The Original Midna for Brawl thread. (Debate the Wolf here!)

[Stryks]

Lol nvm him, he doesnt know the pwnage that midna is, well he does prefer zero over megaman what do u expect XD...

 

[<π]

It's good to see that some people really have good veiws on the uniqueness that their gameplay has and a idea of the rainbow of attacks they could have together.

Very good to see seeing as the "official" Midna thread gives 0 reasons for her to be sole and really just seems to be a "Wolf Link would take up moves so Midna sole!!" kind of topic.

The reason I want midna in the game is for the most part the same reason you would like her in it, because you want to. That is the only real fact here. The rest of the logic and reasoning that we've both created are more opinonary than anything.
You think midna and Link are a unique set of characters that would offer something new and unique to the game, you've also said that the two have a lot of possibilities for attacks. And I agree with you on these two points. It also been said a lot that midna is too weak to fight on her own, the game has proven this is false and you earilier Black/Light agreed that midna doesn't need wolf link at all. The rest of your argument (In this thread and the minda thread) have simply been arguing how bad midna would be. How she is too slow or too light how her moveset can't be done or how she is too bland.
Ironically my points (and the points of many other) almost mirror the reasons why you'd enjoy seeing midna with link, a unique character that'd offer a new unique move set to the game. And while I can't speak for others on this I also feel that midna is a strong character that would easily fit into the smash brothers game play. These points are just as opinionary as yours.

There are no concreate reasons Minda or Minda and Link should be in the game if there were there would be a need for any of these character threads, but the fact is we don't.

The reason I made the Midna thread was to avoid unsessary argument and bickering (especially arguing that gains neither side anything) so we could talk about the characters we enjoy, thats been spelled out in the first post of the thread since day one. I mean, you guys can continue rant about how bad of a character choice midna is, spaming the midna thread with sarcastic and annoying remarks, etc. Or you can just... stop.

 

[alpha n00b]

Lol nvm him, he doesnt know the pwnage that midna is, well he does prefer zero over megaman what do u expect XD...

HEY!!! >_<

 

[kaid]

*Reads contest rules*

Mwahahah.
----------------------------------

Midna on Wolflink.

Announcer: "The winner is... Midna!"
Kirby hat: Midna's headdress.
Colors: Midna's coloration (expecially headdress coloration) is deturmined by what color is chosen. Wolflink's pelt also shifts colors.

Stats:
Size: 4 (samus height)
Weight: 3
Traction: 5
Jumping: 2
speed: 4
Reach: 6(!)
Power: 3

<B: Wolflink howls, stunning those in front of him. Effects are similar to Mewtwo's disable, but cannot knock opponents away. On the other hand, it affects a larger area, and cannot be reflected. Fast, but laggy... so make sure you hit.
^B: Midna jumps in a chosen direction, then wolflink leaps after her, like in the game.
B: Tentacles reach out from Midna's headdress, aimed like PK thunder. Just like what she used against Zant. Although they have a small range for a projectile, it's NOT a projectile. (will crack Fox's shine or Ness's absorber)
vB: Midna extends an energy field when heald. Charges for greater size, and when releaced, all enemies in the zone are hit away.

jab: A basic "slash" in wolf form. combos like fox/falco's jab, without the rapidfire.
Ftilt: A leaping wolf lunge. (Wolflink's Jump attack)
uptilt: Midna's headdress reaches a hand out slightly and sweeps backward, comparable to Link's or Mewtwo's uptilt.
downtilt: Wolflink digs at the ground in front of him. Meteor. (Dig)
Dash a: Wolflink plows into whatever is in his path. (Wolflink's Dash)

Nair: Midna giggles and spins her arms, launching zelda-esque sparkles in Twilight colors. Multi hit, and very large hitbox, reaching out to cover wolflink.
Uair: Midna turns, looks up, and slashes with a sparkle-enhanced arm.
Fair: Midna raises her arms, charges a bolt of twilight energy, and with an evil grin, launches it down in front of her and Wolflink. Range like Mewtwo's disable, speed like Gannondorf's Fair, and is a SPIKE, not a meteor.
Bair: Backkick as wolflink
Dair: Claw swipes. Multi-hit, short, with nonexistant lag.

Usmash: Midna's headbutts with her crown, like Ness. High knockback, high damage, low lag.
Dsmash: Wolf Spinattack. Fast but laggy.
Fsmash: Like the Ftilt, Wolflink leaps foreward, but with a small explosion as he lands. (Based off the second-to-last hidden skill as Normal link.) The explosion size depends on how much it was charged.

Grab: Midna reaches out with her headdress some distance, and drags the opponent close. (Midna pulling Link into Twilight animation)
Grab a: Wolflink rips at the opponent.

Fthrow: Holding the opponent with the headdress, Midna crosses her arms and charges a wave of twilight energy, then launches the opponent away with it.
Dthrow: Midna flicks them up in the air, then slams them to the ground.
Uthrow: A quick upward flick, that can immediately be comboed off of with a jump.
Bthrow: Midna twists the opponent to the side, then throws them back with a low trajectory. (Gannon boss fight)

Taunt: The Giggle.
Super Smash: Midna uses the Shadow Shards.

------------------------------

Beat THAT!

 

[Skler]

Kaid, I'm pretty sure you didn't read the first post .

BlackLight, Midna never does ANYTHING good on Link's back. You didn't give any examples of her doing anything aside from the energy fields and giant hand on wolf Link's back. She needs Link, not wolf Link. She proves she can fight in the twilight BETTER then Link can with her massive ownage of everything. If you want proof of that then riddle me this

Spoiler

Who killed Zant and kills pretty much all twilight beasts?

Wolf Link is a huge horizontal hitbox. That's about DK sized horizontal. Of course, smash tends to resize characters as they see fit, so wolf Link and Midna could be completely different sized, as could Midna. But they would form a pretty big hitbox because anything riding anything will be a big hitbox. About them being short, I coulda sworn pichu was like a foot or less, in smash that isn't the case. Midna would have to be decent sized, as would wolf Link, so it would at LEAST be Link height with the length of a wolf.

Why don't you give good reasons for her being on wolf Link (aside from the "she needs wolf Link in TP" one, that thing has been milked dry)? Or you could leave the thread that was made to prevent arguements about her being on wolf Link or not (read the first post).

 

[kaid]

Kaid, I'm pretty sure you didn't read the first post .

On the contrary, I'm getting it by on a technicality. I'm not DISCUSSING wolflink, I'm submitting an entry into the moveset contest... which has no such restriction.

 

[<π]

nah, he's in the green. Kaid's move set will be judged.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

And while I can't speak for others on this I also feel that midna is a strong character that would easily fit into the smash brothers game play. These points are just as opinionary as yours.

Exactly, reguardless of whether she is on WL or not, she will (hopefully) be a good character.

On one hand, I know Midna is indeed strong enough and has enough variety to be her own character. But on the other hand, I also see Midna being equally as strong on WL. She doesn't loose anything by being mounted on WL, but she does gain. She gains enough weight to be a middle-weight instead of light. And she also gains the means of performing physical attacks through WL's feral instincts (not that she couldn't have delivered her own attacks.) And, of course, there is always the fact that, for the first time ever, we have a four-legged character who actually is very plausible for Smash, therefore, introducing a new style of combat.

I really support both sides (and I will be happy either way), but I favor WL and Midna a bit more simply because I see more potential (pros, upsides, benefits, call them what you want) to Midna and WL than just solo Midna.

 

[Kashakunaki]

It doesn't matter, Kaid knows he's just be an *** and he's using the technicality as a guise. People, please don't bother talking about Wolf Link here. This thread was made so we could avoid that. We don't need argueing in two threads. Don't come to the Midna thread to support Wolf Link and don't go to the Wolf Link and Midna thread to support just Midna. Wow, problems solved! How simple was that?

I'll get a moveset up later.

 

[Destruction_King]

It doesn't matter, Kaid knows he's just be an *** and he's using the technicality as a guise. People, please don't bother talking about Wolf Link here. This thread was made so we could avoid that. We don't need argueing in two threads. Don't come to the Midna thread to support Wolf Link and don't go to the Wolf Link and Midna thread to support just Midna. Wow, problems solved! How simple was that?

I'll get a moveset up later.

Exactly! This thread isn't here to make waves, and since it's obvious this thread was set up for lone Midna supporters, there's no reason to even mention wolf Link.

There's a perfectly good Wolf Link support thread on the first page of the Brawl Character Discussion. It's not like you don't have some place else to post.

 

[Black/Light]

The reason I want midna in the game is for the most part the same reason you would like her in it, because you want to.

I knew we both want her in. . . . I just wanted to know why people want her alone .

That is the only real fact here. The rest of the logic and reasoning that we've both created are more opinonary than anything.

Not really. I use facts about what Sarukai said, gameplay from TP and TP's story line to show why they would most likely be a team character. Thats why I want them together as a team character. You mostly try to argue that she can do w/e so WL aint needed and so on (your opinion)

You think midna and Link are a unique set of characters that would offer something new and unique to the game, you've also said that the two have a lot of possibilities for attacks. And I agree with you on these two points. It also been said a lot that midna is too weak to fight on her own, the game has proven this is false and you earilier Black/Light agreed that midna doesn't need wolf link at all. The rest of your argument (In this thread and the minda thread) have simply been arguing how bad midna would be. How she is too slow or too light how her moveset can't be done or how she is too bland.

I would like to talk about the Bolded first. When did I say she didn't need Wolf Link? I said that I don't put Link and Wolf Link into 2 different places meaning that their the same character to me (which they are) and we all know that she needs Link. Never then I say she can do everything he can. And I was arguing that she would have bad STATS if she where alone. I never said she would be a bad CHARACTER. The stats arguing came from someone saying "Midna should be solo because she would be smaller and faster solo". I was also arguing that Wolf Link would up her stats by alot.
And I did not, nor anyone I can remember right now, say her move-set "couldn't be done". I said that it would add (greatly) to her uniqueness if Wolf Link where with her because we have a floater and a mage and I don't think the idea of her using her hair for every lil phy thing would be interesting in the long run.

Ironically my points (and the points of many other) almost mirror the reasons why you'd enjoy seeing midna with link, a unique character that'd offer a new unique move set to the game. And while I can't speak for others on this I also feel that midna is a strong character that would easily fit into the smash brothers game play. These points are just as opinionary as yours.

On some points, yes, we both have our opinions on the matter. But when you try to argue things we can both SEE from TP (Midna's speed/ does she need Link/ her powers and what not) and try to twist them around into this mix of unreasonable proof that she should be alone than you step into a arguement where Im not going to take what you say as fact untell I get some real proof.

The reason I made the Midna thread was to avoid unsessary argument and bickering (especially arguing that gains neither side anything) so we could talk about the characters we enjoy, thats been spelled out in the first post of the thread since day one. I mean, you guys can continue rant about how bad of a character choice midna is, spaming the midna thread with sarcastic and annoying remarks, etc. Or you can just... stop.

Im not trying to argue. . . just asking for a reason. Is that so bad? I ask why you all think she should be alone and I get BS like "She would be faster alone/ With Wolf Link she would be DK sized (wtf?!?!)/ She doesn't need Wolf Link/ she was better with out Wolf Link in TP" and with you I get twisted takes on the story line of TP ( as in "She doesn't need Wolf Link. She can do everything he can and didn't need his help at all") . . . which is something I can look at and see proof or lies in.

And like I said in the post you quoted, the real arguement isn't if she CAN work alone (we all know she can) it's which way would Sarukai most likely choose for her to be. Right now I having gotten anything to say that he would most likely want her alone from what he has said about the way he is choosing characters.

 

[kaid]

I make no statement about wolflink, nor do I argue for or against his entry.

On the other hand, if my Midna moveset wins this competition, I think that speaks for itself, doesn't it?

 

[Black/Light]

BlackLight, Midna never does ANYTHING good on Link's back.

Than why is that the only time she does anything?

You didn't give any examples of her doing anything aside from the energy fields and giant hand on wolf Link's back.

Yeah, cause thats what she did. . .

She needs Link, not wolf Link.

Their the same f***ing thing!

She proves she can fight in the twilight BETTER then Link can with her massive ownage of everything.

Like what?

If you want proof of that then riddle me this

Spoiler

Who killed Zant and kills pretty much all twilight beasts?

1.

Spoiler

She tapped into her ancestor's power (the fused shadow peaces) to kill Zant (who was already betten up pretty badly). So yeah, I said that in the other post. It's the same reason she hulked out (using the FS).

2. Link kills them well she helps him by targetting them. . . one more reason for team work if you ask me.

Wolf Link is a huge horizontal hitbox. That's about DK sized horizontal. Of course, smash tends to resize characters as they see fit, so wolf Link and Midna could be completely different sized, as could Midna. But they would form a pretty big hitbox because anything riding anything will be a big hitbox. About them being short, I coulda sworn pichu was like a foot or less, in smash that isn't the case. Midna would have to be decent sized, as would wolf Link, so it would at LEAST be Link height with the length of a wolf.

Yeah, your right, they do tend to resize things. . . that are of exstream size differences to the mid size for characters. They had to resize Pika/ Pichu/ Kriby because they where too small but they didn't seem to resize Fox/ Mario/ Wario/ Pitt or other characters who where always around mid size in structure. They would reach a hight of less than Fox because they do have a hight that is reasonable in their game like the other mid sizers (bout 3 1/2 feet tall). And Wolf Link looks to be about as long as the IC in his hirozontal hit box because he realy isn't very long (I think that may be because the TP divs wanted him to look more controlable or w/e by boxing his longness).
Oh yeah, when something small rides on top of something short they can be short together. They arnt 2 different characters that have to both be resized to fit the other characters ANTHAN added to each other, they are one character that woud be resized together as a short-mid sized character. (Think of a slightly taller Pika under a shorter/ smaller pichu (because Midna is siting, not standing))

Why don't you give good reasons for her being on wolf Link (aside from the "she needs wolf Link in TP" one, that thing has been milked dry)? Or you could leave the thread that was made to prevent arguements about her being on wolf Link or not (read the first post).

1. Had you looked at that link you would know that I did give some reasons for them to be together in the other post to which I directed you. . . .alot of good reason in fact.
2. Im not trying to arguing jack. I was (in that post) looking for a good stand alone reason for her to be solo. Sorry if you can't come up with anything but BS. You don't have to say **** about WL if you have a good reason why you think she should be alone. Saying she would have a huge hit box with WL/ that her fused shadow power makes him unneeded in the end of TP/ that he eats up her move-set don't sound like a good reason for her to be solo to me atleast. Never wanted this to become a argument, just a simple answer. (Thats why I try to direct any talk of my reasons for them to be together at my huge post on the Wolf Link thread)
3. The only reason the first post gave for her to be solo is because the OP thinks she "deserves it" (W/e that means). Sorry if it's too much to ask for a good reason why Sarukai would choose Midna solo in a thread for those who think she should be solo.

 

[Skler]

Your entire argument on that Link is just you saying Midna alone would be a bad character. You call her slow (which you know she isn't slow, everytime she wants to move fast she does). You say she isn't unique. Theres a difference between M2 and Midna, that difference being everything except that they both float and can use magic. You might as well compare Marth and Link, they both use walk and use swords.

There is no way they would be short, wolf Link alone should be pika's height. Midna would probably make them about as tall as Link (she isn't tall, but her head + helmet is pretty big).
Midna alone would probably be roughly pika size. I still think wolf Link's horizontal hitbox is going to be pretty large, but it all depends on what the developers do (if they get in).

About Midna never doing anything off of wolf Link...

Spoiler

You play the game as Link, not Midna. So why would they have Midna go around killing everything? Of course they are going to make Link do most of the work. She always has the power of her ancestors (she has the FS now), so she can do what she did to Zant at any time.

Theres a difference between needing Link and needing wolf Link, Link can use the master sword, wolf Link can't. They are the same person, but Midna doesn't need Link's wolf form, she needs the human one.

You are arguing. A lot. Really, how can you say you AREN'T arguing? You ask for reasons, you get reasons, then you argue about them. Just leave the thread that was made to stop arguments.

 

[kaid]

Your entire argument on that Link is just you saying Midna alone would be a bad character. You call her slow (which you know she isn't slow, everytime she wants to move fast she does).

Could you tell me when she did this? I don't remember. As for being a bad character, well, I'll let the judges decide, in the moveset contest.

About Midna never doing anything off of wolf Link...
You play the game as Link, not Midna. So why would they have Midna go around killing everything? Of course they are going to make Link do most of the work. She always has the power of her ancestors (she has the FS now), so she can do what she did to Zant at any time.[/SPOILER]

This is still about LoZ: Twilight Princess representation in brawl, correct? or is this just another "This character is awesome, they should be in" thread?

 

[Kashakunaki]

*inserts vast slew of profanities*

WHAT THE **** DID DESTRUCTION AND I JUST SAY!? Get the Wolf Link arguements the **** out. Go make a topic called "Wolf Link + Midna or Midna Thread." We don't need paragraphs upon paragraphs and senseless debate babble. That's the reason this thread was made, to avoid that crap. As for you, Kaid, you're being an instagator and you know it, so stop it.

 

[Destruction_King]

You wanna know why Midna should fight alone?

I hear a lot about how Midna never fights off of Wolf Link. So? Zelda never did a ****ed thing even as Shiek prior to her inclusion in Melee. Yet Sakurai gave her not one, but TWO movesets. In fact, if Midna does fight alone, it gives Sakurai the ability to design new moves that fit in Brawl, rather than moves we saw in Twilight Princess. Her ability to use Twili magic could also be further develope, and maybe even included in future Zelda installments. After all, the Warlock Punch was.

Midna's short stature wouldn't prevent her from being in Brawl. If Kirby is 8 inches tall, He would barely make it up to Link's calf in real life. But notice he is about as tall as Link's waist (tall enough to get hit by the spin attack.) If she was resized, Midna would probably look to be around Pikachu or Ness's size.

One big problem I keep asking that no one seems to be able to answer, is if Midna rode on Wolf Link, and she's constantly getting clobbered and sent into the air, how in the Hell does she stay on Wolf Link? I remember images of the Ice Climbers doing full 360s as they plummet to the ground. That would look **** silly if Midna was holding onto Wolf Link the entire time. And does W/Link and Midna take extra damage if he lands on his back? He couldn't even roll to get up!

But my final (and favorite) reason that Midna should fight alone, goes back into the reason that Super Smash Brothers is a fan based game. Logically, everyone is going to want to play a 2 on 2 battle using a team of Link and Midna, probably against Ganondorf if they get the chance.

Spoiler

Remember those moments in the final battle where Link and Midna pose with each other? She doesn't do that on Wolf Link.

But if Midna rides on Wolf Link the entire time, it really kills that illusion, and it will look like Link is fighting twice, (because he is.) Even in Melee, Young Link could be excluded from battles simply because he was a single lone character. But if you want to fight with Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and Midna, then it's going to Look kinda stupid with Link being his own teammate, or Link fighting himself for no reason.

 

[kaid]

You wanna know why Midna should fight alone?

I hear a lot about how Midna never fights off of Wolf Link. So? Zelda never did a ****ed thing even as Shiek prior to her inclusion in Melee. Yet Sakurai gave her not one, but TWO movesets. In fact, if Midna does fight alone, it gives Sakurai the ability to design new moves that fit in Brawl, rather than moves we saw in Twilight Princess. Her ability to use Twili magic could also be further develope, and maybe even included in future Zelda installments. After all, the Warlock Punch was.

This cannot be argued with words, which is why I entered the moveset contest. I await the judging with baited breath. Let's see who is the most original, while retaining the feel of Midna.

One big problem I keep asking that no one seems to be able to answer, is if Midna rode on Wolf Link, and she's constantly getting clobbered and sent into the air, how in the Hell does she stay on Wolf Link? I remember images of the Ice Climbers doing full 360s as they plummet to the ground. That would look **** silly if Midna was holding onto Wolf Link the entire time. And does W/Link and Midna take extra damage if he lands on his back? He couldn't even roll to get up!

It's not a problem in Twilight princess, why shoud it be one in Brawl?

 

[Destruction_King]

It's not a problem in Twilight princess, why shoud it be one in Brawl?

Wolf Link never lands on his back in TP. Only his side or his stomach. He is also never knocked into the air. At least not like what happens in SSB.

 

[Komayto]

...

This is incredibly stupid and pointless. It's obvious that neither side will suddenly change its views on the subject. All this arguing is ridiculous and seeing that it has simply moved over from one thread to another...

Egh, I'll surely look like a hypocrite after saying that, but I guess I just need to say it because I didn't really explain my preferrence in the other topic. So here's my opinion.

Hum.
Well, first of all, don't get me wrong, I would be happy either way, but I like the idea of Midna fighting alone a little bit more.

There's the whole thing about Sakurai wanting new characters with unique fighting styles. True, having Wolf Link in there would surely make for an unique character.
However, look at Melee's roster. There are many different fighting styles. You can't say that Zelda and Bowser fight the same way, because their fighting styles are completely different. But even then, none of them stray far from the usual character formula. When you're used to running and jumping around as Peach and then pick up Samus, it doesn't feel so awkward to move around that you'll feel like you have to learn running or jumping all over again. They're all very different, but they're also very similar. Even the Ice Climbers, who are probably the most unique character in SSBM, are not really all THAT different.

Looking at the confirmed newcomers, I personally think that Sakurai isn't looking for something as unique as WL&M, I believe that he looking for stuff like... Well, the best example here is Pit. He wields two short swords. This is new to Smash, it's unique while not looking out of place.
Wolf Link and Midna teamed up would be VERY unique, but it is a very different kind of unique. If SSBB had a character like this while the rest of the roster would be filled with conventional Smash characters, I believe that they would look like they're in there just for novelty. It would most certainly be what people call a gimmick character.

And I seriously don't see Wolf Link having any aerial combat with anyone. Whenever I try to think about it, I see really silly movements that certainly wouldn't suit a character like Wolf Link.


However, as I already said, I support both ideas. If done correctly, WL would be cool. The thing is, I think that it's near impossible to pull this off correctly.

 

[Nietendodude]

Who would win in a fight Midna or Link?
but still midna should be solo now that I think of it my thing is she is way to strong. She can lift a cannon with no problem. But still the more the marrier Midna for Brawl.

Also I thought of an entrance for her either:

1.She comes in with that black square effect
2.She comes in with the help of the twilight mirror
3.Wolf link brings her in on his back then leaves

I like Number 1 the best.

 

[Skler]

Could you tell me when she did this? I don't remember. As for being a bad character, well, I'll let the judges decide, in the moveset contest.



This is still about LoZ: Twilight Princess representation in brawl, correct? or is this just another "This character is awesome, they should be in" thread?

She moves fast when she

Spoiler

goes to defend Zelda, when she leaves the burning house and other times I don't really remember.

She isn't lightning speed but she sure isn't slow.

The thread is about Midna, not Twilight Princess (I think). If your moveset wins it doesn't mean wolf Link + Midna = good and Midna alone = bad it just means you came up with a good moveset.

 

[Stryks]

How fast is she?,

Spoiler

how about were she moves to a far unreachable part when ur wolf link? when u have to z target her and jump, she fast...

 

[Black/Light]

Before I hit the lot of you all with a slap of creative thought Im going to reply to some things.

Your entire argument on that Link is just you saying Midna alone would be a bad character. You call her slow (which you know she isn't slow, everytime she wants to move fast she does). You say she isn't unique. Theres a difference between M2 and Midna, that difference being everything except that they both float and can use magic. You might as well compare Marth and Link, they both use walk and use swords.

I NEVER said she would be a bad character, just that she would have the same stats as M2 which are bad but that doesn't make him a bad character either! I NEVER said she wasn't unique, just that WL would make her alot MORE unique.

And the fact that M2 and Midna float tells ALOT about what her solo stats would most likely be. Lets break M2 down. He isn't powerful or heavy which are 2 things that can effect speed. By those 2 stats being soo low you would think he would be fast. . . but he is slow. Why is he slow even with does 2 stats being low? Because of his way of moving (Floating). It makes no sense for a floater to be fast. Now lets look at Midna, we know she is light and she could have a bit more POW than M2 but she still floats which would make her slow. And unlike M2 she doesn't have ANYTHING in her game that shows her being fast so theres no reason for her to up and get speed when her way of moving is slow.

And Link has a sword/ sheld/ bow/ bomb bag/ boomarang (sp) well Marth has just a sword. If a character got in that had a sword and sheld or any other long heavy thing that would slow them down I would say that they would be slow like Link. . . not fast like Marth whos a character with one item.

There is no way they would be short, wolf Link alone should be pika's height. Midna would probably make them about as tall as Link (she isn't tall, but her head + helmet is pretty big).

Wolf Link would be around Pika on all 4s tall well Midna would have a body about Pichu size if they are together. Yeah, her helm is pretty big, but she would be sitting down which brings them to a Fox tallness and not Link tall.. And plus, it would probly be tooken as Pika's ears anyway.

Theres a difference between needing Link and needing wolf Link, Link can use the master sword, wolf Link can't. They are the same person, but Midna doesn't need Link's wolf form, she needs the human one.

Again with the "she doesn't need Wolf" BS. Thats not a reason and her own people's saying said that a beast would come to their aid. I getting tried of this argument over if she needs him or not because we can all see that in TP she does. It's not even a point to arguing that if you want her alone because it means nothing (I will show an example of this later on with you can pay attention long enuff).

You are arguing. A lot. Really, how can you say you AREN'T arguing? You ask for reasons, you get reasons, then you argue about them. Just leave the thread that was made to stop arguments.

Correction, I asked for a GOOD stand alone reason, not just anti Wolf Link/ she-can-do-good-all-on-her-own BS that you gave me. Just because I shot down your BS doesn't mean Im trying to argue. If you really wanted to give a good stand alone (meaning no "because Wolf Link is so-and-so" BS) you wouldn't have to say "Wolf Link" once, just talk about her. (I will do that later).

One big problem I keep asking that no one seems to be able to answer, is if Midna rode on Wolf Link, and she's constantly getting clobbered and sent into the air, how in the Hell does she stay on Wolf Link? I remember images of the Ice Climbers doing full 360s as they plummet to the ground. That would look **** silly if Midna was holding onto Wolf Link the entire time. And does W/Link and Midna take extra damage if he lands on his back? He couldn't even roll to get up!

Most of the stuff DK said in this post was crap so Im only picking one juicy part to hit.
1. I guess Midna looks " **** silly " grabing Wolf Link's fur locks all the time in TP .
2. Wolf Link and Midna can land on their side in place of their back. . .
3. K9s can roll. But with Midna Wolf Link could just do a very low side ways flip.

Wolf Link and Midna teamed up would be VERY unique, but it is a very different kind of unique. If SSBB had a character like this while the rest of the roster would be filled with conventional Smash characters, I believe that they would look like they're in there just for novelty. It would most certainly be what people call a gimmick character.

People can call characters like the ICs "gimmicks" all they want, it still doesn't mean that they are. And "conventional Smash characters"? I don't see whats so odd that they can't fit that title.

And I seriously don't see Wolf Link having any aerial combat with anyone. Whenever I try to think about it, I see really silly movements that certainly wouldn't suit a character like Wolf Link.

. . .Midna can do the aerials if you can't see him doing them.

She moves fast when

Spoiler

she goes to defend Zelda, when she leaves the burning house and other times I don't really remember

. She isn't lightning speed but she sure isn't slow.

Im pretty sure she teleported out of that house and her going to Zelda wasn't what I would call fast either. (Nor would I call the jumps fast)

But here it is!!! My example of a good stand alone reason that uses proof from her personal in TP, things she did in TP and stats proof from a character that moves like her in SSB with NO talk of Wolf Link that I have yet to see in this thread.

This is Me-you (<3, Skler, Stryks and anyone else that wants Midna solo but can't seem to not talk about Wolf Link and seem to want to twist up her most likely stats to make her seem better in that area) and anything I put in ( ) is must reg me and not me-you.

Midna is a very unique and interesting character. When it come to stats, she would be the inbodyment of what M2 stats where (YES, she is slow. She would probly be ali bit faster than M2 but still slow as dirt). But this isn't a bad thing because the one facture that makes M2 a victim to his stats is his size ( YES, Mew could pull off M2's stats alot better). His stats would work with a small character like Midna because of her size. And when it comes to game play they are both somewhat in the same area as in they both would be best used as mind game characters (even thou they are both VERY powerful in their respective games) and not just brawlers. Why do I say this? Because Midna is a tricky character. The magic that she uses is called "shadow Magic" so that adds even more reason for her to be a trickser character and not a complete fighter. She also causes Mischief and has a kind of cocky personality within her game so that can be added to the reasons for her to be a trickser. She is smart but not much of a fighter (like M2) so controlling her should be more of a "how well can you play mind games" than a hard core fighter like Fox. There fore, she doesn't need anything in her stats but mid power on attacks/ throw back because her moves and size could cover the "trickser" game play she needs.

She could use attacks like "shadow out" where she could become her shadow form. In this form she can't move but nothing can hit her (attacks past throuht her like shes not there). It would be like kirby's vB but she would just float/ fall very slowly well in this form and have a time limate for it just as he does (THIS, is something she can't do with Wolf Link so it applies to her only).
Also, she floats. If MK can glide with his bat wings than I see no reason she can't float-glide like him. (Also something she aint doing with Link)
She could also have the teleportation she has in her game. She would do a fast spin, turn into bubble things, than reteleport somewhere else. It would have as long of a range as M2's teleport (This is also something she can't do on Wolf Link. . . Notice that I/ Me-you didn't talk about or bash Wolf Link ONCE in these STAND ALONE reasons!).
She could also has a move where she puts her-self inside the Twilight field she does in the game to target enemies. This could be a counter where she can throw back projectiles by zipping them with her shadow magic (this CAN be done on Wolf Link but Me-You already has a good amount of stand alone reasons already. Thats just icying on the cake).

So Midna could prove, once and for all, that a character can be slow/ be mid powered/ be very light but STILL be great because of her size and moves like these (which results in her being hard to hit because of her size and evasion moves (Shadow out/ Teleportation/ Counter) which adds to her staying power and her "Trickser" like gameplay that relaies on mind games).

*comes back into Me-Me self*
THERE! I, a Wolf Link and Midna supporter who doesn't think she has a chance of being solo, just came up with stand alone reasons that didn't talk about or bash Wolf Link. I used proof from TP about her personality and her use of magic as support for my reasons why I think she should be alone and have the move/ stats that I listed (Whell, not me-me, just Me-you). I didn't say **** like " Wolf Link adds to her hit box/ Wolf Link takes up her moves/ She CaN Do So-aNd-sO so she doesn't need him/ she deserves to be solo" or w/e you all like to use as "proof" that she is better solo. The main point behind my reasons where that she would be the EXSTREAM TRICKSER character in this game because of her stats and attacks/ moves (I didn't try to change S*** about the look of her stats to make her seem like a better character in that area). By being with Wolf Link she becomes LESS of a trickser because he is a fighter. She goes from a 100% trickser protental in her move-set to 70%-60% tricker in her move-set which isn't good nor bad.

It's ashame (a Dam Dam shame) that I, someone that doesn't even want Midna solo, can make stand alone reasons with out saying anything about Wolf Link and only focusing on her personality and game as proof for my reasons yet you all can't seem to come up with anything other that "she deserves to be solo/ is to powerful to be with Link/ Wolf Link will make her bad".
Maybe I would have had some respect for this thread if it wasn't a) made originaly because the TC didn't care to look at the first page and see that the other thread was made for Wolf Link Midna fans (he made this at first because he wanted to boot us off he other thread) and b) If I had seen the TC make some stand alone reasons in the first post that clearly weren't "I think that this character is cool and that she would be better off solo because she DeSeRves it". But no, no one can seem to answer what would have been a easy question with out going into a anti-Wolf Link rant.

 

[Stryks]

I didnt read all of that cause its too early to sleep, cause thats what ur post is gonna make me do, but when I saw that both midna and M2 would have the same stats is Bull-****, couldnt say it better than that, she floats, bid deal, she is faster, shorter and would probably have stronger attacks...

 

[Black/Light]

Read before you say BS. If you read you would most likely know that I said she could be faster but still slow AND have more "POW".
*A$$*

 

[Eor]

I'm going to declare Black/Light wrong, even though I didn't read it, don't play Smash brothers, and could care less if the character was good/bad.

Pow.

 

[Stryks]

I didnt read all of that cause its too early to sleep, cause thats what ur post is gonna make me do...

Just wanted to make that clear...

 

[Black/Light]

. . . Thats in the beginning. You read one sentance and replied without knowing what it mean't.
I guess reading is for big kids. . .
Edit:vvv I don't care if you don't have enuff respect for me or my post to read the whole thing. . . just make sure that you don't reply to it or anything else I post if you haven't read anything but a few lines of said post. It causes missunderstandings and ends in someone repeating something thats been said long before.

 

[Stryks]

Yeah but didnt feel like reading it, like i said, will fall asleep...

 

[Skler]

My moveset, what now!

Kirby hat: Midna's helmet.
Color: Her helmet color.
Walk: A slow, casual float.
Dash: A fast float, comparable to the IC's running speed.

Jab- Midna uses her magic (the kind she uses to move huge things) and blasts the area in front of her with it. High knockback for a jab, just one jab, not multiple.

Tilts:

Ftilt- Midna uses her hair to slap the area in front of her. Horizontal knockback and high range. Decent lag though, seeing as she has to pull her hair back.

Dtilt- Midna quickly slides her hair along the ground to trip anybody in front of her. Medium range (because the hair/hand) goes low, has medium/low vertical knockback and can be cancelled with more d-tilts and other hair related moves (everybody should know how to cancel certain moves). The move would come out quick, and if not cancelled would have medium lag.

Utilt- Midna swings her hair/hand in an arc motion above her, medium vertical knockback and medium lag.

Smashes:

Fsmash- Midna turns her hair into the spike we all know and love and stabs forwards for high horizontal knockback and great range. Quite a bit of lag though.

Dsmash- Midna does a little jump and pounds the ground with her hair/hand sending all characters near her upwards. Medium knockback, not much lag but semi-slow startup time.

Usmash- Midna blasts the air above her with her twili energy causing high knockback with medium range and low lag.

Ariels:

Nair- Midna summons those little twilight particle things and has them swirl all around her, it sucks enemies in with all but the last hit and deals damage before hitting them out with medium knockback.

Fair- Midna does a frontflip, low knockback and direction depends on when during the move they were hit (think pika's uair).

Dair- Midna turns upside down and turns her hair into a spike and drills downwards. Multiple hits and a weak spike. Slowish startup and decent lag.

Bair- Midna does a Ness-esque horizontal backwards kick. High knockback, low lag and low range.

Uair- Midna swings her hair/hand above her, medium knockback and good range.

Dash attack- Midna unleashes twilight energy while running forward, similar to the Ness dash attack (but the knockback is more horizontal).
B moves:

Neutral B- Midna charges up twilight energy and can release it with another press of the B button. The energy would be like the stuff Midna uses to break wolf Link's chain.

Up B- Midna uses her warp power to go in the direction of her choosing, all enemies in the way get hit for low knockback.

Down B- Midna creates an energy field (the field gets bigger the longer you hold B) and then swings her hair/hand around her to hit every enemy in the field with horizontal knockback. Pretty laggy and high knockback.

Smash/side B- Midna vanishes, you hear her giggle and then she reappears (where she reappears depends on if the direction was smashed or just held, the move can also be stopped by pressing B so Midna doesn't move at all). No lag or knockback.

Grab stuff:

Grab- Midna uses her hair/hand to grab her opponent (high range grab).

Grab attack- Midna punches them with her own arm while holding them with her hair/hand.

Uthrow- Midna tosses the opponent upwards, low lag since her hair just needs to go straight down and medium knockback for a throw.

Dthrow- Midna slams them into the ground with her hand, medium lag and low vertical knockback.

Fthrow- Midna blasts her opponent with twilight energy, medium-high horizontal knockback and low lag.

Bthrow- Midna does her little twist thing and hurls the opponent behind her. Medium horizontal knockback and medium lag.

Super move:

Spoiler

Midna uses the fused shadows and becomes that big thing, pins an opponent to the ground and stabs with her sword (what she does to break the barrier around Hyrule castle).

Taunt: Midna holds a hand up to her mouth and giggles.

There you go, I've done my job (was too lazy to think of a better smash B).

 

[Destruction_King]

But no, no one can seem to answer what would have been a easy question with out going into a anti-Wolf Link rant.

Yeah. Not like we made movelists or anything. Not like we've mentioned on numerous occasions about the possibility of

Spoiler

Midna being able to transform into her true form.

Not like we've tried to Point out that we want her move list to be completely free for Shadow Magic attacks and moves that she and she alone can do. Not like we pointed out that moves created soley for Midna in SSBB would work not only in Brawl but in potential future Zelda releases.

I hate your arguments because all you talk about is potential movesets you make up yourself. Well maybe she'd be small and floaty. Maybe she'd have trickster moves. Maybe Wolf Link would only land on his side. Maybe Midna could do air attacks while Wolf Link fights from below. Maybe Midna wouldn't be able to hit with he stubby little arms. Maybe all her moves would be shadow based And Maybe WL would make a good character.

But you can't prove that! You can't say that everything you've argued is DEFINATELY going to happen. You build your arguments around your own idea of how Sakurai is going to make the game. You can't say WL would be as tall as Pikachu, because we haven't seen him! You don't know if WL or lone Midna would be fast or slow! They don't exist in Brawl yet!

But what I'm about to say (and what I've been arguing all along,) is true. There's no need to wait for Brawl to come out, or even an announcement as to whether Midna will be in Brawl.

1. If Midna is indeed put on Wolf Link, there will be some players who will view Wolf Link as the actual character, and Midna as a tacked on idea.

2. Wolf Link will not be able to land on his back. And if he does, Midna will either take extra damage, or her character model will go through the floor.

3. Midna's size, speed, and weight can be dictated by Sakurai himself. He will do his best to make her playable (not low tier) and true to her character.

4. Wolf Link's inclusion in Brawl with Midna will take away potential moves for Midna to use on her own. That is a fact.

OK. Your turn. Can you defend WL WITHOUT speculation.

 

[kaid]

@ Skler: looks like SOMEONE thought my moveset was interesting, seeing as they copied all of midna's stuff from it, aside from Upsmash and Fair.

 

[Black/Light]

Yeah. Not like we made movelists or anything. Not like we've mentioned on numerous occasions about the possibility of

Spoiler

Midna being able to transform into her true form.

Not like we've tried to Point out that we want her move list to be completely free for Shadow Magic attacks and moves that she and she alone can do. Not like we pointed out that moves created soley for Midna in SSBB would work not only in Brawl but in potential future Zelda releases.

*Finds the bolded alil odd seeing as

Spoiler

she aint a Imp in the end

*But w/e, thats pointless.
IDK why you quoted that part. . . .
If you look around in mostly every lil post you see people yelling "she doesn't need wolf link/ wolf links not important" ect. . .

I hate your arguments because all you talk about is potential movesets you make up yourself.

? ? ? What?

Well maybe she'd be small and floaty. Maybe she'd have trickster moves. Maybe Wolf Link would only land on his side. Maybe Midna could do air attacks while Wolf Link fights from below. Maybe Midna wouldn't be able to hit with he stubby little arms. Maybe all her moves would be shadow based And Maybe WL would make a good character.

But you can't prove that! You can't say that everything you've argued is DEFINATELY going to happen.

. . . I never said that anything is "definately" going to happen. I mainly only say "most likely" because IDK whats going to happen. I use "most likely" to say that by my logic such and such could happen. In fact, the only times I don't say "most likely" are those time when I figured that I had used that term enuff in said post so that one would infer that thats what I mean.

You build your arguments around your own idea of how Sakurai is going to make the game. You can't say WL would be as tall as Pikachu, because we haven't seen him! You don't know if WL or lone Midna would be fast or slow! They don't exist in Brawl yet!

Again, the words "most likely" come to mind. And I don't try to argue how he is making the game unless I use proof from what he said. For example, he said no anime characters. . . so that means no anime characters. OK?

1. If Midna is indeed put on Wolf Link, there will be some players who will view Wolf Link as the actual character, and Midna as a tacked on idea.

. . . That depins on how much of the move-set is Midna's and what they call their character (If they are just called "Midna" with 70% of the moves being hers than who cares what some @$$ thinks).

2. Wolf Link will not be able to land on his back. And if he does, Midna will either take extra damage, or her character model will go through the floor.

. . .So you mean that Midna would up and become a saperate character and take damage if they fall on their backs? And who cares if they land on their side?

3. Midna's size, speed, and weight can be dictated by Sakurai himself. He will do his best to make her playable (not low tier) and true to her character.

Yes, Sarukai is the one who will decide Midna's size and stats. . . Thats why we say "most likely" because we are not him and can only come up with our own concultions.

4. Wolf Link's inclusion in Brawl with Midna will take away potential moves for Midna to use on her own. That is a fact.

. . . Sarukai can very well just make him her legs if he wanted so thats not fact (that he would take away her moves. . . very likely but not fact). And is that supposed to be important? That she could end up sharing her move-set?

OK. Your turn. Can you defend WL WITHOUT speculation.

So I make the first completely stand alone list of reasons why I think Midna should be alone (even thou I don't) and now I have to defend WL WITHOUT speculation when you haven't defended Midna solo WITHOUT speculation?
Ok.
Start it off by defending Midna solo WITHOUT speculation first (cause you make it sound as if you already did for some reason.)

 

[Destruction_King]

But you CAN'T infer about Midna and state it as fact! You even stated you're basing everything on Wolf Link and Midna (and lone Midna) on your opinion and best judgement. But that's not good enough!

Let me put it this way. The only way I can make Midna walk, jump, dodge, and roll all by herself, without the aide of another living creature, is to not include Wolf Link in Brawl. I can guarentee you that if Wolf Link is put in Brawl, when I push left on my Joystick, I'll be moving Wolf Link to the left, and NOT Midna. There is a 100% chance that this will happen. Therefore, did I choose Midna as a character? No. I chose Wolf Link.

I want to play as Midna. Only Midna. No one else. When Someone asks me,"hey DK. Who do you use?" I want to say "Midna." Not "Midna and Wolf Link." Not "Wolf Link with some little Imp attatced to his back who miraculously grabs onto his fur while falling 360 degrees from 400 feet in the air."

I know, that unless Midna fights alone, I will never be able to just say Midna. And that is not what I want.

That good enough for you?

But let's take it further. I will acknowledge the FACT that there are people out there who would like to see WL in Brawl. People like you. People not like me. You have your various understandable reasons. A 4 legged character would be interesting. it could POTENTIALLY (but not factually as of yet) make Midna/ Wolf Link faster. and could wind up being a good character.

But that is NOT what this thread is for.

This thread is for the people like me. People who want Midna to fight (literally) on her own two feet. People who are discouraged about playing as two characters at once, and people who would like to see a more independent Midna in the game.

Therefore, the people who want Wolf Link in the game, people like you, are discouraged from posting or arguing here (Which you are doing, hence this post) and are encouraged to post in the Wolf Link thread.

On another note though.

. . . That depins on how much of the move-set is Midna's and what they call their character (If they are just called "Midna" with 70% of the moves being hers than who cares what some @$$ thinks).

That's a very arrogant and selfish statement. I would care. Most people on this thread would care. I don't want 70% of the moves to be Midna's. I want 100% of them to be hers. That's the point of this thread.

. . .So you mean that Midna would up and become a saperate character and take damage if they fall on their backs? And who cares if they land on their side?

No, I'm saying that extra damage would be a bad but potential decision on Sakurai's part. And Sakurai cares if WL can land on his back because he's the one who has to program a model who can fall upside down but not land that way.

And is that supposed to be important? That she could end up sharing her move-set?

YES! Thats's the basis of my argument! That's the argument the supporters for this thread are trying to make! Midna should not have to have a shared moveset!

 

[Kashakunaki]

Okay, Black/Light is a fountain of ignorance, Kaid is playing dumb, and everyone else has to reiterate crap that everyone else already knows or has said.

Please, just drop it people.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Anyone who is suggesting Midna's

Spoiler

true form, seen for less than 5 full minutes at the very end of the game

, isn't right in the head. In the same vein, how often is Midna seen OFF of Link? Lets see,

Spoiler

the cutscene in the beginning, when she tells you to find your way out of the prison cell, and one or two times near the end

.

Be honest: Does it make sense to have a character with a viable moveset, an original design and playstyle, and her trademark appearance NOT appear in a game like Smash, in favor of a moveset that would be less interesting and viable, a less original design and playstyle (single-character), and a scarcely seen form? No. It doesn't. If you're in Sakurai's shoes, you're going to go for the more original character with the better playstyle, the more original and better-working moves, and the most popularly advertised version of the character.


... And whether or not Midna is capable of incredible feats of power is completely irrelevant to the debate. (Hence me deciding you're all blundering idiots).

 

[Destruction_King]

Why are the Wolf Link supporters still posting here?

Anyone who is suggesting Midna's

Spoiler

true form, seen for less than 5 full minutes at the very end of the game

, isn't right in the head. In the same vein, how often is Midna seen OFF of Link? Lets see,

Spoiler

the cutscene in the beginning, when she tells you to find your way out of the prison cell, and one or two times near the end

.

OK, fine.

Spoiler

Let's remove Ganondorf too since He's only in the cutscene after you beat the Mirror temple, and one more battle at the end of the game. It's not THAT big of a deal.

Be honest: Does it make sense to have a character with a viable moveset, an original design and playstyle, and her trademark appearance NOT appear in a game like Smash, in favor of a moveset that would be less interesting and viable, a less original design and playstyle (single-character), and a scarcely seen form?

This is exactly what I was talking about. One. You cannot prove that Wolf Link would have a more interesting moveset than Lone Midna because they don't exist in Brawl yet.

Midna's trademark appearence is NOT on Wolf Link. She is her own character and her Imp design is her trademark appearence. Wolf Link does not define Midna. As for

Spoiler

her Twilight form, it would be welcome in my opinion but not necessary. It also doesn't mean Lone Midna has to fight with it.

No. It doesn't. If you're in Sakurai's shoes, you're going to go for the more original character with the better playstyle, the more original and better-working moves, and the most popularly advertised version of the character.

So how long HAVE you been Sakurai? Again, this is all unfounded speculation on your part. I believe Lone Midna is MUCH more original than a Midna/ Wolf Link combination because there is no limit to the moves she has. Also, If you define Wolf Link's moves as a more innovative version of Midna, than you're confusing the character Midna, with the unit of Wolf Link and Midna. Wolf Link's moves belong to Wolf Link alone. Not Midna.

... And whether or not Midna is capable of incredible feats of power is completely irrelevant to the debate. (Hence me deciding you're all blundering idiots).

Wrong again. It's completely relevant. The more Midna can do in the game, the more it could show up in Brawl. In fact, the very idea that Midna is capable of such power could be shown through new moves implimented in Brawl that we haven't seen yet. Can I prove this? No. But it is still very much relevant, especially when Sakurai can (not will) but can consider this.

As for the blundering idiot comment, you're the one posting in the wrong forum.

 

[Skler]

@ Skler: looks like SOMEONE thought my moveset was interesting, seeing as they copied all of midna's stuff from it, aside from Upsmash and Fair.

Differences include but are not limited to, all ariels (nairs are close, but what else can Midna do for a nair), all tilts (except Utilt, but I play Link and love that thing to death, Midna needs it and it fits her), all throws except B throw (seeing as it is done in TP, Midna should do it in brawl), jab, smashes and all B attacks.

The similarities are basically the B throw, Utilt and maybe the super (if you put what I think you put since you claim I copied the entire moveset).

 

[Skler]

Im not trying to argue. . . just asking for a reason. Is that so bad? I ask why you all think she should be alone and I get BS like "She would be faster alone/ With Wolf Link she would be DK sized (wtf?!?!)/ She doesn't need Wolf Link/ she was better with out Wolf Link in TP" and with you I get twisted takes on the story line of TP ( as in "She doesn't need Wolf Link. She can do everything he can and didn't need his help at all") . . . which is something I can look at and see proof or lies in.

You are always trying to argue.

From dictionary.com...

Argue
verb (used without object)
1. to present reasons for or against a thing
2. to contend in oral disagreement; dispute
3. to state the reasons for or against