Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Ulevo]

Hi.

Could someone please explain to me exactly how Greninja's Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel works, and its limitations?

 

[Piipp]

Hi.

Could someone please explain to me exactly how Greninja's Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel works, and its limitations?

Tbh nobody really knows how it works lol. We just have a partial grasp of it right now.

But SSHC works against most multi-hit moves and combo strings and is used to get out of them. Ex: Fox's Jab, Links Usmash, ZSS UpB.

Using it could be beneficial or bad for you. Say you were to escape a combo string using SSHC. Due to the endlag on SS, the opponent could catch you and punish you before the lag is over.

In terms of it being beneficial, SS could hit your opponent during the move or string they are doing, or you could straight up just get out of their move.

 

[Ulevo]

Tbh nobody really knows how it works lol. We just have a partial grasp of it right now.

But SSHC works against most multi-hit moves and combo strings and is used to get out of them. Ex: Fox's Jab, Links Usmash, ZSS UpB.

Using it could be beneficial or bad for you. Say you were to escape a combo string using SSHC. Due to the endlag on SS, the opponent could catch you and punish you before the lag is over.

In terms of it being beneficial, SS could hit your opponent during the move or string they are doing, or you could straight up just get out of their move.

How is it performed?

 

[Jaguar360]

How is it performed?

It's generally performed by just mashing side B until Greninja escapes the move. In some cases, a bit of Smash DI will help for it to work. For some multi-hit moves, the cloud of smoke from Shadow Sneak appears, but he still gets hit anyway because the multi-hits are too fast and end up catching him before the full attack comes out. In the case of Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop, Greninja's able to get out of it pretty reliably since it's only two hits, but SSHC can still be easy for a Greninja player to mess up overall because of timing.

Thread on the list of moves that SSHC works on here: http://smashboards.com/threads/shadow-sneak-hitstun-cancellable-moves.426941/

 

[Guimartgon]

Now that we are on the subject of SSHC, I know you can use it vs 's Utilt string, but I can never seem to hit Mario with the shadow sneak and I just get regrabbed so I have to just DI out and jump and try to get away. Am I doing the SHCC wrong/is there a way to hit Mario with this to make it actually viable? Or should I just not SSHC out of Mario's downthrow?

 

[Y2Kay]

Hi.

Could someone please explain to me exactly how Greninja's Shadow Sneak hitstun cancel works, and its limitations?

Here's a little tid bit, greninja can't SSHC sweet spot shuttle loop, only the sour spot.

 

[Ulevo]

Here's a little tid bit, greninja can't SSHC sweet spot shuttle loop, only the sour spot.

I am assuming this is because Shadow Sneak can only cancel so many frames out of hitstun, and since the sweet spot provides higher base knock back, it is harder to do?

 

[FullMoon]

I am assuming this is because Shadow Sneak can only cancel so many frames out of hitstun, and since the sweet spot provides higher base knock back, it is harder to do?

Greninja can use Shadow Sneak out of any move that doesn't put him into tumble, most moves tend to send the opponent into tumble as percentages gets higher due to knockback values, but some like multihits don't because otherwise they wouldn't connect properly.

The sweetspot of SL probably has enough knockback that Greninja being hit with it puts him into tumble after a while while the sourspot doesn't.

This post by KERO is probably the best source of info about it

 

[Mocha]

Now that we are on the subject of SSHC, I know you can use it vs 's Utilt string, but I can never seem to hit Mario with the shadow sneak and I just get regrabbed so I have to just DI out and jump and try to get away. Am I doing the SHCC wrong/is there a way to hit Mario with this to make it actually viable? Or should I just not SSHC out of Mario's downthrow?

Same with Kirby's Utilt. I sometimes find myself questioning whether SSHC is sometimes worth it in those situations, when you can be regrabbed (or up tilted again), but I guess there would need some damage testing comparisons.

I do find however, that having a platform above you can be helpful when SSHC, so that you have somewhere to land after Shadow Sneak, and hopefully have time to react before your opponent does. Platforms actually helping us a bit for a change!

 

[Hashoraq]

Hey guys, I've made a video regarding the ongoing eSports Visa issues. Please tell me what you think about it and share if possible. Didn't quite know where to post it so if a moderater knows maybe you can re-place it somewhere else. #FreeLeffen #FreeMkleo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFkFVmj1VE

 

[Nameless Pariah]

Let me first say that while I occasionally sift through the Greninja forums I don't do so enough to know if this topic has already been covered but if it has:
Could someone please link me/give me tips on how to jab lock an opponent after a falling Nair -> Footstool?
I've been trying to incorporate more footstools into my playstyle as of late and seen that some players (PHaZeX3R0) usually locks with the spiking hitbox of DAir or am I wrong?

 

[Piipp]

Let me first say that while I occasionally sift through the Greninja forums I don't do so enough to know if this topic has already been covered but if it has:
Could someone please link me/give me tips on how to jab lock an opponent after a falling Nair -> Footstool?
I've been trying to incorporate more footstools into my playstyle as of late and seen that some players (PHaZeX3R0) usually locks with the spiking hitbox of DAir or am I wrong?

I imagine that you're talking about the Footstool Dair lock.

This has to be done at a pretty low percent and is dependent on the character. The combo itself is, Nair -> Footstool -> Dair.
In order to lock you have to Dair right after the footstool. But if you Dair too late it won't lock. However, if you lock them successfully, you can do it a second time (depending on their percent) by Shuriken Stalling, after you hit the Dair, and FF Nair -> Footstool -> Dair. I'm not sure if you can do it a third time but someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but this is just my understanding of it all.

Another cool Jab lock Greninja has is his Dair -> Footstool -> Bair. This is a lot easier than the first one and has to be done at a higher percent. (Not sure on percents. My guess would be 90% - 120% on most characters.). If you Dair your opponent with the spike hitbox on stage, they'll pop-up and that will allow you to get the fairly easy footstool into Bair.

Sorry if this is wonky or confusing. I kind of rushed through it but I felt that I could give some decent insight.

 

[Guimartgon]

Essentially what Piipp said. Practice Nair Footstool first, the timing is very different depending on % and character so it's hard to learn via muscle memory. I tend to Nair then dash under my opponent and then jump twice.
Something that helped me a lot was having the L button set to jump. This made footstooling easier since you just press X and then L(or R) instead of rushing two inputs with the same button. It also made it easy to get the lock (which I think you were struggling with) since your right hand presses X once and as you press the L trigger your right hand is getting ready to press down on the C-stick.

 

[Megamang]

Is there a list of who greninja can 2 frame with dsmash? I've been working on that because it allows for some pretty borked risk/reward, and i'd like to know if im wasting my time on some characters. Dsmash at the ledge is super powerful, because you can try and again and get damage for free if they do a standup or attack by hydro pumping them. This will condition jumps which can be forced into an awkward landing situation with a diagonal spurt of water in their face, or... rolls... *shudders*, don't ledge roll vs greninja.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

So after many moons of absence from these boards, I have returned to share a most important message:
Footstool combos are hard.

EDIT: Oh, and it doesn't seem that anyone has posted this here, but it does answer a few of Nameless Pariah 's questions:

 

[Mocha]

Yup, already put this on our video thread not long after it was out. About time we had a new guide/tutorial-ish video. Thanks again though ◥｡θ┴θ｡◤

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Well, I've been almost exclusively hanging around the Cloud boards, so please pardon the oversight.
Oh, and gratz to @NonSpecificGuy regarding the mod promotion.

 

[Mocha]

Well, I've been almost exclusively hanging around the Cloud boards, so please pardon the oversight.
Oh, and gratz to @NonSpecificGuy regarding the mod promotion.

It's all good, better that these vids spread to more than just one thread anywho, especially cause not everyone is subscribed to every thread. Don't hesitate to post more stuff here (I appreciate contributions) or elsewhere if you see any, am trying my best to keep our vids updated.

And yes, footstool combos are tricky, but they're kind of addicting once you get the hang of them

 

[Igneo]

[Quote = "JesseMcCloud, de la publicación: 21195788, miembro de: 217251"] Así que después de muchas lunas de ausencia de estos tableros, he vuelto a compartir un mensaje más importante:
combos estrado son difíciles.

EDIT: Ah, y no parece que nadie ha publicado esto aquí, pero sí responder a algunas de [= 270562 USER] preguntas Nameless Pariah [/ USUARIO] 's:
[MEDIA = youtube] AjFyfysoJ1Y [/ MEDIA] [/ quote]
In some parts, it slides.
As it does?

 

[Mocha]

Shout-outs to Venia for winning Grand Finals vs PinkFresh's Bayo in this tourney:

https://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/v/71160794

Videos will surely be updated to our video thread as soon as they're uploaded c:

 

[Ffamran]

I don't think this question would work in the Q&A since it's kind of stupid, but Some's tag in kanji is そめ, right? If so...

Apparently, Some and a bunch of other Japanese players like Eim, a Sheik main, and MASA, a Ness main, like participating in character tournaments. This is old footage of Some's Greninja: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o80S8yTzuZ8, and this is apparently Some participating in a Falco tournament against MASA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51xp1VUKveg, a while back. Same, そめ tags in both videos. Kinda interesting.

 

[Stroderp]

Woah, I haven't said anything in awhile.
Anyways, I recently have been able to do some work I guess, have been taking sets off of Saiki who is ranked 2nd in Arizona right now. I got 25th at 2GGT Fresh Saga taking a game off of Ryo and beating NCJacobT, 17th in doubles out of I believe 63(?) with Saiki. I got 17th at 2GGT Mexico Saga 2-0ing Aphro in pools and taking a game off of ZeRo and Tearbear in top 48, 7th in doubles out of 99 teams still with Saiki.
I should probably be on smashboards more too lol

 

[Guimartgon]

So Gibus got top 8 at Low Tier City 4 losing only to Cosmos and Esam so shoutouts to him for a really good performance!

 

[Jaguar360]

Also shoutouts to @Illusion. for getting 9th, losing to Gibus in losers!

And then there's also Elexiao winning Salty Arena Cup U and Oisiitofu getting 5th at a stacked 180-man Japanese tournament. Great results for Greninja this weekend.

 

[Gunla]

News Time!

Have a few things that will be happening this week, I apologize for the dormancy.

First, the Notable Greninja Project will be updated Wednesday. I'm going to at least add most of the submissions listed there.

Second, I will be relaunching the MU thread and starting from a clean slate. It's probably good to do this as it appears patches are really over. I want to know your thoughts on how many to cover per week, as well as who to start off with.

Thanks for sticking with me here, fellow frogs.

-Liberation

 

[Lawliet626]

2 MU's per week sounds fine

 

[Y2Kay]

I'm raring to go Libz! ヽ◥￣▽ ￣◤ノ

 

[Jaguar360]

I think the 2 per week worked well in the matchup thread. Enough for the thread to be active and for people to have stuff to talk about while also not being too overwhelming.

 

[Y2Kay]

We ded.

 

[ROBnWatch]

R.I.P. Frog board.

 

[Igneo]

I'm still here. XD

 

[Nameless Pariah]

Discord killed the board ironically

 

[Mocha]

Discord killed the board ironically

Pretty much. Let's also not forget about Skype and Twitter too. Though this social wasn't super active to start with, compared to some other social threads.

 

[SEXYGOAT]

Lets revive dis

 

[ROBnWatch]

*Insert Greninja sound effects here*

 

[Igneo]

gekko gekko

 

[Y2Kay]

Greninjuh! ◥θ┴θ◤

 

[ROBnWatch]

Gre-, Gre-, Gren!

NA... JA JA JA JA JA JA JA JA JA JA JA JA JA! Greninja!

 

[free33]

Hey greninjas, quit whining/croaking like froakies and check out what DMG Phaze put out! more online moments! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkDlXJ3jiKg
is up tilt a viable footstool setup? i wasn't sure if it had enough hitstun.
Also, check out how incredibly useful Perfect Pivot up tilt is!

 

[Jaguar360]

Hey you darn crazy frogs, former best Greninja Some will be at Umebura in Japan tonight after a long time absence from tournaments. Be sure to watch if you can.

Also iStudying is at PPT in Germany today. He is currently waiting in Winners Semis after a close set with CRK to face off against Abadango .