The Official Zero Suit Samus Discussion

[typh]

Yeah, I don't see why he would still make them two separate characters after this. I think he would have said something, and honestly what's the point of making Samus turn into ZSS after a Final Smash if you could just pick ZSS in the first place? It seems like he's making ZSS a "bonus" for the Final Smash, essentially forcing us to play with Final Smashes if we want to play as ZSS.

I'm not saying I don't want ZSS as a separate character, I hope to god she is, but as now I'm not seeing it.

And stop assuming things.

 

[joepinion]

A few things:

A couple of people have suggested that there is one Final Smash per match. I would guess that that's wrong, and that FSs appear as much as any typical item (say, Mr. Freezie) but that each player can only use them once per match.

Also, sure, there could be possibly some way to play an entire match as ZSS. Why not? We don't know for sure, but may. However, there's absolutely no indication that you can switch from ZSS back to Samus. In fact, her suit is blown to pieces and stays on screen. Don't be expecting to go from ZSS to Samus.

 

[RoadsArePoison]

It would be nice, albeit not too likely, if you could choose to start as ZSS by holding A when the match starts. But so what if you can't? From the videos we've seen, ZSS seems to have pretty similar A moves to Sheik. I wouldn't have a problem with someone as powerful as Sheik being unavailable during itemless (normal) play.
And if she's not that powerful and still isn't available, big deal. There will probably be about 34 other characters to choose from.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Obviously, I have no proof behind this, but I believe that there will be a way to play as ZSS without items. Did anyone ever think that Sheik could never be played in Single Button Mode? I did for a while until I learned about her little hold-A-to-change-before-the-match-starts trick. Of course, we no longer care about Single Button Mode, but it just goes to show that Sheik was thought of as a separate character, so the creators provided a way to enable her in all situations. Heck, even when KO'd, Sheik stays Sheik upon reentry. She has her own life icons, her own victory screen, her own physics entirely, etc.

For ZSS, they might do something similar. By holding some arbitrary button, Samus just starts the match without her power suit. The only question that comes to mind is this: what if you die? Do you reenter the match as normal Samus? That would introduce some interesting gameplay elements. Imagine ZSS being top tier but difficult to access.

EDIT -- Gah, I click post, and two more posts appear with basically what I just said. >_<

 

[burrito]

I think that Zamus will still be a seperate selectable character from Samus. She'll still have her own character slot,

 

[MzNetta]

Do we even know that The Smash Ball is a normal item?
It could very well be a powerful entity that whimsically floats down to the stage once per match.
It's not listed as an item on the dojo site.
What if it CANT be turned off?

^Speculations^

Don't burn me.

 

[joepinion]

Well, although it's not categorized as an item, it is referred to as an item in the Final Smash description.

Although I understand what you're saying, and I suppose it is a distinct possibility. Perhaps each stage has various FS points where the FS usually shows up.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

Well, after a night of sleeping on it, I actually like this idea. I mean, just LOOK at Samus' Final Smash. It's like, an INSTANT ****. There's gotta be a downside to it. PLUS, who says there IS a downside? What if ZSS actually owns? Before I hated this idea, and wondered if turning off the Smash Ball was possible, but now I like the idea of FS = ZSS.

On another note, now we all have a mission. As soon as you get SSBB, pick Samus, pick any random stage, and hold A!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Do we even know that The Smash Ball is a normal item?
It could very well be a powerful entity that whimsically floats down to the stage once per match.
It's not listed as an item on the dojo site.
What if it CANT be turned off?

^Speculations^

Don't burn me.

I've often wondered about that. It really does not look like a typical 'item'. Final Smashes may be here to stay. XD

 

[Caael]

I think that Zamus will still be a seperate selectable character from Samus. She'll still have her own character slot,

Of course, especially since the update today was dedicated on getting her from a FINAL SMASH. Do you not listen? This is basically what you just said:

' Sakurai said today that Zero Suit Samus is playable by getting a final smash with Samus, so I think Zero Suit Samus is her own character'

Stupid people like you are why there are so many criminals. Think before you post.

 

[the grim lizard]

Well, although it's not categorized as an item, it is referred to as an item in the Final Smash description.

Link's bombs and Peach's turnips are technically items, as you don't get the item bonus when you use them in 1P mode. Those aren't banned from tournaments. While something can be technically "an item" that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[MzNetta]

Manditory Smash Balls for Tourneys.

That would be gg.

Also, the more I think about this idea, the more it grows on me.
I Love playing as Samus, and I think I'll love playing as Zamus.
She is the same woman, after all.


Also, I can bone my ******** family members who are convinced that Samus is a guy, with the skanky bounty hunter first hand.

 

[lanky_gunner]

Of course, especially since the update today was dedicated on getting her from a FINAL SMASH. Do you not listen? This is basically what you just said:

' Sakurai said today that Zero Suit Samus is playable by getting a final smash with Samus, so I think Zero Suit Samus is her own character'

Stupid people like you are why there are so many criminals. Think before you post.

(hits head on keyboard after every word)

WHY...MUST...TODAYS...UPDATE...CAUSE...MORE...PROBLEMS...THAN...SOLUTIONS!!

 

[Pyroloserkid]

I think that Zamus will still be a seperate selectable character from Samus. She'll still have her own character slot,

Now what would be the point in THAT? Obviously Sakurai wouldn't make a seperate slot for her (ZSS) if you can only play her through Samus' FS.
But then we have another question: Is the Final Smash the ONLY way to play as ZSS?

Ugh, Sakurai posts a character update which is supposed to clear up some speculation, and it only creates even more speculation.

 

[Leobenmc]

*yawns*
It's simple.
Final Smashes are activated by Pressing A + B together.
You can collect Smash Balls, and you start glowing, meaning you have FS available.
You can hold me to that.

That means, you can collect the Smash Ball to stop people from using it - and NOT USE IT if you're so bent on playing on Samus.

I for one am very happy - this is a great change which shows Brawl is EVOLVING, coming up with new ideas. It may not be appreciated now, but that's because SmashBoards is SOO grounded in Melee that any change (Oh god, no WAVEDASH/SHFFLs/CONSTANT SAMUS) is immediately a negative. Let Sakurai create a more refined Smash game will you?

 

[raptorbaby10]

*yawns*
It's simple.
Final Smashes are activated by Pressing A + B together.
You can collect Smash Balls, and you start glowing, meaning you have FS available.
You can hold me to that.

That means, you can collect the Smash Ball to stop people from using it - and NOT USE IT if you're so bent on playing on Samus.

I for one am very happy - this is a great change which shows Brawl is EVOLVING, coming up with new ideas. It may not be appreciated now, but that's because SmashBoards is SOO grounded in Melee that any change (Oh god, no WAVEDASH/SHFFLs/CONSTANT SAMUS) is immediately a negative. Let Sakurai create a more refined Smash game will you?

Finally, someone who has some common sense.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Now, this update seems grim to me. I think it would be a really big mistake to make a final smash the only way to play a character with a completely different and original moveset. This does not confirm that she will not be a seperate character, there are other ways for it to work. She could have her own slot as if you unlock her by using the final smash. She could be like sheik(I don't mean transforming) and hold A or something at the start of the match to become ZSS. The problem with this is that you can't just change back which isn't really a big problem. She could be like an "alternate costume" for samus by cycling through the colors, but she would still have a unique moveset. These are some of my thoughts about what could happen. Something i am wondering though, if samus uses the final smash then turns into ZSS and then dies... do you think she would stay suitless or gain it back? Either way, hopefully more updates will enlighten us on this situation.

 

[Kid_tech_21]

this is my first post and its pretty ridicoulous tht the only way to become zss is to use the final smash. and then neva bein able to change bakk to the original suit, from wat i know

 

[the grim lizard]

Watch...Samus' vB will actually be turning into Zamus and she'll lose her bombs...now THAT would be a travesty. Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

 

[Del Money]

*yawns*
It's simple.
Final Smashes are activated by Pressing A + B together.
You can collect Smash Balls, and you start glowing, meaning you have FS available.
You can hold me to that.

That means, you can collect the Smash Ball to stop people from using it - and NOT USE IT if you're so bent on playing on Samus.

I for one am very happy - this is a great change which shows Brawl is EVOLVING, coming up with new ideas. It may not be appreciated now, but that's because SmashBoards is SOO grounded in Melee that any change (Oh god, no WAVEDASH/SHFFLs/CONSTANT SAMUS) is immediately a negative. Let Sakurai create a more refined Smash game will you?

maybe i missed something on the brawl site but where did you hear that f-smashes were activated by A+B, and would it also be A+B on the wiimote setup?

this is my first post and its pretty ridicoulous tht the only way to become zss is to use the final smash. and then neva bein able to change bakk to the original suit, from wat i know

congrats on your first post but if you dont want your next posts to be flamed i suggest you wait for more info before assuming. theres probably more people on this board POed about the people complaining about todays update than there are people POed ABOUT todays update

Watch...Samus' vB will actually be turning into Zamus and she'll lose her bombs...now THAT would be a travesty. Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

i doubt thatll happen. its could but its i little unlikely. i figured if that were the case, we wouldve gotten samus special moves today as well

 

[Ryuujiin]

I find it so funny that people are immediately figuring Zamus is going to suck because she's a part of Samus. And yet Sheik is top tier despite being Zelda's down B. I think she's going to be a great, fast character (Haloid comes to mind) who's a nice contrast to Samus but still retains the same style (they are the same person btw). There's no way Sakurai would've made her a totally seperate character since they're the exact same person.

A simple way to play as her if you don't want to have final smashes is to have her selectable in the alternate costumes. Just have it cycle through Samus' costumes and then cycle through Zamus' costumes. This way you don't have the chance that one accidentally let go of A stick you with Samus for the game..

One thing that bothers me though is Zamus' final smash. Every character has a final smash and Zamus still counts as a character so it's pretty much certain that she has her own. But until we find out what Zamus can actually do, we'll have no idea what her final smash could be and if that might give her her suit back or not.

And what does that mean for the final smash item itself? I think it's just one final smash per item pick-up. That way it doesn't give samus an unfair advantage by being able to use final smash twice by having samus' and then zamus'. It could just be a rare drop.

So don't go cutting yourself or wishing death upon Sakurai just because of some decision. And don't give up on Zamus just because of how she comes out. You're here because you believe this game's gonna be great and one update isn't gonna change that.

 

[lcampoy8]

i don't mind i probably want even pick samus

 

[Gindor]

Now, this update seems grim to me. I think it would be a really big mistake to make a final smash the only way to play a character with a completely different and original moveset. This does not confirm that she will not be a seperate character, there are other ways for it to work. She could have her own slot as if you unlock her by using the final smash. She could be like sheik(I don't mean transforming) and hold A or something at the start of the match to become ZSS. The problem with this is that you can't just change back which isn't really a big problem. She could be like an "alternate costume" for samus by cycling through the colors, but she would still have a unique moveset. These are some of my thoughts about what could happen. Something i am wondering though, if samus uses the final smash then turns into ZSS and then dies... do you think she would stay suitless or gain it back? Either way, hopefully more updates will enlighten us on this situation.

Samus, will probably be able to return to her suit by dieing, and be able to FS again, like all characters probably will be able to do.

You'll all probably burn me for saying that you can FS multiple times, but I see it like how the power of an attack goes down as you use it (ex. charged shot), but it returns to normal when you die.

and if you can just die so you can use your FS again, it will make skilled players use their FS, rack up a lot of points, self-destruct (at the cost of one measely point, after their major point gain), and then use the next FS again to cheaply win tourneys. But it won't be efficient in one-on-one matches.

that would be a dark day

 

[freeman123]

Gindor
Samus, will probably be able to return to her suit by dieing, and be able to FS again, like all characters probably will be able to do.

Do, you know, how commas, work?

Ryuujiin
There's no way Sakurai would've made her a totally seperate character since they're the exact same person.

Ryuujiin
A simple way to play as her if you don't want to have final smashes is to have her selectable in the alternate costumes.

That's ********.

 

[Del Money]

HAHAHAHAHA. freeman123 pretty much hit the nail on the head...all 3 times

 

[Gindor]

Do, you know, how commas, work?

That's ********.

If you understood, why would the commas matter.
Having zamus as an alt costume would be ********.
Anyways, they'll probably fix the link/young link and mario/dr. mario character probs in brawl.

 

[JEBesh]

If you understood, why would the commas matter.

Because it's ****ing annoying.

 

[Vali]

Nice first post JEBesh .

On a completely unrelated note, I've yet to be wrong with a prediction yet. Today is +1 for Samus transforming into ZSamus after using the her final smash, thus putting the final nail in the coffin on the silly people that said that she'd be a completely separate character. Silly people.

Well, any prediction which doesn't concern Pikmin 3, E3 and my hopes and dreams .

 

[Gindor]

Well I'm sorry. It was a typo.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Nice first post JEBesh .

On a completely unrelated note, I've yet to be wrong with a prediction yet. Today is +1 for Samus transforming into ZSamus after using the her final smash, thus putting the final nail in the coffin on the silly people that said that she'd be a completely separate character. Silly people.

Well, any prediction which doesn't concern Pikmin 3, E3 and my hopes and dreams .

Silly people that speak in absolutes. Remember that it has not been confirmed she will not be playable any other way accept for the final smash.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I, for one believe that Zamus will be able to play as a separate character.

There should be more than one way to play with a character in Brawl,just like the ability to turn into Sheik in the beggining of the battle by holding down the A button during the stage selection.

Maybe the Zamus transformaiton is the way you have to unclock her.Seems too easy? Yes, but remember, you can unlock Jiggs by playing Classic mode on Very Easy.It's possible that you can grab a Smash Ball during classic mode and use her Bacon.After you beat the game,you challange her(Or probably after the match).

Sakurai is developing this game with everyone in mind.The last thing he wants to do is force someone into playing the game he/she doesn't want to.

 

[Vali]

Silly people that speak in absolutes. Remember that it has not been confirmed she will not be playable any other way accept for the final smash.

It's more the silly people that said "ZSamus won't be transformed by Samus' final smash, that was just for the trailer, she'll be a character on the character select screen!". But yes, I admit that while the possibility is always there that there's several ways of transforming, that would kinda detract from the whole unique transformation don't you think? If ZSamus truly is to Brawl what Sheik was to Melee then limiting the playtime as well as being exclusively limited to a final smash transformation can't be anything but positive.

What I think makes this update doubley-delicious is that people that otherwise would be against items completely may consider changing their stance for final smashes despite the obvious reality that the game will actually be balanced with final smashes in mind. Most people seem to consider it another tacked on move, for some reason, and don't realise that a particularly below-average character could have an absolutely fantastic final smash to bring him up to par and yet by turning off you're denying that character's potential. Giga Bowser may well be an example of this, seeming that Bowser was underwhelming in Melee.

More to the point, I am a silly person that speaks in absolutes.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It's more the silly people that said "ZSamus won't be transformed by Samus' final smash, that was just for the trailer, she'll be a character on the character select screen!". But yes, I admit that while the possibility is always there that there's several ways of transforming, that would kinda detract from the whole unique transformation don't you think? If ZSamus truly is to Brawl what Sheik was to Melee then limited Melee as well as being exclusively limited to a final smash transformation then that can't be anything but positive.

What I think makes this update doubley-delicious is that people that otherwise would be against items completely may consider changing their stance for final smashes despite the obvious reality that the game will actually be balanced with final smashes in mind. Most people seem to consider it another tacked on move, for some reason, and don't realise that a particularly below-average character could have an absolutely fantastic final smash to bring him up to par and yet by turning off you're denying that character's potential. Giga Bowser may well be an example of this, seeming that Bowser was underwhelming in Melee.

More to the point, I am a silly person that speaks in absolutes.

Yes,but giving an option is diffirent, and is a considerate compromise, rather than forcing someone to play the game as it is.

Limiting game options isn't as appealing as you make it sound.Smash is about variety.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Yea, Final Smashes will likely be turned off in competitive play, so why would it be good to have Zero Suit only accessable through final smash? She wouldn't be played competitively. Your example and comparison to sheik is like taking sheik out completely... now i think a original character that is removed is a negative. Imagine if there were people that used Zero suit as a main and to play the match they would have to turn Final Smash on and wait for one to fall then use it. The match begins, you die(don't forget that more final smashes are falling) you come back as normal samus, which is uncomfirmed, you have to do it again. Now this would not happen in a tournament, no one would put up with it. Anyway you can see the problems it causes.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Vali, completely disregarding the fact that Sakurai spent a lot of time, energy, and resources making ZeroSSamus, how would having a character be available for a limited amount of time be positive?

Now incorporating the time, energy, and resources spent on ZeroSSamus, and she still is limited-time-only guarantee? Wouldn't you rather that time, energy, and resources spent on a character that can actually be used...ya know...whenever and for however long you want?

I would feel the same way towards ZeroSSamus the same as for Ganondorf from Melee-- ripped off. For Ganondorf, it was "We could've had an additional character to the roster, but they got rushed." And feelings for a ZeroSSamus which can be played for, if you're lucky, half a match, is getting jipped just like Ganondorf the Clone.

EDIT: And I know where freeman123 was going with the Link/YLink, Doc/Mario thing, but Link and Young Link are different characters.

 

[Vali]

Right, first off consider Sheik. If Sheik had been a special circumstance transformation for Zelda I can garuntee you not only that the number of people that actually used ZELDA would have increased tenfold, but also the number of Sheik users would have gone down. Zelda would not have been a basically dead character that hardly anyone used and there wouldn't be so many claims of broken Sheikness since Sheik exposure would have been limited. +1 Smash community, surely?

We currently know nothing about Zero Suit Samus. Most people are presuming that they'd want to play ZSS based on animated T&A with a hint of whip, but for all we know ZSS could have a pretty terrible moveset. Being a transformation for a short period of time whether it being to a much weaker or much stronger character will add a whole let of depth to Samus' game, and if ZSS was the latter (much stronger) but accessible through character selection it might effectively kill Samus in the same way Zelda was killed by Sheik. This is because if an almighty character is encompassed into Samus' moveset, Samus' regular moves will need to lack for compensation. Zelda might have actually been decent had it not been for Sheik. This way the transformation is different, unique and strategic and THAT adds far more variety to Brawl than having ZSS as a playable character from the selection screen would.

Adding onto that is my further rant about items. We don't know how often these final smash items will appear, and it's so d*mn ******** people already saying that they don't want to play with final smashes because they're items. Besides, no-one is being forced to use them if they don't want to and if you consider ZSS as an effect of Samus' final smash then by saying you don't want to use final smashes is optionally forgoing the use of ZSS. All I hope is that tournaments have FS on and those stupid enough to never try FS out for themselves due to their principles get creamed in tournaments by a character they've never played.

Just thinking about it (while SWF decided not to load attempting to post this) the post about ZSS on the board and the very nature of ZSS suggests to me that ZSS will be weaker than Samus (while probably faster to offset being completely gimped). Why on earth after all should Samus be more powerful without her power suit? Now if ZSS was weaker than Samus but only activated for a short period of time, it would make sense for Samus players to get good at juggling with ZSS and controlling the opponent to not only try and rack up damage but in order to offset the damage that you'd take while in the weaker form. After all, is there much sense in a final smash that not only does huge damage but then transforms you into a superior character?

Most of you also seem to be forgetting that Sakurai from the offset stated that ZSS would not be a pure character addition. In addition to people getting surprised by today's update of her not being a pure character addition, saying that Sakurai would have wasted time and resources by making a character that isn't fully playable is rediculous, seeming they have all the time and resources they need to make smash perfect. I'd prefer a smaller roster of characters with a huge depth of strategy to them (which ZSS will add to Samus) than a larger roster of characters, and it's this kind of inventive uniqueness that will really help set Brawl apart from Melee.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Each Final Smash has some sort of weakness to it. Examples would be Mario's requires him to be in the air, otherwise half of his final would be under everyone and Pikachu loses all of his jumps after his.

Zero Suit is Samus's weakness to her final. A blast that powerful would result into making her a weaker character. Zero was extremely weak in her own game, so why not keep her like that in Brawl?

 

[Red_Maniac]

Exactly. Maybe they didn't want Zero Suit Samus to be a real, REAL character, just a result of Samus' Final Smash.

...

But, then again, in the screenshots and trailers, she really does seem like an actual character...

I'm confused. I want December 3rd to come faster.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Well they do have a debug menu, they can whip out any character they want and put them into any form they want.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Vali, your comparison to sheik is incorrect to me. Zelda did not suck because of sheik, Zelda sucked because her moveset and stats aren't that great. If zero suit was in melee, Samus would still be a highly used character because samus is actually good. Also saying with Final smashes in tourneys people will fight a character they have never played... I assure you that on brawls release most of if not all of the smash world will play with every character in every mode. The problem with items and Final smashes is that it's random on who it's closest to and the magnitude. Let's say you are link and the match just starts and a Smash icon lands beside you, is that fair for your opponent? is that skill? no that is why it will not add depth to much of the smash world. The competitive scene will find it completely useless, now there are still the people that play with items and that is fine, but why stop the competitive community from having a character?