendo ever since NoE taught him how to make a good game cover.
Which is probably why Level-5's been in particular good terms with the western branch of Nintendo.

In Japan they worked a lot more independently although the likes of Miyamoto and Shibata still are in good terms with them and their games.

In terms of Smash though and their current lack of content, I don't know, I suppose that might be more up to Sakurai, although if Nintendo is apparently still choosing the DLC then that might potentially mean good things for them.

The first fighter of the second pass is an ARMS character but I suppose its still early days, I guess we'll see sooner or later if they managed to strike a deal or not. Either that, or perhaps a Spirit event sometime down the line...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Even a Snack World spirit event would be fine with me, since at least that would be putting a foot in the door.

I mean, even ArcSys got something before they did, with Kunio.

 

[amageish]

Hino's had a good time with Nintendo ever since NoE taught him how to make a good game cover.

Ouch haha. Has Hino actually commented on the variety of regional Layton covers?

In terms of Smash though and their current lack of content, I don't know, I suppose that might be more up to Sakurai, although if Nintendo is apparently still choosing the DLC then that might potentially mean good things for them.

The first fighter of the second pass is an ARMS character but I suppose its still early days, I guess we'll see sooner or later if they managed to strike a deal or not. Either that, or perhaps a Spirit event sometime down the line...

Yeah... Granted, part of me would be surprised if Layton wasn't at least Mii-Costumed (if he's not playable), as he just works very easy as a swordsman... He has a famous hat, a very Mii-able face, and an iconicly simple body.

Granted, they also didn't add the Persona character who has guns for hands as a Mii Gunner when doing Persona costumes, so maybe I shouldn't be expecting Mii Costumes based on practicality of moveset...

Even a Snack World spirit event would be fine with me, since at least that would be putting a foot in the door.

I mean, even ArcSys got something before they did, with Kunio.

Yeah... Ubisoft, Koei and Marvelous all getting spirits before Level-5 isn't hugely surprising to me, but Arc System Works was... unexpected. They've done some stuff on Nintendo systems for sure, but not with most of their famous IPs before the recent barrage of Switch ports....

 

[Curious Villager]

Ouch haha. Has Hino actually commented on the variety of regional Layton covers?



Yeah... Granted, part of me would be surprised if Layton wasn't at least Mii-Costumed (if he's not playable), as he just works very easy as a swordsman... He has a famous hat, a very Mii-able face, and an iconicly simple body.

Granted, they also didn't add the Persona character who has guns for hands as a Mii Gunner when doing Persona costumes, so maybe I shouldn't be expecting Mii Costumes based on practicality of moveset...



Yeah... Ubisoft, Koei and Marvelous all getting spirits before Level-5 isn't hugely surprising to me, but Arc System Works was... unexpected. They've done some stuff on Nintendo systems for sure, but not with most of their famous IPs before the recent barrage of Switch ports....

If I recall, Hino was initially upset with what NoE did with the PAL cover of Curious Village by opting to focus more on the gameplay aspect over featuring the quirky characters front and center, tucking Hershel himself away at a small corner. I think the Japanese manual even had a bit of a focus on the celebrities that were involved with the game. Level-5 just wasn't that confident with the game itself at all I suppose, then again, it was the first IP they self published and could truly call their own, prior to that, they were more involved with games for other companies and publishers like Dragon Quest and Dark Cloud.

However, by pushing the game more as a brain age style puzzler proofed to turn the game into a huge success with the European market which was when NoA and Level-5 started to follow suit afterwards in terms of NoE's cover design choices for the series.


I mean, I suppose it would probably be the next best thing, I suppose that's probably one of the perks of Hershel having such a simple looking head...


We've been seeing a variety of different companies getting things in there outside of the playable bunch, including a number of indies. With a surprise Warframe spirit as well, who knows what else they've got in store for us...

 

[fogbadge]

weve had this conversation a few times havent we? lamenting about level-5 is being left out, but i wonder how would level-5 feel about a cameo without a playable appearance like a spirit board. i also wonder how long we'll all be waiting, i would think it would be bound to happen one day but you can never be sure with smash

 

[Curious Villager]

weve had this conversation a few times havent we? lamenting about level-5 is being left out, but i wonder how would level-5 feel about a cameo without a playable appearance like a spirit board. i also wonder how long we'll all be waiting, i would think it would be bound to happen one day but you can never be sure with smash

I don't know, I suppose if it happens, it happens for them. If they end up with empty hands they might end up personally contacting Nintendo for next time I think. (assuming they didn't do that for some reason despite being asked about it...)

Hino has wanted to see his IP's featured in Smash as far back as Brawl over a decade ago, back then it was a bit too late though. He even talked to Sakurai about it during that talkshow. Now wether Sakurai himself still remembers that event, who knows I suppose...

 

[fogbadge]

I don't know, I suppose if it happens, it happens for them. If they end up with empty hands they might end up personally contacting Nintendo for next time I think. (assuming they didn't do that for some reason despite being asked about it...)

Hino has wanted to see his IP's featured in Smash as far back as Brawl over a decade ago, back then it was a bit too late though. He even talked to Sakurai about it during that talkshow. Now wether Sakurai himself still remembers that event, who knows I suppose...

yeah its impossible to know what any of them are thinking, nothing to do but wait and speculate. maybe make some fan stuff

 

[amageish]

weve had this conversation a few times havent we? lamenting about level-5 is being left out, but i wonder how would level-5 feel about a cameo without a playable appearance like a spirit board. i also wonder how long we'll all be waiting, i would think it would be bound to happen one day but you can never be sure with smash

We're definitely good at having the "It is weird Level-5 isn't in the game" conversation haha... I think it's kind of justified by how many new companies keep on appearing in it without Level-5 getting anything though....

I don't imagine many companies would, like, reject a spirit set offer if Nintendo asked them. It's still getting into the biggest gaming crossover where a lot of eyes will be on your IP, even if it's just in a non-playable role.