The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[StripesOrBars]

Omg idk why people keep saying things like "why is Lucas>Ness"---I don't think each section in the tier list is arranged by best to worse---i think each character from a tier is about on par with the others (unless the creator of the list said otherwise)

And @ the Brawl/Melee discussion---It's not that Melee takes more skill (because it really doesn't anytime u kill at like 70% on average) it's that it had more glitches than Brawl does. Also, Melee's roster was much too extreme---characters like Falco were exponentially better than characters like Mewtwo. It also featured less diversity; a character was either strong and slow or weak and fast (excluding fox/falco) whereas in Brawl, there are weak characters who are good offstage; characters who have changing conditions (like Olimar and PkmnT) and characters who throw a buncha items (like Snake). Brawl is also much more polished so i consider it better for having less programming flaws and for the fighting to be smoother---and this is coming from a game programmer

You are wrong, Gheb_01. I will use my past argument to prove you wrong.

You said: Captain Falcon will ALWAYS lose against an equally skilled other character.

Okay. King Kirby 90(Kirby) vs Prosmashertim(Fox)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzGnFujxGec (fox wins)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ev6cxV2C6s&feature=related (Kirby wins)

Okay, let's check something.

Latest Melee Tier list:

Fox=#1

Kirby=#24

unless a stage with no hazards has somehow changed the fighting, Kirby, a bottom tier character, appears about equally skilled as Fox, a top tier character. How could 2 characters like that be equally skilled? Oh! I know! TIERS DON'T EXIST!

The 2 biggest ******* on a fourm full of *******.

Congratulations you morons!

 

[AnimeSnoopy]

The 2 biggest ******* on a fourm full of *******.

Congratulations you morons!

Why do people with join dates before '08 get to say things like this without critique. He essentially called everyone here a ******. To think, if he were an "08er" he'd get panned from here to the oven. Lol. Smashboards has a caste system.

 

[Fletch]

And who do you use?

Why does that matter? I quit Brawl a long time ago, but I used to play D3. I still play Melee, and mostly main Fox, but I don't see how that is relevant to anything I said.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Why do people with join dates before '08 get to say things like this without critique. He essentially called everyone here a ******. To think, if he were an "08er" he'd get panned from here to the oven. Lol. Smashboards has a caste system.

There's a good reason for that. On the internet, it's relatively safe to assume a random poster is an idiot unless they've previously proven otherwise.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There's a good reason for that. On the internet, it's 100% safe to assume a random poster is an idiot unless they've previously proven otherwise.

fixed

10chars

 

[Tenza]

You people are funny; I get called all sorts of ******* and people jump down my throat for simply stating my reasons why I think Brawl is a better game? Or was it because I said "I DONT KNOW if I'm right but I DONT THINK the characters are arranged within the tiers"?

The undeniable undebatable truth is that both games ARE equally as good---This is not my opinion; this is the opinion of the collective players from this forum. My proof? I've heard about an equal amount of ramble about why each game is better. So to all those who flamed me saying Melee is better---get over yourselves its not---It's just as good.

Now because I obviously wasn't thorough enough in my explanation as to why I PERSONALLY enjoy Brawl more than Melee, here goes round 2:

-I don't like playing a game where 33% of my deaths are by suicide because I was facing the wrong way---this is where auto edge grab comes into play...on BRAWL

-I don't like getting hit 3 times by a swordsman whose sword takes up a quarter of the stage, and losing a stock as a result---this is where surviving longer comes into play...on BRAWL

-I don't like being forced to pick from 4 characters because the other 22 stand no chance against them in the competitive world---this is where character diversity comes into play...on BRAWL

-Lastly (zomg the rant is almost over) I don't like a game where mastering a single advanced technique puts you lightyears ahead of someone who doesnt know it on the skill level totem pole---M2K vs random guy who doesnt play competitively and thus knows nothing about advanced techniques and the works, will lose EVERY time to M2K without question

Now ask me again why I prefer the more expansive and diverse Brawl over the broken (BUT FUN) game like Melee and I will gladly continue reading from the long long list---Technology only improves with time *******

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Comments in red

You people are funny; I get called all sorts of ******* and people jump down my throat for simply stating my reasons why I think Brawl is a better game? Or was it because I said "I DONT KNOW if I'm right but I DONT THINK the characters are arranged within the tiers"?

The undeniable undebatable truth is that both games ARE equally as good---This is not my opinion; this is the opinion of the collective players from this forum. My proof? I've heard about an equal amount of ramble about why each game is better. So to all those who flamed me saying Melee is better---get over yourselves its not---It's just as good.

Now because I obviously wasn't thorough enough in my explanation as to why I PERSONALLY enjoy Brawl more than Melee, here goes round 2:

-I don't like playing a game where 33% of my deaths are by suicide because I was facing the wrong way---this is where auto edge grab comes into play...on BRAWL
Play better and it won't happen

-I don't like getting hit 3 times by a swordsman whose sword takes up a quarter of the stage, and losing a stock as a result---this is where surviving longer comes into play...on BRAWL
"I don't like getting hit by a flying Phantom guy with a sword, who covers every stage within 2 seconds and Edgeguards me within fractions of a second...on BRAWL!!!

-I don't like being forced to pick from 4 characters because the other 22 stand no chance against them in the competitive world---this is where character diversity comes into play...on BRAWL
Too bad, that only ~5 characters have serious chances to win in brawl. That's 5 out of 35, compared to Melees 5 (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Peach) out of 26...

-Lastly (zomg the rant is almost over) I don't like a game where mastering a single advanced technique puts you lightyears ahead of someone who doesnt know it on the skill level totem pole---M2K vs random guy who doesnt play competitively and thus knows nothing about advanced techniques and the works, will lose EVERY time to M2K without question
M2K will beat almost everybody in Brawl too, with or without ATs

Now ask me again why I prefer the more expansive and diverse Brawl over the broken (BUT FUN) game like Melee and I will gladly continue reading from the long long list---Technology only improves with time *******

10chars

 

[Fletch]

Now because I obviously wasn't thorough enough in my explanation as to why I PERSONALLY enjoy Brawl more than Melee, here goes round 2:

-I don't like playing a game where 33% of my deaths are by suicide because I was facing the wrong way---this is where auto edge grab comes into play...on BRAWL

So you basically want everything done for you and the game to take no skill? That's a very scrubby attitude.

-I don't like being forced to pick from 4 characters because the other 22 stand no chance against them in the competitive world---this is where character diversity comes into play...on BRAWL

There was more variety in Melee than there has been in Brawl, check the tournament placings once in a while. There was definitely more than 4 viable characters, a Jigglypuff won the last major Melee tournament. All we see in Brawl is MK.

-Lastly (zomg the rant is almost over) I don't like a game where mastering a single advanced technique puts you lightyears ahead of someone who doesnt know it on the skill level totem pole---M2K vs random guy who doesnt play competitively and thus knows nothing about advanced techniques and the works, will lose EVERY time to M2K without question

This is a very scrubby attitude, and competitive gaming is not for you. "Mastering a single advanced technique" hardly puts you "light years" ahead of others, but creates a system where you are actually rewarded with advantages for getting better at a game. Also, once I "mastered" wavedashing in Melee, I actually played quite a bit worse for a long time. It's not like you just learn a technique and become the best player in the world, it's all about applying everything correctly.

Now ask me again why I prefer the more expansive and diverse Brawl over the broken (BUT FUN) game like Melee and I will gladly continue reading from the long long list---Technology only improves with time *******

Brawl is way more broken than Melee. What the hell is that last statement supposed to even mean? I'm bewildered, you're saying that because technology improves over time, Brawl is a better game? You should go use this logic on the Soul Calibur community, maybe they will make a comeback then.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

You people are funny; I get called all sorts of ******* and people jump down my throat for simply stating my reasons why I think Brawl is a better game? Or was it because I said "I DONT KNOW if I'm right but I DONT THINK the characters are arranged within the tiers"?

You don't think something that's an undeniable undebatable truth.

The undeniable undebatable truth is that both games ARE equally
as good---This is not my opinion; this is the opinion of the collective players from this forum. My proof? I've heard about an equal amount of ramble about why each game is better. So to all those who flamed me saying Melee is better---get over yourselves its not---It's just as good.

Which forum members are you citing? The ones without a shred of credibility? I think Brawl is more popular with them.

Now because I obviously wasn't thorough enough in my explanation as to why I PERSONALLY enjoy Brawl more than Melee, here goes round 2:

You seem to be switching between arguing that Melee is just as good and that you personally like Melee more. The former is outright wrong for the competitive community, the latter is fine, but, to be honest, this is a hot enough topic that opinions don't have a place in it.

-I don't like playing a game where 33% of my deaths are by suicide because I was facing the wrong way---this is where auto edge grab comes into play...on BRAWL

The solution: get better at the game. It's completely avoidable if you play right.

-I don't like getting hit 3 times by a swordsman whose sword takes up a quarter of the stage, and losing a stock as a result---this is where surviving longer comes into play...on BRAWL

Melee matches are fast, interesting, and intense. Brawl matches are much slower and much less interesting to watch. Would you argue that?

-I don't like being forced to pick from 4 characters because the other 22 stand no chance against them in the competitive world---this is where character diversity comes into play...on BRAWL

Both are imbalanced games. The thing is, the bad characters in Melee are bad but still have options. The bad characters in brawl are bad and don't have many tactics they can rely on.

-Lastly (zomg the rant is almost over) I don't like a game where mastering a single advanced technique puts you lightyears ahead of someone who doesnt know it on the skill level totem pole---M2K vs random guy who doesnt play competitively and thus knows nothing about advanced techniques and the works, will lose EVERY time to M2K without question

Are you suggesting that random noobs should be able to beat a player like M2K? Just. Stop. Talking.

Now ask me again why I prefer the more expansive and diverse Brawl over the broken (BUT FUN) game like Melee and I will gladly continue reading from the long long list---Technology only improves with time *******

The technology of Brawl is clearly better. No one is denying that Brawl looks prettier.
However, that doesn't make it a better game. I will defend to the death that Final Fantasy VI and VII are better than any of the following ones, even though, say, XII looks far better than either of those.

Same goes with LoZ. Would you care to tell me that Twilight Princess is better than Ocarina of Time simply because it's on the Wii and not the N64?

Edit: I think Tenza got owned.

 

[Tenza]

So you basically want everything done for you and the game to take no skill? That's a very scrubby attitude. Last time I checked, grabbing the edge of a stage that's a fraction of an inch away from me isn't really a skill...It's just obvious physics that should have been in Melee to begin with


There was more variety in Melee than there has been in Brawl, check the tournament placings once in a while. There was definitely more than 4 viable characters, a Jigglypuff won the last major Melee tournament. All we see in Brawl is MK. I love MK to death and he is my main and my favorite character but I honestly think he is getting a lot more credit than he deserves...I'm reaaallly not hearing enough Snake or D3 praise and it's starting to scare me. As for Jigglypuff winning that tournament, it was without a doubt because of the broken move she possesses; there is no reasonable argument to support giving any character a near one hit KO in a fighting game. Period.



This is a very scrubby attitude, and competitive gaming is not for you. "Mastering a single advanced technique" hardly puts you "light years" ahead of others, but creates a system where you are actually rewarded with advantages for getting better at a game. Also, once I "mastered" wavedashing in Melee, I actually played quite a bit worse for a long time. It's not like you just learn a technique and become the best player in the world, it's all about applying everything correctly. First off who are you to tell me what is and isnt for me? Once I learned wavedashing I didn't lose against my equally skilled friends until they learned it too. I don't even need to bother to mention the outcome of me+wavedashing vs. my casual Melee playing friends



Brawl is way more broken than Melee. What the hell is that last statement supposed to even mean? I'm bewildered, you're saying that because technology improves over time, Brawl is a better game? You should go use this logic on the Soul Calibur community, maybe they will make a comeback then.

I'm saying that Nintendo wasn't about to spend 7 years and millions of dollars on a sequel to one of their best selling titles if it wasn't gonna be as good or better, bro. As hardware improves, software does as well---Tell me Wii is not more capable hardware than Gamecube and you don't deserve to have a computer; let alone the internet or an account on these forums. Good day.

 

[mobilisq]

look at me im arguing about a video game

 

[PkTrainerCris]

guys, remember that the threads name is "The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0 ", there are another melee versus brawl threads, both games are fun, and which is better is very subjective ( depends of your likes) so everybodys choice can be diferent... tolerance please

 

[Delta_BP26]

I like Brawl more. I like everything about it more.

But I'm not a fool. A former competitive SSBM player, I have to say that when it comes to the competitive aspect of the two games, Melee is better in this department. Sure, in Brawl a nub will definitely lose to a pro, as in Brawl, but when it's a 1 on 1 in Brawl there is a larger chance that a slightly less skilled player will win a fight than in Melee. Melee's AT's usually applied to the whole cast, whereas in Brawl it's character specific AT's, meaning that not the whole cast stands a chance.

Let's face it; unless it's two really good players, we always skip to the good parts in the YouTube videos. In Melee videos, you normally find yourself watching the whole thing.

Yeah, I like Brawl a lot more. But there's no denying that Melee's competitive scene is superior. And that's what competitive players care about.

 

[strangely mundane]

^^^^ Then what about Brawl do you like more. I see many people state that melee is much more competitive but they like brawl better, now I understand that the competitiveness doesn't equal a better game but this a competitive site and you would think that the more competitive game would win. ( please don't think I flaming you I'm just curious)

 

[LinkSceptile333]

teir lists don exist

I expected Wolf to be higher....

 

[StripesOrBars]

Brawl is not a better game.

It was made for funsies.

Sakurai said it himself.

As a party game, Brawl is definitely better.

As a competitive fighter, Melee rules over Brawl, no question. Tripping in Brawl proves this.

 

[Barge]

Listen, it doesn't matter, just keep your opinions to yourself, we dont need stupid arguments over which is better. Actually Brawl vs Melee is a matter of opinion. I myself find brawl funner, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna say melee sucks and its stupid and ugly.

 

[Tenza]

@ Delta---I USED to watch entire Melee videos and skip to the good parts in Brawl ones---but after a while you get sick of seeing Marth Fox Shiek and Falco.....In all honesty I don't see what you people mean when you say that the weaker chars in Melee stood more of a chance as opposed to Brawl...I find it to be the exact opposite actually; I destroyed a lot of people with chars like C falcon before this silly tier list came out. In Melee I loved Mewtwo to death and I was indeed good at the game (knew L cancelling, Wavedashing, the works) but no matter whose Falco I fought, I lost every time. Brawl is not the one with the unusable chars---Melee is. I recall tons of people saying there might not even be a tier list because of how balanced the characters were.

both games are fun, and which is better is very subjective ( depends of your likes) so everybodys choice can be diferent... tolerance please

I'm ashamed that I wasn't able to summarize my point so short and sweet like this guy...
THIS GAME'S WINNER IS-----PkTrainerCris *winning pose*

As for this whole East side West side Melee vs Brawl dispute; I'm done with it unless someone re-involves me in it

 

[Barge]

I'm ashamed that I wasn't able to summarize my point so short and sweet like this guy...
THIS GAME'S WINNER IS-----PkTrainerCris *winning pose*

As for this whole East side West side Melee vs Brawl dispute; I'm done with it unless someone re-involves me in it

Huh, wish I saw that post, would've just quoted it

 

[mobilisq]

look at me im arguing about a video game

 

[wWw Dazwa]

yes yes, we see you.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Okay, that's enough. Let's get back on topic. (Yes, I realize I'm guilty of participating in this too)

So, how do you guys feel about where Ike is?

 

[Barge]

Okay, that's enough. Let's get back on topic. (Yes, I realize I'm guilty of participating in this too)

So, how do you guys feel about where Ike is?

Neutral, he deserves that spot, he can Ko at 50% D:

 

[kr3wman]

Brawl is not a better game.

It was made for funsies.

Sakurai said it himself.

As a party game, Brawl is definitely better.

As a competitive fighter, Melee rules over Brawl, no question. Tripping in Brawl proves this.

I read that as :

Look at me, my opinion about everything is obviously right. I mean, is there anything to argue?

It's right, so it can't be wrong...

...

Right?

This thread just went down into moronic posts the last pages.

People, please stop this.

 

[AnimeSnoopy]

^^^^ Then what about Brawl do you like more. I see many people state that melee is much more competitive but they like brawl better, now I understand that the competitiveness doesn't equal a better game but this a competitive site and you would think that the more competitive game would win. ( please don't think I flaming you I'm just curious)

Stage variety, Sound/music, Graphics, Character roster, SS-Emissary,

Items play in brawl > Items play in meele.

Yes, I do play to win, if you're not going to play to win, then you totally missed the objective of the match to begin with.

buuut, on the other-hand I don't care if I lose either. I just like to see how far I can get against any kind of obstacle, objective, etc. The greater the odds are against me, the more exciting the match is anyway. (Yes folks, you heard it here, I like to hear my opponent shout: "Landmaassteer!") Thats why I main Sonic in items-off brawl. It's why I like items play as well as items-off play.

Brawl is not a better game.

It was made for funsies.

Sakurai said it himself.

As a party game, Brawl is definitely better.

As a competitive fighter, Melee rules over Brawl, no question. Tripping in Brawl proves this.

The effects of tripping are completely exaggerated on these forums. I've never even lost a stock due to tripping. Half of my matches I go without even tripping at all. LOL.

 

[Barge]

The effects of tripping are completely exaggerated on these forums. I've never even lost a stock due to tripping. Half of my matches I go without even tripping at all. LOL.

._. I've lost from tripping a few times


Lol -running towards ganon charging up warlock punch to grab before it releases-

-trip-

"HYYAHHHHHHH"

Game!

 

[ROOOOY!]

Neutral, he deserves that spot, he can Ko at 50% D:

...if your shield button is broken..
I can't ever remember dying against an Ike at <100%, and I second Jiggz for Christ's sake.
I sorta second Ike too and I NEVER kill at 50%.
Most of his moves are easily telegraphed and so are avoidable and therefore punishable.
He deserves lower IMO. Ike gets ***** offstage by several characters.
AETHER'S SUPER ARMOUR FRAMES WILL NOT SAVE YOU IF YOU'RE TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE STAGE TO USE AETHER TO RECOVER.
I understand that, most Ike mains don't, which makes me laugh more so when I **** someone with a spring.

 

[Barge]

...if your shield button is broken..
I can't ever remember dying against an Ike at <100%, and I second Jiggz for Christ's sake.
I sorta second Ike too and I NEVER kill at 50%.
Most of his moves are easily telegraphed and so are avoidable and therefore punishable.
He deserves lower IMO. Ike gets ***** offstage by several characters.
AETHER'S SUPER ARMOUR FRAMES WILL NOT SAVE YOU IF YOU'RE TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE STAGE TO USE AETHER TO RECOVER.
I understand that, most Ike mains don't, which makes me laugh more so when I **** someone with a spring.

Well, its not like you just run into the fsmash, Mind games.

 

[Egeu]

I seen this cartoon on newgrounds which mentioned Tiers for queers campain xD. Is tiers worth having?

 

[Corigames]

Why do people with join dates before '08 get to say things like this without critique. He essentially called everyone here a ******. To think, if he were an "08er" he'd get panned from here to the oven. Lol. Smashboards has a caste system.

Go click on my name. It's over here to the right. Now go to my "statistics" or whatever. Find the tab for infractions. You will notice that, in the past 3-4 months, that I've gotten numerous infractions. Yet, I have an 06 join date.

Don't hate on the mods you 08 scum :3

 

[Morrigan]

Actually, only you can see your own infractions.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

geez coreygames, did you join in 08 or something

 

[Corigames]

geez coreygames, did you join in 08 or something

...
I hate you >_>

Also, I want to continue this conversation just to cut it off right at the end. 08ers with an exaggerated Brawl opinion just seem to piss me off. Anyway:

The undeniable undebatable truth is that both games ARE equally as good---This is not my opinion; this is the opinion of the collective players from this forum. My proof? I've heard about an equal amount of ramble about why each game is better.

However, how many of the die-hard fans of Brawl actually played Melee competitively before reaching the decision that they don't like Melee. In contrast, how many Melee vets played Brawl before coming to their conclusion? I doubt even 1/4th of the 08ers that peruse the boards even went to a Melee tournament while most people that played Melee went to a Brawl tournament or two before giving up on it. It's not a fair opinion to say that both opinions are equal. They aren't. One has more experience behind it while the other one is biased because that's all they know.

So.... no.

Now because I obviously wasn't thorough enough in my explanation as to why I PERSONALLY enjoy Brawl more than Melee, here goes round 2:

I don't care about your personality right now. I want to know what the good, true facts are as to why we should play Brawl over Melee in tournaments aside from aesthetics.

-I don't like playing a game where 33% of my deaths are by suicide because I was facing the wrong way---this is where auto edge grab comes into play...on BRAWL

So Melee is worse because you kill yourself more from not paying attention, etc.? That's not a good opinion at all. I'd say that 33% of time I don't get 1st in Mario Kart 64 is from my own **** fault, but do I say it's a worse game than MK Wii? Oh hell no.

-I don't like getting hit 3 times by a swordsman whose sword takes up a quarter of the stage, and losing a stock as a result---this is where surviving longer comes into play...on BRAWL

Well... I don't like getting hit 3 times by a man called Snake whos tilts take up a quarter of the stage, and losing a stock as a result.

-I don't like being forced to pick from 4 characters because the other 22 stand no chance against them in the competitive world---this is where character diversity comes into play...on BRAWL

I don't like to pick between 2 characters like in Brawl.

-Lastly (zomg the rant is almost over) I don't like a game where mastering a single advanced technique puts you lightyears ahead of someone who doesnt know it on the skill level totem pole---M2K vs random guy who doesnt play competitively and thus knows nothing about advanced techniques and the works, will lose EVERY time to M2K without question

So, what you are saying is, that you would WANT to lose to someone who is significantly worse than you just because the game should let them have a chance because winners don't deserve it? Also doing so while money is on the line?

Now ask me again why I prefer the more expansive and diverse Brawl over the broken (BUT FUN) game like Melee and I will gladly continue reading from the long long list---Technology only improves with time *******

I'll continue to tear you down :D

However, I would like it more if we just stopped this whole Brawl/Melee debate and do it some other place some other time. As it turns out, this conversation has been outlawed on the boards.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

~snip!~

...

So totally worth it.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Cry more. All of you.

 

[Morrigan]

^Didn't you main Wario? Or am I crazy?

 

[Corigames]

56k mindgames me with constant signature and avatar changes.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Peach)

Peach never really stood a chance of winning. Just 4 characters, Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik really stood chances, of which only Fox/Falco/Sheik actually did win.

 

[Corigames]

AZ, you forgot to say Jigglypuff because Man0 won once. Everyone says that in these arguments >_>

 

[Fletch]

Tenza, if you're going to quote and respond to me, please do it outside the quote boxes so I can quote you back when I respond. That being said, I'll answer what I can.

@ Delta---I USED to watch entire Melee videos and skip to the good parts in Brawl ones---but after a while you get sick of seeing Marth Fox Shiek and Falco.....

Then I get sick of seeing MK/Snake. There was still a lot more variety in Melee than Brawl has ever shown, and it had less characters.

In all honesty I don't see what you people mean when you say that the weaker chars in Melee stood more of a chance as opposed to Brawl...I find it to be the exact opposite actually; I destroyed a lot of people with chars like C falcon before this silly tier list came out.

If you beat anyone with Falcon, they either sucked or were playing other awful characters. What does the tier list coming out have to do with how you play either? Now that there is a tier list out, you're suddenly not good with Falcon? That doesn't make sense.

In Melee I loved Mewtwo to death and I was indeed good at the game (knew L cancelling, Wavedashing, the works) but no matter whose Falco I fought, I lost every time. Brawl is not the one with the unusable chars---Melee is. I recall tons of people saying there might not even be a tier list because of how balanced the characters were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuuQCqvp_0s

I'm sure I don't need to tell you who Forward is, but he is one of the best Falcos in the country. Video speaks for itself here.

Peach never really stood a chance of winning. Just 4 characters, Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik really stood chances, of which only Fox/Falco/Sheik actually did win.

Mango at Pound 3 and M2K with Marth all over the place. And I would include Falcon on that list (along with Peach), and probably ICs and Samus as well. I think this statement is a bit ridiculous; if you say there are only 4 viable characters in Melee, then I would say there is only 1-2 in Brawl.