The Original Midna for Brawl thread. (Debate the Wolf here!)

[Yitik]

Alright well, since it all seems to have stopped, I think I'll go ahead and post something that isn't complaining here. :]

So, I have thought, for about three minutes, for a B moveset for Midna. Everyone else's A movesets are good for me. I just think the B ones are the ones that could use a tweak or two. So I thought, why not?
Let's see what happens with this attempt.

Standard B - It's basically the little Twilight ball thing that she shoots at the chain to Wolf Link in the beginning of the game. It must be charged to about half the size of Mewtwo's Shadow Ball in order to be shot and you can store it. However, it goes relatively faster than Shadow Ball but it doesn't curve. It goes straight across the field and it can go across about three fourths of a Final Destination. Does moderate damage with moderate knockback.

Yeah, I think I'd actually want that instead of my Forward B. Maybe we'll splice ours .

Side B - To make up for Midna's sort-of lacking B move, I've chosen the Yitik's B move ( I hope you don't mind that I borrowed ^_^). The only difference being mine is Side B and his is standard B.
Does low damage with high knockback.

No problem. I always loved Sheik's needles, but hated having to charge them. I figured we needed another nigh-invisible attack in the game, and Midna's strange powers would be perfect for that .

Up B - This is almost a given. Midna bursts into the little twilight squares and you pick a direction that you would want her to go. This is similar to Zelda's in the sense that you choose a direction to go however, with Midna's you can see which way the twilight is going. The twilight can do damage if someone comes in contact with it. However, when Midna is starting to reform, there is a bit of lag (About the same amount as after you've done Farore's Wind). This move covers as much space as Farore's Wind, seeing as Midna probably won't have very good jumps. Does about 4 damage if you come in contact with it and the twilight goes relatively fast.

Hmm...bubbles or Twilight squares. Can't decide. This looks good, and it'd be faster which is something Midna needs, but the bubbles might be fun to control actively with the stick (which would make it that much more different than the other pure-recovery moves out there). For her jumps, I was judging by her hopping around on the Mirror of Twilight. She has to muster a lot of energy for something that can float to get up there, but she seems to have no problem getting where she wants once she's actually in the air. So her initial jump would be short, but her second midair jump would probably be considerably more powerful. Maybe a bit like Ness.

Down B - This one is very similar to Yitik's again. Midna makes the little wolf barrier thing. This can extend as far as one and a half Midnas on each side. It zaps whoever comes in range of it with the little orange sparks, slowing them down. Once the button is released Midna attacks with the big hair hand thingy. It attacks both sides, swinging the hair from one side to the other. Does High damage with low knockback.

I still think I like the idea of Midna tearing through each enemy in turn, like she and Link did in TP. It'd have the same effect, but I think it'd just look cooler with her zeroing in on each enemy.

Well, don't be afraid to tell me what you think. :]

Ten chars!

 

[Black/Light]

Just wanted to bump. Someone on a other thread might want to debate Midna and I feel like killing time.

 

[Yitik]

Yeah, it suddenly just kind of...died. Very sad. I noticed a similar thing on other sites...maybe all the Midna fans went on vacation?

 

[HipsterKid]

Well, I need some killing time as well.
I am curious as to something.

Black/Light, what would you do if I were to tell you that I wanted Midna with Wolf link in Brawl but never Midna by herself because she isn't important enough to be by herself. I really want to see you're pro-Midna arguments. :]

Yeah, it suddenly just kind of...died. Very sad. I noticed a similar thing on other sites...maybe all the Midna fans went on vacation?

Or maybe all the Midna Haters just died off, leaving the Midna goers at total ease for Christmas. :]]]

 

[Black/Light]

Well, I need some killing time as well.
I am curious as to something.

Black/Light, what would you do if I were to tell you that I wanted Midna with Wolf link in Brawl but never Midna by herself because she isn't important enough to be by herself. I really want to see you're pro-Midna arguments. :]



Or maybe all the Midna Haters just died off, leaving the Midna goers at total ease for Christmas. :]]]

Well, I could toss out some general points but I would like to know what Im countering before I counter (100% defence aint my forta, I perfer to put in some offence )

But just some general points. . .
1. Midna is can very well fight on her own.
2. Midna would simply in up a extention of Wolf link in the eyes of players. mainly cause you would be running and jumping with him well they share the move-set. . .but the running and jumping would push it into Wolf Link's favor.
3. Midna being solo helps her image. The more indepindant she is the more her character would shine in her moves.
4. Do we need more Links? If reg Link aint transforming into Wolf Link than I just don't see any wolf link at all.
5. Midna fans love Midna for being Midna. . . not a add on to a Wolf looking Link. Thats like teaming Sonic and Tails together cause they use to be like that in the games. . . might sound unique but Sonic fans sure as Hell wouldn't want that.

Could go on but Im hungy

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Hate to create a 200 page debate, but I can't see Midna getting in.

I mean, if you look at all the characters, they're either:

1. Mascots (ie, Mario)
2. Current main characters (ie, Ike)
3. Retro stars (ie, Ice Climbers)
4. Recurring characters (ie, Luigi)
5. Third party stars (ie, Snake)
6. Original main characters (ie, Marth)

Midna certainly isn't a mascot, a current main character, a retro star, a recurring character, a third party, or the series' original main character. Honestly, as far as we've seen, everyone has fit that mold, Sheik being the exception, but not breaking the rule (she's definitely a different kind of character from everyone else, being treated more as an ability of Zelda).

 

[Black/Light]

Hate to create a 200 page debate, but I can't see Midna getting in.

I mean, if you look at all the characters, they're either:

1. Mascots (ie, Mario)
2. Current main characters (ie, Ike)
3. Retro stars (ie, Ice Climbers)
4. Recurring characters (ie, Luigi)
5. Third party stars (ie, Snake)
6. Original main characters (ie, Marth)

Midna certainly isn't a mascot, a current main character, a retro star, a recurring character, a third party, or the series' original main character. Honestly, as far as we've seen, everyone has fit that mold, Sheik being the exception, but not breaking the rule (she's definitely a different kind of character from everyone else, being treated more as an ability of Zelda).

Alright, you made it here. (and to think, I was going to provok you on the YLing thread till you came)

looks at list*

Ok, Midna IS a main character in TP. It's not like she was that Afro dude that sells you oil or one of those guys that helped Link at the Ganon level . . .the whole story revoled around her.

And Sheik IS a character. She has only been in OoT much like Midna was only in TP. Roy was also only in one game and was a main character in said game. Oh, and Lucas was also only in one game (Much like Ness). And maybe I will post my roles formula. . .it's alot like your's but it shows the roles of characters differently.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

A main character. Not THE main character.

Sheik is a move. She was put in as a feature for Zelda. If you're comparing Midna to Sheik, then she must get in as a transformation, which makes absolutely no sense. Sheik is not on the same level as any other character, solely because she's treated as lesser. She has no spot on the character select screen, and can only be selected by holding A while it's loading.

Anyone who honestly thinks Sheik is on the same level as anyone else is fooling themselves. I mean, really, saying that Midna has a decent chance because Sheik, the least "charactery" character in the roster is in a similar boat isn't saying much.

And really, do you honestly think Midna will warrant being in, say, SSB4? I mean, looking at Fawful, he eventually dropped out of grace when M&L game became older and older. It happens - Roy got in for advertisement purposes, for being the next FE star, and for them having to find a good Marth clone. Sheik got in because Sakurai was trying to find a good twist to Zelda's moveset. Why would Midna get in? She's a step below Link in importance in the one and only game she's ever been in. There's more important characters that could be included - Wind Waker Link, Vaati, and Tingle. Tingle is the most recurring and the only Zelda character to get a spin-off, WW Link is the most common design of Link ever and the current Link, and Vaati is the most recurring boss in Zelda history sans Ganon.

 

[Black/Light]

*****! My post didn't get posted. . . *

A main character. Not THE main character.

*Where on earth are the Geno fan boys when you need them?"

Ganon aint THE main character either. I guess you mean't "recurring main characters" cause theres loads of recurring characters who aint mean characters and main characters who aint recurring.

And some people could argue that Link took 2nd set to Midna in TP (which is one reason why some LoZ fans seem to disslike the story). As I said before, the whole story revoled around her.

But regardless of if you agree with said people or not, she was very much a important and main character in Tp.

And again, Sheik IS a character. And she wasn't even as important as Midna at that. . .

Sheik is a move. She was put in as a feature for Zelda. If you're comparing Midna to Sheik, then she must get in as a transformation, which makes absolutely no sense. Sheik is not on the same level as any other character, solely because she's treated as lesser. She has no spot on the character select screen, and can only be selected by holding A while it's loading.

Anyone who honestly thinks Sheik is on the same level as anyone else is fooling themselves. I mean, really, saying that Midna has a decent chance because Sheik, the least "charactery" character in the roster is in a similar boat isn't saying much.

Well, it seems like Sakurai doesn't go by your rules. He shown Sheik off as a character. . .not just a B down. Really, is this your made up rule? That " Sheik doesn't count" cause she is a transformation? I would think that if a needless transformation from OoT got a whole move-set (save down B) that a main character at Midna's level wouldn't be looked over for simply being in one game.

And really, do you honestly think Midna will warrant being in, say, SSB4? I mean, looking at Fawful, he eventually dropped out of grace when M&L game became older and older.

If she doesn't come back into the newer LoZ games than I wouldn't expect her to be in SSB4 if theres a 4th game with Sakurai. but this aint SSB4, it's brawl. . . Sakurai clearly knew Ness wasn't the main character of his whole series and that he would be replaced somewhere down the line but did that stop him getting into melee? Is "warranting a appearance in a future smash game" anything to look at?

It happens - Roy got in for advertisement purposes, for being the next FE star, and for them having to find a good Marth clone.

Good for Roy. . . he is still not the main character of the whole series.

Sheik got in because Sakurai was trying to find a good twist to Zelda's moveset.

She was also tied at 2nd most wanted LoZ character with Ylink and Zelda. Sakurai must have seen this as a chance to make 2 characters in one. (which we can see was expanded on with Zero and PT)

Why would Midna get in? She's a step below Link in importance in the one and only game she's ever been in.

Thats debatable. From what I can tell they where very much = in importance.
But why would she get in? Cause she is the star of the game Brawl is greatly influancing LoZ characters from? She is the only true "MAIN character" of the series out-side the 3 TF holders. She is the closest thing to a side kick that Link has? Could go on but Im still taken back by your claims that Sheik doesn't count. . .

There's more important characters that could be included - Wind Waker Link, Vaati, and Tingle.

Please. WW Link would replace Y Link so that's not actually a "new character" as much as it's a update on a old character. Vaati is just a recurring villian from 3 games and Tingle isn't "important" to the series. . . useless unless you want a map.

Tingle is the most recurring and the only Zelda character to get a spin-off, WW Link is the most common design of Link ever and the current Link, and Vaati is the most recurring boss in Zelda history sans Ganon.

Tingle probly aint going to be in. . .or atlest semi-deconfirmed. And if he has a spin off than he would rep that spin off.
WW Link = updated YLink and Vaati is just a recurring villian. . .not massively popular and not a "first" to the series like Midna. Wouldn't even see them as revils at this point seeing as they have 2 completely different roles in the series and COULD both be PCs.

And heres my Roles Formula.

*****! My post didn't get posted. . . *

A main character. Not THE main character.

*Where on earth are the Geno fan boys when you need them?"

Ganon aint THE main character either. I guess you mean't "recurring main characters" cause theres loads of recurring characters who aint mean characters and main characters who aint recurring.

And some people could argue that Link took 2nd set to Midna in TP (which is one reason why some LoZ fans seem to disslike the story). As I said before, the whole story revoled around her.

But regardless of if you agree with said people or not, she was very much a important and main character in Tp.

And again, Sheik IS a character. And she wasn't even as important as Midna at that. . .

Sheik is a move. She was put in as a feature for Zelda. If you're comparing Midna to Sheik, then she must get in as a transformation, which makes absolutely no sense. Sheik is not on the same level as any other character, solely because she's treated as lesser. She has no spot on the character select screen, and can only be selected by holding A while it's loading.

Anyone who honestly thinks Sheik is on the same level as anyone else is fooling themselves. I mean, really, saying that Midna has a decent chance because Sheik, the least "charactery" character in the roster is in a similar boat isn't saying much.

Well, it seems like Sakurai doesn't go by your rules. He shown Sheik off as a character. . .not just a B down. Really, is this your made up rule? That " Sheik doesn't count" cause she is a transformation? I would think that if a needless transformation from OoT got a whole move-set (save down B) that a main character at Midna's level wouldn't be looked over for simply being in one game.

And really, do you honestly think Midna will warrant being in, say, SSB4? I mean, looking at Fawful, he eventually dropped out of grace when M&L game became older and older.

If she doesn't come back into the newer LoZ games than I wouldn't expect her to be in SSB4 if theres a 4th game with Sakurai. but this aint SSB4, it's brawl. . . Sakurai clearly knew Ness wasn't the main character of his whole series and that he would be replaced somewhere down the line but did that stop him getting into melee? Is "warranting a appearance in a future smash game" anything to look at?

It happens - Roy got in for advertisement purposes, for being the next FE star, and for them having to find a good Marth clone.

Good for Roy. . . he is still not the main character of the whole series.

Sheik got in because Sakurai was trying to find a good twist to Zelda's moveset.

She was also tied at 2nd most wanted LoZ character with Ylink and Zelda. Sakurai must have seen this as a chance to make 2 characters in one. (which we can see was expanded on with Zero and PT)

Why would Midna get in? She's a step below Link in importance in the one and only game she's ever been in.

Thats debatable. From what I can tell they where very much = in importance.
But why would she get in? Cause she is the star of the game Brawl is greatly influancing LoZ characters from? She is the only true "MAIN character" of the series out-side the 3 TF holders. She is the closest thing to a side kick that Link has? Could go on but Im still taken back by your claims that Sheik doesn't count. . .

There's more important characters that could be included - Wind Waker Link, Vaati, and Tingle.

Please. WW Link would replace Y Link so that's not actually a "new character" as much as it's a update on a old character. Vaati is just a recurring villian from 3 games and Tingle isn't "important" to the series. . . useless unless you want a map.

Tingle is the most recurring and the only Zelda character to get a spin-off, WW Link is the most common design of Link ever and the current Link, and Vaati is the most recurring boss in Zelda history sans Ganon.

Tingle probly aint going to be in. . .or atlest semi-deconfirmed. And if he has a spin off than he would rep that spin off.
WW Link = updated YLink and Vaati is just a recurring villian. . .not massively popular and not a "first" to the series like Midna.

And heres my Roles Formula.

Main character/ Mascott of the series
Side-kick/ Rival like character/ Look alike or different version of the main character.
Important female figure of the series
Villian of the series

Brake down of the above. . .
(Main character or mascott refers to does being either the main character or Mascott (like pika/ Marth) of a series)
(Side-kick/ Rival like character/ Look alike or different version of the main is alil bit different. Logically not all series have a "side-kick" such as the case with pokemon, LoZ, Kriby or samus. So things like "rival/ different version or the main character" where best for them)
(Important female figure and villian are just that.)

And Jpuffs, in their own respective game, are always 3/4s female. . . not to mintion that she has ribbons for her colors all smash games. Half of all Pika's are male, Mewtwo has not gender and the starters are male 87% of the time. Jpuff is clearly the female of them.


Now, Im going to re-list the formula in it's fullness just because I can't re-find the old one.

SSB64
Mario series_________
Mario-Main character
Luigi-Side kick

Pokemon series_______
Pikachu- Main character/Mascott of the series
Jpuff- Important female figure of the series

SSBM
Mario series________
Mario-Main character
Luigi-Side kick
Peach-Important female figure of the series
Bowser-Villian of the series
Doc- Different version or look-a-like of the main character

Pokemon series_______
Pikachu- Main character/Mascott of the series
Jpuff- Important female figure of the series
Pichu- Different version or look-a-like of the main character
Mewtwo- Villian of the series

LoZ series_______
Link- Main character
Y.Link- Different version or look-a-like of the main character
Zelda/ Sheik- Important female figure of the series
Ganon- Villian of the series.

SF series______
Fox- Main character of the series
Falco- Side kick

FE______
Marth- Main character or Mascot of the series
Roy- Different version or look-a-like to the main character

SSBB confirmed characters

Mario series________
Mario-Main character
Luigi-Side kick
Peach-Important female figure of the series
Bowser-Villian of the series

Pokemon series_______
Pikachu- Main character/Mascott of the series
PT- Main/side kick (he is actually the main character but pika has been in smash as the main/ mascott sense 64. Pika IS the mascott of the series so that seperates them. Notice that PT is main of the 3 RB starters. . . 3 of the most iconic pokemon and are the first you get in the series)
Jpuff- Important female figure of the series

LoZ______
Link- Main character of the series
Zelda- important female figure of the series

Kriby______
Kriby- main character of the series
MK- Rival
DDD- Villian of the series

Metriod_____
Samus- Main character of the series
Zero- Different version of the main character

Dk_____
DK- Main character of the series
Diddy- Side kick


NOW, time to look at who people think are the most likely new comers. . .
Bowser Jr- Villian
Toad- Side kick
Geno- Side kick
Midna- Side kick OR important female figure
Ridly(sp)- Villian
Krystal- Important female figure of the series
Wolf- Rival/ Villian
Cluas (sp)- Rival/ villain
WW Link- Different version of the main character
Micaiah- important female figure

Hell, often times people naturely support characters that naturely fall under these roles because they are the most important roles of a game. I can tell you right now that I don't think some of them will be in but I can fully see/ why any of them could make it.

 

[chaos_Leader]

^good points^

and it plays into my showcase theory for SSBB representation [see: http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3515826&postcount=1253]
In a nutshell: Its not all about who's been on the stage the longest, its about who has entered the spotlight at the time.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Let me ask... why in the world is it based on who is in the spotlight at the time?

Lucas and Ike are not in the same boat - they are the stars of the game and the most important characters in their respective games. Midna is not.

And why are you making that labelling to support Midna? Being a character who fits that role doesn't make her at all more likely.

Bowser Jr- Villian - Roughly the main villain of all three games he's starred in.
Toad- Side kick - Has been in the series since SMB and playable in SMB2 (and isn't even likely playable).
Geno- Side kick - Doesn't make him more likely.
Midna- Side kick OR important female figure - Doesn't make her more likely.
Ridly(sp)- Villian - Most recurring villain in the series.
Krystal- Important female figure of the series - Commonly recurring and part of the main Star Fox team.
Wolf- Rival/ Villian - A paimary villain in the Star Fox series.
Cluas (sp)- Rival/ villain - The main villain of his respective game.
WW Link- Different version of the main character - Warrants representation.
Micaiah- important female figure - Doesn't mean she'll be in.

See, your labels don't change anything - roles in one or more games doesn't matter to their role in this game, the only character in the entire game that is even in a similar boat to Midna is a transformation, and an aspect of Zelda. Just because Sakurai doesn't magnify Sheik's unimportance doesn't make her equal in importance. The fact remains that she was added to improve Zelda as a character. Sheik is added for the same reason why Mario got the Fireball - this is what people identify Zelda with.

 

[HipsterKid]

What I don't think you're getting is that about 95 percent of Twilight Princess revolves around Midna.
It's even evident in the name.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Twilight Princess = Midna

They could've even called it The Legend of Zelda: Midna and it would've made sense. But Twilight Princess sounds cooler.

Contains Spoilers

Spoiler

At first, Midna recruits Link to help her do what she needs. She needs him to help her with Zant. She needs him to help her find the Fused Shadows. From this point on, what Link had originally set out to do becomes as important as Sheik. You see the children every so often and once in a while, you get something from it. After getting the Fused Shadows, Zant hurts Midna and you have to save Midna! Zelda then sacrifices herself for Midna! She must be pretty darn important to get sacrificed for! From there, Link gets the Twilight Mirror for Midna. They go to Midna's castle to get Midna's spot at the throne back. Minda kills Zant. Then they go to find Ganon. Midna almost sacrifices herself for Zelda. The beginning part of the fight is all about Ganon. Then when Link finds out Midna is "dead" he almost dies for her. Link and Zelda then finish Ganon off and find out Midna is still alive. Then the game ends with Midna leaving back into the twilight, possibly never to see Link again.

As you can see, you can't write out a Twilight Princess story without using the word Midna. That can't be said for someone like, Sheik for example. Midna is a main character. Her importance is equal to if not greater than that of Link. Of course, you have your own right to go against Midna, but I would have to say that chances are in her favor.

 

[PDawgy]

Pedro's Midna and Wolf Link's moveset (I WAS FORCED TO POST IT HERE J/K :D)

I drew a moveset for Midna and Wolf Link, yay for me!!!! (sorry if the drawings are kind of sucky, I didn't put that much effort )

Standard B: Twilight Blast

This one kind of works like Mewtwo's Standard B. Depending how long Midna charges the energy, the more projectiles she will throw.

Neither is your face, so shut up!!!!

Down B: Dark Energy Attack

If you've played Twilight Princess then you know what this is, Midna raises her hand and summons a growing circle of crackling Twilight energy which will surround any enemies within range. Once you let go of B, Link will attack any one touching the force field on the ground. It may be strong on the knock back but once wolf link launches at them there is no coming back. If a character is standing on an edge you will fall of the edge.

Up B: Warp

In this move, Midna makes a portal above wolf link and sucks him in (ha, suck is a funny word). Then another portal appears above and Wolf Link falls out of it. Unlike in Twilight Princess were the animation is slow, in Brawl the animation would be more faster. It works kind of like Zelda's up B... except cooler.

Side B: Wolf Lunge (Wolf ****)

This move is a mixture of Bowser's and Diddy's side B. Wolf Link would jump onto enemies, and then grab and bite them by pressing B repetitively. On smaller foes wolf Link would pin them down on the ground and start biting them. In Twilight Princess you can do this attack on the Shadow Beasts so this move is canon .

Final Smash: Fused Shadows

For there Final Smash Midna gets all the Fused Shadows and transforms into that thingy, which I suck at drawing!!!

Taunt: Howl

He howls....

Well there you have it folks I hope you like 'em moves, even though there is a low chance for Midna and Wolf Link to appear.

Taunt: Pee

MAIN reason why they need to be in just imagine what you can do to your opponent after you killed them in stamina

Taunt: Laugh

Midna laughs (yeah that one laugh from the game) as wolf link looks at her and wags his tail
​

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Just because she's necessary to Twilight Princess does NOT mean that she's the most important. The Minish Cap is ABOUT The Minish Cap, but the main character is Link. Midna is, by fact, less important than Link. Vaati is roughly as important as Midna is in TP in the three FS styled games.

Midna's lack of importance to the Zelda series hurts her chances. Like I said, if she doesn't appear in anymore Zelda games, then she won't warrant inclusion no more than Ezlo does.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

In TP, Midna is as important as Link.

 

[Black/Light]

Let me ask... why in the world is it based on who is in the spotlight at the time?

. . . Ummm, wat?

Lucas and Ike are not in the same boat - they are the stars of the game and the most important characters in their respective games. Midna is not.

Well, going by your logic Claus wouldn't be able to be in because he aint THE main character of the one Mother game he was in. NO FE character could get in other than "THE main character" of a game meaning Mica and any non-sword swinging main male character is not happening. Also Sheik would have never come cause she was a minor character in the one game she is from.

And again, it's clear that Midna IS THE STAR of the LoZ: TP. Like Hip pointed out, it's even in the name. Without Midna theres no TP. Hell, not only is she in the subtitle of the game, she is apart of the logo. http://www.randomhouse.com/images/dyn/cover/?source=9780761555711&width=309
http://www.nintendolife.com/images/packshot/games/wii/legend_of_zelda_twilight_princess

Story wise, no dissrespect to Link but he could have been called Midna's B*** for a large part of the story. Theres no dubt about it, Midna is the most important character of the story, the first character to over shadow Link soo much in the game's story. I agree 100% with Hipserkid, Midna is just as, if not more important than Link to the game well story wise she is the most important character of the game.

And Im shocked by your limated view of who is important enuff to get in. Sheik is "important enuff to get in" for no other reason than being Zelda in drag in one game?

And why are you making that labelling to support Midna? Being a character who fits that role doesn't make her at all more likely.

Looking at other series up to this point I would have to dissagree. Having one of these labels sure as heck makes a character more likely than [insert random character from random game]. Actually being IMPORTANT and A KEY/ MAIN CHARACTER in the latest console game thats greatly influcancing LoZ characters/ stages/ songs/ elements in brawl makes a character stand out more than, say, a recurring character who only sells you maps or a villian who shows up in the two 4 swords and one MC game. Heck, Skull Kid has been a villian in 3 console games. . .should he be in because of that?

Bowser Jr- Villian - Roughly the main villain of all three games he's starred in.
Toad- Side kick - Has been in the series since SMB and playable in SMB2 (and isn't even likely playable).
Geno- Side kick - Doesn't make him more likely.
Midna- Side kick OR important female figure - Doesn't make her more likely.
Ridly(sp)- Villian - Most recurring villain in the series.
Krystal- Important female figure of the series - Commonly recurring and part of the main Star Fox team.
Wolf- Rival/ Villian - A paimary villain in the Star Fox series.
Cluas (sp)- Rival/ villain - The main villain of his respective game.
WW Link- Different version of the main character - Warrants representation.
Micaiah- important female figure - Doesn't mean she'll be in.

. . . I don't think you got the meaning of that. That was to in-order to show the roles of characters people commonly want for brawl. Purely to show that even the most wanted characters fall under these roles.

See, your labels don't change anything - roles in one or more games doesn't matter to their role in this game, the only character in the entire game that is even in a similar boat to Midna is a transformation, and an aspect of Zelda. Just because Sakurai doesn't magnify Sheik's unimportance doesn't make her equal in importance. The fact remains that she was added to improve Zelda as a character. Sheik is added for the same reason why Mario got the Fireball - this is what people identify Zelda with.

Im sorry but you are very much wrong. How is Midna "in a simular boat" to Sheik? Because she was only in one game? How is Claus any different than Midna in that respect? He wasn't THE main character of Mother 3 and was only in one game.

And even than Midna WAS the star of TP. What you don't seem to take into account is how much her role dwarfs that of most any other "New comer" that could come from the LoZ series. Hell, it seems that your main point is the amount of games she has appeared and we have tons of character who have only been in one game. And you keep trying to make Sheik less than a character when in fact she IS a character and not just some fire ball level move. Going by your logic there should be no more Mother 3 characters or any FE character who wasn't "THE main character" of one game of the series. Point is, we HAVE had character who where only from one game, we HAVE had characters who are not the main character of the whole series and no, a character doesn't have to be recurring to be in brawl nor does one have to be 100% likely to be in SSB4 to be in brawl.

 

[HipsterKid]

Well, going by your logic Claus wouldn't be able to be in because he aint THE main character of the one Mother game he was in. NO FE character could get in other than "THE main character" of a game meaning Mica and any non-sword swinging main male character is not happening. Also Sheik would have never come cause she was a minor character in the one game she is from.

Heh Claus was the first person I thought would be in a similar boat as Midna. Not quite the same because of their different roles. But I see where you going with that.

Story wise, no dissrespect to Link but he could have been called Midna's B*** for a large part of the story.

Hahaha. That's very true.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Your whole argument is based on the notion that Claus warrants inclusion.

If you asked the average, mainstream gamer who was the star of TP, they'd say Link. Not Midna. It being ABOUT Midna is no different from Minish Cap being ABOUT the Minish Cap.

 

[Yitik]

Just because she's necessary to Twilight Princess does NOT mean that she's the most important. The Minish Cap is ABOUT The Minish Cap, but the main character is Link. Midna is, by fact, less important than Link. Vaati is roughly as important as Midna is in TP in the three FS styled games.

Gonna show support, or just flap your gums? We've been arguing about this for a while, and I think it basically cumulated that in Twilight Princess, Link's story dissolves after about the first eight hours and Midna's problems involving the Twilight and Zant become the center of attention when Hyrule's problems are all (apparently, until the very end) solved.

Midna's lack of importance to the Zelda series hurts her chances. Like I said, if she doesn't appear in anymore Zelda games, then she won't warrant inclusion no more than Ezlo does.

Are you under the impression that Nintendo is fully capable of rattling out complete Zelda console games by the year? Of course Midna hasn't come back. She hasn't had time. But I'm pretty sure she will, hopefully starting with Brawl.

Really, I think the biggest thing going for Midna when you look at the characters in Brawl and Melee is her unique character and abilities. Look at her and compare her to the rest of the characters in LoZ, or even the rest of the characters in any game. Not just her personality which flowed so well from one conceptual extreme to another, but even just the physical aspects. Look through the list of characters in Smash Bros., and you know that there's no way she could be made a clone of anyone. Couple that with the simple fact that in TP she was definitely a fighter, and that she is a popular character (whether or not you believe that helps, it does affect the decision to implement a character either by large amounts of popularity or by incredibly small renown; again, you can see this in every character), to me she just seems like a no-brainer.

Your whole argument is based on the notion that Claus warrants inclusion.

If you asked the average, mainstream gamer who was the star of TP, they'd say Link. Not Midna. It being ABOUT Midna is no different from Minish Cap being ABOUT the Minish Cap.

Nintendo isn't looking to drag in mainstream gamers. Mainstream gamers are going to buy Brawl no matter who's in it; it's a popular series. For a better idea, ask the people who, as their first Zelda game, played Twilight Princess. I just asked one now who was sitting beside me reading as I typed, and they agree with me (said that you played as Link, but you were basically just working for Midna so she basically was the main character because she was driving the story). These are the people Ninty needs to appeal to.

And stop talking about Ezlo. He was, in my opinion, slightly annoying. Although he was unique in his physical attributes, his personality was a little unbelievable (MC still wasn't as reliant on story as TP, so that's understandable) and I think you'll agree that he probably isn't the best choice for a fighter. He also doesn't have near the fanbase of Midna.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Okay, fine. Ask anyone who the main character of TP is, they'll say Link.

You know, since the main character of most games is, you know, the person the player plays as?

Nintendo treats Link as the primary character as well. Just because you, unlike Nintendo, consider Midna as THE main character does not mean that she is.

And, Ezlo is simply in the same position as Midna. The games they are in both revolve around them - by the first dungeon, the game is about Ezlo and the Minish Cap, Link's just there for the ride. But no one calls Ezlo the main character, because he's not.

 

[Mad555]

Your whole argument is based on the notion that Claus warrants inclusion.

If you asked the average, mainstream gamer who was the star of TP, they'd say Link. Not Midna. It being ABOUT Midna is no different from Minish Cap being ABOUT the Minish Cap.

OK, then how important is Midna to Twilight Princess? You act like she wasnt even part of the whole game when the game was kind of based around her. The story line dosent really even start until Midna comes in.

 

[Black/Light]

Your whole argument is based on the notion that Claus warrants inclusion.

If you asked the average, mainstream gamer who was the star of TP, they'd say Link. Not Midna. It being ABOUT Midna is no different from Minish Cap being ABOUT the Minish Cap.

. . .No, Im just using Claus as a example of a character thats a populare choice who is in the same boat as Midna by your logic. . . you didn't seem to be against him.

I could very well use Micaiah, Geno, Kumatora, Mellow or any other character I see decent support for who has a important role in one game but aint the main character of the series or game.

And if you asked the arvg TP player what LoZ TP was about you hear "Midna". I, more often than not, hear this; that Midna was the star of TP/ that Midna was the focus of the game/ that Midna over-shadowed Link. These are things TP players are saying. . . not random "mainstream" gamers but people who actually played the game.
And I agree with Yitik on Elzo.

 

[chaos_Leader]

I not Midna, than who? and Why?

remember, Midna has the following to support her inclusion:
-Widely recognized character from the latest LoZ console game among casuals gamers and more serious gamers alike. Whether you acknowledge this fact or not is irrelevant since it is true.
-Can technically be considered partly playable in LoZ TP
-Several unique and implementable character attributes with/without Wolf-Link

Think about it. After the obvious addition of Ganondorf, who would the developers add to represent the latest in the LoZ series? As bad as it sounds, the developers are in it for the money. One long-term way to go about it is to maintain an strong reputation of excellence. While the developers do have an obligation to fanservice to maintain such a reputation, they also intend to draw in a greater crowd than just the serious fans. one of the best ways to go about that process is to include widely recognized characters (Midna). It doesn't matter what your personal feelings are toward such a character are if a vast majority of the consumer-base disagrees with you.

as for a pro-Wolf-Link+Midna combo argument:
In LoZ TP, how often does Midna actually fight off an opponent on her own, under her own power? You could say that she killed Zant on her own, but only after he was weakened by Link in the battle beforehand. While she has plenty of power to be a force to contend with, she does not appear to have the endurance required for a prolonged conflict, which is part of the reason she joined up with Link in the first place, so someone else could do the dirty work. If she could get the fused shadows on her own, she would.
Link in wolf form had the opposite problem, plenty of endurance, but with not enough power or ability to be able to accomplish anything beyond the physical capabilities of a normal animal. Midna and Link in wolf form are in many ways greater than the sum of their parts. Without Midna, Link would be up a creek without a paddle in several situations. Without Link, Midna would be in the water holding a paddle without a boat.

(hey, whadya know. post #400. *has little celebration*)

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

You act like it changes anything.

Nintendo certainly does not consider Midna as the main character of Twilight Princess, so why is she the main character of Twilight Princess? Just because I don't say "AONUMA U RONG" doesn't mean I'm saying "omg Midna am unimportant".

Why is she different from Vaati? Minish Cap is about Vaati.

And that logic is terrible. Having a good fanbase doesn't mean that they are in. With the exception of Geno and Mallow (the latter's fanbase not even being that big), they're recent characters in popular games.

And you agree with someone about a point that favors yours? Surprising.

Ezlo is roughly in a 0% different case. Why is it different? He has a human-shape appearance.

And if you want, I can say that Minish Cap is about Ezlo, Vaati, and the Minish Cap, not Link. Even if you count Ezlo out, why is Vaati out? Recurrence, prominence, and the simple fact that his role is a staple in every Zelda game (villain).

People would not identify Midna as the main character because she is not the main character. Link is. People don't say "hey, that girl that's floatin' around the person I'm playing as is the main character!" Link has been the main character of every single game in the series, and why didn't anyone ever claim that the game wasn't about Link in Minish Cap?

And, like I've said a million times, Vaati, Tingle, and Wind Waker Link are all good choices.

 

[vesperview]

And that logic is terrible. Having a good fanbase doesn't mean that they are in. With the exception of Geno and Mallow (the latter's fanbase not even being that big), they're recent characters in popular games.

Or you apply your logic to everybody or you just don't apply it at all, why are Geno and Mallow exceptions? Cause of the polls? Geno's situation is far from being different than Midna's, they share almost the same role in their games, just because he has the polls in his favor doesn't mean he is in any way still relevant to the Mario series, his game is even older than TP and his second appearance was a minor cameo and if Sheik made it in Melee why can't Midna be in Brawl? Most Zelda characters are not recurring either way.

 

[HipsterKid]

Nintendo certainly does not consider Midna as the main character of Twilight Princess, so why is she the main character of Twilight Princess? Just because I don't say "AONUMA U RONG" doesn't mean I'm saying "omg Midna am unimportant".

I think a source is definitely needed for that. I don't ever recall Nintendo saying that Midna wasn't the main character. Plus the second sentence of that paragraph didn't really make much sense. @_@.

And that logic is terrible. Having a good fanbase doesn't mean that they are in. With the exception of Geno and Mallow (the latter's fanbase not even being that big), they're recent characters in popular games.

Yes, but having a good fanbase certainly influences a character's chances of getting in Brawl, for example Sonic?

People would not identify Midna as the main character because she is not the main character. Link is. People don't say "hey, that girl that's floatin' around the person I'm playing as is the main character!" Link has been the main character of every single game in the series, and why didn't anyone ever claim that the game wasn't about Link in Minish Cap?

That might just be your perspective. I think this needs to be a kind of tally thing. I'd say 95 percent of this thread is saying Midna. It might just be because it is the Midna thread but I think many others would say the same. I think that you could call Link the playable character. That certainly doesn't make him the main character though. Especially when the story builds around another important character. :]]]

And, like I've said a million times, Vaati, Tingle, and Wind Waker Link are all good choices.

Vaati - Now I can see why you'd want him. Reoccurring villain in a part of the LoZ series. However, we already have one of those practically confirmed on the list of Brawl Characters. The LoZ part of Brawl certainly doesn't need two villains as part of the game.

Tingle - I'd have to admit. Tingle's chances were very good. However, most people took his trophy as a deconfirmation. Now, I'm not saying that it's true, however, I will stand by their beliefs and say that he's got about a 25 percent chance.

Wind Waker Link - Now this is the character that I'd say is the only thing holding Midna back from confirmation. You're right, he is a good choice. His popularity is good, he's unique, and would be a good addition. However, I'd say Midna stands on the same boat as Wind Waker here. And Most people seem to think so too.

 

[blazer787]

do you guy want me back here and posting?

 

[HipsterKid]

do you guy want me back here and posting?

Only if you promise to be nice and post humanely.

 

[blazer787]

Only if you promise to be nice and post humanely.

=no
no=yes:heart:hainsaw:
i'll be oficially back in about 36 hours of this post (aka sunday)

 

[Black/Light]

You act like it changes anything.

. . .Ummm, I was simply showing why I was using them as examples.

Nintendo certainly does not consider Midna as the main character of Twilight Princess, so why is she the main character of Twilight Princess? Just because I don't say "AONUMA U RONG" doesn't mean I'm saying "omg Midna am unimportant".

I agree with everything Hipsterkid said about this. . . .and for the record Idk what you said that for.
Hipsterkidvvv

I think a source is definitely needed for that. I don't ever recall Nintendo saying that Midna wasn't the main character. Plus the second sentence of that paragraph didn't really make much sense. @_@.

Why is she different from Vaati? Minish Cap is about Vaati.

I did some research. Vaati in MC is the Minish who stole the magical cape and searched for "the light". He was simply the villian. . . it wasn't about his character devilopment or anything. He was the villian and played the villian role which is more like Zant in some ways.

And that logic is terrible. Having a good fanbase doesn't mean that they are in. With the exception of Geno and Mallow (the latter's fanbase not even being that big), they're recent characters in popular games.

Vesperview head it right on the head. .

Or you apply your logic to everybody or you just don't apply it at all, why are Geno and Mallow exceptions? Cause of the polls? Geno's situation is far from being different than Midna's, they share almost the same role in their games, just because he has the polls in his favor doesn't mean he is in any way still relevant to the Mario series, his game is even older than TP and his second appearance was a minor cameo and if Sheik made it in Melee why can't Midna be in Brawl? Most Zelda characters are not recurring either way.

And you agree with someone about a point that favors yours? Surprising.

YEA! It is. . . very shocking.

Ezlo is roughly in a 0% different case. Why is it different? He has a human-shape appearance.

How is he the same as Midna? He was turned into a hat and helped you find his lil apprintance who turned on him. . .for the most part he was simply there to let link become minish sized and help him find Vaati. The story didn't revole around him like it did Midna, he only helped Link find the bad guy. Maybe thats cause TP is many times more story driven. . . but they aint the same.

And if you want, I can say that Minish Cap is about Ezlo, Vaati, and the Minish Cap, not Link.

. . .So you CAN'T nail it down to just one of these 3? Than it's not the same as Midna.

Even if you count Ezlo out, why is Vaati out? Recurrence, prominence, and the simple fact that his role is a staple in every Zelda game (villain).

Oh yea, he is the villian of the 4 swords era and made the same amount of appearances as Skull Kid (3. . .Shull kid may have been in 4 games so maybe not). . .was Ganon's b**** in the last one.

Hummm, why not have skull kid in? He was a villian in the realistic console LoZ games and was the main villian in MM. I mean, being a recurring villian in 3 games is soo. . . unique.

Really, I don't think that, in the case of LoZ, being a recurring villian is much of a plus.

People would not identify Midna as the main character because she is not the main character. Link is. People don't say "hey, that girl that's floatin' around the person I'm playing as is the main character!" Link has been the main character of every single game in the series, and why didn't anyone ever claim that the game wasn't about Link in Minish Cap?

Well I know people who dissagree with that. Story wise, it's clear that Midna is the main character. . . guess we should look around at people who played the game and not just random "Im going to pick up the game for 5 mins and not see any of the story" people.

And, like I've said a million times, Vaati, Tingle, and Wind Waker Link are all good choices.

Tingle= Yea, many people think he is deconfirmed as I said before.

Vaati= 3 appearances as a villian in the 4 swords era. Would be coo but theres also Skull Kid who has also been in 3 LoZ games (all console games) as a villian. I would see that as his main comp. . . IF we need more LoZ villians than Ganon.

WW Link= . . . Do you expect Y Link from MM AND WW Link? Cause the way I see it they are the only comp for each other. Either WW Link is Y Link in Celda style or he aint in at all. . . OR he is Y Link in TP style but with WW moves. If he gets in he would only be some kind of new non-clone/ cloneish Y Link. . .he wouldn't be some new character.

Basicly, WW Link would be as much of a "New character" as TP Link. Personally I don't think he will get in simply because this would be the first time 2 characters from the same series was in 2 different art styles but W/E, he is just a upgraded Y Link and not actual "comp" for a new comer spot.
(I also don't think Sheik will come back but that off topic some what)

And is this HighLander? Can there "ONLY BE ONNNNEEEE!!!"? Really, after a updated Y Link I really don't see why both Midna and Vaati OR Shull Kid couldn't be in.

 

[Yitik]

Okay, fine. Ask anyone who the main character of TP is, they'll say Link.

Um, I just did. A random person seeing what I was doing on the internet had beaten Twilight Princess and disagrees with you. If you think the protagonist of a story is always the one from which the viewpoint is taken, you don't read/play/watch enough.

Nintendo treats Link as the primary character as well. Just because you, unlike Nintendo, consider Midna as THE main character does not mean that she is.

I'm getting a little bored with you speaking for Nintendo as though you own the company. Give us some proof of your statement, as I already have given some for mine.

And, Ezlo is simply in the same position as Midna. The games they are in both revolve around them - by the first dungeon, the game is about Ezlo and the Minish Cap, Link's just there for the ride. But no one calls Ezlo the main character, because he's not.

Also because he was an annoying character that has about as many fans as Navi (no offense meant to Ezlo or Navi fans; that's stats for you).

OK, then how important is Midna to Twilight Princess? You act like she wasnt even part of the whole game when the game was kind of based around her. The story line dosent really even start until Midna comes in.

Exactly. Up until Midna comes in, it's all about saving the kids. Afterwards, however, that slowly becomes less important, being solved behind the scenes of another more important quest.

I not Midna, than who? and Why?

remember, Midna has the following to support her inclusion:
-Widely recognized character from the latest LoZ console game among casuals gamers and more serious gamers alike. Whether you acknowledge this fact or not is irrelevant since it is true.
-Can technically be considered partly playable in LoZ TP
-Several unique and implementable character attributes with/without Wolf-Link

Think about it. After the obvious addition of Ganondorf, who would the developers add to represent the latest in the LoZ series? As bad as it sounds, the developers are in it for the money. One long-term way to go about it is to maintain an strong reputation of excellence. While the developers do have an obligation to fanservice to maintain such a reputation, they also intend to draw in a greater crowd than just the serious fans. one of the best ways to go about that process is to include widely recognized characters (Midna). It doesn't matter what your personal feelings are toward such a character are if a vast majority of the consumer-base disagrees with you.

as for a pro-Wolf-Link+Midna combo argument:
In LoZ TP, how often does Midna actually fight off an opponent on her own, under her own power? You could say that she killed Zant on her own, but only after he was weakened by Link in the battle beforehand. While she has plenty of power to be a force to contend with, she does not appear to have the endurance required for a prolonged conflict, which is part of the reason she joined up with Link in the first place, so someone else could do the dirty work. If she could get the fused shadows on her own, she would.
Link in wolf form had the opposite problem, plenty of endurance, but with not enough power or ability to be able to accomplish anything beyond the physical capabilities of a normal animal. Midna and Link in wolf form are in many ways greater than the sum of their parts. Without Midna, Link would be up a creek without a paddle in several situations. Without Link, Midna would be in the water holding a paddle without a boat.

(hey, whadya know. post #400. *has little celebration*)

Nice argument. I still don't like the idea of Wolf Link being in, since he would detract from Midna's stage presence, and I actually think that Midna's lack of endurance would be a good thing: it would balance out her considerable magic arsenal she could equip in a fighting game.

You act like it changes anything.

Nintendo certainly does not consider Midna as the main character of Twilight Princess, so why is she the main character of Twilight Princess? Just because I don't say "AONUMA U RONG" doesn't mean I'm saying "omg Midna am unimportant".

PROOF. EVIDENCE. FEED ME.

And that logic is terrible. Having a good fanbase doesn't mean that they are in. With the exception of Geno and Mallow (the latter's fanbase not even being that big), they're recent characters in popular games.

Um...yeah. That was kind of the point: characters who get in are popular in recent games.

And you agree with someone about a point that favors yours? Surprising.

I didn't do it to shock you. I'll say what I said to Numa: cutting down your opponent rather than their debate does not support your argument, and actually makes you less credible.

Ezlo is roughly in a 0% different case. Why is it different? He has a human-shape appearance.

I'm having trouble understanding you. Are you saying he's good for Brawl because in the end he's a humanoid? Hmm. Does he ever fight? Does he have a very large, or very cult-oriented fanbase? Was there anything special at all about his abilities, aside from allowing you to shrink? If you want to do a direct character comparison, does he slowly begin to become more fond of you, or does it happen suddenly? Does he still retain some of his old personality towards other characters?

And if you want, I can say that Minish Cap is about Ezlo, Vaati, and the Minish Cap, not Link. Even if you count Ezlo out, why is Vaati out? Recurrence, prominence, and the simple fact that his role is a staple in every Zelda game (villain).

I haven't used recurrence as a reason for Midna being in. I actually use the opposite as a reason: she should be in because people are craving to see her again in a game and are afraid she'll never return. Anyhow, I don't know much about Vaati, only that he's a baddie with magical powers akin to many Mario role playing game villains (like Cackletta and Bleck). Maybe I'll let someone else field this one, but I think just the fact that despite hanging around eight LoZ forums in the last half-year I still don't know about him is a good pointer of why he likely won't be in Brawl in the opinions of some. He doesn't have a lot of fans, a lot of discussion going on about him. On the other hand, he's also not underappreciated.

People would not identify Midna as the main character because she is not the main character. Link is. People don't say "hey, that girl that's floatin' around the person I'm playing as is the main character!" Link has been the main character of every single game in the series, and why didn't anyone ever claim that the game wasn't about Link in Minish Cap?

Sigh. **** conservatives. Read the other post I had about this, and also note that just because Link drives the story and has the most screen time in other games does not mean he does in this one. It's a different game. It 'broke traditions'. Midna is the main focus of more cutscenes in TP than any other character (count 'em).

Or you apply your logic to everybody or you just don't apply it at all, why are Geno and Mallow exceptions? Cause of the polls? Geno's situation is far from being different than Midna's, they share almost the same role in their games, just because he has the polls in his favor doesn't mean he is in any way still relevant to the Mario series, his game is even older than TP and his second appearance was a minor cameo and if Sheik made it in Melee why can't Midna be in Brawl? Most Zelda characters are not recurring either way.

You're right about Geno being similar to Midna; they both drive their story although their point of view is not taken. They're both very mysterious and have a lot of fans. The only difference when looking at roles is that Midna is more dynamic, wheras Geno tends to stick with his personality. I actually would like him in, but Midna would ensure my purchase.

 

[HipsterKid]

I agree with everything Hipsterkid said about this. . . .and for the record Idk what you said that for.
Hipsterkidvvv

Nevermind that part then. What he said made it sound like he had read it somewhere. That's where I got the "source needed" from. The other half of his post I didn't even understand so that's where I got the "The second sentence doesn't make sense" from. Ignore it if you must.

PROOF. EVIDENCE. FEED ME.

I guess you got the same response that I did from that one part. Does this help you see what I was trying to say, Black/Light?

I think that everything Black/Light stated was true and does hold it's ground. I have never been a big fan of hand-hold Zelda games. I don't really know how they run so I'll leave that part to you Black/Light.

However, I do realize that Vaati and Skull Kid are reoccurring characters, villains to be more precise. What I have to say to that is, the fact that they're villains kills off their chances. I mean they have Ganon to compete against. There is no way that Vaati and Skull Kid can even compare to Ganon. That is what kills their chances. Two villains cannot coincide with each other. Two main characters, a main character and a sidekick, or even two sidekicks can but definitely not two villains.

 

[SolidSonic]

I recently played Twilight Princess for the first time, and I gotta say 'meh' to Midna.

Midna's yawning and bemused moaning is not something I look for in a smash character.

Being critical to a game's storyline does not seem like a good reason to include a character in Brawl. She was like Link's guide and additional appendage for the most part.

I guess I wouldn't mind her being including, but she does not need to come above the many more deserving characters out there.


Wolf Link + Midna > Just plain Midna. Midna by herself would suck horribly.

 

[Yitik]

I recently played Twilight Princess for the first time, and I gotta say 'meh' to Midna.

Midna's yawning and bemused moaning is not something I look for in a smash character.

Being critical to a game's storyline does not seem like a good reason to include a character in Brawl. She was like Link's guide and additional appendage for the most part.

I guess I wouldn't mind her being including, but she does not need to come above the many more deserving characters out there.


Wolf Link + Midna > Just plain Midna. Midna by herself would suck horribly.

Ah. Wait until you play through the whole thing, if you haven't already. A lot of peoples' minds change later on. As an example, a friend of mine despised Midna until quite a while after finishing TP, when he realized just how important she was to the story, and just how fulfilling she made the game. He couldn't stand Minish Cap or Phantom Hourglass for more than a few minutes because...well, while playing it on my DS, he flicked it off and turned to me and said "Yitik," (cuz that's what they call me) "we need Midna back."

You'll also see that she does have the capabilities to be a Brawl character, and that she becomes much more than just a giant, slave-driving hand riding on Link.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I think a source is definitely needed for that. I don't ever recall Nintendo saying that Midna wasn't the main character. Plus the second sentence of that paragraph didn't really make much sense. @_@.



Yes, but having a good fanbase certainly influences a character's chances of getting in Brawl, for example Sonic?



That might just be your perspective. I think this needs to be a kind of tally thing. I'd say 95 percent of this thread is saying Midna. It might just be because it is the Midna thread but I think many others would say the same. I think that you could call Link the playable character. That certainly doesn't make him the main character though. Especially when the story builds around another important character. :]]]



Vaati - Now I can see why you'd want him. Reoccurring villain in a part of the LoZ series. However, we already have one of those practically confirmed on the list of Brawl Characters. The LoZ part of Brawl certainly doesn't need two villains as part of the game.

Tingle - I'd have to admit. Tingle's chances were very good. However, most people took his trophy as a deconfirmation. Now, I'm not saying that it's true, however, I will stand by their beliefs and say that he's got about a 25 percent chance.

Wind Waker Link - Now this is the character that I'd say is the only thing holding Midna back from confirmation. You're right, he is a good choice. His popularity is good, he's unique, and would be a good addition. However, I'd say Midna stands on the same boat as Wind Waker here. And Most people seem to think so too.

. . .Ummm, I was simply showing why I was using them as examples.


I agree with everything Hipsterkid said about this. . . .and for the record Idk what you said that for.
Hipsterkidvvv


I did some research. Vaati in MC is the Minish who stole the magical cape and searched for "the light". He was simply the villian. . . it wasn't about his character devilopment or anything. He was the villian and played the villian role which is more like Zant in some ways.


Vesperview head it right on the head. .



YEA! It is. . . very shocking.

How is he the same as Midna? He was turned into a hat and helped you find his lil apprintance who turned on him. . .for the most part he was simply there to let link become minish sized and help him find Vaati. The story didn't revole around him like it did Midna, he only helped Link find the bad guy. Maybe thats cause TP is many times more story driven. . . but they aint the same.

. . .So you CAN'T nail it down to just one of these 3? Than it's not the same as Midna.
Oh yea, he is the villian of the 4 swords era and made the same amount of appearances as Skull Kid (3. . .Shull kid may have been in 4 games so maybe not). . .was Ganon's b**** in the last one.

Hummm, why not have skull kid in? He was a villian in the realistic console LoZ games and was the main villian in MM. I mean, being a recurring villian in 3 games is soo. . . unique.

Really, I don't think that, in the case of LoZ, being a recurring villian is much of a plus.

Well I know people who dissagree with that. Story wise, it's clear that Midna is the main character. . . guess we should look around at people who played the game and not just random "Im going to pick up the game for 5 mins and not see any of the story" people.


Tingle= Yea, many people think he is deconfirmed as I said before.

Vaati= 3 appearances as a villian in the 4 swords era. Would be coo but theres also Skull Kid who has also been in 3 LoZ games (all console games) as a villian. I would see that as his main comp. . . IF we need more LoZ villians than Ganon.

WW Link= . . . Do you expect Y Link from MM AND WW Link? Cause the way I see it they are the only comp for each other. Either WW Link is Y Link in Celda style or he aint in at all. . . OR he is Y Link in TP style but with WW moves. If he gets in he would only be some kind of new non-clone/ cloneish Y Link. . .he wouldn't be some new character.

Basicly, WW Link would be as much of a "New character" as TP Link. Personally I don't think he will get in simply because this would be the first time 2 characters from the same series was in 2 different art styles but W/E, he is just a upgraded Y Link and not actual "comp" for a new comer spot.
(I also don't think Sheik will come back but that off topic some what)

And is this HighLander? Can there "ONLY BE ONNNNEEEE!!!"? Really, after a updated Y Link I really don't see why both Midna and Vaati OR Shull Kid couldn't be in.

1. So I need a source to say "Midna isn't the main character", while you provide none for me to counter in the first place?

2. Sonic got in for being one of the most significant third party characters ever. And for his rivalry with Mario. Also, did you just compare the fanbase of the "today's flavor" to Sonic?

3. I bet you anything that if you looked at the manual, they don't put Midna over Link in the characters list.

Fun fact: Starring role isn't the focus of the game, it's *drumroll* the person you play as. And speaking of the cover, her helmet's in the logo while Link is the actual person on the cover, for the sole reason that she's the plot element of TP. Just like Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons, The Minish Cap, The Wind Waker, and the Four Sword. The Oracles were about Din and Nayru as much as TP is about Midna.

4. Looking at detective stories, they rarely are about the detective but a case of his. Under your logic, the detective would not be the main character. However, they are with no exception the main character.

5. Why's that? We have very few villains, and few good choices for them for Brawl. Mario will likely get two (Bowser and Jr.), so why not Zelda?

6. Tingle's chances have no doubt decreased, but a trophy is not a deconfirmation. I wouldn't be surprised if he were included -OR- excluded, but the only deconfirmation would involve a character being something that cannot be playable, such as an Assist Trophy or item.

7. Same boat? I'm not sure if you mean importance or chances.

8. The story is about the Minish Cap, which Ezlo created. Link's first major involvement in the plot was Ezlo having Link aide him in defeating Vaati.

9. Yes, Vaati had three appearances. Three appearances where he was probably the third most important character in the game, give or take a place on that ranking. Skull Kid had an unimportant role in OoT, an important role in MM, and a role of little importance in TP. Two unimportant and one important appearances versus three extremely important characters. Skull Kid is reused for the same reason Moblins and Dodongos are - not because they have a great deal of infatuation for him as a character, but because they like him somewhat and want to make sure they use him. Vaati, however, had two great multi-player games, and because of their success, they made the first main Zelda game to feature Vaati. They wouldn't have used the character in such important roles for such important games if they merely liked him.

10. Or, you could ask story writers, who understand the concept that with the exception of the narrator or an unknown perspective, the one who the reader/viewer/gamer sees the world through is the main character. To reiterate my detective point, the story isn't about the detective, but the detective's case, but he IS the main character of the story.

11. Being shown as a trophy isn't being deconfirmed. If it were a trophy that assists, he'd be out. But characters are able to be trophies as well.

12. They will have to make a new moveset. It's not like they're not adding anyone - they take away a clone, and add in a brand new character with the same concept. They substract .5 and add 1, we're getting more than we had. With TP Link, they changed his appearance and ever so slightly modified his moves. With TWW Link, he would be a brand new character. Completely different design, stat distribution, A moves, B moves, taunts, etc. They would not be able to build off of Young Link like TP Link did, so they would have to build WW Link from the ground up.

13. I really do not see more than five characters from Zelda getting in. I don't count Sheik in the character count, but I still realize that she takes up more space and takes more time to create than FLUDD. We have Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf as a given, WW Link as the next most likely, and if we get a fifth, I think it should be the character who has more importance to the series in general than one game.

 

[SolidSonic]

Ah. Wait until you play through the whole thing, if you haven't already. A lot of peoples' minds change later on. As an example, a friend of mine despised Midna until quite a while after finishing TP, when he realized just how important she was to the story, and just how fulfilling she made the game. He couldn't stand Minish Cap or Phantom Hourglass for more than a few minutes because...well, while playing it on my DS, he flicked it off and turned to me and said "Yitik," (cuz that's what they call me) "we need Midna back."

You'll also see that she does have the capabilities to be a Brawl character, and that she becomes much more than just a giant, slave-driving hand riding on Link.

Okay I'll reserve further judgment until I beat the game.

I think I'm 3/4 or 4/5 of the way through it. Just rented it for an additional week.

 

[HipsterKid]

1. So I need a source to say "Midna isn't the main character", while you provide none for me to counter in the first place?

Yes, because you were the first one to act like you own Nintendo so I would like to see why you say that.

2. Sonic got in for being one of the most significant third party characters ever. And for his rivalry with Mario. Also, did you just compare the fanbase of the "today's flavor" to Sonic?

For one, I didn't compare the fanbase of Sonic with Midna. If you'd noticed, I used Sonic's popularity as an example. And Midna is actually the flavor of the year. Not just today's flavor. :]]]

3. I bet you anything that if you looked at the manual, they don't put Midna over Link in the characters list.

Fun fact: Starring role isn't the focus of the game, it's *drumroll* the person you play as. And speaking of the cover, her helmet's in the logo while Link is the actual person on the cover, for the sole reason that she's the plot element of TP. Just like Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons, The Minish Cap, The Wind Waker, and the Four Sword. The Oracles were about Din and Nayru as much as TP is about Midna.

Actually, I have the manual handy... Nope no character list at all. :/ Bad reference material. Actually, I'd have to say that the story is the focus of the game. Let's see, who does the story revolve around.. *drumroll* Midna! And obviously they're going to have Link on the front cover. Because it would make SO much more sense to have Midna on the cover of a Legend of Zelda game, right? Because, it would make more sense to have an at-first-random character be on the cover of a game. That's really going to make sales go up, right?

4. Looking at detective stories, they rarely are about the detective but a case of his. Under your logic, the detective would not be the main character. However, they are with no exception the main character.

Yes, but in this situation, there is only one character. With Twilight Princess, there is actually more than one character you can consider.

5. Why's that? We have very few villains, and few good choices for them for Brawl. Mario will likely get two (Bowser and Jr.), so why not Zelda?

Yes, but if you've noticed, the Mario Series doesn't Branch off into two different types of game styles like The Legend of Zelda does. Ganon and Vaati have developed to be villains in their own branch of the LoZ series. However, Ganon outdoes Vaati. The only thing that let Bowser and Bowser Jr. coexist is the fact that they are in the same branch of Mario games.

6. Tingle's chances have no doubt decreased, but a trophy is not a deconfirmation. I wouldn't be surprised if he were included -OR- excluded, but the only deconfirmation would involve a character being something that cannot be playable, such as an Assist Trophy or item.

Well you can go ahead and explain that to the chunk of Smashboards that likes to think so. It doesn't matter to me because I don't particularly care for Tingle.

7. Same boat? I'm not sure if you mean importance or chances.

Well of course I meant chances.


I will take the other responses as responses made to Black/Light. I leaves those for Black/Light to take care of. However, there is one thing I question.

13. I really do not see more than five characters from Zelda getting in. I don't count Sheik in the character count, but I still realize that she takes up more space and takes more time to create than FLUDD. We have Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf as a given, WW Link as the next most likely, and if we get a fifth, I think it should be the character who has more importance to the series in general than one game.

Who could you honestly consider?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I'm going to bed, so ask me this:

There's only one character in a detective story? Do you not consider the victim, criminal, witnesses, etc. as characters? They are the primary focus of the story, but none of them are treated as the main ones.

Also, I own Nintendo?

Huh.

I didn't know I'm the one who stated someone being a main character as fact.

But I did, didn't I?

But based on every conventional basis for what the main character in a game is.

You, however, go on your own theory as to why Midna is the main. You do not care about any supporting evidence from Nintendo's maw, only your opinion on the matter.

 

[HipsterKid]

I'm going to bed, so ask me this:

There's only one character in a detective story? Do you not consider the victim, criminal, witnesses, etc. as characters? They are the primary focus of the story, but none of them are treated as the main ones.

In your scenario, yes there was only the detective as a character. No victim, criminal, witnesses, etc. were presented therefore I'm left to believe that the detective doesn't erally have a case.

Also, I own Nintendo?

Huh.

I'm only saying you're acting like it. You're the one creating that image. With your "Nintendo treats Link as the primary character as well. Just because you, unlike Nintendo, consider Midna as THE main character does not mean that she is." comment. That sounds like something coming straight from Nintendo.

I didn't know I'm the one who stated someone being a main character as fact.

But I did, didn't I?

But based on every conventional basis for what the main character in a game is.

You, however, go on your own theory as to why Midna is the main. You do not care about any supporting evidence from Nintendo's maw, only your opinion on the matter.

Well, for one, where exactly did the basis for what a main character come from? Is there a particular place, such as a link, that I could have that could possibly explain to me where you're getting this basis? and, for two, I have never stated what I have said to be fact. What I have really is a theory. I believe it to be true because my basis is the story. I have told you again and again that I'm basing this of the story. Whether or not that's what makes the main character is for each of us to decide. It's pretty evident that most people are choosing a story basis rather whatever you're basing it on.

 

[Black/Light]

. . You should have made this clearer. Replying to 2 people with out directing your replies clearly make things hard to understand. I will start at. . .8 seeing as Hipserkid took the others.

8. The story is about the Minish Cap, which Ezlo created. Link's first major involvement in the plot was Ezlo having Link aide him in defeating Vaati.

Elzo was the MC and it wasn't "Link aiding him to beat Vaati". He was the one helping Link. . . it wasn't about Link helping him "beat Vaati". Link met him, befriended him and he joined link on a long advanture. . . according to what I know.

9. Yes, Vaati had three appearances. Three appearances where he was probably the third most important character in the game, give or take a place on that ranking. Skull Kid had an unimportant role in OoT, an important role in MM, and a role of little importance in TP. Two unimportant and one important appearances versus three extremely important characters. Skull Kid is reused for the same reason Moblins and Dodongos are - not because they have a great deal of infatuation for him as a character, but because they like him somewhat and want to make sure they use him. Vaati, however, had two great multi-player games, and because of their success, they made the first main Zelda game to feature Vaati. They wouldn't have used the character in such important roles for such important games if they merely liked him.

Vaati was the main villian of 2 games (4 swords and MC. 4 swords was actually the only game to have him as a main villian before he became Ganon's b*** in 4 swords advanture. MC was after these but was set before them) and a pon of Ganon's in 4 swords advanture (aka, Ganon's b****).

This was simply the 4 swords era. . . one could say not nearly as important as, say, the 2nd 3D LoZ title where they took the Skull Kid from OoT, gave him a mask and made him the main villian of a console game. Vaati was a important villian. . . in lesser games than MM.

And to me he sounds like a "fuller villian". Not nearly as great as Ganon and used for the lesser games. Along the same lines as SK.

10. Or, you could ask story writers, who understand the concept that with the exception of the narrator or an unknown perspective, the one who the reader/viewer/gamer sees the world through is the main character. To reiterate my detective point, the story isn't about the detective, but the detective's case, but he IS the main character of the story.

That detective example isn't the best example ya know. The detective would be telling you, a out side veiwer, the story not as if you are the detective. You are completely limated to veiwing the story only as he tells it.
Thats not the case here. TP would fall under the view of another story I have read before.

It's called The Bluest Eye .
A book where even thouht you go along the story mostly from the perpective of the character Claudia MacTeer (main narrator) the story is cleary about Pecola Breedlove , (SHE is the main character)and the things that happened to her leading to her fall into a state of insanity. You don't see anything from Pecola's perspective untill she hits insanity at the end of the book and talks to her self.
So no, the character's perpective that you see the story from is not always the main character of the story it self. The main character of the story is the character the story revols around.
(look up the book. . . it's a GREAT read!!!)

Oh, and the detective isn't always the main character. He could be telling you the events leading up to the death of a. . .John Dow. How John Dow had a fight with his GF, how he was walking around drunk one night, how he was depressed, how he almost killed himself and etc etc etc. . . John Dow would be the main character in that case even if the detective is telling you the story because it's all about John Dow and not the Detective.

11. Being shown as a trophy isn't being deconfirmed. If it were a trophy that assists, he'd be out. But characters are able to be trophies as well.

Well how many character's have been shown on the site BEFORE being shown as a new comer in sticker or trophy form? THATS why people are calling it a de-confirmation.

12. They will have to make a new moveset. It's not like they're not adding anyone - they take away a clone, and add in a brand new character with the same concept. They substract .5 and add 1, we're getting more than we had. With TP Link, they changed his appearance and ever so slightly modified his moves. With TWW Link, he would be a brand new character. Completely different design, stat distribution, A moves, B moves, taunts, etc. They would not be able to build off of Young Link like TP Link did, so they would have to build WW Link from the ground up.

Sorry but thats a complete guess. You have no idle how much they would choose to change Y Link. Changing him to a simplelure design and changeing afew attacks well still reasonablely keeping his stats and size the same aint much compared to another fully unique character. Really, it's still Link. . . .his moves are NOT going to be soo different that it warrents calling him a new character made from the grund up. He would be Y Link with a new look and a few different moves.