Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[DrizzyDrew]

I'm definitely gonna be at my local TRU atleast 2 hours early, can't leave anything up to chance...

Dam. I was thinking of getting there when the store opens, I hope there is not a line just to preorder this thing lol

 

[Gunla]

Who likes prefixes?

Because we've got them!

 

[FullMoon]

No better way to make people notice those prefixes than making they clash with literally everything else.

 

[Flamemaster96]

Greninja vs. Sonic MU anyone?

 

[David Galanos]

Greninja vs. Sonic MU anyone?

One tip I have in the sonic matchup is to space fairs and use shuriken as a zoning/camping tool a lot less. Side b will just get you punished because of it's priority. You can use shuriken if they're like pretty far away but generally it's not a good idea. Overall you have to play reactive and patient against sonic, with any character

 

[Makani]

Dam. I was thinking of getting there when the store opens, I hope there is not a line just to preorder this thing lol

If you want an exclusive amiibo you have to go balls-to-the-wall hardcore... The agony i've seen people go through for these things is insane.

 

[David Galanos]

<message hydropumped>

 

[Kace Mono]

Guys! Which one for a profile pic? :0 View attachment 48909 Or View attachment 48910

Definetly the first one.

 

[Ludiloco]

Tonight I think I played the best I ever have with my Greninja. I've really leveled up when it comes to patience and it's really satisfying to hear compliments on my game

Now we just have to replicate this in a tournament setting and we're good to go. Had some absolutely filthy gimps on my friend's Diddy tonight when normally I couldn't beat him at all (I realize the patch helped, but Diddy still beats us in neutral and the MU is still even if not slightly in his favor), and I'm starting to overcome my boogeyman Rosalina.

I just got so tired of investing time and money to go to tournaments and then lose patience and lose to people I shouldn't. It's really refreshing to look at the game from a new perspective and realize I was playing the character in a way that wasn't productive.

Also, you all will be happy to know I'm done with pink Greninja. I'm trying to decide between the dark purple and black skins lol

 

[KERO]

Dark purple is best Greninja.

Also, yeah, patience is so important when playing Greninja. It's definitely the most important aspect mentally when using him. Always gotta have a calm outlook on the situation and never let yourself get impatient or frustrated, however difficult that may be. One thing I need to work on is letting go of mistakes (learning from them and not getting as frustrated), but I'm getting better at it.

In other news, took first at a tourney this weekend, the first one in a long time actually haha, so that was pretty fun. Managed to not drop a game as well, so that was pretty cool (I did go Falcon for one game, sorry guys. It was Kongo 64). Got some new insight into the Luma MU, and I realized Mario wasn't as bad as I made it out to be in my head (didn't want to make a fuss until I was sure it wasn't just me struggling with Mario silliness).

 

[SmashRacer]

Dark purple is best Greninja.

Also, yeah, patience is so important when playing Greninja. It's definitely the most important aspect mentally when using him. Always gotta have a calm outlook on the situation and never let yourself get impatient or frustrated, however difficult that may be. One thing I need to work on it letting go of mistakes (learning from then and not getting as frustrated), but I'm getting better at it.

In other news, took first at a tourney this weekend, the first one in a long time actually haha, so that was pretty fun. Managed to not drop a game as well, so that was pretty cool (I did go Falcon for one game, sorry guys. It was Kongo 64). Got some new insight into the Luma MU, and I realized Mario wasn't as bad as I made it out to be in my head (didn't want to make a fuss until I was sure it wasn't just me struggling with Mario silliness).

That's pretty amazing. Congrats

And yeah, I really start liking the Dark Purple palette. Looks pretty cool

 

[David Galanos]

Dark purple is best Greninja.

Also, yeah, patience is so important when playing Greninja. It's definitely the most important aspect mentally when using him. Always gotta have a calm outlook on the situation and never let yourself get impatient or frustrated, however difficult that may be. One thing I need to work on is letting go of mistakes (learning from them and not getting as frustrated), but I'm getting better at it.

In other news, took first at a tourney this weekend, the first one in a long time actually haha, so that was pretty fun. Managed to not drop a game as well, so that was pretty cool (I did go Falcon for one game, sorry guys. It was Kongo 64). Got some new insight into the Luma MU, and I realized Mario wasn't as bad as I made it out to be in my head (didn't want to make a fuss until I was sure it wasn't just me struggling with Mario silliness).

Nice Job dude. I agree with Mario. I used to think the matchup was bad but I've come to see that he's really not that bad at all. Honestly there's no matchup I feel Greninja can't handle, even sheik or fox, although with certain players it can be tough.

 

[Funkermonster]

But I thought only real mean wore pink.....

Lol I abandoned my original palette swap too. Used to like Green Greninja the most, but now I'm being lured towards Red Greninja or Default. Red and Blue are my favorite colors lol.

Alas though, last weekend at Sandstorm I didn't do so hot with Greninja, and began to rely more on my for the majority of the time. I was able to beat all but one person in my pool on day 1 using them both 50/50, Somehow, I either begin to feel that I'm actually only doing worse with Greninja overtime or that I've hit a peak and am not improving at all. I did good against most people in friendlies, but in the actual competition I really struggled with Ninja and some peoplein friendlies beat me pretty badly and kept winning the neutral game. I keep trying to space with Fairs/Bairs and poke with shurikens, but somehow my opponents get the drop on me anyway and I can't get a few hits n. There was this really good Ike player who trashed me every time I played him even when I was Mega Man, although he kinda bodied a lot of people, not just me. There was this Pikachu I also met in friendlies, I only fought him once but it wassuper annoying and while it was a close set, I lost. The more I play against , the more I begin to hate his guts, he's basically become my arch-nemesis and I don't know the matchup against him very well with anyone I play as. All I know is that he's light and has issues killing, but my lack of knowledge on him ends up making an uphill battle for me almost every time I meet one. I didn't have trouble with him initially and didn't really think very highly of him at first, but I've also been coming across more players lately and fighting him has been kinda tough, haven't fought him enough times so I don't have too much experience the MU as Greninja, and Mega Man is considered to be at a slight disadvantage against him since he's got scary combos once he gets in and can destroy Mega's recovery if he guesses it. He hasn't really become a true threat to me just yet like Pikachu but I'm still keeping an eye out for him, and it looks like my secondary won't really help a lot with him.

And this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreHbm-rAOY
This is probably the most embarassing tourney set I've ever been in so far, I have no idea what wrong here but I got trashed and could barely do a thing.. I was fighting a mega man, who happens to be my secondary and a matchup I am told Greninja would win by a little bit. And yet, he kept me out for almost the entire time and I had a lot of trouble approaching him and even getting some hits in. After the match, I got rid of Shifting Shuriken against MM since the Metal Blades and Leaf Shield wouldn't be stopped by it, and I think picking it was a bad idea. Other than that, I keep rewatching this set but I am tunnel-visioned still can't figure out what I could've done instead without this match ending the way it did. I've beaten other Mega Men before but this is one who actually know what he was doing, and I didn't. To think I would know how to fight against one of my own characters And during the video, one of the commentators states in his honest opinion that he felt my strongest character is my Mega Man, but thougth I'd pick Greninja because I wanted to avoid doing an MM ditto (and he's right, I hate the MM ditto so much).

I think that's what a lot of people in my region are starting to think too, I've overall done better in the national with my seconary than the character I actually main, and I find it kinda strange. I've been playing Greninja since the game came out here on 3DS, and yet I've just started playing Mega Man in mid-December and I didn't even originally plan on playing him, he grew on me by accident lol

Idk, I think I'm just having some off days with or something. Its been harder and harder to win with him lately and I feel like I've hit a plateau with him.

 

[Ludiloco]

It's just some off days man, it happens to all of us. I think all your problems would be fixed just with some more experience in the MU, just because ninja should win doesn't mean he will if you don't know why he wins (not saying you don't, saying maybe you didn't implement it and that's why you lost).

One thing I absolutely love about spending so much time on Greninja is that many of the top players in my state invested a ton of time into characters that got nerfed super hard a couple weeks ago, while ninja has been the same since the Wii U version came out.

In the time that I've spent working on Ninja one of the top players in MI has switched mains 3-4 times. It feels good to 100% know my gameplan in every MU while others have to relearn everything every time they switch characters. Character devotion pays off sometimes!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Can we have Greninja too?

 

[Greninja'd]

Can we have Greninja too?

I really want to play that game.

 

[KERO]

Forgive me as I'm writing this while I'm kind of tired, but I'll go ahead and try to point out the issues you were having. Watching the first game, I feel your biggest problem was Shifting Shuriken more than anything else. Playing against Mega Man is almost entirely about spacing right outside of his reach, which you were doing well at first except that he could freely use Metal Blade due to Shifting Shuriken. Gotta also constantly be aware of Mega Man's own abilities; Greninja can never afford to be surprised by something since that can greatly mess up any established strategy you may initially have had. I also felt, near the end, you were trying to approach way too hard with Greninja. Other than that, though, had you had regular Shuriken, I feel that you could have taken first game. Regular shuriken allows you to better control Metal Blade (Crash Bomber should be of no issue considering you can short hop over it or shield), which can force Mega Man to approach once you have established that lead. Once Mega Man begins approaching, though, be wary of both Metal Blade and jab as it's harder to shuriken the former, and the latter cuts through Shuriken (unless you charge it fully, which can force him into a shield or jump, allowing for you to close in for possible punishment or at least force a mid-range game). Another issue I saw come up was repeated back-rolls away from Mega Man if he avoided an attack up close. Greninja's rolls are... okay, but I've come to find that since his movement in general is so fantastic, running away and shielding or simply jumping away and fastfalling are better at avoid possible punishments and allow for more flexibility if you see them attempting to punish your getaway tactic. I also found that you tried to get away from the ledge a couple times with Hydro Pump, but you did it quite a bit too high up, allowing him to grab you and punish it. If you want to use Hydro Pump to mix up your landings, you definitely want one or both pumps going toward the stage so that you can land faster and are harder to react to (and sometimes, you can try and go right over their heads if they don't expect it, allowing you to land completely safely against most characters). As for Leaf Shield or w/e (never played a Mega Man game haha), I honestly don't have much advice against that as the Mega Man mains I've played prefer the other two customs. While it does allow him to approach better, just full charge Shuriken from far away and see how he reacts. If you see him letting go of it, let go and shield. Otherwise, just let it go. He can either A, jump over it, B shield, or C. throw the Leaf Shield. No matter what option he picks, the Leaf Shield will be gone by the time he can do much to you (If he tries a, I'd suggest running under him if you can or trying to catch his landing with a jab). I could be wrong on this one, but unfortunately that's the one part of Mega Man I'm not too familiar with.

As for the second game, I just felt you got impatient, especially toward the end. You kept trying to approach him really hard and also began rolling a lot. A couple things that stood out to me is that you definitely needed to use Full charged Shuriken more. Mega Man doesn't have much he can really do to it besides shielding or putting himself in the air (he doesn't have the best air landing options vs Greninja), and in fact, I believe that Greninja slightly outcamps Mega Man. When Mega Man is in the air, track him, and shield as he comes close. We can punish all of his aerials with jab and all but Nair with grab (this includes downward Metal Blade). With grab, you just have to use it the moment the shield gets hit in most cases (with Metal Blade, it depends, but generally once the shield takes the second hit, grab can safely come out and grab him). Couple other pieces of advice: in order to better avoid Bair kills, fast fall just out of range of where Mega Man can short hop and then up-B toward the ledge. Recovering low makes it much harder for him to score that Bair kill. Also, when you can, save your double jump for stalling purposes in order to better mix-up your recovery. Lastly, in addition to what I said earlier about not using rolls as much, runaway pivot grab is excellent to try and punish those trying to read your rolls for the most part (it's also excellent as a "get away from me" move in general). Although, in Mega Man's case, I can't exactly advise it due to Fsmash. Just something I'd thought I'd bring up.

Hope this was of any help haha. Apologies if this is just more of the same thing, though. Sorry to hear that you had an off-day. As Ludiloco said, we all have them, but I suppose they can be even more detrimental in our case cause playing Greninja really does demand the very best of us haha... *glares at 9th place a few week ago*

 

[Ludiloco]

Dude I missed bracket at a regional tournament a few weeks ago. #1 my pool was stacked and a PR player also didn't make it out, and #2 I played like absolute butt and could've made it had I just won two more games. I had a 1-0 lead in my set against the 2 seed and he SDed game two... I lost the set.

Probably the worst feeling I've ever experienced in competitive smash. The PR player in my pool let the TO absolutely have it over the pool we were in (he was placed with one of his good friends who is also a PR candidate, they play together all the time), but it was so hard not to feel bad even with that. It's what inspired me to really level up with my patience and Greninja mobility, and already I feel ten times more dangerous than I ever have.

 

[Kevandre]

2 and a half hours early to Toys R Us this morning and I was #9 in line out of 10. Got that preorder in, so stoked!

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

2 and a half hours early to Toys R Us this morning and I was #9 in line out of 10. Got that preorder in, so stoked!

Congrats! I went

...

they were all gone by the time I got there.

 

[Gunla]

I went in looking for Greninja, and I got Pac-Man.

That's something, at least!

2 and a half hours early to Toys R Us this morning and I was #9 in line out of 10. Got that preorder in, so stoked!

Congrats!

 

[David Galanos]

I could ask this in another thread but, what goes through your guys heads/what do you do when you get the lead. Over and over I see myself get killed right after I get the stock lead. Sometimes it's literally right after they spawn, and sometimes it's after I only get about 3-10 percent. I know Greninja is a character that can benefit from the lead and this is a personal problem I have so what do you guys immediately do and what is your plan once you get the stock lead?

 

[Ludiloco]

Sit back, let the opponent come to me, punish mistakes.

Thinking too hard about gravy damage will cause you to lose your stock immediately. Just relax and take what you can.

 

[David Galanos]

Sit back, let the opponent come to me, punish mistakes.

Thinking too hard about gravy damage will cause you to lose your stock immediately. Just relax and take what you can.

thanks, thats like exactly what i do, try to get the percent lol

 

[KERO]

Basically what Ludiloco said. Become extremely aware of their movements. You need to be comfortable enough with Greninja that your attention has to be solely focused on what your opponent is doing. Know when you can punish their mistakes and do so, but never become overzealous. Capitalizing on momentum is fine, but do not overstep your bounds. Be highly aware of their kill options, and don't let them land them. Consistently stay out of range of them, and use shurikens very sparingly to force approaches. As long as you stay constantly aware of their options, it will become extremely difficult for them to catch you. Also, unless they have a kill throw or a kill combo out of grab, do not be afraid to shield more often than usual if necessary. Getting grabbed is a lot better than getting killed by a rogue Fsmash or something, and more likely than not, the worst thing that will happen is that you take a little more percent (whoo more rage!).

Don't concentrate on tacking on percent. Concentrate on surviving, and your punishes will deal enough percent. Personally, I act as though I'm trying to time them out most the time (until I try and capitalize on momentum). The most stressful parts are probably the two-three seconds of invincibility they have after respawn. I usually try and avoid getting hit at all, but if they can't do much out of a throw (and don't have a command grab that can KO), you can stay relatively safe in shield. Remember, percent you take really doesn't matter past a certain percent. If you're at a relatively low percent, I'd say it's probably a better idea to try and avoid being hit altogether, though.

 

[Makani]

I got my Greninja pre-order in today AND Pacman. It was definitely... An experience, to say the least.

 

[FullMoon]

Guess who was working on a very detailed and informative Greninja guide all day yesterday?

Me!

Guess who just lost all of it because his computer decided to go crash out of nowhere?

Also me!

 

[David Galanos]

I got my Greninja pre-order in today AND Pacman. It was definitely... An experience, to say the least.

"an experience"? lol

and Im already starting to see results @ KERO and @ Ludiloco I usually get at least 30-40 percent or more if I'm doing well but I still will make a mistake occasionally and not get much, but thanks again. Game changing advice for me

@ FullMoon I know how you feel.. ; ~ ;

 

[KERO]

Really unsure if I like that or not FullMoon <.<, Sucks to hear that happened =/

I've been debating whether I should write a guide or not, but I'm not sure if I could clearly convey all the ins and outs of Greninja concisely at all or if I'm even really qualified to write one in the first place haha. Maybe during the summer I could try taking a stab at it.

Also, glad to hear that, Apost1e! Greninja with a stock lead is absolutely terrifying once you get that crucial spacing down. Even grabbing him is a challenge at that point.

 

[Jaguar360]

Guess who was working on a very detailed and informative Greninja guide all day yesterday?

Me!

Guess who just lost all of it because his computer decided to go crash out of nowhere?

Also me!

That stinks. I wish you luck when/if you decide to rewrite it. I shall lend you my mental brain power from ~10 countries away.

I hate when stuff like this happens. One time I just gave up when I was making a thread.

 

[Snackss]

It's really hard to get motivated for Greninja. Every time things seem to be going well, then I get a game where I can't hit with anything but uncharged Water Shuriken and can't get KO's.

 

[SilentSpartan]

I have a theory that people underestimate Greninja's learning curve. I'm not exactly the best Greninja player, granted, but I think patience is an essential part is his style. Reading is too, but that kind of goes without saying.

 

[Funkermonster]

Mom got my Greninja pre-ordered today, and so far I have every wave 4 figure preordered except , who I plan to camp out at Target on the 29th to get her (its on the last day of school too, and I get to skip it! hehe ), including the Splatoon bundle. Just one problem now: I can't find the goddamn receipt! She supposedly gave it to me earlier but I don't see where she put it, and right now she's sleeping and a little angry with me so she won't help me look for it.

This is all assuming Toys R Us even keeps their word on it, remember when they canceled preorders for ? And a lot of wave 4 figure orders have recently been canceled too and its only increasing, I'm scared tbh.

 

[SilentSpartan]

I'm just trying my luck with the Greninja amiibo when the fourth wave is released. When it comes to pre-orders, I rarely find Toys-R-Us to be dependable. Why did Nintendo decide to make the only other amiibos I want to be exclusive to them...

 

[Ludiloco]

I've just decided to stop with the whole Amiibo thing. Eventually if they become more common I'll pick up a ninja but as of now it's really not worth the hassle. They are a lot cooler than I thought they'd be, but still.

Plus, already have a D3 and a Yoshi

 

[Marilink]

Well, it's official.

Statistically I'm still #5, but apparently the guys who compiled the PR think I haven't been to enough tournaments recently--which is, unfortunately, pretty accurate. (One of the many problems with living far away from the hub of the scene. =/ )

Either way, I'm still pumped to be on an official PR!

(also, sidenote, the #3 guy went Diddy for the majority of the season, then jumped ship after the nerf. I'm a little miffed that he listed Greninja as his main since he got up that high playing a completely different character...but oh well.)

 

[FullMoon]

All of my jealously, Marilink.

Wish you luck with being an official PR!

I'm surprised that there are 2 Kirbys and even more surprised that there's a Ganon in first.

 

[Marilink]

GTB is the truth. He was placing top 5 consistently, and then when MN shifted to doing more Customs tournaments he has been routinely taking first.

Triple R plays yellow Kirby in every game, and he's legit in every single one (except he doesn't play PM at all). Get this: he is #3 on the Melee PR.

Unfortunately, I am moving out of MN at the end of the month, so this is my first and last MN PR. Now I have to break into the Wisconsin scene full-force. I'll be there for two years, and my goal is to get on 2 different PR's for 2 games.

 

[SmashRacer]

I'm also a bit surprised that a Ganon is ranked number 1. Anyways, amazing job making it to an offical PR @ Marilink . Good luck afterwards.

On to something else. Don't know if this have been discovered or not, so I might as well share it.
I was messing around with Greninja in Training Mode yesterday and I discovered something that might be useful

Here it is: http://www.gfycat.com/TallSillyDowitcher

So yeah it kinda sets them up for an Air Dodge trap into Sweetspotted Up Smash, from what it looks like
Had to slow it down to 1/4, because it is insanely hard to do, for me at least, and then I speeded it up in Movie Maker due to gfycat's 15 second limit.

 

[FullMoon]

If a Greninja player manages to pull that off in a tournament it's going to be the most hype thing ever.