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The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

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papagenos

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(oops posted in the wrong forum my bad.)

"I was born a Sal believer and I'll die a Sal believer."

I hope someone gets my "kind of" quote at least...
 
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D

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I don't find that quite as sad, really. It's best to be somewhere in the middle, neutral, 'cause while there's still some merit to the leak, there's an equal number of reasons to be skeptical of it. Still, it's unfair to all the new leaks, which deserve to be approached with neutrality and an open mind, to cross-reference their leaks with the Gematsu Leak, don't you think? This isn't like some isolated occurrence, either. I've seen it done with pretty much every leak. I know you have, too. You're part of the E3 Rumors/Leaks thread, are you not?

Either way, at the end of the day, the game is going to release and people are going to remember the Gematsu Leak as the accurate/inaccurate leak.. for about the five or six seconds it takes to load up Smash 3DS.
I agree that neutrality is the best route in this. (Despite that, I'm willing to side in favor of the leak being true due to the information we have thus far, even though I personally would like the leak to be false)

As for the new leaks, I agree that they shouldn't be cross-referenced to the Sal Romano leaks, but at the same time, they should be critically evaluated like them (which is why I'm in support in favor of the Sal leaks; because of my evaluation), and more often than not, newer leaks leave no reason to take as seriously.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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I still stand by the fact that we don't know exactly what the leaker stated. The article on Gematsu was posted shortly after or even during E3, so I'm sure that, if hypothetically this leaker is real, Sal might have been just as confused as we were when only three of the six were revealed. Maybe that's why the Gematsu article is worded that way but his later response on SmashBoards is worded in a more forgiving way. It could also be that something's fishy. It's too hard to tell.
For E3, Sal posted the article right after Wii Fit Trainer was revealed, which was right after the Direct. There was a day or two for Nintendo to announce more stuff if they wanted to, but alas.

Unless Sal posts the email (doubtful), we'll never know what was said. I don't think it's all that important, partially because grammar sleuthing isn't a fruitful endeavor and because I feel we know enough from Sal's description:

"These six will be at E3." [Three appear]
"The remaining two are still coming eventually, along with these four characters and one category." [The "category" appears]

You can always email Sal if you're really curious, he might be busy right now with E3 coming up though.


2.when we got the information (right before E3 makes sense and so does right before the direct as this is when nintendo might have information floating around behind the scenes, also sharing more characters hours before the direct was DANGEROUS for a faker because it just added to the possibility of losing credibility by having one of the new characters instantly be deconfirmed...this was credibility that had stood the test of time for almost a full year)
Getting info ONLY preceding major Smash directs implies our leaker is either A) trying to be noticed and/or B) getting their info from sneak peeks at said directs. Seems like the safest bet for credibility rather than a big gamble.

3.how long information has lasted without being proven false (at this point a year)
To be fair, the leaker has only ("only", ha) 11 points to discredit and they all regard newcomers, the most exclusive content there is. Nothing on anything else and no details on said newcomers beyond their names and playability.

That's also working against them, since they theoretically could've said anything about anything else for easy cred.
 
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Fenrir VII

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So the only hard characters to guess would be the first 3 and "chorus kids" /marshal.

I still say the remaining 6-7 chars cast about the widest possible net of newcomers, and the reveal of any of them (save marshal) doesn't significantly affect the validity of the leak.

Now Ike being back slightly diminishes chrom's chances imo, but not by much

Now the deconfirmation of any of the remaining chars destroys this leak, imo. Basically, we wouldn't be able to trust any remaining characters on the list.

I still think that the leaker honestly knew about the first 3 chars and decided to f* with us for the rest, for whatever reason. That said, I fully expect palutena and possibly 2 or so of the others to show up at E3... Unless marshal is one of them, my opinion will stay the same.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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How are they an exception? If the Chorus Men show up as an assist trophy, or a stage hazard or anything, then it's still debunked. It's not like the leaker said "maybe Chorus Men, they're still working on making them work."
Because they would've still been on the original roster plans, but technical limitations would've made them hard to make work. It means he didn't lie about them, official plans change. It's akin to the Ice Climbers problem, one Sakurai said existed. He couldn't make a double character work(yet?), but a triple character would work easily? It'd be like what happened with Dixie Kong. She was planned to be in the game from the start, but technical limitations prevented her from not working as a tag team of sorts with Diddy. He said you could use a button to switch them, the only known information about how they'd play. But if somebody said she'd be in the game due to looking at the original plans, they weren't actually lying. They were given outdated information overall. The thing about Chorus Men unlike the other characters is they could have some problems being implemented, meaning if they're disconfirmed, we know it was already possible for them to not work well in the final product just like we know Ice Climbers could be removed for similar reasons.

We also are under the impression he could've misread Chorus Man as Chorus Men.(it's a reasonable theory, and if Marshall shows up as playable instead, it proves it was a simple misunderstanding).

Chorus Men being AT's just doesn't debunk the leak, but them being playable gives it far more credit since they're the hardest character to add.

  • Chorus Men are hard to add due to technical issues, in a similar way to Ice Climbers. If they are not in the final product, it's easy to assume that while planned, it just didn't work out. This doesn't make the leak fake because his information was completely real, plans just changed.
  • Chorus Men is possibly a misreading of Chorus Man(A.K.A. Marshall). If they're Assist Trophies and Marshall shows up, the leak was still real, he just misread it. It overall does make the leaker look bad, but if everything else shows up, he still had insider information. No real red flags at that point.
I'm looking at it from all angles, and the "outdated information" theory is beyond realistic when Roy's code name was "Fire Emblem Character" in the planned documents. Which is why the "Pokemon from X & Y" is barely a red flag at all. We know the "vague character idea" thing has been done before. It also proves outdated information is beyond likely if not what actually happened. It also is why Chorus Men overall being disconfirmed is not a very good hole in the leak. Pac-Man, Palutena, etc. being disconfirmed heavily affects the leak since anybody could come up with them as ideas. They're super easy guesses period. Them showing up doesn't give credit to the leak. If they aren't playable, that means Sal's leaker was lying about some information.(and since every character can be guessed anyway, since they existed well before SSB4's creation, so it's not like a Roy or Giga Bowser situation where they were created on the spot, that means it's possible he made up the entire leak or some of it). Likewise, getting the "when they showed up wrong" is likely outdated information too.

That said, I still think getting a lot wrong(even if outdated information) is a red flag to the leak overall. It's not a perfect leak due to this. We only have theories of why it was real despite this. So it's understandable some think it was fake due to that alone. It's not really bias specifically, it's a logical conclusion. Most leaks actually get the data exactly right, with little to no changes period. A lot was wrong from what was given. Any of the 3 logical conclusions(real, fake, unsure) make sense in the end.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Being ATs would debunk it in my mind, since I can't think of a character that went from planned playable to AT/Pokeball/backround dude (unless you count Dedede in Melee with the N64 Dream Land stage; I wouldn't).

Anywho, you can't give the leak a free pass if Character X doesn't show up just because you like your explanation as to why they're unplayable; others could be cut as well. If the leaker's running on old info, it's suspect.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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If the information is old, that doesn't make the Leaker a liar though. It just means the creators decided to change up their first plans. They never lied, things changed on them.

That's why small things don't prove the leak wrong that easily. The small change to the e3 stuff the first time doesn't do much to hurt the leak. Especially if the theory that he was fired turns out to be real.

I do think how he worded the leak(not Sal, the actual leaker) does matter to a degree. Not the Chorus Men/Chorus Man difference, but the actual things like "They'll show up at e3" and whether he said "barring changes" or not. If he didn't, then he was relying on information he saw, not taking into account the fact that developers often change plans, or he was lying.(I honestly feel that outdated information is actually what factually happened, but of course we can't prove that).
 

JaidynReiman

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If the information is old, that doesn't make the Leaker a liar though. It just means the creators decided to change up their first plans. They never lied, things changed on them.

That's why small things don't prove the leak wrong that easily. The small change to the e3 stuff the first time doesn't do much to hurt the leak. Especially if the theory that he was fired turns out to be real.

I do think how he worded the leak(not Sal, the actual leaker) does matter to a degree. Not the Chorus Men/Chorus Man difference, but the actual things like "They'll show up at e3" and whether he said "barring changes" or not. If he didn't, then he was relying on information he saw, not taking into account the fact that developers often change plans, or he was lying.(I honestly feel that outdated information is actually what factually happened, but of course we can't prove that).
It doesn't make the leaker a liar, but it makes the entire leak irrelevant. If the information is outdated, we can't rely on anything in it and ultimately makes it pointless.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It doesn't make the leaker a liar, but it makes the entire leak irrelevant. If the information is outdated, we can't rely on anything in it and ultimately makes it pointless.
No it doesn't. We already got outdated information before and none of the leak was disproven because they so far still showed up. Gating a date wrong, especially when he could've been fired, is a very weak red flag to this leak.

We need major disconfirmations besides Chorus Men at this point.
 

JaidynReiman

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No it doesn't. We already got outdated information before and none of the leak was disproven because they so far still showed up. Gating a date wrong, especially when he could've been fired, is a very weak red flag to this leak.

We need major disconfirmations besides Chorus Men at this point.
I thought it was obvious I meant only if we got a disconfirmation it renders the leak pointless?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I thought it was obvious I meant only if we got a disconfirmation it renders the leak pointless?
I guess it wasn't as obvious?

Eh, no worries. I still consider Chorus Men a weak point towards it, but anybody else, majorly weakens the leak.

I do think Chorus Men being Assist Trophies makes the leak less likely, but not to the degree that disconfirming anyone else would.
 

True Blue Warrior

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If the Chorus Men aren't playable, the leak is false. Even if they were planned, the leak would be completely pointless because it wouldn't have mattered to Smash speculation at all considering none of the other characters on the leak depends on, nor would increase the legitimacy of this leak as they all have reasons to be seen as plausible candidates. Outside of this leak, the Chorus Men has no reason to be seen as a plausible candidate.
 

RelaxAlax

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Let's say there was a leak this year for this E3. The leaker states the information was tipped to them through e-mail, this information was sent to the leaker weeks before E3 but brought forth once he saw it was confirmed. It has a list of 4 newcomers. At E3, 2 are shown while 2 are not. When the game releases, 1 character of the 2 is not shown and is indeed playable, while the other is not shown. It does not matter who these characters are or their descriptions, no matter how vague or straight forward.

I tried to make as good as an example as possible, but, anyways - Where am I going with this? Would you say this leak is dead or perfectly real?

My point is, if Sals predictions from the latest update of the Gematsu Leak is, hypothetically, partially true - where some of it is false but some of it is true - would alot of you still agree it is a true leak? I see alot of talk about "outdated information" to make up for questions about, say, Rosalina or the vague explanations for names (Animal Crossing Guy and Pokemon From X and Y). Where's the line drawn ? I feel many followers of the leak will try to prove it true even if we receive some counter information come E3.

How about this? If we don't get Shulk but we do get the Chorus Men, is it true? What about the other way around, where we don't get the Chorus Men and we do get Shulk? Further, what if we get Palutena but not Pacman? These questions shouldn't matter. If the character isn't there, it should be false. Or, if you're going with the outdated information notion, then it should/could be true.

Really, the only character here that is a long-shot is the Chorus Men, which I guess is the reasoning for people placing the importance of not being playable versus another character on Sals list.

Many have asked me if I believe in the leak. My answer? Um.... idk. It's not a religion. Or a person to 'believe' in. It could go either way really, but I'm leaning towards it being fabricated from the get-go. However, nothing pushes towards true and nothing pushes me towards false, and I don't need no Monkey Arguments or The Double Ended Sword Principle or the Little Caesars Hot n Ready Paradox to tell ya that. It's so far been very hard to disprove because of it's simplicity (Atleast the first part of it). Even if one side of the argument is disproved, being it true or false, there's still arguments in that that can be made to say it was a true leak. I have a feeling we may never know 100% ever.

I don't come here often because there's not much to go on anymore, it's a waiting game. I've seen though, after the topic was discussed to it's fullest, the thread dissolves into one side of the argument (it being true) becoming the leading voices. This then starts othering users who voice a different opinion in the thread, causing them to feel like outcasts and either joining the group of supporters or not coming back. This is not a diss or anything , so please don't take it as such, just a mere observation.

...THAT and i've been off my forum grind lately :p
Missed it.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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No, Rosaline's reason was: He didn't say those were all the newcomers.

Which is true, so Rosaline showing up isn't even close to a red flag.

I still view Chorus Men not being in as not mattering that much. The others, yes, huge deal. And due to Wii Fit Trainer(and extremely difficult to guess character), him having insider information period is likely true regardless. Some of the leak may be false, of course. May be. But his first 6 characters are likely true. However, only 4 of those are definitely true, so... we need to wait.
 

domokl

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No, Rosaline's reason was: He didn't say those were all the newcomers.

Which is true, so Rosaline showing up isn't even close to a red flag.

I still view Chorus Men not being in as not mattering that much. The others, yes, huge deal. And due to Wii Fit Trainer(and extremely difficult to guess character), him having insider information period is likely true regardless. Some of the leak may be false, of course. May be. But his first 6 characters are likely true. However, only 4 of those are definitely true, so... we need to wait.
he could have just said that because he was trying to fake it. people need to look at this both ways.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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he could have just said that because he was trying to fake it. people need to look at this both ways.
Or you know, he didn't reveal everyone?

Like he said, here's some of them?

Honestly, the Rosalina point is horrible and he didn't in any way say that she would be in or not. She was never mentioned, and he didn't made it clear those were the only newcomers. That's seriously grasping at straws to say he's lying when none of what he said(that can't be related to purely outdated information) was wrong.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Rosalina is noteworthy for two reasons:

- The leaker only announces newcomers, but apparently not ALL of the newcomers
- She, along with any other thing in the game that a leaker might know, was an excellent but missed opportunity that the leaker could've used to prove themselves

Just another reason to be skeptical of how much this person actually knows, and we have plenty of reasons.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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He did not say those were all the newcomers at all.

Meaning that mentioning her or not mentioning her is not really relevant since he wasn't actually wrong.

He has to actually be wrong and it can't be chalked up to outdated information(which is why Chorus Men being disconfirmed due to the similar issues with Ice Climbers does not hurt the leak at this point) period to actually debunk the leak.

Rosalina, not mentioning Greninja, these are really the weakest points against the leak as is. Nobody made up the idea of outdated information, we know it exists, it's real, and it happens. It is the most likely scenario for the Greninja situation, if not the only useful explanation. It doesn't hurt the leak due to that. As for him predicting an X/Y Pokemon as an actual guess, that itself is obviously possible. It was kind of easy to do that.

WFT and Chorus Men are the only unlikely guesses among the list of reveals. Rosalina not being mentioned can really only matter on pure hindsight overall. If we find out he was lying, then it explains why he didn't list her. If he wasn't lying, he said "Here's some newcomers" not listing her, and it makes just as much sense.
 

ChunkyBeef

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I don't know what Sal will do on Monday but he better check his email because I have the feel that his tipper would strike back...
If he's at E3, that might not be a possibility. I doubt anything's going to come up either way, but who knows?
 

N3ON

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If he's at E3, that might not be a possibility. I doubt anything's going to come up either way, but who knows?
Sal could totally update the website from E3, he's well aware of how much traffic that tipster has given him.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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$10 says Sal is constantly checking his email between now and the Direct. He wouldn't miss it.


He has to actually be wrong and it can't be chalked up to outdated information(which is why Chorus Men being disconfirmed due to the similar issues with Ice Climbers does not hurt the leak at this point) period to actually debunk the leak.
You're confusing evidence and proof. We're not trying to prove the leaker (the person) is telling the truth or not, we're trying to gauge how accurate the leak (the information) is based on the precision of multiple statements. They're selling, we're buying. The more detail and precision they provide, the more we accept it. Not telling us about Rosalina or anything other than newcomers, stuff they should know about, is suspicious. Not damning, just suspicious.

We know that this person has some degree of legitimacy or clairvoyance -- either one's fine, really -- because of Wii Fit Trainer. But they're clearly not using the most recent edition of Sakurai's Big Plan if they're mentioning placeholders and getting E3 schedules wrong (assuming they're not just lying or dumb). A lot can change between then and now, especially when "then" is ages ago. Old info is unreliable.

The whole mess comes down to this: do you believe a suspicious, unreliable person who hasn't been wrong so far? There's no inherently wrong answer and we won't care soon, but that's the gist of the situation.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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$You're confusing evidence and proof. We're not trying to prove the leaker (the person) is telling the truth or not, we're trying to gauge how accurate the leak (the information) is based on the precision of multiple statements. They're selling, we're buying. The more detail and precision they provide, the more we accept it. Not telling us about Rosalina or anything other than newcomers, stuff they should know about, is suspicious. Not damning, just suspicious.

We know that this person has some degree of legitimacy or clairvoyance -- either one's fine, really -- because of Wii Fit Trainer. But they're clearly not using the most recent edition of Sakurai's Big Plan if they're mentioning placeholders and getting E3 schedules wrong (assuming they're not just lying or dumb). A lot can change between then and now, especially when "then" is ages ago. Old info is unreliable.

The whole mess comes down to this: do you believe a suspicious, unreliable person who hasn't been wrong so far? There's no inherently wrong answer and we won't care soon, but that's the gist of the situation.
Except the outdated information is likely because he was likely fired. The mistake you're making here is that he is still at Nintendo and has all the information. It's really hard to believe he's still at Nintendo. By the fact he got so many dates wrong, him having the same insider information the whole time is way too ridiculous to believe.

How can you get all the schedules wrong if you aren't there anymore?

That's too big of a realistic possibility(as it often happens with leakers) to ignore. We have yet to get any more information. It's very possible the leaker has none to give. Why does he have to mention Rosalina? What would happen if she wasn't on the original sheet and was added in after he got the information? He didn't say it was all the newcomers too. That is not that suspicious. He covered that ground specifically. It's not very damning at all or even that suspicious to me.

It means very little, due to getting an extremely difficult character right, and another that many only thought was never going to happen(although what Sakurai said about Villager is that he wasn't ready to put him in Smash just yet, as others took priority. But it's doubtful most knew about that).

Honestly, I hope the leak is wrong, but the red flags are really really poor to say he is wrong. Slight schedule changes? The guy apparently couldn't be fired for leaking information? We have more than enough reason to believe it's real. The suspicions are ultimately fairly poor at this point. I do remain neutral, but the leak is still hard as hell to debunk with that information in mind period. Especially when we already have very legitimate reasons why the information came at a different date but wasn't overall wrong.

I think the guy is legit at this point, I just don't want to believe it, but it's really hard not to. I'm skeptical by default, but nothing is very convincing to disprove the leak at all.
 
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JaidynReiman

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Except the outdated information is likely because he was likely fired. The mistake you're making here is that he is still at Nintendo and has all the information. It's really hard to believe he's still at Nintendo. By the fact he got so many dates wrong, him having the same insider information the whole time is way too ridiculous to believe.

How can you get all the schedules wrong if you aren't there anymore?

That's too big of a realistic possibility(as it often happens with leakers) to ignore. We have yet to get any more information. It's very possible the leaker has none to give. Why does he have to mention Rosalina? What would happen if she wasn't on the original sheet and was added in after he got the information? He didn't say it was all the newcomers too. That is not that suspicious. He covered that ground specifically. It's not very damning at all or even that suspicious to me.

It means very little, due to getting an extremely difficult character right, and another that many only thought was never going to happen(although what Sakurai said about Villager is that he wasn't ready to put him in Smash just yet, as others took priority. But it's doubtful most knew about that).

Honestly, I hope the leak is wrong, but the red flags are really really poor to say he is wrong. Slight schedule changes? The guy apparently couldn't be fired for leaking information? We have more than enough reason to believe it's real. The suspicions are ultimately fairly poor at this point. I do remain neutral, but the leak is still hard as hell to debunk with that information in mind period. Especially when we already have very legitimate reasons why the information came at a different date but wasn't overall wrong.

I think the guy is legit at this point, I just don't want to believe it, but it's really hard not to. I'm skeptical by default, but nothing is very convincing to disprove the leak at all.
Its true, nothing is there to disprove the leak, but some of the inconsistencies throw a bunch of red flags. I'm just annoyed by the people who stand by the leak so much that they ignore all the problems with it, just as I am about the ones who outright say its incorrect. I'm leaning on it being false, but I am worried its correct at the same time.

EDIT: Granted, the roster isn't THAT bad, it could be worse, but it is a bit lacking IMO and some of the choices (Mii, Chorus Men) just seem a bit off.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Its true, nothing is there to disprove the leak, but some of the inconsistencies throw a bunch of red flags. I'm just annoyed by the people who stand by the leak so much that they ignore all the problems with it, just as I am about the ones who outright say its incorrect. I'm leaning on it being false, but I am worried its correct at the same time.

EDIT: Granted, the roster isn't THAT bad, it could be worse, but it is a bit lacking IMO and some of the choices (Mii, Chorus Men) just seem a bit off.
Dude, I've been trying to debunk this for ages, but I realized that the information trying to debunk it is far more poor than what proves it.

Those red flags are really really lame period.

  • Rosalina showing up: We already know he didn't say these were all the newcomers. Not an issue.
  • Pokemon from X and Y: His information was outdated, and we have direct proof that it happened before. Too impossible to say this is just a guess.
  • He guessed all of them: While everybody but Chorus Men and Wii Fit Trainer and semi-easy to guess to a degree, it's unlikely he got them all right. However, if one of the other "safe guesses" are wrong, the thing is killed period. Chorus Men is a partial backbone for many reasons.(namely that technical limitations could get them out in the end, thus, he wasn't lying, because this is against an outdated information issue)
  • He kept getting the dates wrong: Considering two sets of his information was likely outdated(Villager's name, Greninja's name), we have to assume he never saw the leak again. Alternatively, and beyond realistically(I think I even brought up the possibility), he was fired. This is the only one that might not be a lame point.
Overall, I hate the leak, but come on, he needs to get an actual character wrong period and one that still isn't easily chalked up to "outdated information" like Chorus Kids is(and again, the technical limitations are kind of notable). Also, Pac-Man wasn't that safe of a guess due to the fact Sakurai said a Bandai-Namco character wasn't guaranteed overall. People overcredit how much of a chance he has. Shulk isn't terribly safe. He has good chances. Chrom isn't super safe either, as he might not be unique enough. Mii is safe due to their overexposure, same with Palutena because of Sakurai's extreme liking of her. Did I miss anyone still not shown on the leak?
 

PlTe

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I don't see why people think Chorus Men is such an unworkable character. Rosalina and Luma are in the game, which means they must have the whole Ice Climbers thing working, plus Ice Climbers will always be in Smash. That doesn't rule out Chorus Men, or Marshall for that matter.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I don't see why people think Chorus Men is such an unworkable character. Rosalina and Luma are in the game, which means they must have the whole Ice Climbers thing working, plus Ice Climbers will always be in Smash. That doesn't rule out Chorus Men, or Marshall for that matter.
He did not announce Ice Climbers. There is no "must have". It's likely they're back, but until they show up, we can't really assume that. Also, Rosalina & Luma aren't good examples. Luma doesn't have much of a real A.I. It just jumps back to Rosalina at best and does your commands. But doesn't attack on its own. Nor does Pikmin. Nana tries to get back to you, but she can also clearly fight on her own. That might've been what he had trouble programming. We don't know the exact technical limitations. It could be the number of exact fighters on screen at once(less likely), it could be an A.I. issue. We just know he had trouble with them due to being hard to implement.

Chorus Men are likely to have the exact same issues, having 3 characters at once. This is why it's easy to believe they might not make it(and also why them leaving doesn't hurt the leak in particular. Since outdated information plays a role too, as does technical limitations. This could be another Dixie Kong scenario). It's also possible that if it's an A.I. issue, we could see Chorus Men but not Ice Climbers due to programming problems. Overall, we don't know enough to use a Rosalina comparison, since her current information doesn't show her to actually be more than similar(but not identical to) to the Ice Climbers.
 

Chauzu

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@ Verde Coeden Scalesworth Verde Coeden Scalesworth : Just wanted to let you know that as an outsider, you come of as being a pretty blind believer of this leak. No wrong believing things but accepting the weaker points of it would make your arguments stronger. Saying things like info is outdated because leaker got fired or whatnot... Come on. Just one example and a friendly heads-up.

Personally, my opinion is that Chorus Men will make or break the 2nd leak really. The 1st I consider to have been the truth at some point but we cant say if it is still 100% correct.
 
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ChunkyBeef

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Only way I can see Chorus Men working is if it's a solo Marshall and most of his Smash attacks and Specials involve summoning the other two Chorus Men to attack in tandem. Reduces clutter on the screen and prevents framerate issues.
 

Noiblade

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Only way I can see Chorus Men working is if it's a solo Marshall and most of his Smash attacks and Specials involve summoning the other two Chorus Men to attack in tandem. Reduces clutter on the screen and prevents framerate issues.
Either this or they are one unit/entity.
 

salaboB

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Only way I can see Chorus Men working is if it's a solo Marshall and most of his Smash attacks and Specials involve summoning the other two Chorus Men to attack in tandem. Reduces clutter on the screen and prevents framerate issues.
Somewhat sad that the Wii U could have framerate issues in a game like this from a couple extra models with a character.
 

ChunkyBeef

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Either this or they are one unit/entity.
Constantly having three entities on the screen is pretty much begging for framerate drops. Having just one entity on the screen at all times that summons the others to join into certain attacks is honestly the safest way to do it while still being true to the character.

Somewhat sad that the Wii U could have framerate issues in a game like this from a couple extra models with a character.
Well, you have to remember that they need to be able to make it so four characters can be on the screen, fighting, doing flashy stuff, while chaos is going on. If you can't have four fighters on the screen while several Pokemon are out and the background is moving without framerate drops, well, you either have to figure out how to make the game run more efficiently or you make some cuts. Specifically, this is where the 3DS could become an overall problem.

There's clearly a reason that Pokemon/Assist Trophies are running 30 FPS on 3DS.

Honestly, people, please don't be surprised if Ice Climbers disappear from the roster completely.
 
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Noiblade

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Somewhat sad that the Wii U could have framerate issues in a game like this from a couple extra models with a character.
I'm not an expert on specs, FPS and that kind of stuff, but I have a hard time believing that the Wii U would drop it's framerate and lag because of some extra models.
MK8 is in 720P running at 60 FPS with arguably more going on. I see problems on the 3DS but not on the Wii U.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Yeah, if anything is going to affect the roster because of system limitations it's the 3DS version, no doubt. Who knows, perhaps it's also partly the reason transformations are no longer present.

I don't expect ICs to be completely gone though, at worst it's going to be Popo running solo, with a Nana alternate costume, basically reducing them to Ice Climber.

As for Chorus Men, it's all about how they handle the concept. Who knows, maybe it's just Marshall now, we know for a fact that the leak doesn't have the names pinned down after all. Animal Crossing Guy anyone?
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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@ Verde Coeden Scalesworth Verde Coeden Scalesworth : Just wanted to let you know that as an outsider, you come of as being a pretty blind believer of this leak. No wrong believing things but accepting the weaker points of it would make your arguments stronger. Saying things like info is outdated because leaker got fired or whatnot... Come on. Just one example and a friendly heads-up.
It's called actually keeping in mind problems happen. And why all of the poor mishaps are severely weak evidence.

I actually think it's completely bull****, keep in mind. That doesn't mean bad reasons should be used to discredit it. I've realized most of those reasons are awful. We can't use Rosalina against him(he covered that, meaning it doesn't help discredit it in any way), we can't use the Pokemon from X and Y bit either. It's purely neutral on information. It could easily be a safe guess or a legitimately outdated information(and being that Roy was listed as Fire Emblem Character first, we know this is already an actual thing that gets listed). Animal Crossing Guy would also be a proper name for the character's codename till they went with Villager. Guy is not always "male only", so it covers having both variations in, which was probably planned anyway.

Wii Fit Trainer was the only extremely difficult guess(of those revealed) and heavily makes the leak look real. Villager/Animal Crossing Guy was pretty much easily going to be in 4 anyway, as those doing the research(but only under this condition, which does make it less of an easy guess too) would find out Sakurai outright said he wanted to put in other characters first, so the guess wasn't nearly as hard as WFT. Chorus Men are a severely difficult guess due to the fact we know multiple characters(like Ice Climbers) gave Sakurai trouble. Just not exactly why it was troublesome.
 

Noiblade

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So, I guess this is semi-related but... I thought some of you would find This interesting.

If Chrom is in the game his lines haven't been recorded yet.

I only bring this up, because Sean(Voice actor of Lucario) said he'll be voicing Lucari, so we can assume he's either recorded lines or has been contacted already.
Maybe this is just something he had to say because of NDAs? I'm not sure.
 

Reila

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So, I guess this is semi-related but... I thought some of you would find This interesting.

If Chrom is in the game his lines haven't been recorded yet.

I only bring this up, because Sean(Voice actor of Lucario) said he'll be voicing Lucari, so we can assume he's either recorded lines or has been contacted already.
Maybe this is just something he had to say because of NDAs? I'm not sure.
But didn't Lucario's VA confirm he was voicing the Pogeyman, regardless of NDA? :drshrug:

Anyway, as a supporter of Robin and/or Lucina, this is kind of exciting to me.
 
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