Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Calvonta]

EDIT: Is there a thread for jab lock situations for Greninja? What can we lock with? I know jab and first hit of bair at least, but are there any other moves?

We can only jab lock with his legs. Just call 'em Leg Locks.

Dair and Ftilt up to a certain % that's low to midish

But the first hit of bair you can do it till a pretty high %

Those lock situations have a higher chance of happening with on stages with platforms if its above nair footstool % of course.

 

[Jaguar360]

I can finally do footstool combos now! Practiced a lot last night with momochuu's video on the side and found myself able to do them more than once. I think that I wasn't really focused on actually getting the footstool before and not having the sound on my 3DS on all the time prevented me from using the footstool sound effect to indicate when I should d-air. Next step is to do this in an actual match (though I did manage to do it against a Dedede CPU).

I also got Zelda's Farore's Wind cancelling down last night. Did playing Dead or Alive again boost my execution skills or something?

 

[31IV]

Mfw when I actually find Mr. R on FG
and he's playing Megaman and I kinda get destroyed by lemons resulting in him leaving immediately

 

[TTYK]

Mfw when I actually find Mr. R on FG
and he's playing Megaman and I kinda get destroyed by lemons resulting in him leaving immediately

RIP

 

[Kace Mono]

Anyone got some solid advice for dealing with a Fox? im finding the matchup reall hard to deal with...

 

[31IV]

Patch notes looking nice so far, uploading my replays until the direct starts :]

 

[istudying]

These Greninja patches are looking good so far!

Still hope they add something special to him after the direct!

 

[momochuu]

my god, more buffs why.

 

[FullMoon]

Fairly minor buffs though, we probably only kill like 1-5% earlier with our Smashes and Shadow Sneak.

Nothing groundbreaking, just a little boost in KO power.

 

[Makani]

Those current buffs listed won't even be noticeable honestly. The only thing I really want at this point are better counter activation frames.

 

[Funkermonster]

So far, aside from these 'meh' buffs, I'm seein' no Mega Man buffs and no Sheik nerfs either. If this is the last patch and they still do nothing about Sheik, I'll cry....

 

[Snackss]

Forward air buff would have been preferred to any of them.

Now we know there will be at least one more patch in February though.

 

[Steve.Stone]

Must. Not. Abandon. Greninja. For Bayonetta. Help me resist my fellow ninjas!

 

[ROBnWatch]

Must. Not. Abandon. Greninja. For Bayonetta. Help me resist my fellow ninjas!

Easy. Bayonetta is the worst, and stupidest, of the DLC characters. Plain and simple. Yes, I really don't like her, so no need for going and pointing that out.

 

[FullMoon]

I'm very hyped for Bayonetta as well but I'll be keeping her as a secondary. I'm so glad I played the Bayonetta games so I could be this hyped again.

 

[momochuu]

i'm playing bayonetta no matter what.

 

[Knife8193]

...unless she sucks

 

[istudying]

Lets not forget about Greninja after the release of Bayonetta =P

I did some quick testing on cloud, and noticed that his recovery is a big flaw. He never snaps on the ledge instantly. We as Greninja players can just up b him when he tries to recover.

Here is an example of what i mean.
https://twitter.com/iStudying/status/677064620536893440

 

[NWDM 1-H]

I heard about a frog discord group.
Is there a link here somewhere?
◥o┴o◤

 

[Space thing]

Lets not forget about Greninja after the release of Bayonetta =P

I did some quick testing on cloud, and noticed that his recovery is a big flaw. He never snaps on the ledge instantly. We as Greninja players can just up b him when he tries to recover.

Here is an example of what i mean.
https://twitter.com/iStudying/status/677064620536893440

Or on stage Dair spike him by the ledge. Or Dsmash him at the ledge. There are a lot of things we can do lol.

 

[NWDM 1-H]

Or on stage Dair spike him by the ledge. Or Dsmash him at the ledge. There are a lot of things we can do lol.

Even the counter spike.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Hey Ninjas, fellow Greninja player here. Just wanted to see if anyone wants to join a twitch tourney i am having tomorrow. Prizes available such as a Greninja amiibo and others! More deets in the video below : )

Link: https://youtu.be/TWq5iQbLf-o

 

[istudying]

Heya guys,

I uploaded a short Greninja highlight!

Check it out ^^

 

[1up_Regal]

FullMoon and I got 1st and 2nd, respectively, out of 51 people in a tournament here in Brazil today.

It’s a good day to main greninja here in Rio de Janeiro!

There’ll be videos soon!

 

[NWDM 1-H]

It’s a good day to main greninja here in Rio de Janeiro!

And I just won a "major" event in Copenhagen with our frog. Last match in GF was with #Maerth though, but mainly Greninja.

Only 13 players showed up so the prize was cut from 1600 DKK to just 450 DKK for 1st place. I don't know why the other players didn't come.
http://challonge.com/netpartySmash4

 

[Starman147]

FullMoon and I got 1st and 2nd, respectively, out of 51 people in a tournament here in Brazil today.

It’s a good day to main greninja here in Rio de Janeiro!

There’ll be videos soon!

I swear it feels like all of the countries besides the U.S. have results with Greninja, and then U.S. makes him lower on the tier list because of the fact that no one plays him here.

I wonder how Greninja is in any foreign tier lists besides Japan.

 

[grenija1998]

hello,i love greninja! his shuriken does lots of damag!

 

[istudying]

I swear it feels like all of the countries besides the U.S. have results with Greninja, and then U.S. makes him lower on the tier list because of the fact that no one plays him here.

I wonder how Greninja is in any foreign tier lists besides Japan.

Yesterday was a great day for Greninja mains! I also won both singles and teams tournament with Greninja only.

I have seen American tier list where Greninja isn't even top 20. These so called tier list are based on tournament results in America. I dont even think that they may call them tier list since its based on results and not on the character abilities.

We will proof them different soon!

Hope i can get to America some time in the summer next year.

 

[NWDM 1-H]

I have seen American tier list where Greninja isn't even top 20. These so called tier list are based on tournament results in America. I dont even think that they may call them tier list since its based on results and not on the character abilities.

A player named Duffcity who's my friend and I am making a tier-list based on frame data, meta and character abilities.
So far, it looks like this:

Spoiler: Tier list patch 1.1.3

v. 1.1.3

High-tier:
High

Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina (LUMA), Luigi, Pikachu, Ryu, Pac-Man, Fox,


Mid

Ike, Greninja, Lucas, Sonic, Captain Falcon, Cloud, Mario,


Low

Olimar, Roy, R.O.B, Donkey Kong, Samus,

Mid-tier:

High

Dr. Mario, Wario, Villager, Meta Knight, Peach, Lucario, Link, Yoshi,


Mid

Diddy Kong, Ness, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Palutena, Little Mac, Mewtwo, Marth, Megaman, Toon Link, Mr. Game & Watch,


Low

Dedede, Pit, Dark Pit, Shulk, Ganondorf, Charizard, Falco, Lucina, Robin, Jigglypuff,



Low-tier:

Mii Brawler, Zelda, Bowser, Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter,

Of course it isn't finished and there's many characters where we lack information regarding their metagame and therefore are placed low on the list.


As you can see, we placed Greninja as top 10 due to his extreme combo game and mobility. If you're good enough, you can basically 0-death most characters on FD in a true combo, because Greninja as a character has the ability to do that.

Will keep working on it and probably place Bowser higher because of his up-throw buff, which gives him new combos.

 

[Starman147]

Yesterday was a great day for Greninja mains! I also won both singles and teams tournament with Greninja only.

I have seen American tier list where Greninja isn't even top 20. These so called tier list are based on tournament results in America. I dont even think that they may call them tier list since its based on results and not on the character abilities.

We will proof them different soon!

Hope i can get to America some time in the summer next year.

To be fair, Pikachu really only has ESAM playing him and Yoshi has next to no results, yet we still place Pika in the top tiers and Yoshi is still considered a good high tier. So it's not exclusively based on results, but what players can show with their character that would convince people they're that good.

Greninja's problem is that someone who hasn't fully optimized his combos can't really show why he deserves to be in the high tiers. And at this rate, probably no one will attempt to do so because those combos are considerably more difficult than easier methods higher tier characters have.

 

[Jaguar360]

To be fair, Pikachu really only has ESAM playing him and Yoshi has next to no results, yet we still place Pika in the top tiers and Yoshi is still considered a good high tier. So it's not exclusively based on results, but what players can show with their character that would convince people they're that good.

Greninja's problem is that someone who hasn't fully optimized his combos can't really show why he deserves to be in the high tiers. And at this rate, probably no one will attempt to do so because those combos are considerably more difficult than easier methods higher tier characters have.

Well, NAKAT and Shimitake (Japan) also do well with Pikachu and Yoshi's results have been getting better over the past few months thanks to Raptor, The Wall and Poltergust in America and Aiba, Yoshidora and DIO in Japan.

I think Greninja's low perception is mostly because of his (supposed) lack of results along with post 1.04 nerfs perception and misinformation from commentators and the like. It's a shame that Greninja's results aren't being taken so seriously. You have iStudying doing super well in the Netherlands, Fullmoon and other Greninjas in Brazil, Eddy in Germany, Elexiao in France, Some in Japan...pretty much all over the world. Even America has Gibus doing work in Texas and Techei's improving a lot.

The combos also may contribute a bit, but Some has done some of the footstool combos mid match and, if I'm not mistaken, I've seen Elexiao and iStudying do some as well. I think the problems I listed above probably factor in more with his perception.

 

[Eddy]

Im not from spain

by the way istudy and myself will be at beast6

 

[FullMoon]

I'm pretty sure the only other Greninja who has gotten good results in Brazil is Regal, we both got to Grand Finals in the tournament on Saturday.

Granted, having two good Greninja players at all somewhere is already incredibly rare.

 

[Starman147]

Well, NAKAT and Shimitake (Japan) also do well with Pikachu and Yoshi's results have been getting better over the past few months thanks to Raptor, The Wall and Poltergust in America and Aiba, Yoshidora and DIO in Japan.

I think Greninja's low perception is mostly because of his (supposed) lack of results along with post 1.04 nerfs perception and misinformation from commentators and the like. It's a shame that Greninja's results aren't being taken so seriously. You have iStudying doing super well in the Netherlands, Fullmoon and other Greninjas in Brazil, Eddy in Spain, Elexiao in France, Some in Japan...pretty much all over the world. Even America has Gibus doing work in Texas and Techei's improving a lot.

The combos also may contribute a bit, but Some has done some of the footstool combos mid match and, if I'm not mistaken, I've seen Elexiao and iStudying do some as well. I think the problems I listed above probably factor in more with his perception.

You got me on those other Pikachu players and Yoshi players, they didn't really come to mind when I was making the post. Although Yoshi seems to have a similar problem with Greninja; a lot of talent, but has yet to find the super breakout person (i.e. Ally with Mario, Trela with Ryu) with the character. With Greninja that may have something to do with his matchup against Sheik, who at this point is basically ubiquitous in a tournament, but I don't really understand Yoshi's case.

 

[Jaguar360]

Im not from spain

by the way istudy and myself will be at beast6

I knew I would get that wrong. Sorry Eddy. :/

I'm pretty sure the only other Greninja who has gotten good results in Brazil is Regal, we both got to Grand Finals in the tournament on Saturday.

Granted, having two good Greninja players at all somewhere is already incredibly rare.

Looks like I was a bit misinformed. Having two high level Greninjas in the same area is still awesome though.

In other news, I have the Wii U version now. Once I get used to the Gamecube controls (will probably take a week or two...my Greninja looks sloppy as heck right now with these controls -_-) I'd like to play people.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I knew I would get that wrong. Sorry Eddy. :/

Looks like I was a bit misinformed. Having two high level Greninjas in the same area is still awesome though.

In other news, I have the Wii U version now. Once I get used to the Gamecube controls (will probably take a week or two...my Greninja looks sloppy as heck right now with these controls -_-) I'd like to play people.

This being (what seems like) a very competitive thread, you guys will gawk and cringe at me when I say this. But my preferred controller type for Smash is Wiimote held sideways.

For me, it's much easier than a crazy, whacked up GCC...

 

[Starman147]

This being (what seems like) a very competitive thread, you guys will gawk and cringe at me when I say this. But my preferred controller type for Smash is Wiimote held sideways.

For me, it's much easier than a crazy, whacked up GCC...

Back when I first got my copy of Brawl I only had a wiimote for about 6 months. I thought it did the job well anyway and I wasn't very competitive, but I can see it being an option if that was the controller you used the most.

Gamecube controller really only feels good if you've already used it before, perhaps because of nostalgia or you've been using it for Melee and Brawl. I personally use the Pro Controller and the button placement seems a lot better than the Gamecube's in my opinion. It's all just a matter of what you like to play the most.

 

[Jaguar360]

This being (what seems like) a very competitive thread, you guys will gawk and cringe at me when I say this. But my preferred controller type for Smash is Wiimote held sideways.

For me, it's much easier than a crazy, whacked up GCC...

Wii remote held sideways was the first control scheme I ever used for Smash when I played Brawl haha (well, unless you count Super Smash Flash 1...). I didn't really like it back then and switched to Wiimote and nunchuck later on. This was before I learned about the competitive scene though. When I started playing with more standard rulesets, I was playing Super Smash Flash 2 and emulated Brawl with a keyboard, so my experience playing Smash with actual Nintendo controllers is really limited (I got used to 3DS really quickly though unlike with the GC controller).

I can play Mario Kart and Shadow the Hedgehog just fine with the GC controller, but playing Melee, Brawl or Sm4sh Wii U doesn't seem doable for me atm lol.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Back when I first got my copy of Brawl I only had a wiimote for about 6 months. I thought it did the job well anyway and I wasn't very competitive, but I can see it being an option if that was the controller you used the most.

Gamecube controller really only feels good if you've already used it before, perhaps because of nostalgia or you've been using it for Melee and Brawl. I personally use the Pro Controller and the button placement seems a lot better than the Gamecube's in my opinion. It's all just a matter of what you like to play the most.

Wii remote held sideways was the first control scheme I ever used for Smash when I played Brawl haha (well, unless you count Super Smash Flash 1...). I didn't really like it back then and switched to Wiimote and nunchuck later on. This was before I learned about the competitive scene though. When I started playing with more standard rulesets, I was playing Super Smash Flash 2 and emulated Brawl with a keyboard, so my experience playing Smash with actual Nintendo controllers is really limited (I got used to 3DS really quickly though unlike with the GC controller).

I can play Mario Kart and Shadow the Hedgehog just fine with the GC controller, but playing Melee, Brawl or Sm4sh Wii U doesn't seem doable for me atm lol.

Ya. I never played Melee and didn't grow up with it, so the GCC isn't really my thing. The first time I played Smash was when I played Brawl at my cousin's house. He didn't have a spare GCC, so he let me use the Wiimote, told me to hold it sideways, and that's been my set up ever since.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Well, NAKAT and Shimitake (Japan) also do well with Pikachu and Yoshi's results have been getting better over the past few months thanks to Raptor, The Wall and Poltergust in America and Aiba, Yoshidora and DIO in Japan.

I think Greninja's low perception is mostly because of his (supposed) lack of results along with post 1.04 nerfs perception and misinformation from commentators and the like. It's a shame that Greninja's results aren't being taken so seriously. You have iStudying doing super well in the Netherlands, Fullmoon and other Greninjas in Brazil, Eddy in Germany, Elexiao in France, Some in Japan...pretty much all over the world. Even America has Gibus doing work in Texas and Techei's improving a lot.

The combos also may contribute a bit, but Some has done some of the footstool combos mid match and, if I'm not mistaken, I've seen Elexiao and iStudying do some as well. I think the problems I listed above probably factor in more with his perception.

American Greninja's need to step it up...