The Official Tornado (B-Down), Down-Air and Taunt Thread

[Marshallmallowlol]

Thank you so much for posting this I was looking for it everywhere.
Kinda

 

[Nicknyte]

I just spam the b. Spam the b, get the cheese.

 

[Rappster]

this seems to be the only non-dead place on the luigi boards.
so whats the best way to pressure a shield?
sh double air?
which 2?
i'm liking uair->nair

 

[Thoraxe]

luigi's shield pressure is kinda bad due to his floaty nature, i just try to WD space Ftilts, its much safer then approaching with sh aerials, but if you really want to aerial, Dair to cross over Bair works fine and spaces far enough for safety.

i wish the luigi threads weren't dead, he's such a fun character.

 

[Wenbobular]

Double aerials are pretty terrible framewise (and that applies to any combination, none of them are safe at all) but they'll get people who aren't used to it / get too surprised by the first hit to retaliate before your 2nd aerial

Wavedash Ftilt is alright if you predict their jump, but Ftilting into shields / CC is real bad

Wavedash jab drift through them -> turnaround grab is something Vist uses to some degree of success, but you can't really pressure shields with Luigi .... just grab them or dashdance / wavedash about

 

[standardtoaster]

I think I'll do luigi's hitboxes after I make a thread for Link's. :D

 

[standardtoaster]

Still working on luigi's hitboxes!

 

[standardtoaster]

Luigi's hitbox thread should be posted by tomorrow night or so.

 

[standardtoaster]

Hitbox thread is now complete: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=306546

 

[Roughsauce]

So I finally find out what the chances for misfire are. My friends kept saying its 1 in 6. Funny story, today I was playing, and I accidentally used Side-B, and it misfired, flinging me off the stage, (Yoshi's Story) and I tried to use Side-B to recover and it misfired AGAIN, and I killed my friend. As soon as he spawned, he used a side smash to send me flying, and when I tried to recover, I misfired a third time in a row. We stopped playing and just sat there for like 5 minutes trying to comprehend what just happened.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Phil! you finally made an account :D

 

[Vudujin]

I was experimenting with the cyclone, and I'm not sure if it was human inconsistency or a legit change in height, but I think if you do the move on the ground more than once then it goes higher as an aerial.

From what I saw, one spin with max input gets is a little higher than a midair jump, two was about a jump and a half, and three was just a little bit higher.

I really wanna know if this is something legit, so if someone has the technology to check this for me it would be much appreciated.

 

[Theftz22]

http://www.twitch.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=323224190

At 6:29:45, how the hell did the tornado rise that much?

 

[Vudujin]

Because it's powered by Yahoo!

 

[Max?]

Vudu, you're such a beast

 

[Blayd]

I found something weird about the tornado. On some stages you can do the rising tornado at the beginning of the match without doing it on the ground before.
There also seems to be an difference on which controller port you use.

Port 1: Fountain of Dreams and Pokemon Stadium.
Port 2-4: Pokemon Stadium and Dreamland

I only tested some neutral stages. Also I have to mention that I tested this on PAL Version, on NTSC Version this seems to be different (Port 1 should work on FoD but not on PS).

I'll look more into this tomorrow and maybe make a video.

 

[-ACE-]

Sup .

You need to be in the lower slot. (Axe discovered this part)
Lower port meaning lower port priority. 4>3>2>1

In addition, if you are fighting in teams against say a Peach and a Mario on Yoshi's Story, then you will not have it charged. But if you are fighting a Peach and a Bowser on YS, it will be charged.

Here's a list of all the data I've got so far.

Works with these characters on these stages...

Dr. Mario - FZ, Tem, PS, PF
Mario - PPC, FS, PF, MK2
Luigi (dittos) - PPC, YS, JJ, Tem, Ven, Onett, MC
Bowser - GB, YS, Cor, PS, BF, YI64, KJ64
Peach - YS, FoD, RC, Tem, GG, Brin, Onett, PS, MK1, PF, FD
Yoshi - YS, FoD, RC, Ven, Brin, Onett, FS, BB, MK2, BF, FD, KJ64
DK - FoD, FZ, RC, Tem, Onett, MC, PS, BF, FD, DL64
Captain Falcon - IM, YS, FZ, YI, PS, MK1, KJ64
Ganondorf - KJ, Cor, JJ, YI, Brin, MK1, PF, FD, YI64
Falco - YS, Cor, Ven, PF, BF, FD
Fox - YI, PS, MK1, BD, PF, FD
Ness - YS, FoD, RC, Tem, MC, FS, BB, PF, FD
Ice Climbers - IM, PPC, KJ, GB, Cor, Tem, YI, GG, MK1
Kirby - Cor, Tem, YI, PS, MK1, BD, BF, YI64
Samus - GB, FoD, RC, Tem, YI, Onett, MC, BB, MK2, DL64, YI64, KJ64
Zelda - PPC, KJ, GB, FoD, JJ, Ven, Brin, MK1, FS, BB, PF, MK2, KJ64
Sheik - (untested)*
Link - (untested)
Young Link - (untested)
Pichu - PPC, KJ, YS, JJ, Ven, PS, BD, MK2, YI64
Pikachu - (untested)
Jigglypuff - (untested)
Mewtwo - (untested)
Game and Watch - (untested)
Marth - IM, RC, Tem, GG, BB, PF, MK2, FD, DL64
Roy - IM, KJ, JJ, GG, Ven, MK1, MK2, YI64, KJ64

*Sheik starts it charged on FD, but Zelda does not

 

[BluEG]

Is that foreal? So ****ing strange from a programmer perspective-dunno why it would be so random haha

 

[DerfMidWest]

Because sakurai doesn't know how to make games.

 

[Vudujin]

Must. . . . . memorize. . . . . list. . . . . . . even. . . . . . jank stages

This is a really cool thread. I remember the cyclone being randomly charged sometimes, but I didn't know the randomness had consistency.

 

[mers]

Wait these pieces of information are CRAZY. Luigi is ****ing nuts.

 

[DerfMidWest]

He's quite silly.

 

[HaZarD2kv]

I've noticed that if you tap the b button while grounded, the second hitbox comes out earlier. If someone gets popped up from it, then you can tap and make them get hit by the second one if you chase them properly.

 

[GCSChris]

I've noticed that if you tap the b button while grounded, the second hitbox comes out earlier. If someone gets popped up from it, then you can tap and make them get hit by the second one if you chase them properly.

just anytime during the tornado, or like towards the end or something?

 

[HaZarD2kv]

Anytime really it seems. Practice it and try tapping B when near an opponent and see how it works for you.

 

[Griffard]

WOW This is actually great, I never realized this was possible just by pressing B again. Thanks much

 

[Yann J.Ridin]

Yo! On dolphin, I don't find that you can hit earlier. But you can change the position of the hitboxes.
It seems like you can hit earlier because the animation when luigi hold his arms is delayed.

Both of the hitboxes appear at frame 43.
Both of the tornados end at frame 79.

 

[GCSChris]

Yo! On dolphin, I don't find that you can hit earlier. But you can change the position of the hitboxes.
It seems like you can hit earlier because the animation when luigi hold his arms is delayed.

View attachment 7219

Both of the hitboxes appear at frame 43.
Both of the tornados end at frame 79.

k so at most times it would seem that it is not beneficial to do it as the first hitboxes cover more space but i guess in very specific situations it could be useful... maybe :/

 

[Yann J.Ridin]

Btw, I don't if it's a common knowledge for Luijizz.

So you can keep your aerial tornado's hitboxes when you land the ground.

You have to execute down-B 3 frame after jumped. Because it let the time to activate the hitbox in the air.

 

[HaZarD2kv]

Oh wow, I knew there was something about it, I guess I was wrong on how it worked. Thanks for clearing that up Yann J.Ridin. I was doing that all weekend at KIT.

 

[TobiasXK]

Btw, I don't if it's a common knowledge for Lui****.

So you can keep your aerial tornado's hitboxes when you land the ground.

View attachment 7285


You have to execute down-B 3 frame after jumped. Because it let the time to activate the hitbox in the air.

yagi tornadoes

 

[Zelbertoad]

Does anyone get a bit more height when holding the control stick up when doing the super tornado recovery?

For some reason it works for me but it might also just be that I'm pressing b faster when I hold the control stick up.

I know that you can control the direction the super tornado goes in when using it in the air to recover. Maybe that might have something to do with it.

 

[Verda Stelo]

Someone with Dolphin or crazy mash consistency should be able to clear this up but I don't think that's the case.

 

[Boondocker]

Is it a good idea to use down-b while you are above your opponent as a way to return to the ground or is down aerial usually a better option? How about wavedashing into it?

 

[Verda Stelo]

Tornado is a great way to get to the stage once your opponent has committed to trying to hit you out of the air/as soon as you land (the hitbox at the feet will surprise people) or if you're close enough to the ground that you can use its high speed to disengage your opponent. Trying to cover your fall prematurely or attacking with it unintelligently will get you punished. Dair is better for covering your fall versus someone who respects your aerial options, and if they bite on the dair there's a good chance they'll be too slow and you can hit them with a nair.

 

[-ACE-]

Is it a good idea to use down-b while you are above your opponent as a way to return to the ground or is down aerial usually a better option? How about wavedashing into it?

"Above your opponent" is ambiguous. The short answer is yes and no. When I'm far above the stage, and wishing to just make it to the ground level safely... I'm using directional DI to fake them out, while hunting for a dair, fair, or bair (nair is not disjointed enough from precisely underneath to fight other more disjointed hitboxes, and if they bait a nair, you've given them a much bigger opening than if they bait a dair out of you). If the person is accurate and you cannot fake them out, it'll be down to timing the dair so that they are answered with a fully "ripe" and well-spaced hitbox when they go to attack you (this is often the case with Luigi). You want to use your down-B when you can land most of it on the ground and get some mobility out of it so that it's safer in most cases; but with fastfallers, at low% it can be worth going for both hits of the down-B, although it is situational.

When you are above your opponent but very close in, and neither of you are really that far off the ground, it's great. It is a great mixup to add to double SH aerials and single sh aerials + waveland. Whenever you do a SH aerial as a bait, you have the option to down-B as you land instead of using another aerial or wavelanding. Even if it's shielded, dodged, or even expected, it's honestly not punished really often when you hit someone and then retreat with it. It's a great mixup for fastfallers, and usually a great way to get yourself out of trouble from the element of surprise which the down-B provides and it's constant small disjointed hitboxes that often help you win a crucial exchange instead of being hit or trading hits.

 

[Dapplegonger]

What happens if the cyclone clanks with with another attack and stops? Does it still charge up your cyclone for use as recovery, or does it not count. Also, I've seen professional Luigi's using a lot of cyclones during the neutral game to approach. How are they able to keep track of how many cyclones they use and be sure that they have one charged up when they get knocked off? Finally, at what percent should one stop using cyclones as approaches and make sure that they have one charged up for when they get knocked off?

 

[Stride]

What happens if the cyclone clanks with with another attack and stops? Does it still charge up your cyclone for use as recovery, or does it not count. Also, I've seen professional Luigi's using a lot of cyclones during the neutral game to approach. How are they able to keep track of how many cyclones they use and be sure that they have one charged up when they get knocked off? Finally, at what percent should one stop using cyclones as approaches and make sure that they have one charged up for when they get knocked off?

This thread contains useful information on the tornado: http://smashboards.com/threads/rising-cyclone-ptp-frame-data-guide.384946/

 

[Tacblack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjnOaw9WVo0

For those having trouble with the cyclone recovery, I used this mashing technique and I can get it pretty consistently. I just picked up Luigi, so I'm not amazing or anything; but this has done wonders for me. Try it and let me know what you think.

 

[P@RA]

I'm new to competitive smash, and I just started going to local tourneys. In NYC this weekend, I was playing friendly doubles and I got a spike kill with my taunt. It was funny watching everyone go "OOOHHHHH."

I'll probably never get that again but yeah Luigi is the freaking best. Luigi till I die