The Official Zero Suit Samus Discussion

[Vali]

It's the competitive community which will choose themselves to not play with that character, not Sakurai's ultimatum to the hardcore community. This game is also going to be made with the casuals in main focus (because that is the majority of them buying the game) and I'm afraid that is almost always items on. You're also forgetting that it provides an equal advantage. Sure there is no skill that the item appears next to someone, but there's an equal chance it'll appear right next to the other person. It's an element of chance sure that is added in, but at the moment we don't know anything really about it other than that it exists and what it does and people are so hasty to draw conclusions.

You also seemed to miss my comparison with ZSS and Samus to Zelda and Sheik. Zelda was made weak in stats and moves in female form because of the Sheik transformation, I don't know that for fact but it makes so much sense I'd be tempted to put money on it. Zelda would not have exactly the same weak stats at least had it not been for Sheik, because being able to switch to Sheik as a Zelda player is a huge advantage. Had Sheik been cut from the final game, Zelda would've experienced a stat boost in order to balance out the loss of a different style of play, moveset and power and this would've improved Zelda far beyond the godawful state she is currently in.

In the same way, Samus would not be able to retain the same moveset strength as Melee in addition to gaining an entirely different transformation moveset of greater or equal strength, because it provides a huge advantage (of different playstyles, unpredictability if multiple transformation methods and advantage in strength) and you simply can't make Brawl balanced by taking an already awesome character and then further improving it. Thus Samus, if ZSS is > or = in strength, would have to be weakened in order to compensate for this moveset. Thus ZSS to Samus can be seen potentially like Sheik is to Zelda.

 

[mkmelee]

TOO.MANY.POSTS

Geez. 90% of the posts in this thread repeats the same crap over and over again.

The answer to this is simple. Zero Suit Samus can use a Smash Ball even after using FS as Samus.
When she does grab it, her hair turns Black. If her suit has already been thrown off the field/destroyed, this basically does nothing. If it remains, she uses her new intelligence/common sense to piece her suit together, fix any errors, and don it again.

But seriously. If this 'problem' remains, the answer really is simple. First, we hope to God that Sakurai doesn't suck the game up by making the Smash Ball mandatory.
Then, we turn items off, play as Samus or any other character, and forget that ZSS was ever introduced to Smash.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I really think in the end Samus/ZSS will end up like Zelda/Sheik in a way..

One WILL be better than the other in some ways or another. People are going to want to use one form over the other.. Depending on the way they play, or if one ends up on the opposite tier some how.

I'm going to have to take a look at ZSS when the game comes out so I can see if I like it or not. She could end up being my main or a secondary, or not.

I trust Sakurai because he has worked on previous games and I'm sure he knows what hes doing since he said he was going for balance. I mostly trust him because whatever he does, well I can't do anything about it. I may end up liking it, I may not. And if its an item or the FS I could just turn it off though I do love the variety of items and what they do.

Some of my ideas may end up in the game but I'm not going to hate it if everything I had hoped for isn't in the game. When I first played the game I had no idea how it worked and I had to adapt to it. I'm sure you don't want the same game just with some improved graphics, it can have an entirely new feel that has balanced everything out.

And.. I think I'm just pulling out random words from my head now, so I'm going to stop...

 

[Aninymouse]

I read four pages of posts in this thread, but ultimately no one has been able to convincingly dissuade me from my opinion.

And it is this. Samus will be the only one of the two to appear on the select screen. Holding "A" will let you begin the match with ZSamus, but if you die then you begin again as Samus. ZSamus will be much faster but relatively weaker. She will have her own Final Smash. I find this the most likely option, though by NO MEANS is it preferrable. Limiting the transfomation to the use of a "rare, indeed" item and making it one way only seems counter-intuitive to a fighting game.

Ultimately... I can't see ZSamus as being on the select screen at all. I also can't see you being able to remain as ZSamus throughtout the match after you use your Final Smash as Samus, because then you would be inclined to allow your opponent to grab the Final Smash just so you could keep Samus. The logic behind this statement is that IF you chose to play as Samus from the begging, why would you want to be forced to use a different character after using your FS? So, I imagine that you Power Suit regenerates after you get KOed.

So, unless you have the option of starting EACH STOCK as either character by button press, ZSamus's inclusion in Brawl seems a complete waste.

Granted, if after you're KOed you never regain your Power Suit, then it doesn't seem fair to Samus. At that point, ZSamus comes to the forefront for the simple reason that you'd be forced to use her.

At least with Shiek, we had a choice. A forced transformation with no way for the player to influence their own character's moveset is an aweful idea. I hope this is not the case in the final build. Hopefully... Sakurai will clear this up soon.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

First off, Melee was unbalanced as it was, I really doubt Sakurai would've boosted Zelda if Sheik was cut. It really doesn't make any sense in a game where the tiers of all the characters vary so much.
I still fail to see how having Sheik cut would increase the usage of Zelda, considering they didn't like using Zelda when Sheik was around, why would they like her if Sheik wasn't there? They would have gone off to main someone else like Fox or Peach or what have you.

Second, we are not even talking about how good ZeroSSamus is, it's not the point! It doesn't matter if Samus is stronger than ZeroSSamus or not, pretty much for the aforementioned reasons. Even if ZeroSSamus is the worst character in the game, there will be times when someone wants to play as her, and guess what, you can't! You have to pick Samus, wait for a Smash Ball to appear, AND make sure you get it and not one of the other one, two, or three characters on the map gets it first. Under these conditions, you'd be lucky to have ZeroSSamus for even half the match!

Third, this isn't even counting the items discussion. You are literally restricting an entire character just because you turned off items. If you are fine with this, you don't appreciate the resources spent on making a character in such a game. Even bottom tier characters in Melee weren't physically restricted, they were always there to be used, just chosen not to, whereas you would actually not be able to use ZeroSSamus whether you wanted to or not.

Summary:
If you still think it is worthwhile having a character who can be used, on average, half the time, instead of a character who can be used all the time--whenever and for however long you desire--than there's nothing left to discuss, you just can't comprehend things on a comparative level, and don't understand efficiency and "time well spent."

EDIT: I like what ANinyMouse said. Giving your opponent a super powerful attack just so you can keep your character seems pretty foolish to me. Thank You.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Vali, I know there is an "equal" chance for each player to have it land near him, but that doesn't change the fact that some people aren't lucky lol. Take me for instance, I swear I am one of the most unlucky people when it comes to smash. The Yoshi Story Cloud hates me. It actually causes my death frequently and never is there when I need it. Also it seems to always be around for my foes. As a result I stray from play the level. The element of chance is not something the skilled player likes to rely on so it isn't good for competitive play and remember it is a competitive game. Though on the recreational note, even before I got into tournaments and all that, myself, my friends and just about anyone I met never used items. So that is the main problem I have with ZSS at the moment.

EDIT: I agree with the above post.

 

[mkmelee]

But why would ZSS be so easily selectable (by holding a) if it appears that she is the consequences of Samus' FS? That goes against the whole logic of Samus' FS.

And why would Zero Suit Samus have her own FS if this is supposed to be a one time use thing? Samus players using FS twice a match regardless of turning into ZSS is unfair, when the others can only use 1.

I know it's logical that ZSS should be selectable in some other way, but having that available to you, and her being a result of Samus' FS just messes things up.

 

[Uttermadness]

You know...I find it odd how Sakurai said now she's 'just' zero suit Samus. I'd bet money that Zero Suit Samus is a weakened version of Samus and that she gets her suit back after death. Ice Climbers kind of had a mechanic like this when Nana was killed you would be weakened until you start a new life.

 

[mkmelee]

Yeah but that was a result of a gay ai, and no super boosts.

I highly doubt that ZSS actually will be as bad as people seem to think she will be.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Dying and coming back as Samus is worse yet, you would never be able to use zero suit samus to an effective consistency. And I can't wait for Vali to reply to my above post. It's going to be a fiesta up in here.

 

[Michael Blaine]

Sakurai did say something about samus not liking to take a lot of damage. That could well be an alternate way to access the ZS version. I would put money on there being at least one other way to choose ZS alone. This thread has turned to paranoia. Sakurai is not an imbecile, I don't think. I doubt he would put a character in that could rarely be used. Unless she rediculously oober, but still even then I doubt it.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

I'm sure the Japanese are going on about this, just like us. Let us hope that Sakurai, or someone close to him, goes to the forums to see what people are talking about and their opinions.

 

[Gindor]

I have an idea how samus/zamus works. You start out as samus normally, but if you press A, you start as zamus.
-If you when with the first, when samus gets her smash ball, she uses the zero beam and loses her armor. then if you grabb another, all of her armor reappears on her, and if you get another, the armor falls off again.
-If you chose the second, when zamus gets the smash ball, she does her final smash and puts her power suit on, and when she gets another, she loses her armor.

This would allow for her to have two styles and final smashes to chose from, and an ablitity to change between the two.

Samus would have her basic ssbm style while zamus would have a more speed oriented and less projectile oriented style. Samus' FS is powerful and would leave any survivors to the speed of zamus to finish them. Zamus' would probably be fast or stun the foe, leaving them open to samus' power.

 

[Michael Blaine]

they definitely look at forums. they know what's going on. i just hope some of them are looking at this one.

eh, I really don't think whoever does these updates was thinking "hmm, I know this update is about the Bridge of Eldin, but I REALLY want zero suit samus somewhere in here, so I'll choose samus and wait around until the smash ball pops out, catch it, blast everyone, then take a picture of Lord Bublin trampling zero suit and kirby....... Yeah, that added about 5 extra minutes to the process of making this screenshot, but it was SO worth it."

At least I hope they don't have to do this.

 

[Gindor]

You have too admit, the zero beam is awesome.

EDIT-I always thought that smaus might become zamus if she takes enough damage.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

they definitely look at forums. they know what's going on. i just hope some of them are looking at this one.

eh, I really don't think whoever does these updates was thinking "hmm, I know this update is about the Bridge of Eldin, but I REALLY want zero suit samus somewhere in here, so I'll choose samus and wait around until the smash ball pops out, catch it, blast everyone, then take a picture of Lord Bublin trampling zero suit and kirby....... Yeah, that added about 5 extra minutes to the process of making this screenshot, but it was SO worth it."

At least I hope they don't have to do this.

Wow, that is a very good point. Though, They probably have like a special mode where they can chose to be anything, like Gigabowser or something like that. Either way though, I hope that is true, because there are a lot of picks with zerosuit. lol and you know that the team doesn't actually play games and take random pictures while they are playing. They are all pretty much set up. Let us hope this is true.

 

[Michael Blaine]

yeah exactly, the updater's laziness is what I'm banking on, lol

 

[WHO?AreYou]

I'm sure this has been said about a thousand times before, but here it is again.
Just because the Final Smash is the way that Zamus appears that has been confirmed doesn't mean it's the only one. Nowhere on any official statement or in the guide did it state the "hold down A" sheik trick. My guess is they'll have an option like that in Brawl

 

[Gindor]

The final smash, zero laser, sould have being called "zero beam" instead, because lazers are usually thin and samus obtained an incredible amount of beams thoughout her travels.

 

[Masque]

Well, at least Sakurai showed us with his latest update that Zamus still has some decent range. I'm more interested in her Special Moves than her bio, but I guess we just take what we're given for now.

*secretly wishes that Peach were the character for this week*

 

[dj asakura]

i love how even with the new update soley about ZSS, it doesnt confirm her as seletable by herself, hahahah

 

[Kais]

ZSS uses an item to become playable.

/thread

I know, it's killing me as well...

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Ah... I guess it was an obvious update since we were shown her again yesterday and how you get to her..

New screenshots are nice though, her whip looks pretty devestating... Her kicking Pit makes her look possessed or something haha.

 

[silver777]

dont you find it odd that Zamus has her own profile?

maybe she is a selectable character after all.

This is a hold up! Give me all your money!

LoooL XD

 

[Michael Blaine]

So I finally see the whip. Nice.

And the gun paralyzes? So we have falco + shiek with a dash of marth? That's cool. As long as she can't chain grab almost everyone in the game I'm fine with it.

 

[Aki-toriko]

Given that ZSS has her own profile in the character screen is interesting, it still confirms that they are treating her as her own character, rather than just an offshoot of regular Samus as the last update would imply.
I'd find it very odd, given the amount of promotion they've given ZSS as a newcomer and a unique character, if the only way to unlock her was through a completely random event. Surely there will be some way to play as her at the start as well.

 

[edgeswipe21]

yea its kinda weird that only time u can use zss is when u use the final smash. i wonder if final smash 'item" in fact and item bc if u turn it off u lose a character?! I hope theres another way to acheive it.

 

[Salaad]

Lol, ZSS with SHL and Shiek attacks = awesome, no need to do anything there. Game over. xD

(Not looking for someone with a comeback)

 

[Fawriel]

Too many points.. can't remember all... oh well.

Vali, you are missing one critical point in your analysis.
Zelda and Sheik could switch more or less freely between one another, which is why they had to treat them as a singular character.

I figure that if you transform in the start by pressing A, you won't be turning back again. Come to think of it, that probably means there's a different, more complicated method. But yeah. I very, very strongly doubt that there's any way to quickly switch between one another in-game. Which is why their movesets can be treated like separate characters'.

Meh, too bad there's no hints towards a different method. Oh well, at least he's making her out to be quite usable. And she's treated like a complete character.

Which brings me to the other point.
I'm nowhere near to being a part of the tournament or no-items scene, and I'd still very much hate having a perfectly usable and seemingly fun character in the game, with the TINY disadvantage that it's unlikely to even be able to play as her for a short time even if items are on. Durrh.

 

[Xanderous]

Given that ZSS has her own profile in the character screen is interesting, it still confirms that they are treating her as her own character, rather than just an offshoot of regular Samus as the last update would imply.
I'd find it very odd, given the amount of promotion they've given ZSS as a newcomer and a unique character, if the only way to unlock her was through a completely random event. Surely there will be some way to play as her at the start as well.

More people should listen to this fella.

 

[edgeswipe21]

weird, weird, weird. i guess it'll have to be a technicality if thats all ther is to it. u might get lucky and play zss other wise i think u just play samus, i don't see a transformation ne where, so u might be stuck with one or the other character. How come they didn't mention sheik in zelda's profile?

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I have no real nature in this thread than to make some side comments.

I'm 50/50 on this and either way I don't care. Though that one idea is true.. if she has gotten so much attention as an individual character and has her own profile. I don't see why she won't be an individual character of her own.. Though I find it odd with facts on both sides.

 

[Michael Blaine]

they're hiding something.

 

[dynamic_entry]

they're hiding something.

you sir, are a comic genius.

/salute

 

[OnyxVulpine]

they're hiding something.

Yeah about 70% of the entire game at this point... Well maybe not hiding...

Maybe a few things are yet to be announced but most of the game is probably still in development.

 

[the grim lizard]

Continue with the speculation...

Edit:

Maybe a few things are yet to be announced but most of the game is probably still in development.

Um, no. Most the the game probably isn't still in development.

 

[Elysium]

Yeah about 70% of the entire game at this point... Well maybe not hiding...

Anybody vouch for 2 updates a day?

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Well.. *Starts thinking*
They still have quite a way to go I think... Lots more characters, stages, items, FSs.

Yep, makes you wonder how much of the game is actually done..

 

[silver777]

the game is finished IMO, they are putting the final touches in it.

 

[Chibirobo]

You probably can turn into Zamus at the begginning of the match,but as an easter egg that we'll find about after the game is released.