The problem with Brawl: It's Community

[Iwan]

This is totally not true.

Yea, there are a lot of jerks who think they're pro or something, but i'd go as far to say that the majority of smashers will help out a "noob".

As long as the question or advice they want is asked in an intelligent way.

**EDIT**---By the way, I'm not saying pros are "jerks". I've met respected players at tournaments who were really nice guys. What i meant was that some people tend to think they're "The Sh**". But i'd say that's the minority of these boards.

 

[Morrigan]

OP is never coming back. Ever.

 

[Metal_Dave]

Lawlz@smashboards!

 

[SwampFox]

Ignorant? No. Ignorance is you not seeing the Play to Win mentality. Oh, and what's this? You've been around a long time? Join date April?

By the way, "Play to Win" is not popping up RECENTLY. If you don't like Smashboards, by all means, leave.

Right, my join date..cause I haven't been playing Smash since 64, I mean there is no way in heck that I even have multiple logins on these boards right? I must be some crazy nub.

Also there is a HUGE difference between playing to win, and using cruddy tactics to win. I agree with what someone else posted that those who use desperate tactics such as the one i mentioned will always be outshined by the real Smash players who take the time to learn their character and to WIN by doing whatever is in their power to get better.

Now there are a TON of people who posted relatively negative responses that I would love to touch base with since I passed out after making this topic, but i'm not sure i'll respond to everyone so let me CLEAR SOME THINGS UP.

This topic was made after hearing about the Ness/Lucas "lock" where they can basically be grabbed, beaten, released-regrabbed beaten, released grabbed beaten, oversmashed for the easy KO. This particular method to me seems like a shoddy way to play to win. There is no skill here, nothing the opponent playing the Ness/Lucas can do besides pick a different character. What caused me to make this post in the beginning is that there was an alarming number of people saying that this makes total sense, there is nothing wrong with this, and that if they play to win, then why not use a tactic like this? Because it's shallow, cheap, and makes you look like a d-bag, that's why.

This topic is not about people who edgeguard.

I am not trying to make low-tier characters any better, but until this was discovered these characters actually were "high tier" now they are pretty worthless.

This topic IS NOT about ice climber's chain grab because that takes skill and practice to use, unlike the Ness/Lucas lock which can easily be done as long as you have fingers.

I think there is a mix-up between PLAYING TO WIN and people who will do anything to win, knowing no shame in the process.

In my opinion the afore mentioned tactic in no way helps the game, nor does it make it better, it is a simple rinse and repeat tactic that the opponent can not truly avoid based on skill. (sure you can avoid being grabbed but it will undoubtedly happen more than once in a match, ESPECIALLY if the person you are playing vs. is trying to do this)

I personally viewed this mentality as a bad thing, the fact that a good chunk of the community will gladly welcome something as trashy as this with open arms, and then state that they'll be using it cause they play to win is indeed disturbing.

Yuna- you can call me a scrub all you want, but it is not that I dislike winning, or striving to win, it is what competitive ANYTHING is all about, however I do have a problem with how some people have voiced that they plan on winning, and will do anything to win. I myself see something wrong with that statement, but maybe it's just me.

I appreciate ALL of the responses so far, the good and the bad, keep it up, I appreciate hearing everyone's opinions.

 

[SiegKnight]

Swampfox mah boii~! WINNING is what ALL TRUE WARRIORS STRIVE FOR

 

[retro gamer 6]

Anyway, it's not the ''elitists'' that ruin the fun, it's people who keep on saying Brawl is a bad game...

good point. just because wavedashing isn't in there, or because brawl is not as fast as melee, many assume that brawl is not as good. THEY NEED TO GET A FEAKIN GRIP!!!!!! i am sick of people constantly comparing melee to brawl, saying malee was way better. wavedashing is out? live with it!!! brawl is slower than melee? get used to it!!! fox and marth aren't broken anymore? get a freaking grip!!! i'll admit that some techniques such as L-cancel and meteor cancel should have been kept. but aside from that, everything in brawl is BALANCED. sometimes i think that some players can only be the best if they use broken characters. brawl fixes that. if many don't like brawl because it doesn't meet their standards, then thats their problem. if these arguements keep up, i have a feeling that there will be a war here very soon. i only wish sakurai didn't screw up with melee so badly. if he didn't screw up, none of these comparings and arguements would be so common as it is these days.

 

[SwampFox]

Anyway, it's not the ''elitists'' that ruin the fun, it's people who keep on saying Brawl is a bad game...

good point. just because wavedashing isn't in there, or because brawl is not as fast as melee, many assume that brawl is not as good. THEY NEED TO GET A FEAKIN GRIP!!!!!! i am sick of people constantly comparing melee to brawl, saying malee was way better. wavedashing is out? live with it!!! brawl is slower than melee? get used to it!!! fox and marth aren't broken anymore? get a freaking grip!!! i'll admit that some techniques such as L-cancel and meteor cancel should have been kept. but aside from that, everything in brawl is BALANCED. sometimes i think that some players can only be the best if they use broken characters. brawl fixes that. if many don't like brawl because it doesn't meet their standards, then thats their problem. if these arguements keep up, i have a feeling that there will be a war here very soon. i only wish sakurai didn't screw up with melee so badly. if he didn't screw up, none of these comparings and arguements would be so common as it is these days.

My friend, how I wish you were right, but please, please I beg of you kind sir to go back and read more, you will surely know what my true gripe is about. For it is in fact against the very things you yourself love, balance. I do not come here to complain of the lack of wavedashing, nor do I plan on making any comparrisons between our fine game Brawl, and it's predecessor Melee.

I am in no way trying to hurt this game, honestly it's all I do anymore and I would love to see it strive and to flourish.

 

[Kio Iranez]

Yuna- you can call me a scrub all you want, but it is not that I dislike winning, or striving to win, it is what competitive ANYTHING is all about, however I do have a problem with how some people have voiced that they plan on winning, and will do anything to win. I myself see something wrong with that statement, but maybe it's just me.

How is there anything wrong with it? The people who will do anything to win at a video game are those who have fun in that manner. No one has THAT much to gain from, again, a video game that they'll ignore having fun. If you think it's wrong, you are the one restricting them.

Not everyone has to play one way. The game will flourish as long as people play it and it doesn't matter how they play it either.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Yuna- you can call me a scrub all you want, but it is not that I dislike winning, or striving to win, it is what competitive ANYTHING is all about, however I do have a problem with how some people have voiced that they plan on winning, and will do anything to win. I myself see something wrong with that statement, but maybe it's just me.

SwampFox...



Whenever you have something on the line, you will not do what it takes to win?




You are allowed to do ANYTHING that is not BANNED by tournament rules.

But, you won't because you see something wrong with this. What do you find cheap? Chain grabbing? I'll use that for an example.


Let's say you in a money match. The only way you can win is chain grabbing. Would you chain grab for $100? $1000? $10000000000......? What is the price of your "honor"? This thing that is only in your head. It is not defined by the game. Would you lose then? You COULD'VE won if you had chain throw'd. But you didn't. Therefore, you WANTED to lose. Therefore, you are NOT playing to win. Therefore, you are a scrub. Because you want to lose. (Rather, you don't want to win.)

 

[SwampFox]

Kio, I don't understand the point that you're making, nor do I know if you even read the things i've previously posted. This is referring to one specific thing for the most part.

I am not saying everyone has to play one way, but if a tactic is broken to the point that it eliminates other characters from competitive play, then it obviously isn't fun. Sure mashing the grab and attack button might be your idea of fun, and you may be having an excellent time doing it, but for some reason I doubt the guy that it is being done to feels the same way. I'm all about people having fun, but this is not fun.

I am referring to a very specific incident between Ness/Lucas, this is not about chaingrabbing in general.

I would not use this tactic to win a tournament. If for some reason I was going against a Ness or Lucas in the final bracket I would fight them as I normally would, as I would have before I knew about this. If this makes me a scrub, then so be it, but in the scenario you presented I would much rather be a Scrub than the guy who just won 10k by being a d-bag, and using a mash-grab tactic. I go to tournaments because I want to get better, and because I want people to notice I have gotten better. The afore mentioned tactic has nothing to do with skill, or the improvement of skills.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Kio, I don't understand the point that you're making, nor do I know if you even read the things i've previously posted. This is referring to one specific thing for the most part.

I am not saying everyone has to play one way, but if a tactic is broken to the point that it eliminates other characters from competitive play, then it obviously isn't fun. Sure mashing the grab and attack button might be your idea of fun, and you may be having an excellent time doing it, but for some reason I doubt the guy that it is being done to feels the same way. I'm all about people having fun, but this is not fun.

If it's so good, why doesn't the other guy do it?

 

[SwampFox]

Because Twin, it is character specific. I beg you to please read up on this, we may share the same opinion of it.

 

[Kio Iranez]

Let me rephrase. You want everyone to play the way they want to, with whatever character they want, and have the freedom to get good with them, yet you want people to stop playing with a certain tactic. That's contradictory.

You can call something trashy all you want, but unless the majority agrees with you, you're wrong. If it's not democracy, it's even less fair.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Because Twin, it is character specific. I beg you to please read up on this, we may share the same opinion of it.

Yeah, I went back and read.




Lucas/Ness have infinites? So what?

ICs have infinites that work on every character on every stage.
Snake has a grab infinite that work on characters above a certain height on most stages.

Half of the cast has infinite that work on every character on some stages.



So what?




edit:

Also, same thing as last time. You can only win using the Ness/Lucas thing. Do you want to lose or want to win? Something overly dramatic is on the line.

 

[Zankoku]

If it's character specific, can't it be avoided by switching characters? I mean, it's not an infinite, it only affects two characters, and it is your best chance of winning if the conditions are met.

I think the Marth chaingrab on Ness and Lucas is ********, but not because it's a "cheap tactic." Rather, I think so because Nintendo had actually made such a glaring oversight like this.

 

[SwampFox]

I guess I'll just give up for now, I wasn't aware that so many people had chaingrabs that resulted in a character becoming worthless in competitive play. Unless the previously mentioned chaingrabs are relatively hard to pull off then maybe I was too fast in judging this game, perhaps it won't be so stellar after all.

 

[Zankoku]

I guess I'll just give up for now, I wasn't aware that so many people had chaingrabs that resulted in a character becoming worthless in competitive play. Unless the previously mentioned chaingrabs are relatively hard to pull off then maybe I was too fast in judging this game, Perhaps it won't be so stellar after all.

In Melee, Sheik had a chaingrab on approximately half the cast, and most people were willing to use it. Doesn't mean they became worthless.

In both Melee and Brawl, Ice Climbers have infinites that work on any character as long as both ICs are still alive. Doesn't mean Ice Climbers are the best character in the game.

If all you can do is complain about "cheap things" like chaingrabs and assume it's an autoloss, then I'm sorry for you, and hope you find solace in a game that does not have unfair tricks (I already know that even common games like Tic-Tac-Toe, Checkers, and Chess are ruled out from this criteria ).

 

[Twin Dreams]

I can't find video or instructions for Ness or Lucas. Here's the ones I listed.


IC alternating grabs -- As soon as the opponent leaves IC 1, IC 2 grabs him. No way of escape.

F-throw --

Tilt forward so your other IC can walk forward a bit then grab.

D-throw --

Push down, then walk forward a bit and grab.

B-throw --

Tilt back and grab.


The timing differs slightly depending on which character you have and which character your throwing. Can be used to 999% on any character.



Snake --

Grab a character near the edge on anyone that is taller than ness. (If they are short, they can fast fall out) D-throw so they fall off the stage. Grab again.



Cast infinites --

Locks.

When an opponent is lying on the ground, much of the cast has a move (usually a jab) that can combo them across the stage. (Resulting in infinites with walls or deaths on stages with walk offs.)

 

[Zankoku]

Twin Dreams - the chaingrab lock on Ness and Lucas involves Marth grabbing the character and constantly grab attacking him, then regrabbing when he struggles out. Because of the way Brawl works, if you grab attack as quickly as possible it becomes impossible to struggle out with a jump. This works on Ness and Lucas because they don't slide out of range and have too much "struggle out" lag to escape.

 

[Yuna]

Stuff.

More stuff.

Yet more stuff.

Stop being such a scrub. No, really, you are being a real scrub. Don't like chaingrabbing and pseudo-infinites? Then don't play against people who use them.

Brawl is broken, live with it. If you don't like it, play another game. It's perfectly fine for you to handicap yourself by categorically refusing to utilize "cheap" tactics. It is not OK to whine because others do.

In no way should people using said tactics somehow lessen your or anyone else's enjoyment unless you're facing them. You're whining about the mere existence of people who use said tactics. That's not just being a scrub, that's being a particularly pathetic and sad scrub.

 

[Rebel581]

I also find it rather disturbing that the majority of the Smash community has this sort of ignorant "Play to win" mentality.

Where have you been? Play to win has been the mentality for ages.

Join Date: Apr 2008
Brawl FC: 0731-4407-2063
Location: N.J
Posts: 17

Oh... that explains that. I'll be nice. Here's your "new to the boards" helping of sirlin.net. Read them all before throwing a hissy fit please. If you don't agree with the articles or can't understand where he's coming from, leave these boards. You were not meant to play competitively, and this is not the right place for you to be.

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-2-mailbag/
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-3-not-playing-to-win/
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-0/

Most people have only read the first one. You should read them all.

And that's about all the kindness I have in me. If you're going to debate this more, leave the boards. You don't need to climb to the top peak if you don't want to. You don't need to play the game competitively.

 

[Bluebottel]

Rebel, you beat me to it!
Swampfox read all of it twice and come back posting. There should be some form of password embedded in Sirlins article, as a rite of passage to smashboards.

 

[Leahdybug]

Couldnt get through the srub portion sounds so elitist. Yes no one has to has to be nice but there is a surplus of arrogance on these boards. What happened to respect jsut becuase your good at a **** video game doesnt mean you get to talk to me like an *******. So yeha you dont need yto sugar coat anything but you should give a **** about how you come across. YOu cna be honest with out being demeaning which some people dude. This site sometimes makes me feel like a bunch of dorks pissing all over the internet.

However, with some of the harshness Ive gottin better with help from some good friends Ive made on here. Im not surprised at the lack of communication skills so I dont take things to hard but if I think someones talking to me like a jerk like some of my friends use to, I make them back off and they back off. Its a lil sad they have to be told.

Im not really sure he meant play to win as dont play to win. More of like the attitude that some people sport with play to win can be ridculous and I can agree.

And come on....really judging someone on post count...there are plenty of competent people on the boards who dont post often...

 

[orintemple]

Where have you been? Play to win has been the mentality for ages.



Oh... that explains that. I'll be nice. Here's your "new to the boards" helping of sirlin.net. Read them all before throwing a hissy fit please. If you don't agree with the articles or can't understand where he's coming from, leave these boards. You were not meant to play competitively, and this is not the right place for you to be.

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-2-mailbag/
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-3-not-playing-to-win/
http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-0/

Most people have only read the first one. You should read them all.

And that's about all the kindness I have in me. If you're going to debate this more, leave the boards. You don't need to climb to the top peak if you don't want to. You don't need to play the game competitively.

O nice, I didn't realize he had other things. Sirlin is always a good read.

Couldnt get through the srub portion sounds so elitist. Yes no one has to has to be nice but there is a surplus of arrogance on these boards. What happened to respect jsut becuase your good at a **** video game doesnt mean you get to talk to me like an *******. So yeha you dont need yto sugar coat anything but you should give a **** about how you come across. YOu cna be honest with out being demeaning which some people dude. This site sometimes makes me feel like a bunch of dorks pissing all over the internet.

However, with some of the harshness Ive gottin better with help from some good friends Ive made on here. Im not surprised at the lack of communication skills so I dont take things to hard but if I think someones talking to me like a jerk like some of my friends use to, I make them back off and they back off. Its a lil sad they have to be told.

Im not really sure he meant play to win as dont play to win. More of like the attitude that some people sport with play to win can be ridculous and I can agree.

And come on....really judging someone on post count...there are plenty of competent people on the boards who dont post often...

Learn to proofread your **** posts. Reading this is more challenging than it should be.

Playing to win makes you not a scrub. If you do not play to win, you are a scrub. If you have reservations about ANYTHING in gameplay, or think ANYTHING is "cheap" then you are not playing to win. Anything that is truly "cheap" or as we would call it, "imbalanced", always ends up banned by SBR and the general community.

And yes, many members of this community are **** heads, but playing to win does not make you arrogant. Just because you can't get past your chivalry in the game doesn't make Rebel581 or anyone else an arrogant *******. You can still be sportsman-like AND truly competitive at the same time.

 

[SwampFox]

I don't understand what causes people to look at the number of forum posts or the join date of a new user name and then immediately think they have the right to judge them, instantly thinking that they're better because they MUST have been around longer. This is one of the many negative things that I have mentioned before. (God forbid you actually use your brain to make a semi-intelligent response to the post, I mean it's so much easier to just use the fact that this user name is new as a way to avoid actually commenting)

I apologize for thinking that an infinite move has no place in tournament play, it obviously does, I see that now, I even think this game would be better if everyone had one. I mean why not, right?

However I still think that something is amiss because the responses are about 50/50 as far as the people who agree and disagree with me goes. Again for the third time I will tell you why I originally made this topic. It is because two characters were supposedly going to be made useless (for the most part) in competitive play..but what got to me besides this is the way SO MANY people welcomed this new tactic with open arms, and said that not only would they use it, but they'd use it cause they play to win. I'm obviously not the only person who has a problem with this since topics have been made on multiple boards regarding it..

I would also like to point out how amazing it is that such a large part of those posting negative feedback did so in an aggressive or derogatory fashion. I have not said anything mean, cruel, or slandering, yet I am met with much aggression and instant hate. I appreciate that Brawl Community, because you only proved my point .

 

[Lord Aether]

I don't understand what causes people to look at the number of forum posts or the join date of a new user name and then immediately think they have the right to judge them, instantly thinking that they're better because they MUST have been around longer. This is one of the many negative things that I have mentioned before. (God forbid you actually use your brain to make a semi-intelligent response to the post, I mean it's so much easier to just use the fact that this user name is new as a way to avoid actually commenting)

Because newer people tend to have a more limited mindset due to not having been around for a while? Not that I'm not new (I've been lurking since a bit before Brawl was released in Japan, but I didn't sign up till last week), but I have seen the mentality around here and have had the same mentality on other forums.

 

[~N9NE~]

I would also like to point out how amazing it is that such a large part of those posting negative feedback did so in an aggressive or derogatory fashion. I have not said anything mean, cruel, or slandering, yet I am met with much aggression and instant hate. I appreciate that Brawl Community, because you only proved my point .

It's not personally against you.

It's just that we see these type of threads every day, with the same topic, all the time, without fail. Keep facing the same thing again and again and people begin to get frustrated.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I'll get right to the point. I've been around these and others boards for some time now and have to say that the worst thing about Brawl, hands down, is you guys, me, the fan base. Now my gripe isn't the fact that most of us are jerks.. but most of us ARE jerks. I mean look at us..instead of helping newcomers, the majority of the time folks tell them they suck and to get better..well that's hardly a big issue but...
I also find it rather disturbing that the majority of the Smash community has this sort of ignorant "Play to win" mentality. This has been popping up more recently as of late because of in game finds that deem certain character's unusable in certain match ups or situations, and the community rather than trying to think of positive feedback or ways to help tend to reply with blunt, lackluster responses. It seems that a lot of the people who play Brawl are the type who enjoy exploitation in any way possible, and have no problem whatsoever in taking advantage of cheap tactics (always claiming that they play to win). So what is it that causes this community to act like a bunch of bratty kids, who only care about themselves and rarely about the game they play?
Now of course not everyone falls under this category, but most of you do. Don't you think that a better attitude towards making the game more enjoyable for everyone could help? Or should the Smash community remain how it is for the most part,Playing the role of the elitist whenever possible, and doing whatever it takes to win?

This is not directed at any individuals, and I don't mean to try to start a flame-war or to troll..but I can only read so much crap before I stop and think about the majority of the people who play this game.. and how much better it could likely be if we didn't all suck so much.

I'm one of those people who try to help out new people with honest answers to questions that I happen to know the answer to. By telling people that they are doing something wrong, it helps them to improve later on.

If you are referring to the Ness/Lucas thing, while there's many people who won't do the infinite in friendlies, it will happen in tournament. If there's money on the line, there's no reason not to do it. Play to win is a good attitude to take in a tournament if you are there to make money or to get better.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

I would also like to point out how amazing it is that such a large part of those posting negative feedback did so in an aggressive or derogatory fashion. I have not said anything mean, cruel, or slandering, yet I am met with much aggression and instant hate. I appreciate that Brawl Community, because you only proved my point .

Now my gripe isn't the fact that most of us are jerks.. but most of us ARE jerks.

So what is it that causes this community to act like a bunch of bratty kids,

but I can only read so much crap before I stop and think about the majority of the people who play this game

------------------

I don't understand what causes people to look at the number of forum posts or the join date of a new user name and then immediately think they have the right to judge them, instantly thinking that they're better because they MUST have been around longer.

Claims the person who is judging all the members of Smashboards on a hand full of elitest comments.

I agree that there are some trace amount of smart newcomers from 2008, but you cannot deny that there is a connection between 2008 newcomers and the lack of competitive gaming knowledge.

 

[orintemple]

Because newer people tend to have a more limited mindset due to not having been around for a while? Not that I'm not new (I've been lurking since a bit before Brawl was released in Japan, but I didn't sign up till last week), but I have seen the mentality around here and have had the same mentality on other forums.

To add to that, newer members are seen as less intelligent about the subject of Smash by older members because if they were really interesting in getting to know Smash, asking questions and inputting their info, they would have known about AND already have been a part of Smashboards. Anyone who is a true competitive player knows about Smashboards and is an active member of it, or was at some point if they quit playing.

The fact that someone didn't join until 2008 tells everyone else that the peron either:

A. Lurked around to check things out for a while but never got into Smash enough to post their own input or thoughts on things.

B. Actually ARE new to Smash and obviously do not have the knowledge an older member might.

C. Just jumped on the Brawl bandwagon. Maybe they played Melee casually but were never interested in getting good until they could get a fresh start with Brawl, and since they were casual players before are figured to be less intelligent than an older member who is likely competitive or at least interested enough in the game to state their opinions or input.

Most pro Melee players have had accounts here since probaly 2004, maybe '05, and many even before that. Anyone who is good at Brawl was PROBABLY good at Melee because they have the experience of a Smash game. The game may be completely different feeling, but it still helps to have Smash experience, especially in terms of knowing lingo and techniques.

Also, if you are a lurker people will not respect your knowledge. I get the feeling people don't understand that lurking is looked down upon in a grand sense of knowledge of the forum they are lurking.

 

[Sephiroth27]

I'll get right to the point. I've been around these and others boards for some time now and have to say that the worst thing about Brawl, hands down, is you guys, me, the fan base. Now my gripe isn't the fact that most of us are jerks.. but most of us ARE jerks. I mean look at us..instead of helping newcomers, the majority of the time folks tell them they suck and to get better..well that's hardly a big issue but...
I also find it rather disturbing that the majority of the Smash community has this sort of ignorant "Play to win" mentality. This has been popping up more recently as of late because of in game finds that deem certain character's unusable in certain match ups or situations, and the community rather than trying to think of positive feedback or ways to help tend to reply with blunt, lackluster responses. It seems that a lot of the people who play Brawl are the type who enjoy exploitation in any way possible, and have no problem whatsoever in taking advantage of cheap tactics (always claiming that they play to win). So what is it that causes this community to act like a bunch of bratty kids, who only care about themselves and rarely about the game they play?
Now of course not everyone falls under this category, but most of you do. Don't you think that a better attitude towards making the game more enjoyable for everyone could help? Or should the Smash community remain how it is for the most part,Playing the role of the elitist whenever possible, and doing whatever it takes to win?

This is not directed at any individuals, and I don't mean to try to start a flame-war or to troll..but I can only read so much crap before I stop and think about the majority of the people who play this game.. and how much better it could likely be if we didn't all suck so much.

*yawn*

OH!

Hmm?

 

[SwampFox]

Plenty of people use the forums as a source of information without feeling the need to make posts like many do about arbitrary things in their every day lives. Some of these people also don't feel the need to make topics about every question that arises about the game, and may even prefer to solve problems or questions that arise on their own. I'm sure that these people are also fine at the game. As large as a fanbase as Smash Brothers has, I don't think assumptions should be made. Especially not based on someone who remade their login because their Main changed. Anyhow, i'm thinking about giving up for now, this is actually starting to make me frustrated and I almost wish I could just sit some of you down and explain things in an easier fashion..but since that isn't going to happen, i'll just go and play some Brawl. Peace.

 

[Sliq]

"I think you suck, you fail at life, and you have no business playing this game. Get out of it, you horrible horrible loser. It's nothing personal, I'm just being honest."

Welcome to the internet! If you look to your left you'll see people having sex with animals, if you look to the right you'll see people eating shit, and if you tilt your head upwards, you'll see a gaping void where GOD should be, but isn't. Enjoy your stay!

Couldnt get through the srub portion sounds so elitist. Yes no one has to has to be nice but there is a surplus of arrogance on these boards. What happened to respect jsut becuase your good at a **** video game doesnt mean you get to talk to me like an *******. So yeha you dont need yto sugar coat anything but you should give a **** about how you come across. YOu cna be honest with out being demeaning which some people dude. This site sometimes makes me feel like a bunch of dorks pissing all over the internet.

We don't flame you for being bad. We flame you for being too lazy and stupid to lurk on the boards, learning basic concepts, before you come on the boards inquiring about **** that is common knowledge to everyone with eyes and the ability to read.

Laziness and stupidity should never be tolerated. Ignorance is a different matter, but when you have ALL THE INFORMATION at your fingertips, there is no excuse for being a complete shithead.

Average Smashboard' user with an '08 join date:

Average Smashboards user upon discovering '08 user failure:

I don't understand what causes people to look at the number of forum posts or the join date of a new user name and then immediately think they have the right to judge them, instantly thinking that they're better because they MUST have been around longer. This is one of the many negative things that I have mentioned before. (God forbid you actually use your brain to make a semi-intelligent response to the post, I mean it's so much easier to just use the fact that this user name is new as a way to avoid actually commenting).

There is generally an indirect relationship to the join date of a user and their knowledge of the game and the community. Regardless of whether or not you have an older account, no one knows who you are, leading us to believe you never regularly attended tournaments, which is basically a pre-requisite to posting about any sort of tactical discussion in a knowledgable fashion.

I think that the throw thing is lame. I also think Falco's chaingrab to spike and D3's chain grab to gimp against characters like Ganon and Bowser are lame, too. But what I don't do about it is make a post crying about it. That would make me a tool.

Also, about people being too mean on the internet, go through and look at my posts. I'd say half are me yelling at noobs for being ********. Now go to the following link:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164751

Good thing I hate people bad at this game and don't want them to get better, as opposed to hating lazy *******.

Your **** has just been thouroughly ruined. GG NO RE.

 

[Zankoku]

Plenty of people use the forums as a source of information without feeling the need to make posts like many do about arbitrary things in their every day lives. Some of these people also don't feel the need to make topics about every question that arises about the game, and may even prefer to solve problems or questions that arise on their own. I'm sure that these people are also fine at the game. As large as a fanbase as Smash Brothers has, I don't think assumptions should be made. Especially not based on someone who remade their login because their Main changed. Anyhow, i'm thinking about giving up for now, this is actually starting to make me frustrated and I almost wish I could just sit some of you down and explain things in an easier fashion..but since that isn't going to happen, i'll just go and play some Brawl. Peace.

So you're losing to logic in your arguments and you don't want to lose any more, so you'll no longer argue. See? You're learning to play to win already.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

As a Lucas main, I can sort of see where SwampFox is coming from as far as the "how far is too far?" argument on playing to win. (DISCLAIMER: I do not necessarily agree with his opinion(s). If you're going to flame, flame after reading my whole post.) Granted, I am mostly a casual player, but were I at a tournament and had an infinite pulled on me, needless to say I'd be slightly peeved, especially since there's not a thing I can do about it once caught. On the other hand, a) I'm far too apathetic/lazy to care and b) I won't pitch a fit over the issue--I have better things to do with my time. And by going to an official tournament (READ: Not hosted by your local high school.), you're more or less signing away your right to complain about any tactic. So if you're going to call infinites cheap and don't want them used on you, then don't plan on going to any official tournaments.

Moving on, someone (was it SwampFox again? <_>) had an issue with the reception that the more recent joiners have received. I'm one of them, and for what it's worth I'll freely admit that I'm rather often dissuaded from posting for fear of being wrong and therefore flamed along the lines of "gtfo n00b, lurk moar, lurn2play," or otherwise just feeling a combination of being unwelcome/unnoticed, no doubt helped by my tiny post count. (Anyone who says that post count doesn't matter is kidding themselves IMO--given the same post content, would you pay more heed to one with 5 or 500 posts backing it? Would you first open a thread made by SamuraiPanda or random user #5739?) But I'm going off on a tangent. Whether or not it actually exists, there is definitely an air of elitism around these boards in general, possibly as a byproduct of the competitive group the boards cater to (DISCLAIMER THE SECOND: I am not accusing any user(s) of elitism.), and when a veteran explains to a new user why their old ways of playing are bad in terms and tones that another veteran would be used to, the newbie, unused to the boards in general, can easily misinterpret the veteran as lording his/her/its authority, which leads to general discontent, etc.

I forgot what my main point was forever ago, and I have no proposed solution (if there even is one) to the problems I listed, but I hope it helps shed some light on the situation from a newbie casual's point of view.

 

[~N9NE~]

The truth is that no matter what anyone says, everyone will play the way they like.

And that's how it should be. And that's the way it will always be.

/thread.

 

[Micahc]

I stopped reading when he said most smashers have a "play to win" attitude.

Well heck yeah, other wise the the game wouldn't be competative.

 

[Rebel581]

Moving on, someone (was it SwampFox again? <_>) had an issue with the reception that the more recent joiners have received. I'm one of them, and for what it's worth I'll freely admit that I'm rather often dissuaded from posting for fear of being wrong and therefore flamed along the lines of "gtfo n00b, lurk moar, lurn2play," or otherwise just feeling a combination of being unwelcome/unnoticed, no doubt helped by my tiny post count.

Just post and be wrong. People will correct you, you'll learn more about the game, and you'll have a higher post count on top of that.

And to Leahdybug about not getting through the scrub portion, LOL! Sirlin is probably the person who puts it the most nicely out of anyone I've ever seen talk about playing to win. If you can't make it through that article, then you're a scrub and the type of scrub that shouldn't bother playing competitively. Not the type of scrub that will learn what they're doing wrong and change.

 

[Zodiac]

I'll get right to the point. I've been around these and others boards for some time now and have to say that the worst thing about Brawl, hands down, is you guys, me, the fan base. Now my gripe isn't the fact that most of us are jerks.. but most of us ARE jerks. I mean look at us..instead of helping newcomers, the majority of the time folks tell them they suck and to get better..well that's hardly a big issue but...

First off, The majority of the jerks around here are made up of scrubs that came rushing to smashboards when the brawl hype was at its peak , granted there are some that were here already, however I garuntee that anyone that has been in this community before the brawl hype will tell you that the we were very helpful to newcomers. Almost every jerk, as you refer to them on here is a scrub that signed on during the brawl hype.

I also find it rather disturbing that the majority of the Smash community has this sort of ignorant "Play to win" mentality. This has been popping up more recently as of late because of in game finds that deem certain character's unusable in certain match ups or situations, and the community rather than trying to think of positive feedback or ways to help tend to reply with blunt, lackluster responses.

Ignorant? There are two reasons a person plays smash, because its fun and because they want to win, That is the ONLY mentality to have, if you go into a tournament and dont care if you win, you probably wouldnt have entered the tournament in the first place and are probably a casual player, as you can plainly see smashboards is filled the kind of player that plays smash because its fun and because they want to win. Thats why you don't see a lot of people that don't have that mentality. As for certain characters being unusable in tournaments and people not trying to find solutions for it, you can thank the "All-mighty never wrong Tier list" for that. A ray of hope, recently a lot of people have been taking the low tier characters and working out their kinks.(In melee)

It seems that a lot of the people who play Brawl are the type who enjoy exploitation in any way possible, and have no problem whatsoever in taking advantage of cheap tactics (always claiming that they play to win). So what is it that causes this community to act like a bunch of bratty kids, who only care about themselves and rarely about the game they play?

1.Brawl is ALL ABOUT CHEAP TACTICS. (And a tiny bit of skill/mindgames)
2.Most people who play brawl regularly are scrubs, Period.
3. Come over to any forums that aren't crawling with scrubs(Anything other then the brawl forums) and you'll see a much nicer side of this community.

Now of course not everyone falls under this category, but most of you do. Don't you think that a better attitude towards making the game more enjoyable for everyone could help? Or should the Smash community remain how it is for the most part,Playing the role of the elitist whenever possible, and doing whatever it takes to win?

The reason a lot of smashers don't have a good attitude towards brawl is because its a downgrade from melee, everything that made a lot of people love melee, was taken away, you'll find better attitudes somewhere that IS NOT INFESTED WITH SCRUBS, the scrubs from the brawl hype still haven't completely gone away, when that happens(If it happens) you'll find smashboards a much more enjoyable community. Playing the role of elitist? That would be playing the role of Scrubs. to be an elitist you have to be a pro and a jerk. Most smashers are NOT ELITIST, once again the scrubs that invaded during the brawl hype are being confused with the actual community here.

This is not directed at any individuals, and I don't mean to try to start a flame-war or to troll..but I can only read so much crap before I stop and think about the majority of the people who play this game.. and how much better it could likely be if we didn't all suck so much.

regrettably I share the same view, but when you say "the majority of people who play this game" Thats brawl we're talking about because again, the scrubs that invaded are still not gone. And they give the smash community a BAD NAME.

Im not saying that the brawl forums are nothing but housing for scrubs, but you all know(Those who were here to see it) that the scrubs came in force when the brawl hype reached its peak. And that the way they depicted the community was completely false.

The problem your referring to is almost entirely tied exclusively to brawl.

 

[Yuna]

I don't understand what causes people to look at the number of forum posts or the join date of a new user name and then immediately think they have the right to judge them, instantly thinking that they're better because they MUST have been around longer. This is one of the many negative things that I have mentioned before. (God forbid you actually use your brain to make a semi-intelligent response to the post, I mean it's so much easier to just use the fact that this user name is new as a way to avoid actually commenting)

<snipped for whining>

We don't look down upon you for having a low post count/recent join date. We look down upon you for your stupid posts.

This is as far as I'm prepared to care about people's post counts/join dates:
* Recent join date and high post count (there once was this guy who signed up 8 months ago and had close to 2500 posts... this once was two months or so ago) - Probably a spammer, doesn't have much important things to say (this is a judgment I will only pass if I first see him posting something tremendously stupid)
* Recent join date and low post count - Probably new to the forum/Smash/Competitive gaming - But I could care less if he/she posted intelligently
* Recent join date and low post count but brilliant posting - For the love of puppies, we need more of these people!
* Ancient join date and/or high post count, yet they post something profoundly stupid - How the hell did you survive here this long and why haven't I beaten you senseless with my multi-talented razor-sharp tongue yet?!

There's also a huge difference in being wrong and in being stupid. It's OK to be wrong. It's not OK to be stupid.

So, really, what we value the most here on Smashboards is intelligence. What we hate the most is stupidity. Don't want to get flame? Don't be stupid.