Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Lavani]

Guys! I beat a Ness main today!

Oh, and I also placed 4th in a 50 man tourney going solely Greninja minus two matches in pools.

Now, I need MK help, though.

Nice job!

Is there something specific with the MK matchup that's tripping you up?

 

[BlinkIV]

Hey guys.

Just picked up Greninja recently. Love this character.

Nice to meet you all, I'm Blink!

 

[KERO]

Nice job!

Is there something specific with the MK matchup that's tripping you up?

Mostly the fact that he can be right in my face, and I can't do anything about it. Also, again, aerial approaching shuts me down. Even with Utilt, he can jump and airdodge, fast fall, and then Dtilt. And thanks!

Hey guys.

Just picked up Greninja recently. Love this character.

Nice to meet you all, I'm Blink!

Hey! Glad to have you here! Greninja's a really interesting and fun character to play, but he does require some precision in your movements and attacks. If you have any questions regarding him, feel free to ask me through PM. Unfortunately, we don't have a character guide up yet, but I'll be happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

 

[FullMoon]

Guys how to deal with R.O.B? He easily outcamps Greninja with the gyros and lasers and he's really hard to approach without getting by something in the process.

I think R.O.B is probably going to be Greninja's worst match up, at least going from my experience against them.

 

[KERO]

Guys how to deal with R.O.B? He easily outcamps Greninja with the gyros and lasers and he's really hard to approach without getting by something in the process.

I think R.O.B is probably going to be Greninja's worst match up, at least going from my experience against them.

I know this may sound patronizing, so I really apologize if it comes out that way, but you really just need to bear down on R.O.B. Just anticipate the lasers and power shield, and Fair over the Gyro (or just shield it or Nair it and R.O.B.), and keep going in. Once you're near R.O.B., just jab, or if you can, grab and Uthrow. Once R.O.B. is in the air, he really has no easy or reliable way to land against Greninja. Uair, Fsmash, Usmash, Bair, grabs, and Fair all catch him. You can throw a Shuriken occasionally, but you need to always be on him. Just tack on percent like crazy and then get a read for the kill (or Uthrow if they're at high enough percent). R.O.B.'s pitiful airspeed and floatiness makes him really easy to chase down once he's in the air. Like you said, the biggest problem probably is getting in, but it just takes a couple of precise attacks to throw him off once you're in mid-range, and then you can pretty much just go full ham. Just be aware of his grab range, though. Uthrow can kill us at around 135%, but stuff like Nair to spotdodge/roll and a well spaced Fair can help avoid grabs. Overall, I feel it's actually one of our easier MUs to be completely honest (all this is coming from my experience vs Mister Eric. We will be playing online later this week, so I may be able to provide replays and stuff if needed later on).

 

[BlinkIV]

Hey! Glad to have you here! Greninja's a really interesting and fun character to play, but he does require some precision in your movements and attacks. If you have any questions regarding him, feel free to ask me through PM. Unfortunately, we don't have a character guide up yet, but I'll be happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

Hey, thanks man! I really love Greninja's style. I used to main Falco for a bit before doing the change. I'm already yielding better results against the other top players in my region (Denti, Aerolink, Bwett, Dakpo). I'm still learning a few things with Greninja. There really isn't anything I don't like about this character haha.

If anyone needs, I've got some good knowledge against Rosalina & Luma, Shiek, Diddy, Captain Falcon, and Palutena. I would love to exchange thoughts with you guys! =)

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I spent my entire day making this. It might hurt your ears.

 

[FullMoon]

Boredom gives birth to interesting things.

Also thanks for the advice Kero, I'm going to try putting it in use and see if I can get any results out of it.

 

[joaoTforce]

I spent my entire day making this. It might hurt your ears.

well done. But it's not rated E for E-lluminati though...

 

[FlareHabanero]

6/10 needs more wubbing and chaos.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

6/10 needs more wubbing and chaos.

I don't have the pro enough video editting skillz for that stuff. :V

 

[Spirst]

Elu, I have no idea what I just watched so with that, I can only find myself saying, "ok."

 

[joaoTforce]

guys do you have any tips on how to fight captain falcon? I just get overwhelmed by his speed so easily

 

[BlinkIV]

guys do you have any tips on how to fight captain falcon? I just get overwhelmed by his speed so easily

From my matches playing against Bwett. I find mixing up your approaches with spaced SH fairs/crossup nairs to be most effective. Once your in his zone though, his best option is to mash nair (if he's in the air) into jab, or just drop shield jabs. So you can just stay in that range to avoid the jab and just punish him. I don't really use WS in neutral against him due to speed but a lot of fair in neutral seems to do well.

 

[joaoTforce]

From my matches playing against Bwett. I find mixing up your approaches with spaced SH fairs/crossup nairs to be most effective. Once your in his zone though, his best option is to mash nair (if he's in the air) into jab, or just drop shield jabs. So you can just stay in that range to avoid the jab and just punish him. I don't really use WS in neutral against him due to speed but a lot of fair in neutral seems to do well.

oh wow right after reading this I find a captain falcon on FG and f-air does wonders! I just approached him using SH f-airs stayed close to him and punished some of his smash attacks. Thank you! Also I don't use nairs very often.. like... at all. I really should try to implement those in my gameplay.

 

[BlinkIV]

oh wow right after reading this I find a captain falcon on FG and f-air does wonders! I just approached him using SH f-airs stayed close to him and punished some of his smash attacks. Thank you! Also I don't use nairs very often.. like... at all. I really should try to implement those in my gameplay.

Nair is a really good move. Low endlag and auto cancel properties (I believe?), but just don't be suuuuper predictable with it. Some characters with fast grabs can just shield grab and punish you for doing it. However on the bright side you can crossup shields with it and go from there.

Also for Falcon I like to go to Town and City and utilize the platforms to your advantage. I really like platforms against him haha.

 

[Lavani]

Nair is a really good move. Low endlag and auto cancel properties (I believe?), but just don't be suuuuper predictable with it. Some characters with fast grabs can just shield grab and punish you for doing it. However on the bright side you can crossup shields with it and go from there.

It doesn't autocancel until really late (40f autocancel, hitbox active 12~13f strong hit and 14~16f weak hit for reference), but the landing lag is pretty low and it's definitely a lot safer when you crossup on shields with it, like you said.

 

[joaoTforce]

Nair is a really good move. Low endlag and auto cancel properties (I believe?), but just don't be suuuuper predictable with it. Some characters with fast grabs can just shield grab and punish you for doing it. However on the bright side you can crossup shields with it and go from there.

Also for Falcon I like to go to Town and City and utilize the platforms to your advantage. I really like platforms against him haha.

yeah I would imagine platforms help out against him. On a flat stage he can just dash attack, run at you and grab you since he's so fast and he can down-b. Unfortunately I don't have a wii u (T.T) so I would go to battlefield or prism tower to fight him

 

[BlinkIV]

It doesn't autocancel until really late (40f autocancel, hitbox active 12~13f strong hit and 14~16f weak hit for reference), but the landing lag is pretty low and it's definitely a lot safer when you crossup on shields with it, like you said.

Really? That's pretty nice. I'd definitely like to know his frame data sometime in the near future ahaha. Crossup nair is really good. I find it to work the most on Palutena and Falcon so far.

 

[KERO]

Decided I may as well share a couple of R.O.B. videos from the tourney I went to. Not saying I play the MU perfectly at all, but just wanted to give an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5gEG9gkMco&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0BuLer7iYo

Sorry about the slanted camcorder quality. I don't have an HD capture card.

Edit: So, did some more testing. However, I decided to not only test kill percents this time but a couple of other things as well. I decided to test for the following: whether each character could shield after jab or not (if so, the character has an S next to their name) and whether each character could hit Greninja out of upward Sub via the second hit of their jab (H (stands for hit) if so, DH (Delayed Hit) if the jab needs to be delayed in order to his Greninja out of it). Finally, 2nd O means that if the character tries to do their second jab immediately after the first jab when Greninja does his downward Substitute, they will be hit in the opposite direction Greninja is facing when doing the initial Substitute animation. One thing that I may go back and see is if those that shield either have to power shield or not, but Idk how important that is. The final release of this will be less cluttered (if it's found that not a single character's first hit of jab gets them hit in the opposite direction, then 2nd O will just be O), but here it is right now.

I'll have a special thing for the Mii Characters at the bottom in terms of the jab stuff. Right now, I have rage level 2 finished with every characters sans the Miis. Should get to them and the majority of rage level 3 in the afternoon/evening, though.

 

[FullMoon]

I think my other problem with R.O.B is that N-air of his, I keep getting hit by it due to how the hitbox of that thing works. Thanks for the videos though, those may help in the long run.

 

[Oblivion129]

I spent my entire day making this. It might hurt your ears.

Too much water
7.8/10

Spoiler

jk, great work! 10/10

 

[Marilink]

I think my other problem with R.O.B is that N-air of his, I keep getting hit by it due to how the hitbox of that thing works. Thanks for the videos though, those may help in the long run.

Are you talking about Miidas on Smashladder, Fullmoon? I have a ton of trouble with him. His zoning is just on point.

 

[Gunla]

I spent my entire day making this. It might hurt your ears.

Beautiful.

@ KERO
I presume that Snatch & Fling is going to be converting to a general KO% Thread? Just wondering.

 

[FullMoon]

Are you talking about Miidas on Smashladder, Fullmoon? I have a ton of trouble with him. His zoning is just on point.

Pretty much, he's the only R.O.B player I've really gone against and he just brutally murders me. I only ever managed to get close to winning against him by switching to Falco.

 

[KERO]

@ KERO
I presume that Snatch & Fling is going to be converting to a general KO% Thread? Just wondering.

Hmm... that's a good question actually. In order to save room, I may just do that (although, I'll be sad to let go of that name haha).

 

[FullMoon]

Ladies and gentlemen, the Substitute Elevator. Because once is not enough.

On another note this could've ended very badly for me but hey, it worked!

By the way, did anyone notice that if you're charging Shadow Sneak in the air, then release the button when you land, Greninja will actually delay a bit, the shadow still moving, before attacking? I don't think it has any practical uses, but it could maybe be used to catch the opponent offguard by having them do a spot dodge or roll early and end up getting kicked in the face.

 

[Makani]

By the way, did anyone notice that if you're charging Shadow Sneak in the air, then release the button when you land, Greninja will actually delay a bit, the shadow still moving, before attacking? I don't think it has any practical uses, but it could maybe be used to catch the opponent offguard by having them do a spot dodge or roll early and end up getting kicked in the face.

If you charge sneak and land just after the shadow reaches full length you can hold it indefinitely until you wanna teleport, so yeah it definitely has some mindgame potential. Projectile spam chars can easily negate it though.

 

[FullMoon]

Yeah, I only mentioned it because I actually got a kill on someone by doing that by accident. Greninja keeps finding more ways to mindgame his opponents.

@ KERO By the way, I looked at your icon in youtube after watching those videos, are you into Touhou too? =P

 

[KERO]

@ KERO By the way, I looked at your icon in youtube after watching those videos, are you into Touhou too? =P

Yep, haha, not quite as much as I used to, though. My tag actually comes from Kero ⑨ Destiny. Originally, my tag was the super generic "ZERO," but as that song grew on me, I decided to make the one letter swap. Said song also inspired my love of frogs, which led to my love of Politoed and whatnot. Then Froakie was announced in X/Y as a starter, and I was ecstatic. Then Frogadier was shown, and I was absolutely giddy at how cool he looked. Then, I eventually evolved my Frogadier into Greninja, and while a little perplexed at first, he grew to become my favorite Pokemon, more so than even Politoed. And then he was announced for Smash, and that immediately settled whom I intended to main. I guess, in a way, Touhou is indirectly responsible for my decision to main Greninja O.o I'm super glad I did, though. I absolutely love this character.

 

[MartianMedia]

Hey, everyone! I'm new around here and I am a huge Greninja fan and main him in 3DS. Don't have WiiU yet tho student budget 2 stronk 4 me.

Anyway, I'm a total beginner in the competitive smash scene and I probably won't go to any big tournaments, but I'm a decent player among people of my skill. I'm trying to learn a bit more about my buddy Greninja from this thread, but I have to break old habits before I get anywhere. But I digress. Nice to meet you all and I hope to stick around for a long time to come :D

 

[FullMoon]

Yep, haha, not quite as much as I used to, though. My tag actually comes from Kero ⑨ Destiny. Originally, my tag was the super generic "ZERO," but as that song grew on me, I decided to make the one letter swap. Said song also inspired my love of frogs, which led to my love of Politoed and whatnot. Then Froakie was announced in X/Y as a starter, and I was ecstatic. Then Frogadier was shown, and I was absolutely giddy at how cool he looked. Then, I eventually evolved my Frogadier into Greninja, and while a little perplexed at first, he grew to become my favorite Pokemon, more so than even Politoed. And then he was announced for Smash, and that immediately settled whom I intended to main. I guess, in a way, Touhou is indirectly responsible for my decision to main Greninja O.o I'm super glad I did, though. I absolutely love this character.

Haha, Touhou influenced me a lot after I was introduced to it. The series single-handledly made me a lot more interested into Japanese culture and as such I got some new appreciation for some of the Pokémon based on youkai like Froslass and Shiftry. Suwako also made me have a new appreciation for frogs too, but I liked Greninja more because of the "ninja" part that the frog aspect.

On that note, the reason behind my nickname is that it's named after a song from Touhou, Lunatic Red Eyes ~ Invisible Full Moon. It was a dumb nickname made on the spot but it kinda stuck with me so yeah. The song and the character it belongs too aren't even among my favorite from the series. For those that have me added in the Wii U, that's why my NNID is "INFullMoon" =P

 

[Sneak Frog]

Hey, everyone! I'm new around here and I am a huge Greninja fan and main him in 3DS. Don't have WiiU yet tho student budget 2 stronk 4 me.

Anyway, I'm a total beginner in the competitive smash scene and I probably won't go to any big tournaments, but I'm a decent player among people of my skill. I'm trying to learn a bit more about my buddy Greninja from this thread, but I have to break old habits before I get anywhere. But I digress. Nice to meet you all and I hope to stick around for a long time to come :D

Welcome to the Frog Army, pal. Now you must surrender your soul to our overlord frog. Enjoy your stay!

 

[Spirst]

Everyone who joins us should be mandated to remove their tongue and extend it around their neck as a symbol of devotion to the cult.

 

[Lavani]

Dang, Touhou fans all up in here.

Got into the series around the time of Shoot the Bullet myself. Mokou, Byakuren, Alice, and Sanae are love. Don't really care for Suwako.

I don't think my Touhou story pertains to Greninja or Smash very well.

 

[FullMoon]

Relevant

My first Touhou game was Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and the first character I used was Alice. She was my favorite until Miko came along.

But it seems that wherever I go, Touhou manages to find me even when I've been away from the series for a while =P

 

[Sneak Frog]

I know a little bit about Touhou myself, although I've only played Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, Perfect Cherry Blossom (my favorite so far), Imperishable Night, and a bit of Mountain of Faith.

Feels kind of like a cop-out that my favorite characters are Reimu and Marisa, though I do really like Sakuya and Yuyuko as well.

 

[KERO]

Outside of Suwako obviously, I'm also rather partial to a couple of the Eientei group (specifically Reisen and Kaguya), which may just be bias since IN was my first game. I'm also a fan of Patchouli, Nitori, Reimu, Sukuna, Sanae, Youmu, Ran, and Kogasa. Yeah, the more I remember, the more I realize I was pretty big into the series actually. Unfortunately, I'm pretty terrible at the games, with my crowning moment of achievement coming from 1CCing IN on Normal. I do have over 1,000 Touhou songs/remixes on my iPod, though haha. Really need to check back in and see what the groups I listen to have done since 2013.

We had a guy by the name of Protein who was really good at the games, and he got me into them pretty soon after I started going to tourneys, so I've essentially known about Touhou since I've been playing competitive Smash (which was back in early 2009).

 

[tofu951753]

Hey guys, do any of you know how to shadow sneak out of hitstun? Also, is it possible to put this on the AT's on the stickied post?

 

[Lavani]

I've just been mashing Shadow Sneak after getting hit to do it. I'm not sure if there's anything more to it than that, but it seems to work well.

Spoiler: Examples

If it isn't working when you try it, I'd assume it's because you can only cancel weak hitstun (jabs, first hit of Shulk/ZSS/Sheik fsmash, low percent hits, etc).