The Original Midna for Brawl thread. (Debate the Wolf here!)

[<π]

You guys are hopeless. -__-

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Why are the Wolf Link supporters still posting here?


OK, fine.

Spoiler

Let's remove Ganondorf too since He's only in the cutscene after you beat the Mirror temple, and one more battle at the end of the game. It's not THAT big of a deal.

Yeah, I guess it doesn't matter that he's the main boss in every single Zelda game, while Midna's

Spoiler

true form is completely unimportant to the series and even to Twilight Princess. Her being turned back into her form is just a resolution to the conflict. It's like having the normal versions of cursed townspeople in the game.

Really a terrible, terrible idea right there.

This is exactly what I was talking about. One. You cannot prove that Wolf Link would have a more interesting moveset than Lone Midna because they don't exist in Brawl yet.

I don't have to see it to know that the same creature riding a four legged animal that attacks alongside it would be much more entertaining than that creature becoming a Mewtwo clone. A floating magic user that has only one limb (the hand on her head) for a viable physical attack? That's nothing like Mewtwo's telepathy and tail at all.

Midna's trademark appearence is NOT on Wolf Link. She is her own character and her Imp design is her trademark appearence. Wolf Link does not define Midna. As for

Spoiler

her Twilight form, it would be welcome in my opinion but not necessary. It also doesn't mean Lone Midna has to fight with it.

Except that throughout 99.9999% of the time you're a Wolf, Midna rides on your back, and is seen on your back in all the character art?

So how long HAVE you been Sakurai? Again, this is all unfounded speculation on your part. I believe Lone Midna is MUCH more original than a Midna/ Wolf Link combination because there is no limit to the moves she has. Also, If you define Wolf Link's moves as a more innovative version of Midna, than you're confusing the character Midna, with the unit of Wolf Link and Midna. Wolf Link's moves belong to Wolf Link alone. Not Midna.

Speculation it may be, but it's not at all unfounded. There actually is a limit to the moveset she has. For instance, if Midna pulled out a radish and threw it at you, you'd say "What the hell? Since when does Midna use radishes in Twilight Princess?". Midna's moveset is limited to Magic (which can be sectioned into magical projectiles, stuns, and teleports), Physical (the hand on her head is the only viably painfull thing here), and potentially, Wolf Link. You see, once you realize that Midna's moveset is defined by the game from which she came, you realize that Midna and Wolf Link would make Midna's moveset more varied by adding different attacks rather than "Midna uses hand, Midna uses hand, Midna uses hand, Midna uses hand" or "Midna uses magical projectile #1, Midna uses magical projectile #2 that does exactly the same thing".

Finally, your last statement is irrelevant. I'd appreciate it if you didn't move this conversation away from whether or not Midna and Wolf Link would be a better character in Smash than Midna to the semantics of whether Wolf Link is different than Midna and Wolf Link. You know what I mean.

Wrong again. It's completely relevant. The more Midna can do in the game, the more it could show up in Brawl. In fact, the very idea that Midna is capable of such power could be shown through new moves implimented in Brawl that we haven't seen yet. Can I prove this? No. But it is still very much relevant, especially when Sakurai can (not will) but can consider this.

I say it's irrelevant since a character's actual power is scaled down into balance. All that matters, for Smash, is the degree to which the character's moves are original. By original, I mean not only different than other characters, but that every move is different from every other in the moveset. So, no, Midna's move's power is not relevant to this conversation.

As for the blundering idiot comment, you're the one posting in the wrong forum.

What should have happened, actually, is that this thread and the original would be merged with a poll at the top, and then a few example moveset suggestions edited into the original post. Anyway, I've got too much free time to let people disagree with me.

 

[alpha n00b]

tingle IS more popular than midna, so if any fairy-type thing is going to make it in brawl, it's him.

 

[Destruction_King]

Yeah, I guess it doesn't matter that he's the main boss in every single Zelda game, while Midna's true form is completely unimportant to the series and even to Twilight Princess. Her being turned back into her form is just a resolution to the conflict. It's like having the normal versions of cursed townspeople in the game. Really a terrible, terrible idea right there.

Apparently, the concept of sarcasm elludes you. I'm not talking about

Spoiler

Midna's true form.

I'm talking about Midna in general. She's very important to Twilight Princess, and saying she isn't is rediculous. Apparently, you missed that.

I don't have to see it to know that the same creature riding a four legged animal that attacks alongside it would be much more entertaining than that creature becoming a Mewtwo clone. A floating magic user that has only one limb (the hand on her head) for a viable physical attack? That's nothing like Mewtwo's telepathy and tail at all.

Once again, all you do is assume. You assume that Midna would fight like Mewtwo despite the fact that Sakurai said he doesn't want anything remotely close to a clone. By the way, you also conflicted with your own statements by saying

I say it's irrelevant since a character's actual power is scaled down into balance. All that matters, for Smash, is the degree to which the character's moves are original. By original, I mean not only different than other characters, but that every move is different from every other in the moveset.

By this logic, then Midna will fight nothing like Mewtwo. So stop disproving yourself, and stop assuming you know exactly how Wolf Link and Lone Midna will fight. And as for the "One limb to attack" argument, Kirby has no legs but manages to kick. If he wanted to Sakurai could figure something out.

Except that throughout 99.9999% of the time you're a Wolf, Midna rides on your back, and is seen on your back in all the character art?

Once again you're missing the point. Midna= Midna. Wolf Link= Wolf Link. Midna=/= Wolf Link. They are two different characters. Only Midna in her Imp form reflects Midna as a character. Link and Midna aren't attatched you know.

Speculation it may be, but it's not at all unfounded. There actually is a limit to the moveset she has. For instance, if Midna pulled out a radish and threw it at you, you'd say "What the hell? Since when does Midna use radishes in Twilight Princess?". Midna's moveset is limited to Magic (which can be sectioned into magical projectiles, stuns, and teleports), Physical (the hand on her head is the only viably painfull thing here), and potentially, Wolf Link. You see, once you realize that Midna's moveset is defined by the game from which she came, you realize that Midna and Wolf Link would make Midna's moveset more varied by adding different attacks rather than "Midna uses hand, Midna uses hand, Midna uses hand, Midna uses hand" or "Midna uses magical projectile #1, Midna uses magical projectile #2 that does exactly the same thing".

Finally, your last statement is irrelevant. I'd appreciate it if you didn't move this conversation away from whether or not Midna and Wolf Link would be a better character in Smash than Midna to the semantics of whether Wolf Link is different than Midna and Wolf Link. You know what I mean.

Defined by the game she came from. I'd love to know the moveset you'd have given Fox or C. Falcon or Zelda if you were forced to give them moves based soley on the game. If Sakurai wants to make stuff up, he will. He's done it before. He'll probably do it again. And if it's anything like Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, those moves will probably appear in new games.

The idea that Wolf Link and Midna aren't the same character is the basis of my argument. I've siad this so many times already, but what's one more? I JUST WANT TO PLAY AS MIDNA. Is that so hard to understand? Is it so wrong for me to play as one specific character and not feel like I'm playing as Wolf Link with extra baggage?

Posting this again:

I say it's irrelevant since a character's actual power is scaled down into balance. All that matters, for Smash, is the degree to which the character's moves are original. By original, I mean not only different than other characters, but that every move is different from every other in the moveset. So, no, Midna's move's power is not relevant to this conversation.

OK, fine. Give Lone Midna an original balanced moveset, and there's no problem. What's your point?

Why are you fighting me here? Go post in the Wolf Link thread if you want him so badly. I don't want to fight. But I refuse to give in to those who say it's wrong for me to want Lone Midna for Brawl. Do you see me posting in the Wolf Link Forum now that they've specified it as being Wolf Link only? Of course not, because I don't care. I'm here to post why I want Lone Midna for Brawl. And if you're not cool with that , then that's YOUR problem dammit!

EDIT: @ Alphan00b: No... just... no.

 

[Black/Light]

But you CAN'T infer about Midna and state it as fact! You even stated you're basing everything on Wolf Link and Midna (and lone Midna) on your opinion and best judgement. But that's not good enough!

When did I state ANYTHING as fact!!!! Saying most likely =/= saying fact!! My gooddness, I just said this in the post you quoted!

I can guarentee you that if Wolf Link is put in Brawl, when I push left on my Joystick, I'll be moving Wolf Link to the left, and NOT Midna. There is a 100% chance that this will happen. Therefore, did I choose Midna as a character? No. I chose Wolf Link.

You would be moving them BOTH as one. Sorry if you don't see it like that.

I want to play as Midna. Only Midna. No one else. When Someone asks me,"hey DK. Who do you use?" I want to say "Midna." Not "Midna and Wolf Link." Not "Wolf Link with some little Imp attatced to his back who miraculously grabs onto his fur while falling 360 degrees from 400 feet in the air."

You could just say Midna if you want to, no need to even let "Wolf Link" come out your mouth. (Thats beside the point and is kind of pointless but I wanted to point that out)

That good enough for you?

It makes me see your stand alil more. But if I where to say my thoughts on your chosen stand than I think we would be in a even larger argument.

But let's take it further. I will acknowledge the FACT that there are people out there who would like to see WL in Brawl. People like you. People not like me. You have your various understandable reasons. A 4 legged character would be interesting. it could POTENTIALLY (but not factually as of yet but most likely) make Midna/ Wolf Link faster. and could wind up being a good character.

Added just about everything I was going to say in the bold.

This thread is for the people like me. People who want Midna to fight (literally) on her own two feet. People who are discouraged about playing as two characters at once, and people who would like to see a more independent Midna in the game.

YES!!! And is it SOOOO F****ing wrong for me, the guy on the other side, to ask you all, the people that want her solo, to give me YOUR reasons for wanting solo Midna other than wolf Link hate?!?!?! I asked, one of you all stated some BS a$$ reasons like " their hit box would be as big as DK", I shot those BS reasons down and on the page before this I GAVE a example of some good stand alone reasons for her to be solo that didn't sound like just wolf link hate and never even toched on WL. THATS what I wanted from one of you, but everyone just kept talking about WL and making up BS reasons that he shouldn't be with her!

Therefore, the people who want Wolf Link in the game, people like you, are discouraged from posting or arguing here (Which you are doing, hence this post) and are encouraged to post in the Wolf Link thread.

Wow, so we can't even come over to ASK why you all wanted her solo. . .

No, I'm saying that extra damage would be a bad but potential decision on Sakurai's part. And Sakurai cares if WL can land on his back because he's the one who has to program a model who can fall upside down but not land that way.

. . You know good and well that I mean't reg folk (not Sarukai). And I hope that you can see that when I say "most likely" I use it the same way as you use "potential" as in not stating something as FACT but saying it COULD happen.

YES! Thats's the basis of my argument! That's the argument the supporters for this thread are trying to make! Midna should not have to have a shared moveset!

Well it seems like alot of you all just like to make up bad reasons for her to be chosen as a team character and few reasons for her to be solo (I, myself, made a better argument for her to be solo a page ago than I has seen from any of you.).

 

[Black/Light]

You are always trying to argue.

From dictionary.com...

Argue
verb (used without object)
1. to present reasons for or against a thing
2. to contend in oral disagreement; dispute
3. to state the reasons for or against

Not sure if you understand the meaning behind 1-3.

No where did it say that ASKING someone to give you a reason for something when you originaly don't inten or plan on stating your reasons against something. Why? Because thats not arguing, it's asking.

asked , ask·ing , asks
VERB:
tr.

1:To put a question to
2:To seek an answer to: ask a question
3:To seek information about

Not arguing, asking. But sadly it becomes a argument when I dissagree with the answer I get. So I started by ASKING but got BS answers so I started AGRUING.

 

[Devastlian]

No, I'm saying that extra damage would be a bad but potential decision on Sakurai's part. And Sakurai cares if WL can land on his back because he's the one who has to program a model who can fall upside down but not land that way.
!

Huh? Mr. Sakurai is the director. A team upwards of 30-40 people is making this game and at least half of a dozen of which are programmers.

I just wish people would respect the, upwards of 29-39, other people that are making this game. Mr. Sakurai is the one deciding what gets in or not and other such directorial jobs (and I'm in no way questioning his genius or anything like that) but Sora and The Studio need some praise as well.

Anyway, carry on then.

 

[Destruction_King]

Black/Light, let me restate what I've already said to answer your question.

Your arguments for Solo Midna, the ones you used on the last page, were based strictly on a "what if" scenario. I already said that my main argument for a lone Midna in Brawl is not based on a series of what ifs. So. Let me summarize the three main points I'm trying to make about Midna being alone in Brawl.

1. I do not want Midna to share so much as one move with any other character.

2. I want to play as Midna herself, and control every aspect of her playing style. No one elses.

3. I want to see Sora (thank you Devastilian) expand Midna's moveset with new moves based on her Twili powers. Not Wolf Link's attacks.

Alright?

 

[Xx swift xX]

+rep to Komayto for being a noob but still coming in and tellin peeps what's what.(rest assured, i didn't read your post, but it looked pretty long and convincing).
+rep to Paranoid Android, because you said stuff that just made me wanna yell, "you got TOLD!!!" As far as midna goes, she has a big helmet. that sh**'s pretty **** ugly. Also, I think midna would just be another magic character. We all saw how Mewtwo and Zelda turned out in Melee, let's not make another huge mistake like that. mind you, i'm not discussing Wolf link, i'm discussing Midna. I think I'd rather see the Fairy Trio (Navi, Tatl, and Tael) get supersized and put into brawl. They could be like that Magus Sisters in FFX...........I'm going way off topic. sorry

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Defined by the game she came from. I'd love to know the moveset you'd have given Fox or C. Falcon or Zelda if you were forced to give them moves based soley on the game. If Sakurai wants to make stuff up, he will. He's done it before. He'll probably do it again. And if it's anything like Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, those moves will probably appear in new games.

Fox has a blaster. You work from there. The "G deflector shields", I'm grossly speculating, are the basis for the Shine. Everything else? Well, you make it up. Zelda is a different story, though. She uses Din's Fire, Naru's Love, and Farrora's Wind, from there, you had some generic punches and kicks. As for C. Falcon - Did the manga come before or after Smash? Cause there was definitely a Falcon Punch in there. Anyway, you have a point: Sakurai can make up a moveset anyone, but why would you throw aside a character whose moveset writes itself? Whatever. Obviously, I'm not going to convince you.

 

[Komayto]

Xx swift xX, that's a strange reason to +rep me considering that you don't even agree with me.

Well, I may be kinda out of the current topic here, but I feel like I just have to say this.

. . .Midna can do the aerials if you can't see him doing them.

...you KNOW what I mean. I mean the WL&M team as a whole by that. It is a four legged character with an imp on its back. The jumping itself would look incredibly odd. True, that character would have many ways to attack, but when I think about it I only see really stiff, Wario-like movements. If it was a more comical looking four legged character, then they could give him some strange overblown moves and jumps, but Wolf Link needs to fit in with the more "realistic" Smash characters like Link, Samus and such. Sure, those characters don't look odd double-jumping around, but that's because they're more...human. We're used to seeing that in video games. Can you see Wolf Link jumping straight up? Maybe you can, but I can't.

And about the whole "lack of reasons to have her solo that don't bash WL" thing, it goes both ways, really.

 

[kaid]

Differences include but are not limited to, all ariels (nairs are close, but what else can Midna do for a nair), all tilts (except Utilt, but I play Link and love that thing to death, Midna needs it and it fits her), all throws except B throw (seeing as it is done in TP, Midna should do it in brawl), jab, smashes and all B attacks.

The similarities are basically the B throw, Utilt and maybe the super (if you put what I think you put since you claim I copied the entire moveset).

I only claim you copied the Midna parts. As a midna-only supporter, you of course ditched the Wolf half of the moveset, ant put your own spin on timing. Your Fthrow, in particular.

I do wonder about your B move though... what would make it different from Mewtwos, Samus's, and Lucario's B moves?

Mewtwo's damages others while charging, while Lucario's would not be able to hold a charge, and Samus fires uncharged bolts in the air

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Sakurai will just pick (assuming Midna gets in at all) the form that he feels brings the most to the game. Maybe it is Midna alone, maybe its her on Wolf Link? Would Wolf Link offer more moves? I say yes because there are two chars in one. Would Wolf Link with Midna be more complicated to design? Probably, yes.

Remember the Ice Climbers did not fight together during their game. But the duo fighting element was their most famous trait and their means of fighting. So I don't think that everything that happens in the game is a basis for which form will get in.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Having not played TP yet, I'm not really at full liberty to judge which version is ore suitable, though from what I've seen in both threads the only real deciding factor is opinion. Well, my personal opinion is that Midna should be on her own, mainly for the reasons Destruction King and Komayto said. From what I've seen of Midna she looks like she has a lot of potentil ==al as a character, and while Wolf Link may add to that potential, it wouldn't just be Midna anymore. And I also have trouble seeing Wolf Link and Midna fighting without it looking incredibly awkward. Think about it, why are all the most requested pokemon bipedal when there are so many quadrupeds to choose from? It's because people can't see them as potential brawlers, and Wolf Link is no different (and arguably is even more awkward as he has a rider on him). Yes, potentially it could be a diverse and interesting moveset, but it also has the potential to be awkward and bad, so saying it's the better option is merely opinion. There's also the option of there being too many Links, as with Link confirmed and a high chance of Cel Shaded Link getting in (he appeared more times on Sakurai's poll than any other Zelda character), Wolf Link would just be overkill. I'm not even that keen only even having two Links or any character for that matter (which is why I partly want ZS Samus to be a transformation character, though I want it to work well and allow me to use ZS Samus whenever I want).

I'm not trying to start an argument, this is all merely my opinion and I'm as much entitled to it as you are to yours. Arguing over this is ridiculous though, as neither side is right nor does either side have any evidence to back up their preference besides speculation and opinion. No one here is going to back down, so it's really just better for the Wolf Link supporters to discuss him back there, and allow the supporters of solo Midna to discuss her in this topic, before we start having pages repeating the same points over and over again

 

[<π]

Well said Luke, a very intellegent post that I agree with whole heartedly.

As for the arguing thats taken up quite literally 40+ posts its kind of depressing and I'm honestly a little disapointed in all of you who are diving into it. (And that went to people on both sides mind you.) This thread was made (yep I'm saying it agian) to put an end to pointless arguing and simply discuss ideas and implementaions for Midna.

Also, the moveset contest. I'll finish on a high note. I think I'll start scoring them as they come in, I may send off mini cirtiques so that you guy can edit your movesets a little based on my very unhumble opinions, but we'll see, hahaha.

 

[Skler]

I do wonder about your B move though... what would make it different from Mewtwos, Samus's, and Lucario's B moves?

Mewtwo's damages others while charging, while Lucario's would not be able to hold a charge, and Samus fires uncharged bolts in the air

I haven't read the Lucario thread. I think Midna needs a projectile though, I just can't think of a better one right now. When in doubt, go with a charge!

 

[HiddenTiger]

The main reason I think that putting Midna on Wolf Link is a bad idea is this: Midna would become almost unnecesary in the process. Think about it: Who would the player control running, jumping, and moving in any way? Link. Who would have most of the A button attacks, and most likely 1 or two B moves? Link. If they added Wolf Link, all of the focus would go into making him work as a character. Midna probably wouldn't even do anything other than maybe one or two B move magic attacks. Other than that, she'd be pure decoration. And any self-respecting fan of Twilight Princess should know that she deserves much more than that.

 

[kaid]

^ Why would Midna be unnessisary? Wolflink had no way of attacking anything above him, and only 1-2 possible specials without Midna's assistance. Also, Grabs are SO Midna.

In the moveset I posted, 13 of the 23 moves are all Midna. I fail to see how over half the character's moves could be considered disrespect.

 

[Destruction_King]

Having not played TP yet, I'm not really at full liberty to judge which version is ore suitable, though from what I've seen in both threads the only real deciding factor is opinion. Well, my personal opinion is that Midna should be on her own, mainly for the reasons Destruction King and Komayto said. From what I've seen of Midna she looks like she has a lot of potentil ==al as a character, and while Wolf Link may add to that potential, it wouldn't just be Midna anymore. And I also have trouble seeing Wolf Link and Midna fighting without it looking incredibly awkward. Think about it, why are all the most requested pokemon bipedal when there are so many quadrupeds to choose from? It's because people can't see them as potential brawlers, and Wolf Link is no different (and arguably is even more awkward as he has a rider on him). Yes, potentially it could be a diverse and interesting moveset, but it also has the potential to be awkward and bad, so saying it's the better option is merely opinion. There's also the option of there being too many Links, as with Link confirmed and a high chance of Cel Shaded Link getting in (he appeared more times on Sakurai's poll than any other Zelda character), Wolf Link would just be overkill. I'm not even that keen only even having two Links or any character for that matter (which is why I partly want ZS Samus to be a transformation character, though I want it to work well and allow me to use ZS Samus whenever I want).

I'm not trying to start an argument, this is all merely my opinion and I'm as much entitled to it as you are to yours. Arguing over this is ridiculous though, as neither side is right nor does either side have any evidence to back up their preference besides speculation and opinion. No one here is going to back down, so it's really just better for the Wolf Link supporters to discuss him back there, and allow the supporters of solo Midna to discuss her in this topic, before we start having pages repeating the same points over and over again

I'm giving you + rep for this.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Yes, I saw your moveset, but thing is this: You aren't Sakurai, nor do you work on his team. Therefore, any moveset you or any other fan-made moveset cannot be presented as viable evidence to any point.

Here's what I'm getting at: Smash Bros is by and large a physical fighting game. Special moves only really take up a very small portion of a fighters overall move list. That being said, Midna could not possibly be very physically imposing herself while riding on top of Link. In all liklihood, the player would control Link for the most part. Most of their moveset would, realistically, involve Link biting, pouncing, scratching, mauling, etc. the enemy, while Midna would just sit there until the player used one of the (in all probability) very few magical attacks that were given to them. It seems entirely likely, if not probable, that Midna would be an accessory, a gimmick to give Wolf Link, the main character, some range. Midna deserves so much more than that.

Besides, we don't need three versions of Link in Brawl anymore than we need three different Mario's or Samus'.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

tingle IS more popular than midna, so if any fairy-type thing is going to make it in brawl, it's him.

What in the **** are you smoking that makes you think that?

 

[Skler]

Tingle is popular, but his popularity comes from everybody hating him. Midna is popular because everybody loves her.

 

[Dotcom]

I am pretty sure someone has mentioned it before me but if they went in the game Duo,A La Ice Climbers what would happen if one died. For example Someone let's say for example Hector from Fire Emblem(Hector For Brawl) chopped Midna off of Wolf Link's back.Now would Wolf Link bite the dust,would he alter his attacks,as in unable to perform any moves she is involved with .Or would they be inseperable.

 

[kaid]

@Hiddentiger: Are you saying that you believe Sakurai would deliberately make a bland moveset when there is other options?

Consider Samus. Her schick is guns and explosives, but it sounds like you would think he would give samus all punches and kicks for melee. But he gave her shortrange flamethrower moves and grapple moves to fill out the "guns" requirement.

If you view Midna like samus's guns, it seeems obvious that she will be used for more than just the specials.

 

[Black/Light]

@Hiddentiger: Are you saying that you believe Sakurai would deliberately make a bland moveset when there is other options?

Consider Samus. Her schick is guns and explosives, but it sounds like you would think he would give samus all punches and kicks for melee. But he gave her shortrange flamethrower moves and grapple moves to fill out the "guns" requirement.

If you view Midna like samus's guns, it seeems obvious that she will be used for more than just the specials.

And to add to that, look at M2. The only phy attacks he does are with his tail, everything else is specials.

And look at Zelda, she mostly does specials from what I can remember.
Edit- WTF! Another name change?!? (0_o)

 

[Destruction_King]

Tingle is popular, but his popularity comes from everybody hating him. Midna is popular because everybody loves her.

Add that to the fact that Twilight Princess is now the Big Man on Campus in terms of Zelda games. Just like adding Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time into Melee, Sora is probably going to want to add someone from Twilight Princess. After all, Brawl and TP are both on the Wii, and in all Liklihood, Ganondorf, Zelda, and definately Link, will be in thier TP getup.

Midna has a great chance for Brawl. Better than *cringe* Tingle anyway.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Okay... it seems we are on unstable ground... but I'm going to assume that we've got ahold of our senses and are done argueing about wether Wolf Link + Midna would be better or not than Midna alone.

Back to what this thread was intended for. Again, I'll be getting a moveset up soon... hopefully.

As for Tingle... you dissapoint me, Alpha.

 

[kaid]

I will then open up the original thread to wolf/no wolf debate.

In the words of Steven Colbert... "Do you have the balls? Well, do you?"

 

[Black/Light]

Black/Light, let me restate what I've already said to answer your question.

Your arguments for Solo Midna, the ones you used on the last page, were based strictly on a "what if" scenario. I already said that my main argument for a lone Midna in Brawl is not based on a series of what ifs. So. Let me summarize the three main points I'm trying to make about Midna being alone in Brawl.

1. I do not want Midna to share so much as one move with any other character.

2. I want to play as Midna herself, and control every aspect of her playing style. No one elses.

3. I want to see Sora (thank you Devastilian) expand Midna's moveset with new moves based on her Twili powers. Not Wolf Link's attacks.

Alright?

Well, as the closer cause I don't think Im going to be doing much on the web for a week (finnals), I knew why you wanted her solo. I had a feeling about it before I read the few post you boldly stated it in seeing as you have always had the attitude that Wolf Link would take away from her character as a whole (for some odd reason. . ). It's just that. . .

1) I find your reasons exstreamly selfish (yes, thats how I see it).
2) I wanted to hear others make reasons that differed from that (Most others here either say "can you see a wolf doing so-and-so!?!?" or anything that makes them just sound like they think it would be too "odd" or w/e)

And the maded up reasons that I posted on the other page where just fake reason I think she should be solo. They where not aimed at being proof of anything, just to show a few things fake me thinks she could do solo if they made her.
But w/e (just spent 3 hours doing homework so aint too much fight in me now).

p.s. #3 could be done with her being on wolf Link. Just wanted to point that out.

@Komayto- Don't know if you have played TP but WL can jump upward just fine. Sorry if you can't see a good flow to Wolf Link because I can see everything from his roll (a low side ways flip/ a side ways roll)/ jumps (Back flip when doing a backwards 2x jump/ looks slightly upward and does a poching like jump for the reg upward jump) running/ dashs/ bites and so on.

But w/e, right now Im going to a art school (full time) where I learn alot about form and stucture so I guess I can't expect everyone to be as creative as I when it comes to conceptualizing movements and scale relationships between things.
We are just different I guess.

Well, thats the closer for me (you can reply if you want. . . can't say I will reply back right away.).

 

[Falco&Victory]

Midna is awesome. She should play solo, because she does more than wolf-link ever does.

Spoiler

Did you see what she did to zant?

Her super could be

Spoiler

the fused shadow form or what she did to Zant.

Either way, Midna is is awesome.
For all of you who beat the game, wasn't

Spoiler

the ending just crap?1:I miss the old Midna, 2:YTF would she break the mirror, Gannon is dead, and 3:How about Ganon's Boar Form for Brawl?

 

[Mrpibb]

Midna is awesome. She should play solo, because she does more than wolf-link ever does.

Spoiler

Did you see what she did to zant?

Her super could be

Spoiler

the fused shadow form or what she did to Zant.

Either way, Midna is is awesome.
For all of you who beat the game, wasn't

Spoiler

the ending just crap?1:I miss the old Midna, 2:YTF would she break the mirror, Gannon is dead, and 3:How about Ganon's Boar Form for Brawl?

Spoiler

why boar ganon? id rather have dorf or the pig from ALttP

 

[Nietendodude]

Midna is awesome. She should play solo, because she does more than wolf-link ever does.

Spoiler

Did you see what she did to zant?

Her super could be

Spoiler

the fused shadow form or what she did to Zant.

Either way, Midna is is awesome.
For all of you who beat the game, wasn't

Spoiler

the ending just crap?1:I miss the old Midna, 2:YTF would she break the mirror, Gannon is dead, and 3:How about Ganon's Boar Form for Brawl?

She broke it because she didn't want someone or thing that is just as bad as gannon to hurt link or Zelda or the light world again!

 

[HiddenTiger]

@Hiddentiger: Are you saying that you believe Sakurai would deliberately make a bland moveset when there is other options?.

Nooooo... I'm saying that Midna can't do much more than specials, and potentially grabs, while riding a wolf.

Let's consider this hypothetical situation: Let's just say for some reason, you get into a fist-fight with somebody. You are riding a horse, they are on their own two feet. How well do you think you would hold your own in that fight without having the horse do anything? Chances are, you wouldn't. You'd have to run the horse into the other guy to fight, since you can't really throw/block punches/kicks while riding the animal.

You see, even with Smash Bros.' loose hold on the laws of physics, you still can't have a person riding on any creature and still claim that the rider is the one you fight as. Unless, of course, you suggest that all of Midna's A attacks be ranged enough that it can not only get past the Link hitbox, but also have enough range to hit somebody, in which case she would be considered severly broken. Wolf Link is just not practical in anyway.

 

[Destruction_King]

Well, as the closer cause I don't think Im going to be doing much on the web for a week (finnals), I knew why you wanted her solo. I had a feeling about it before I read the few post you boldly stated it in seeing as you have always had the attitude that Wolf Link would take away from her character as a whole (for some odd reason. . ). It's just that. . .

1) I find your reasons exstreamly selfish (yes, thats how I see it).
2) I wanted to hear others make reasons that differed from that (Most others here either say "can you see a wolf doing so-and-so!?!?" or anything that makes them just sound like they think it would be too "odd" or w/e)

And the maded up reasons that I posted on the other page where just fake reason I think she should be solo. They where not aimed at being proof of anything, just to show a few things fake me thinks she could do solo if they made her.
But w/e (just spent 3 hours doing homework so aint too much fight in me now).

p.s. #3 could be done with her being on wolf Link. Just wanted to point that out.

@Komayto- Don't know if you have played TP but WL can jump upward just fine. Sorry if you can't see a good flow to Wolf Link because I can see everything from his roll (a low side ways flip/ a side ways roll)/ jumps (Back flip when doing a backwards 2x jump/ looks slightly upward and does a poching like jump for the reg upward jump) running/ dashs/ bites and so on.

But w/e, right now Im going to a art school (full time) where I learn alot about form and stucture so I guess I can't expect everyone to be as creative as I when it comes to conceptualizing movements and scale relationships between things.
We are just different I guess.

Well, thats the closer for me (you can reply if you want. . . can't say I will reply back right away.).

I'm just going to say one thing. You say my reasons for wanting Lone Minda in Brawl are selfish? I have one thing to say to that:

Absolutely.

I've been telling you, and everyone else here who disagrees on my Midna position, about what I want. That's completely selfish. But it's also valid. Some people Want Wolf Link in Brawl, some want Midna. At this point, it's up to the individual as to what they want more, and so every argument is a selfish argument.

I don't want anyone to mix moves with Midna. This is what I want. Can I speak for anyone else? No. Do some people agree with me? Yes. Does everyone agree with me? Obviously not.

No matter which side of this you're on, it comes down to your own selfish individual preference. That's why this thread was created. So that everyone who prefered Lone Midna could talk and agree with each other, instead of fight with the people who want Wolf Link in Brawl. Which is why I continue to wonder why Wolf Link supporters still post here.


Reply if you wish. I've got work tomorrow.

 

[kaid]

So, wait, you are saying that Midna has this MASSIVE hand that can reach for yards, and somehow cannot use it while on Wolflink's back?

As for it being broken... DK has exactly that kind of hit box, and I don't see anyone complaning about his reach.

 

[kaid]

^ But if you cannot come up with supporting evidence, over and above your personal wants or dislikes, what makes you think Sakurai would share your wants and dislikes?

Without evidence, this thread is no better than, say, the Shadow the Hedgehog thread.

 

[HiddenTiger]

You know, that hand, however useful it may have been in TP would end up being serverly limited in Brawl, and if that's all they used for her A moves in Brawl, I'd get bored with her pretty fast. Yeah, I can totally see that:

A: slap with magic hand
forward tilt: punch with magic hand
Forward smash: punch harder
up tilt: slap upward
up smash: punch upward
down tilt: slap downward

I think you see where I'm going.

But now, another point rises here. You, yourself, have made several points on how Midna would do most of the work, and how it's unnecesary to have Link attack. Why, oh why, then is it necesary to have Wolf Link if he doesn't need to do anything?

 

[Destruction_King]

^ But if you cannot come up with supporting evidence, over and above your personal wants or dislikes, what makes you think Sakurai would share your wants and dislikes?

Without evidence, this thread is no better than, say, the Shadow the Hedgehog thread.

Like you can? The supporting evidence is made up of fabricated movelists and potential arsenals for characters. Regardless of Wolf Link, Midna's almost a shoe in for Brawl due to popular support from players, the success of Twilight Princess, and the need for new and original characters for Brawl.

The evidence for Midna is the same in both the Lone Midna and Wolf Link threads. She's a good character. She's very popular. She's original. You don't even have to assume that. It's already true.

What we're doing is getting to the nitty gritty of the Situation. The question is, once Midna is in Brawl, will she fight by herslef, or mounted on Wolf Link? The evidence we would give to Sakurai and Sora is why Midna should be in Brawl in the first place. And there's a lot more evidence for Midna's inclusion into Brawl (see above,) than Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

[kaid]

Because, first off, all the actual promotional stuff from nintendo has the two together, so it seems reasonable Sakurai would take that for inspiration. Second, because there are things Wolflink would do better. For instance, backair and downward moves.

Having wolf claws and jaws also adds to Midna's options, giving her a more potentially varied moveset. (Midna could have hair, energy blasts, and so on alone, but on the wolf she can do all of that AND use the Wolf's attacks too.)

 

[kaid]

What of the fact that promotional materials for TP always put her on wolfback?

Circomstantial evidence is still a form of evidence.