The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So, I guess this is semi-related but... I thought some of you would find This interesting.

If Chrom is in the game his lines haven't been recorded yet.

I only bring this up, because Sean(Voice actor of Lucario) said he'll be voicing Lucari, so we can assume he's either recorded lines or has been contacted already.
Maybe this is just something he had to say because of NDAs? I'm not sure.

Eh, I don't think this means much. Who says he'll be Chrom's voice actor, you know? It's possible.

I do think it's notable to an extent, but not terribly much. He has an ideal phrase to use if he is in the game and for the final smash would be. NDA's is possible too, of course.

 

[Hong]

So, I guess this is semi-related but... I thought some of you would find This interesting.

If Chrom is in the game his lines haven't been recorded yet.

I only bring this up, because Sean(Voice actor of Lucario) said he'll be voicing Lucari, so we can assume he's either recorded lines or has been contacted already.
Maybe this is just something he had to say because of NDAs? I'm not sure.

I think it would be unreasonable to expect an honest response.

If he had done lines, he would have to respond with "no" regardless. Responding along the lines of "I can't say" may as well a confession, since if he had nothing to hide, he would have no reason to conceal information. It is better to lie to someone's face than breech an NDA. Especially if you can pad it with a joke to change the subject.

Lucario thing is a different matter since the character is public knowledge, unless I am unaware of some VA credit slipup that had occurred prior.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Yeah, if anything is going to affect the roster because of system limitations it's the 3DS version, no doubt. Who knows, perhaps it's also partly the reason transformations are no longer present.

I don't expect ICs to be completely gone though, at worst it's going to be Popo running solo, with a Nana alternate costume, basically reducing them to Ice Climber.

As for Chorus Men, it's all about how they handle the concept. Who knows, maybe it's just Marshall now, we know for a fact that the leak doesn't have the names pinned down after all. Animal Crossing guy

What about Rosalina and Luma?

 

[Ryan.]

With E3 around the corner, I am predicting Palutena and Pac-Man will be shown, making this leak even more believable. If Robin is also shown though, I don't know...I never of course fully believed in this leak but it's really the only one I pay attention to.

 

[Shroob]

So, I guess this is semi-related but... I thought some of you would find This interesting.

If Chrom is in the game his lines haven't been recorded yet.

I only bring this up, because Sean(Voice actor of Lucario) said he'll be voicing Lucari, so we can assume he's either recorded lines or has been contacted already.
Maybe this is just something he had to say because of NDAs? I'm not sure.

It's funny because a friend of mine met him at Sakura-con and he said the same thing.

 

[CroonerMike]

What about Rosalina and Luma?

See everyone forgets about them. Got to look at the facts before they post.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

What about Rosalina and Luma?

Luma doesn't have an independant AI though, which Nana and potentially the Chorus Men concept could have, and that's what could cause problems. Transformations could cause data storing and load issues, there were already loading issues with PT in Brawl. Luma is basically a second character on screen, I don't think it walks or attacks unless told so.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Luma doesn't have an independant AI though, which Nana and potentially the Chorus Men concept could have, and that's what could cause problems. Transformations could cause data storing and load issues, there were already loading issues with PT in Brawl. Luma is basically a second character on screen, I don't think it walks or attacks unless told so.

And until Ice Climbers come back, we don't know how much A.I. Luma has. Looking at the facts, Rosalina & Luma show no signs of Luma having a unique A.I. like Nana does. It has never attacked without you commanding it to do so. It just tries to return to you at best.

Basically, it doesn't do anything for IC at this point.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

See everyone forgets about them. Got to look at the facts before they post.

I meant technical-wise. Right?

That post was just an attempt for me to get the 20,000 post.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I meant technical-wise. Right?

That post was just an attempt for me to get the 20,000 post.

Sakurai absolutely did not say what the technical limitations are. We don't know what it is.

But to our knowledge, Luma has a lesser A.I. than Nana so the comparison is lost when we take into account that it doesn't prove they're back since they're not identical.

Nobody is expecting IC to be cut, obviously. But we also don't know if they're there and if he fixed the technical limitations(of which he didn't clarify what they were). If it's an A.I. problem, it's not fixed(to our knowledge), since Luma isn't shown to have a good enough A.I. to attack. I doubt it's a model thing, unless having the same size of models(Popo and Nana are near identical and are full characters in all their data too. The Pikmin themselves have less data than a playable character, due to not being part of every attack and can't attack without a command. Luma may be similar to Pikmin, or may be similar to Nana. Nana herself has an intelligent A.I. by default. It was never simple) matter. If Nana's model space is more than the screen can handle, but smaller models(Pikmin as well as Luma) doesn't, then it's that type of limitation(and the one that is likely to be the issue for Chorus Men). I don't think the model thing is a likely problem, but the A.I. bit could be. I doubt that too if only cause he made it work before. I would love if, once we find out if they're in or not, he'd explain the situation properly.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Sakurai absolutely did not say what the technical limitations are. We don't know what it is.

But to our knowledge, Luma has a lesser A.I. than Nana so the comparison is lost when we take into account that it doesn't prove they're back since they're not identical.

Nobody is expecting IC to be cut, obviously. But we also don't know if they're there and if he fixed the technical limitations(of which he didn't clarify what they were). If it's an A.I. problem, it's not fixed(to our knowledge), since Luma isn't shown to have a good enough A.I. to attack. I doubt it's a model thing, unless having the same size of models(Popo and Nana are near identical and are full characters in all their data too. The Pikmin themselves have less data than a playable character, due to not being part of every attack and can't attack without a command. Luma may be similar to Pikmin, or may be similar to Nana. Nana herself has an intelligent A.I. by default. It was never simple) matter. If Nana's model space is more than the screen can handle, but smaller models(Pikmin as well as Luma) doesn't, then it's that type of limitation(and the one that is likely to be the issue for Chorus Men). I don't think the model thing is a likely problem, but the A.I. bit could be. I doubt that too if only cause he made it work before. I would love if, once we find out if they're in or not, he'd explain the situation properly.

I'd imagine the Luma to have the more complicated AI than Nana. Especially since it has to go away.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd imagine the Luma to have the more complicated AI than Nana. Especially since it has to go away.

...That's not A.I. That's basic coding of being destroyed.

We're talking about their actions and if they can do them on their own. Nana can, Luma may be able to. Pikmin do actually continue to attack when latched onto someone without you pressing a button, so they have more A.I. than Luma (from what we can tell).

Anyway, this is getting a bit off-topic. We don't know why IC are out, and if they are, Chorus Men could share the same fate if the reasons are the same. It's speculation, but it is a reason that Chorus Men aren't that likely of a choice to be in the game(but could've been planned easily, just not be able to be executed properly).

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I think he means 'go away' as 'separate from Rosalina'.

Regarding the Chorus Men, I'd imagine that we're getting either Marshal or a single Chorus Man, with - as someone whose name escapes me said - the rest appearing via attacks.

Hell, we might even get Marshal with CM as an alt costume.

 

[CosmicKirby]

I think it would be unreasonable to expect an honest response.

If he had done lines, he would have to respond with "no" regardless. Responding along the lines of "I can't say" may as well a confession, since if he had nothing to hide, he would have no reason to conceal information. It is better to lie to someone's face than breech an NDA. Especially if you can pad it with a joke to change the subject.

Lucario thing is a different matter since the character is public knowledge, unless I am unaware of some VA credit slipup that had occurred prior.

It really depends on the NDA that he's under. As a contracted resource, he'd certainly be under NDA, but it's not going to be so iron clad that he wouldn't be able to tell someone what he was doing on a certain day or at a certain time. So a statement that he was/wasn't contacted to do a voice at all is probably sound.

Imagine if he was in a police investigation, and his legitimate alibi was he was recording lines at the time. But he can only, legally, tell the police "I can't tell you." or lie to their faces. NDAs aren't supposed to be obstructions to justice.

That being said.
A.) I could see them just reusing assets from Awakening. He wouldn't be lying.
B.) Always the possibility they had someone else do Chrom's lines.

 

[TheBeatles]

Let's say there was a leak this year for this E3. The leaker states the information was tipped to them through e-mail, this information was sent to the leaker weeks before E3 but brought forth once he saw it was confirmed. It has a list of 4 newcomers. At E3, 2 are shown while 2 are not. When the game releases, 1 character of the 2 is not shown and is indeed playable, while the other is not shown. It does not matter who these characters are or their descriptions, no matter how vague or straight forward.

I tried to make as good as an example as possible, but, anyways - Where am I going with this? Would you say this leak is dead or perfectly real?

My point is, if Sals predictions from the latest update of the Gematsu Leak is, hypothetically, partially true - where some of it is false but some of it is true - would alot of you still agree it is a true leak? I see alot of talk about "outdated information" to make up for questions about, say, Rosalina or the vague explanations for names (Animal Crossing Guy and Pokemon From X and Y). Where's the line drawn ? I feel many followers of the leak will try to prove it true even if we receive some counter information come E3.

How about this? If we don't get Shulk but we do get the Chorus Men, is it true? What about the other way around, where we don't get the Chorus Men and we do get Shulk? Further, what if we get Palutena but not Pacman? These questions shouldn't matter. If the character isn't there, it should be false. Or, if you're going with the outdated information notion, then it should/could be true.

Really, the only character here that is a long-shot is the Chorus Men, which I guess is the reasoning for people placing the importance of not being playable versus another character on Sals list.

Many have asked me if I believe in the leak. My answer? Um.... idk. It's not a religion. Or a person to 'believe' in. It could go either way really, but I'm leaning towards it being fabricated from the get-go. However, nothing pushes towards true and nothing pushes me towards false, and I don't need no Monkey Arguments or The Double Ended Sword Principle or the Little Caesars Hot n Ready Paradox to tell ya that. It's so far been very hard to disprove because of it's simplicity (Atleast the first part of it). Even if one side of the argument is disproved, being it true or false, there's still arguments in that that can be made to say it was a true leak. I have a feeling we may never know 100% ever.

I don't come here often because there's not much to go on anymore, it's a waiting game. I've seen though, after the topic was discussed to it's fullest, the thread dissolves into one side of the argument (it being true) becoming the leading voices. This then starts othering users who voice a different opinion in the thread, causing them to feel like outcasts and either joining the group of supporters or not coming back. This is not a diss or anything , so please don't take it as such, just a mere observation.

...THAT and i've been off my forum grind lately
Missed it.

Any counters?

 

[Bauske]

Any counters?

Yes. I'll stop believing this leak once any character on it is deconfirmed. Simple as that. Hasn't happened so far though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: ROSALINA DOES NOT MATTER. Please, guys, stop bringing her up as a counter. The leaker never stated the full list of newcomers, so just because he stated some that would show up at E3, and Rosalina wasn't a part of that, does NOT invalidate this in any way. I don't know how people can't understand that.

The vague Pokemon reference I can understand as a point of skepticism, but Rosalina is completely irrelevant, yet people continue to bring it up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes. I'll stop believing this leak once any character on it is deconfirmed. Simple as that. Hasn't happened so far though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: ROSALINA DOES NOT MATTER. Please, guys, stop bringing her up as a counter. The leaker never stated the full list of newcomers, so just because he stated some that would show up at E3, and Rosalina wasn't a part of that, does NOT invalidate this in any way. I don't know how people can't understand that.

The vague Pokemon reference I can understand as a point of skepticism, but Rosalina is completely irrelevant, yet people continue to bring it up.

I can understand the point they're trying to bring up. She was likely planned from the start(unlike say, maybe some 3rd party characters like bringing back Snake, who could've required more "Sure, why not" like Sonic due to his immense popularity in general), so not listing her means he was taking a "safe route" by not listening every newcomer, thus, he doesn't have to list them, so if anyone new comes up, he can't actually be wrong. It's a cop out, basically.

I don't know if I explained it well enough. I don't agree and think she's irrelevant, but I do see how one can legitimately think something's wrong here. Getting a lot of things wrong to a degree does not really help prove the link that well. Albeit, it's still probably overall right, but most leaks don't get anything wrong at all too.

 

[Noiblade]

I think it would be unreasonable to expect an honest response.

If he had done lines, he would have to respond with "no" regardless. Responding along the lines of "I can't say" may as well a confession, since if he had nothing to hide, he would have no reason to conceal information. It is better to lie to someone's face than breech an NDA. Especially if you can pad it with a joke to change the subject.

Lucario thing is a different matter since the character is public knowledge, unless I am unaware of some VA credit slipup that had occurred prior.

Sean contacted his manager and asked if he could announce it.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: ROSALINA DOES NOT MATTER. Please, guys, stop bringing her up as a counter.

The vague Pokemon reference I can understand as a point of skepticism, but Rosalina is completely irrelevant, yet people continue to bring it up.

I can understand the point they're trying to bring up. She was likely planned from the start(unlike say, maybe some 3rd party characters like bringing back Snake, who could've required more "Sure, why not" like Sonic due to his immense popularity in general), so not listing her means he was taking a "safe route" by not listening every newcomer, thus, he doesn't have to list them, so if anyone new comes up, he can't actually be wrong. It's a cop out, basically.

I don't know if I explained it well enough.

For the record, I don't think anyone's talking about Rosalina as "hard" evidence. I'll go back to that other post I made a few days ago to hopefully explain why she's regularly brought up:

Rosalina is noteworthy for two reasons:

- The leaker only announces newcomers, but apparently not ALL of the newcomers

This isn't a "hey, that goes against what the leaker said!" bit. This is "oh sweet, even if this leak is true, there might be other presents under the tree!" It's not an argument to prove or disprove the leak, just a concrete reason to have some faith in getting even more characters. Noteworthy considering how many people absolutely hate the leak because playable Miis or whatever.

- She, along with any other thing in the game that a leaker might know, was an excellent but missed opportunity that the leaker could've used to prove themselves

Just another reason to be skeptical of how much this person actually knows, and we have plenty of reasons.

Note that I call her an opportunity. Not taking advantage of opportunities raises questions about how much they know, how they get their info, if they're a nutbag for only talking before major Directs, etc. At least it does if you're even remotely skeptical.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For the record, I don't think anyone's talking about Rosalina as "hard" evidence. I'll go back to that other post I made a few days ago to hopefully explain why she's regularly brought up:

To be fair, I got the impression you considered it to mean he was lying as a possibility due to Rosalina. Not that expecting more newcomers that's not on the leak list isn't reasonable.

Note that I call her an opportunity. Not taking advantage of opportunities raises questions about how much they know, how they get their info, if they're a nutbag for only talking before major Directs, etc. At least it does if you're even remotely skeptical.

Speaking of, was Little Mac even in a Major Direct? I know he had a video, but... wasn't that it? Sonic got the same thing, but he was "special" according to Sakurai. I expect every 3rd party to be in a Direct, whether returning or not(does help it's the pattern right now for 4).

 

[Pazzo.]

@ ChunkyBeef

Tomorrow's the day!

Seriously, E3 will make or break this leak.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

@ ChunkyBeef

Tomorrow's the day!

Seriously, E3 will make or break this leak.

Or we could get characters other than the Chorus Men that don't make or break the leak.

 

[Pazzo.]

Or we could get characters other than the Chorus Men that don't make or break the leak.

Sal chose some high-profile characters. I've calculated a 60% chance that E3 will shed some light on this leak.

 

[fill]

Sal chose some high-profile characters. I've calculated a 60% chance that E3 will shed some light on this leak.

i just had a flashblack of Fi from Skyward Sword

 

[Pazzo.]

i just had a flashblack of Fi from Skyward Sword

I'm actually her twin, Chi.

Seriously though, it was just a quick calculation.

 

[Robertman2]

So, I guess this is semi-related but... I thought some of you would find This interesting.

If Chrom is in the game his lines haven't been recorded yet.

I only bring this up, because Sean(Voice actor of Lucario) said he'll be voicing Lucari, so we can assume he's either recorded lines or has been contacted already.
Maybe this is just something he had to say because of NDAs? I'm not sure.

I asked him about that at Anime Boston this year!

 

[Bauske]

For the record, I don't think anyone's talking about Rosalina as "hard" evidence. I'll go back to that other post I made a few days ago to hopefully explain why she's regularly brought up:

This isn't a "hey, that goes against what the leaker said!" bit. This is "oh sweet, even if this leak is true, there might be other presents under the tree!" It's not an argument to prove or disprove the leak, just a concrete reason to have some faith in getting even more characters. Noteworthy considering how many people absolutely hate the leak because playable Miis or whatever.

Note that I call her an opportunity. Not taking advantage of opportunities raises questions about how much they know, how they get their info, if they're a nutbag for only talking before major Directs, etc. At least it does if you're even remotely skeptical.

Right. When people use Rosalina as a "yay there might be other potential newcomers" point, I don't mind. That's a fine mindset. It's when people use her as a means to debunk the leak that I get annoyed.

 

[ScottyWK]

If only one of Sal's newcomers is confirmed tomorrow, or a different newcomer is announced, and none of them are deconfirmed, I'm going to be bummed. I really want the leak to prove 99% accurate or be totally debunked tomorrow.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Right. When people use Rosalina as a "yay there might be other potential newcomers" point, I don't mind. That's a fine mindset. It's when people use her as a means to debunk the leak that I get annoyed.

Because it shouldn't be taken as a means to debunk the leak, right? Just one of many gaping holes in the leak, brother. Rationalize it all you want to - the guy had outdated information, the guy only posted what was going to be at E3 in the first leak - but the guy missed a chance to 100% validate his leak, just like he did with 'Pokemon from X and Y'. Most logical thinkers would say that's all evidence against the leak, but I guess that's something that should be said about the leak's supporters. Sorry, guys, but it's looking bleaker and bleaker for the leak by the day.

Likeliest Scenario: The guy probably knew Wii Fit Trainer was going to get in somehow, maybe a worker for E3 '13, and the rest of the leak is mostly tripe.

Tuesday's gonna be an interesting day.

 

[papagenos]

https://twitter.com/sogorukyo/status/476017276584333313

Apparently the Japanese voice actor for Shulk, Shintaro Asanuma, is celebrating the 4th anniversary of Xenoblade
He tweeted that he hopes he can tell us some good news soon.

 

[Phaazoid]

If only one of Sal's newcomers is confirmed tomorrow, or a different newcomer is announced, and none of them are deconfirmed, I'm going to be bummed. I really want the leak to prove 99% accurate or be totally debunked tomorrow.

I'd say this is pretty unlikely. There are a few characters with high chances in this leak, and some with less. So if one of the high chance ones is revealed, and nothing more, that doesn't say much either way for the leak.

The only real things that could really hit it either way are a straight deconfirmation, or something like showing off chorus men.

 

[Bauske]

Because it shouldn't be taken as a means to debunk the leak, right? Just one of many gaping holes in the leak, brother. Rationalize it all you want to - the guy had outdated information, the guy only posted what was going to be at E3 in the first leak - but the guy missed a chance to 100% validate his leak, just like he did with 'Pokemon from X and Y'. Most logical thinkers would say that's all evidence against the leak, but I guess that's something that should be said about the leak's supporters. Sorry, guys, but it's looking bleaker and bleaker for the leak by the day.

Likeliest Scenario: The guy probably knew Wii Fit Trainer was going to get in somehow, maybe a worker for E3 '13, and the rest of the leak is mostly tripe.

Tuesday's gonna be an interesting day.

It's not a gaping hole. It's irrelevant. I wish people would understand that.

Sorry, man, but you're wrong here. Just because the leaker didn't give us information you expected or think would help validate his claims doesn't mean it's any more false. Expectations do not equal evidence against the leak.

This is the point I'm trying to stress. You can call it a "hole" if you want, but it's not. It's a lack of information, sure if you wanna look at it like that, but the leaker never gave us a full list of newcomers. He gave us six characters to show up at E3. Rosalina wasn't scheduled for E3. End of discussion.

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright. So we prolly will not get the whole roster leaked, so let us play a game.

What character from the Sal leak (if revealed) will convince the detractors that there might be something to this rumor?

I think Chorus Men would be a big plus going toward the leak, followed by Shulk and perhaps Pac-Man (alot of nay-sayers toward the yellow pie chart on these forums).

 

[ChunkyBeef]

It's not a gaping hole. It's irrelevant. I wish people would understand that.

Sorry, man, but you're wrong here. Just because the leaker didn't give us information you expected or think would help validate his claims doesn't mean it's any more false. Expectations do not equal evidence against the leak.

This is the point I'm trying to stress. You can call it a "hole" if you want, but it's not. It's a lack of information, sure if you wanna look at it like that, but the leaker never gave us a full list of newcomers. He gave us six characters to show up at E3. Rosalina wasn't scheduled for E3. End of discussion.

Explain to me how the lack of a Rosalina/Greninja leak is irrelevant? How are you going to rationalize it away? That's two completely different ways to give the leak 100%, unquestionable credibility, but it never happens.

Look, I get that you guys love the Gematsu Leak to death, but you can't just ignore the evidence sitting in front of you because it's not convenient to your belief of the leak. It's like climate change: all the evidence is there, but the people that don't like the evidence choose to ignore it or rationalize it using false arguments.

It's not a lack of information. Half the characters in the first leak didn't show up at E3. There's absolutely no evidence in favor of the second leak. All the evidence points toward the leak being fake at worst, and extremely inaccurate at best.

What character from the Sal leak (if revealed) will convince the detractors that there might be something to this rumor?

As said a billion times, Chorus Men.

 

[Bauske]

For leak naysayers, I think the only thing that would convince them would be the Chorus Men.

For me, anything that gets revealed on the leak is just more evidence. But if any character gets deconfirmed, I'll have next to no faith in the leak any more.

 

[Phaazoid]

Alright. So we prolly will not get the whole roster leaked, so let us play a game.

What character from the Sal leak (if revealed) will convince the detractors that there might be something to this rumor?

I think Chorus Men would be a big plus going toward the leak, followed by Shulk and perhaps Pac-Man (alot of nay-sayers toward the yellow pie chart on these forums).

If they reveal chorus men I'd be sold on this leak. Honestly, none of the other characters would do it for me. If this leak is fake, I'd be willing to bet chorus men aren't playable.

 

[Bauske]

Explain to me how the lack of a Rosalina/Greninja leak is irrelevant? How are you going to rationalize it away? That's two completely different ways to give the leak 100%, unquestionable credibility, but it never happens.

Look, I get that you guys love the Gematsu Leak to death, but you can't just ignore the evidence sitting in front of you because it's not convenient to your belief of the leak. It's like climate change: all the evidence is there, but the people that don't like the evidence choose to ignore it or rationalize it using false arguments.

It's not a lack of information. Half the characters in the first leak didn't show up at E3. There's absolutely no evidence in favor of the second leak. All the evidence points toward the leak being fake at worst, and extremely inaccurate at best.

I have explained it several times. You're choosing not to listen. You're ignoring what I'm saying and bouncing back with the same things you've said again and again. If you were giving me any sort of credible evidence rather than speculation or unfulfilled desires, I'd change my mind. But you're not. You're saying you wanted him to reveal Rosalina beforehand so that we'd be able to believe the leak better, and since he didn't reveal her, you can't believe it.

That is not evidence against a leak. That's not evidence at all. It's thinking something should have happened, getting upset that it didn't, and then saying it's a contradiction against facts.
Here are the facts. I'll say it again: The leaker never gave us the full list of newcomers. The initial six were the ones listed to be revealed at E3. Rosalina was not revealed at E3. She was probably not planned for reveal at E3. The first leak was about E3. Rosalina was not at E3. I don't know how to put it any clearer.

I'll agree that if the leaker HAD stated Rosalina, people would have a lot more faith in the leak. But you can't take a hypothetical theory and use it as facts against the leak. It holds no grounds.

I'm going to turn this around onto you and ask you this: How does Rosalina not being mentioned prove anything against the leak? And I don't want speculation like "it would have helped" or "it would have made it more credible." I want facts as to why her not being included in the E3 leak has any sort of basis to call the leak false.

Look, I'm not a leak lover. I'm not a Sal blind-faith supporter. I'm viewing this leak as possible right now because the evidence and facts we have presently point in that direction. Just because something is vague doesn't mean it's wrong. If I were to tell you to go into a room, and in that room you'd find something that's shaped like a box, and when you go into the room you find a bunch of boxes, I'm not wrong, am I? You might even find some triangles, or keys, or chairs in that room, but the boxes are still there too. Could I have been more specific and said "it's an orange box" or "it's a very tiny box with a bow on it" to help you know exactly what was in the room? Sure. But I didn't. Regardless of that fact, it doesn't mean I was wrong. There was still a box in that room, and you can't get mad at me and say I'm lying or wrong because I didn't tell you the specific description of the box you wanted.

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

I have explained it several times. You're choosing not to listen. You're ignoring what I'm saying and bouncing back with the same things you've said again and again. If you were giving me any sort of credible evidence rather than speculation or unfulfilled desires, I'd change my mind. But you're not. You're saying you wanted him to reveal Rosalina beforehand so that we'd be able to believe the leak better, and since he didn't reveal her, you can't believe it.

That is not evidence against a leak. That's not evidence at all. It's thinking something should have happened, getting upset that it didn't, and then saying it's a contradiction against facts.
Here are the facts. I'll say it again: The leaker never gave us the full list of newcomers. The initial six were the ones listed to be revealed at E3. Rosalina was not revealed at E3. She was probably not planned for reveal at E3. The first leak was about E3. Rosalina was not at E3. I don't know how to put it any clearer.

I'll agree that if the leaker HAD stated Rosalina, people would have a lot more faith in the leak. But you can't take a hypothetical theory and use it as facts against the leak. It holds no grounds.

I'm going to turn this around onto you and ask you this: How does Rosalina not being mentioned prove anything against the leak? And I don't want speculation like "it would have helped" or "it would have made it more credible." I want facts as to why her not being included in the E3 leak has any sort of basis to call the leak false.

Look, I'm not a leak lover. I'm not a Sal blind-faith supporter. I'm viewing this leak as possible right now because the evidence and facts we have presently point in that direction. Just because something is vague doesn't mean it's wrong. If I were to tell you to go into a room, and in that room you'd find something that's shaped like a box, and when you go into the room you find a bunch of boxes, I'm not wrong, am I? Could I have been more specific and said "it's an orange box" or "it's a very tiny box with a bow on it" to help you know exactly what was in the room? Sure. But I didn't. Regardless of that fact, it doesn't mean I was wrong. There was still a box in that room, and you can't get mad at me and say I'm lying because I didn't tell you the specific description of the box you wanted.

Sh*t got real.

 

[Bauske]

Sh*t got real.

Haha sorry, I'm a super duper nice guy, but for some reason I'll admit I'm 100% done with people saying Rosalina is somehow a detracting factor against the leak.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

That is not evidence against a leak. That's not evidence at all. It's thinking something should have happened, getting upset that it didn't, and then saying it's a contradiction against facts.
Here are the facts. I'll say it again: The leaker never gave us the full list of newcomers. The initial six were the ones listed to be revealed at E3. Rosalina was not revealed at E3. She was probably not planned for reveal at E3. The first leak was about E3. Rosalina was not at E3. I don't know how to put it any clearer.

You're making excuses for the leaker. Stop it. This is the exact problem with the leak supporters that bugs me the most out of anything else leak related.

If he had access to the information on both leaks, it stands to reason he had information on Rosalina, too. He chose not to release it for some reason, probably because he never had the information to begin with, likely because he never saw it coming because the whole thing is tripe.

Why didn't he release the information if he had it? Who knows. Not like he didn't have plenty of time to let that information go. Instead, he stuck to releasing information days/hours before major events and it came back to bite him on the ass in this occasion.

I'll agree that if the leaker HAD stated Rosalina, people would have a lot more faith in the leak. But you can't take a hypothetical theory and use it as facts against the leak. It holds no grounds.

Yeah, but the problem is that he didn't, and you can't rationalize away that that's an enormous red flag against the leak. I can use it for facts against the leak because there's nothing about him missing Rosalina that SUPPORTS the leak. So, yeah, I can, and it holds all kinds of grounds. People choose to ignore it as evidence because, again, it's not convenient for Gematsu Leak supporters.

I'm going to turn this around onto you and ask you this: How does Rosalina not being mentioned prove anything against the leak? And I don't want speculation like "it would have helped" or "it would have made it more credible." I want facts as to why her not being included in the E3 leak has any sort of basis to call the leak false.

Who seriously saw Rosalina coming? No-one.

Who outside of Japan saw Greninja coming? No-one.

Who saw ZSS, Charizard and Sheik becoming separate characters? No-one

Both the initial confirms and the solo character information would have us sitting here, sipping coffee and discussing what kinds of characters Palutena, Chorus Men and Shulk would inevitably be. It didn't happen for whatever reason, and so here we are, arguing about it.

Look, I'm not a leak lover. I'm not a Sal blind-faith supporter. I'm viewing this leak as possible right now because the evidence and facts we have presently point in that direction.

Literally, right now? The ONLY evidence that supports the Gematsu Leak is Wii Fit Trainer. All I'm asking for is for lightning to strike twice. He missed several opportunities to do just that. SEVERAL COMPLETELY SEPARATE OPPORTUNITIES. And failed to do so. It's not like it's an isolated event. This is a consistent failure to convince us that the leak isn't a fluke.

Man, I understand that people want the leak to be real. People want EVERY leak to be real. People cling to this leak because it has the tiniest shred of evidence that there might be something to it.

Just because something is vague doesn't mean it's wrong.

Not necessarily, but you know what else predicts stuff in a vague fashion that could, in some extremely broad sense, be conceived as accurate? I'll give you a second to answer that.

...

That's right, psychics and horoscope readings.. and funny thing, there's no evidence that any of that is accurate, either.

Anyway, I'm not particularly upset or anything. If the leak's right, it's right. Cool. I was wrong, and I'm willing to admit that. If the leak's wrong, it's wrong. Cool, but people won't admit that it's wrong, and people are choosing to ignore the evidence that it just might be wrong. That's upsetting to me.

There's only so many times you can handwave inconvenient information and evidence, and rationalize it before you have to sit back and look at it all in one big picture and say 'Huh, there might be something here.'. I'm willing to admit that Wii Fit Trainer is the foundation of the leak. That's an impressive guess, or the guy clearly had some kind of information. There's something there. Unfortunately, you can't build a sound, reliable house with just the foundation, and the Gematsu Leak doesn't even have walls, let alone a roof.