Social The Perfect Specimen Of A Man Returns!- A Wario Return Thread

[popemanz]

Dudes I think dtilt into dash attack is an actual huge deal, it kills BOWSER at 136% from mid stage, and it usually has around a 25-35% window depending on the character, but on bigs and heavies its like 50% or so. And since dtilt is so safe to use you can kill extremely well from neutral if you can get a dtilt

Oh and are we considering the new buffed utilt and nair to be some of his best moves or are they still kinda bad? Also is ff uair good in neutral or is it, as well, still kinda mediocre in neutral

watch gluttony for examples he my fav pro player now

 

[MERPIS]

You ever just stop to think that up air might be one of the best up airs in all of ultimate? It comes out decently quick combos into itself or up tilt for stupidly good damage is a true combo into both parts of waft depending on percent, its safe on shield against the vast majority of the roster, its spammable in neutral due to it having nonexistent landing lag, it hits stupidly close to wario and it deals a stupidly meaty 13% for a move like it, only thing it can’t really do is kill but I’ve gotten FF Uair to Uair deaths at I think around 110% or so, and on its own it actually kills at like 150% which is still decent.

 

[popemanz]

You ever just stop to think that up air might be one of the best up airs in all of ultimate? It comes out decently quick combos into itself or up tilt for stupidly good damage is a true combo into both parts of waft depending on percent, its safe on shield against the vast majority of the roster, its spammable in neutral due to it having nonexistent landing lag, it hits stupidly close to wario and it deals a stupidly meaty 13% for a move like it, only thing it can’t really do is kill but I’ve gotten FF Uair to Uair deaths at I think around 110% or so, and on its own it actually kills at like 150% which is still decent.

no it just is other than maybe ike

 

[MERPIS]

no it just is other than maybe ike

I like your thinking boye

 

[_Keno_]

I don't think tweek really streams, but he might play on Cosmos stream since they are both in the LOFT. Just watch his sets at Let's Make Moves. Other players to watch are TheReflexWonder or just Reflex. He came in second at Kumite in Tennessee. He was a top Wario in Smash 4. Those VODs should be on the VGBootcamp youtube because they streamed the event. The last player to watch out for is Gluttony. He is the second best player in Europe for Smash 4 behind Mr. R and he's been maining Wario since brawl. He won Wanted which was a french tournament and he also won Valhalla 2 solo-maining Wario. VODs are going to be your best bet to learn more things you can do Wario. There probably won't be many guides.

Haha Reflex plays again? He was the BEST wario in Brawl as well, able to beat m2k's metaknight in several tournies. Quite a player. I recommend watching him.

 

[C-G]

You ever just stop to think that up air might be one of the best up airs in all of ultimate? It comes out decently quick combos into itself or up tilt for stupidly good damage is a true combo into both parts of waft depending on percent, its safe on shield against the vast majority of the roster, its spammable in neutral due to it having nonexistent landing lag, it hits stupidly close to wario and it deals a stupidly meaty 13% for a move like it, only thing it can’t really do is kill but I’ve gotten FF Uair to Uair deaths at I think around 110% or so, and on its own it actually kills at like 150% which is still decent.

I can think of like 10+ Uairs that are better, so no, not really

 

[MERPIS]

I can think of like 10+ Uairs that are better, so no, not really

Lol good one

 

[C-G]

Lol good one

DK, Mewtwo, Lucina, Chrom, Incineroar, Palutena, Ganondorf, Peach/Daisy, Ness, Mega Man, Cloud, Ike. And those are the one's I'm confident in.

Wario's Uair is extremely good. Unfortunately, Uairs are almost always extremely good moves, so while Wario does get a lot off of them, a bunch of other characters ALSO get a ton off it.

 

[Rakurai]

Wario's uair is easily one of the best,

It does above average damage, combos into itself and other moves, has respectable kill power, has almost no landing lag and has a fair bit of disjoint to boot.

I wouldn't say any of those uairs are necessarily better overall, just better in certain situations (And the same goes for Wario's).

 

[Pakky]

I love this boy!

Beat my friend's

Was a hard ass fight but I've been labbing vs and he is pretty good.

 

[popemanz]

I love this boy!

Beat my friend's

Was a hard *** fight but I've been labbing vs and he is pretty good.

only bad against chrome and ike

 

[MERPIS]

Wario is pretty much fair game against any top tier that isn't named marth and lucina

 

[Sari]

Since I use a Switch Pro Controller, how should I map my buttons to best use Wario?

 

[MERPIS]

How does Wario fare against the top tiers?

 

[C-G]

How does Wario fare against the top tiers?

Loses to Chrom until Chrom's feet leave the ground

Even matchup with Inkling. So long as he never gets Roller'd Wario has advantage.

Olimar's Pikmin lose to lingering hitboxes so yeah....

Shulk is tough but manageable, as only a few of his moves give him Marth levels of coverage. He's all about range over hitboxes

Wolf can be tough. He's an all rounder, but he can also force you to do something, has a get off me move, and Blaster. Not to mention Sheik Fair. Until you get him offstage anyways. Skill based

Fox is like Wolf but without Sheik's Fair. Even.

Unless you run into his tilts, Snake should be easy to out maneuver. Easy fight.

Young Link has to box with you if his projectiles aren't doing it. And due to Wario's mobility, they usually aren't. Still, swordie AND projectiles. Even.

Palutena can't deal with people in her face. Favorable.

Power Crowns (Peach/Daisy) have to enter your field of control. They get more in trades and ground fighting, but Wario has a superior air game. Turnips are an issue though. Skill based fight

LucinAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAno.

 

[MERPIS]

Loses to Chrom until Chrom's feet leave the ground

Even matchup with Inkling. So long as he never gets Roller'd Wario has advantage.

Olimar's Pikmin lose to lingering hitboxes so yeah....

Shulk is tough but manageable, as only a few of his moves give him Marth levels of coverage. He's all about range over hitboxes

Wolf can be tough. He's an all rounder, but he can also force you to do something, has a get off me move, and Blaster. Not to mention Sheik Fair. Until you get him offstage anyways. Skill based

Fox is like Wolf but without Sheik's Fair. Even.

Unless you run into his tilts, Snake should be easy to out maneuver. Easy fight.

Young Link has to box with you if his projectiles aren't doing it. And due to Wario's mobility, they usually aren't. Still, swordie AND projectiles. Even.

Palutena can't deal with people in her face. Favorable.

Power Crowns (Peach/Daisy) have to enter your field of control. They get more in trades and ground fighting, but Wario has a superior air game. Turnips are an issue though. Skill based fight

LucinAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAno.

So the only tough ones are Chrom and Lucina? What about the RATs? Also ROB I guess if we wanna count him

 

[C-G]

So the only tough ones are Chrom and Lucina? What about the RATs? Also ROB I guess if we wanna count him

The electric rodents want to box. Wario wants to box. He has fast air buttons to escape combos and he hits MUCH harder on stray hits.

The thing about Wario is that he's so explosive and his tools are so good now that he can fight almost any matchup. He can consistently land hits and those hits lead to big payoffs, along with multiple tools for multiple options. He WILL find the hits and he WILL land a Waft. It's an inevitability at this point.

Disjointed hitboxes are the only thing that can stop him, but most of the swordies have significant holes in their gameplans that lead to extreme wall-out potential. Lucina is the total package of shutting down Wario's goals. If this were a matchup chart, it'd be Wario's 7-3 matchup, while everything else is 5.5-4.5. Even Chrom

 

[MERPIS]

The electric rodents want to box. Wario wants to box. He has fast air buttons to escape combos and he hits MUCH harder on stray hits.

The thing about Wario is that he's so explosive and his tools are so good now that he can fight almost any matchup. He can consistently land hits and those hits lead to big payoffs, along with multiple tools for multiple options. He WILL find the hits and he WILL land a Waft. It's an inevitability at this point.

Disjointed hitboxes are the only thing that can stop him, but most of the swordies have significant holes in their gameplans that lead to extreme wall-out potential. Lucina is the total package of shutting down Wario's goals. If this were a matchup chart, it'd be Wario's 7-3 matchup, while everything else is 5.5-4.5. Even Chrom

But does he now have the neccessary kill power that he desperately needed?

 

[Rakurai]

His kill power honestly hasn't changed much from Smash 4, but his kill options/setups are easier to connect with thanks to his overall better frame data.

Down tilt into dash attack also gives him a new way of scoring kills that can be fished for rather safely due to the former being safe on shield.

 

[C-G]

Honestly, Dash attack being a kill move means a lot, but the biggest thing is that for the first time in his lifecycle, his edgeguard game leads to genuine kills instead of being airdodged out of consistently.

 

[MERPIS]

Honestly, Dash attack being a kill move means a lot, but the biggest thing is that for the first time in his lifecycle, his edgeguard game leads to genuine kills instead of being airdodged out of consistently.

Wait so his edgeguarding is actually good now? I know dair leads to some spooky crap at the ledge since his hands dont cancel the move once he goes into the ground with them but is the rest of it that good too?

 

[Alexplz]

Question on Dtilt to linked dash atk. At first glance, it would seem that because you can't buffer the dash, Ftilt comes out instead and does not link. Is there a shortcut for easily performing instant dash attack at the first possible frame? Presently I'm doing dash>Cstick forward to get the dash atk to come out for the combo.

Furthermore, what are the best kill confirms? Is there a better way to practice the waft combos than waiting around in training for it to charge?

 

[MERPIS]

Question on Dtilt to linked dash atk. At first glance, it would seem that because you can't buffer the dash, Ftilt comes out instead and does not link. Is there a shortcut for easily performing instant dash attack at the first possible frame? Presently I'm doing dash>Cstick forward to get the dash atk to come out for the combo.

Furthermore, what are the best kill confirms? Is there a better way to practice the waft combos than waiting around in training for it to charge?

Hold the cstick don’t click it.
Also spawn a bunch of items to eat which charges waft faster, not a good way to charge it but its still good. Also as for kill confirm, ff uair, nair, utilt, and uthrow all combo into waft, though with uthrow only the headbutt will combo, you also have dtilt to dash attack, ff uair to uair. I think you also have a nair or fair tech chase with dash attack, dair offstage nukes a lot of recoveries since it’s a weak meteor but still a meteor. It sends right down

 

[Alexplz]

Hold the cstick don’t click it.

I don't follow - you mean if I hold the cstick forward that it will somehow prevent Ftilt coming out and instead do dash atk?

 

[MERPIS]

I don't follow - you mean if I hold the cstick forward that it will somehow prevent Ftilt coming out and instead do dash atk?

Yes, I tested it its proven

 

[C-G]

Wait so his edgeguarding is actually good now? I know dair leads to some spooky crap at the ledge since his hands dont cancel the move once he goes into the ground with them but is the rest of it that good too?

Chomp, Fair, and Dair can all kill at respectable precents, with Bair killing even earlier. Yes, Fair can kill, and not even exclusively off gimping.

And that's not even going into the terror of the Bike

 

[MERPIS]

Chomp, Fair, and Dair can all kill at respectable precents, with Bair killing even earlier. Yes, Fair can kill, and not even exclusively off gimping.

And that's not even going into the terror of the Bike

Biiiiiike? You cant tell me that and not go over bike

 

[C-G]

Biiiiiike? You cant tell me that and not go over bike

Item Bike is a kill move now. If you throw it it has respectable KO potential. Because of how ginormous it is, the numerous angles you can throw it at, and it being comparatively safe if you throw it from the ledge, it's a fantastic tool vs anyone offstage.

All of the old setups work too. Bike into Waft hitbox extension on ledge to catch two frames, walk off with Bike to create a quick hitbox, walkoff with bike to extend Dair/Nair/Waft, and so on

 

[MERPIS]

Item Bike is a kill move now. If you throw it it has respectable KO potential. Because of how ginormous it is, the numerous angles you can throw it at, and it being comparatively safe if you throw it from the ledge, it's a fantastic tool vs anyone offstage.

All of the old setups work too. Bike into Waft hitbox extension on ledge to catch two frames, walk off with Bike to create a quick hitbox, walkoff with bike to extend Dair/Nair/Waft, and so on

So in smash 4 bike had terrible knockback?
Also if you know would you mind telling me how dair works at ledge

 

[C-G]

So in smash 4 bike had terrible knockback?
Also if you know would you mind telling me how dair works at ledge

The old Bike was a setup tool. It basically causes 0 knockback and hitstunned people, allowing for combos, but it was never a setup tool by any means. When thrown from the ledge it could basically steal jumps by bouncing on an enemy underneath it until they died.

Uh, what do you mean about it working at the ledge?

 

[MERPIS]

The old Bike was a setup tool. It basically causes 0 knockback and hitstunned people, allowing for combos, but it was never a setup tool by any means. When thrown from the ledge it could basically steal jumps by bouncing on an enemy underneath it until they died.

Uh, what do you mean about it working at the ledge?

The hand hitboxes being weird they hit below the ledge and spike people

 

[C-G]

The hand hitboxes being weird they hit below the ledge and spike people

All of Dair's hitboxes except the last one is a light spike, So long as that last hit doesn't connect, it will spike, but that can be easier said than done.

 

[MERPIS]

All of Dair's hitboxes except the last one is a light spike, So long as that last hit doesn't connect, it will spike, but that can be easier said than done.

Alright so its still good to use in case

Alrighty moving on from his edgeguarding. What do people think are wario’s worst matchups? This is a little hard since his moves are so stupidly good but hes gotta have a few losing oned

 

[Alexplz]

Yes, I tested it its proven

I tested this in training and I still have no idea what you're talking about. I did learn however that you CAN in fact buffer a dash during the ending frames of moves, but it appears to be a slightly tighter window than say, buffering an attack.

 

[MERPIS]

I tested this in training and I still have no idea what you're talking about. I did learn however that you CAN in fact buffer a dash during the ending frames of moves, but it appears to be a slightly tighter window than say, buffering an attack.

I’ll show you later when I get the opportunity

 

[MERPIS]

Actually I’m not cause the video thing on this game is actually pure ****

What you actually have to do is wait until your dash actually comes out and flick the c stick while still holding the control stick to dash

 

[Alexplz]

Actually I’m not cause the video thing on this game is actually pure ****

What you actually have to do is wait until your dash actually comes out and flick the c stick while still holding the control stick to dash

Yeah bud I think we're on the same page here. I was just wondering if there's a way to specifically buffer dash attack I guess. It's just a little tight to buffer the dash and hit the c stick forward in order to get it to link.

 

[MERPIS]

Yeah bud I think we're on the same page here. I was just wondering if there's a way to specifically buffer dash attack I guess. It's just a little tight to buffer the dash and hit the c stick forward in order to get it to link.

It's awkward cause I got it before while testing a k rool dthrow to dash attack kill set up at 120%. But I can't seem to replicate it 100% perfectly it shouldn't really matter though since no character really requires it.

 

[Sari]

So if I use a Switch pro controller, how should I map my buttons to best utilize Wario?

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Which stages do you guys think are the best for Wario? Maybe it's because I'm so used to FG but I really hate Battlefield.

WarioWare is especially good because the left and right blast zones being super close make his Waft, Chomp, FTilt, BAir, DAir and Shoulder Bash kill much sooner. One thing you can try practicing on that stage is falling through the platform above the edge and using BAir or B-reversed Chomp for predicting regular or attack getup.