TheWii
Smash Journeyman
I think Brawl is the better game but not much, I loved Melee because of how much skill it takes.
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The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0
- Thread starter M3D
- Start date
- Status
OlimarFan
Smash Ace
Relax, dude. There's no need to get so angry with him.
Kennahh
Smash Apprentice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ur7hl4EYY
Play that and read this thread.
Play that and read this thread.
Tenza
Smash Cadet
Omg idk why people keep saying things like "why is Lucas>Ness"---I don't think each section in the tier list is arranged by best to worse---i think each character from a tier is about on par with the others (unless the creator of the list said otherwise)
And @ the Brawl/Melee discussion---It's not that Melee takes more skill (because it really doesn't anytime u kill at like 70% on average) it's that it had more glitches than Brawl does. Also, Melee's roster was much too extreme---characters like Falco were exponentially better than characters like Mewtwo. It also featured less diversity; a character was either strong and slow or weak and fast (excluding fox/falco) whereas in Brawl, there are weak characters who are good offstage; characters who have changing conditions (like Olimar and PkmnT) and characters who throw a buncha items (like Snake). Brawl is also much more polished so i consider it better for having less programming flaws and for the fighting to be smoother---and this is coming from a game programmer
And @ the Brawl/Melee discussion---It's not that Melee takes more skill (because it really doesn't anytime u kill at like 70% on average) it's that it had more glitches than Brawl does. Also, Melee's roster was much too extreme---characters like Falco were exponentially better than characters like Mewtwo. It also featured less diversity; a character was either strong and slow or weak and fast (excluding fox/falco) whereas in Brawl, there are weak characters who are good offstage; characters who have changing conditions (like Olimar and PkmnT) and characters who throw a buncha items (like Snake). Brawl is also much more polished so i consider it better for having less programming flaws and for the fighting to be smoother---and this is coming from a game programmer
OlimarFan
Smash Ace
lolol...modern music was never my cup of tea.
Umby
Smash Master
Exploiting said glitches to perform common tasks efficiently in higher leveled Melee play takes more skill than spamming Meta Knight moves or walking + tilting with Snake in Brawl. That's pretty much a fact. Half the time when people use the "glitches" argument, it's often limited to Wavedashing anyway. Anything like the Ice Climber's freeze glitch is banned, so doesn't matter, and Mewtwo's glitch on Battlefield isn't overly difficult to avoid, nor is it easy to abuse.
Yes, characters like Falco were much better than someone like Mewtwo, yet the fact remains that Dedede is way much better than Captain Falcon in Brawl.
I like how this thread has gone from "I hate this tier list because my character is so low" to "Melee vs Brawl."
Psychoace
Smash Champion
Just because you have taken a few high school programing classes does not mean your a programmer.
LuLLo
Smash Ace
There are so many discussions out here that I just don't know to which I shall contribute...
Ah well, here it goes..
Character balancing: Sakurai and his team didn't balance the game so that new characters get all the fame in the tier list...(take a look at Sonic)
Tier list itself: pretty accurate if you'd ask me, but then again, who am I to say the list is accurate?
AT's = Glitches: people (Tenza) who say that AT's are in fact glitches, are pretty...well...narrowminded imo...
Melee vs Brawl: Melee --> Brawl, big time, in many aspects....such as AT's, more techniality, speed, smoother gameplay, C.Falcon...Then again, Brawl also has some nice things, like graphics, new characters, a higher fun-factor (considering we've played Melee for over 7 years..)
People who don't know what the hell they're talking about, keep it going, you're making these boards fun to return to!!
@Kennahh: I actually played it while reading it, and it feels really....well....let's just say it fits with the thread
Ah well, here it goes..
Character balancing: Sakurai and his team didn't balance the game so that new characters get all the fame in the tier list...(take a look at Sonic)
Tier list itself: pretty accurate if you'd ask me, but then again, who am I to say the list is accurate?
AT's = Glitches: people (Tenza) who say that AT's are in fact glitches, are pretty...well...narrowminded imo...
Melee vs Brawl: Melee --> Brawl, big time, in many aspects....such as AT's, more techniality, speed, smoother gameplay, C.Falcon...Then again, Brawl also has some nice things, like graphics, new characters, a higher fun-factor (considering we've played Melee for over 7 years..)
People who don't know what the hell they're talking about, keep it going, you're making these boards fun to return to!!
@Kennahh: I actually played it while reading it, and it feels really....well....let's just say it fits with the thread
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Thanks for this ignorant failure of a post Tenza! THANK YOU!
A1lion835
Smash Champion
GameandWatch=#4? Huh.
nakedsnake
Smash Journeyman
I don't get that either back in the day he was one of the worse melee characters
in my opinion now he is like the best kind of weird
The good thing about this tier list is that they finally got rid of the Bottom Tier. Looks like the old bottom tiers have strated movin' on tournaments. Great.
Anyways, tier lists are mainly for tourney results, so if yoshi or samus are low tier it's mainly becouse ppl don't play as them at tourneys as much a falcos or snakes.
And why are ppl saying stuff about melee vs brawl? I thought that was completely old and that it's just matter of likes :S
Anyways, tier lists are mainly for tourney results, so if yoshi or samus are low tier it's mainly becouse ppl don't play as them at tourneys as much a falcos or snakes.
And why are ppl saying stuff about melee vs brawl? I thought that was completely old and that it's just matter of likes :S
Golem the Stern Father
Smash Champion
For the most part, it is. One must consider all match-ups, tournament results, ect. to create a tier list and of coarse, skill level differences, so you may be able to beat your friends G&W with Link. You probably know that at an even skill level, the higher tier will almost always win.
I think you mean AT's.Tenza said:
Same applies in Brawl.Tenza said:
Meta Knight
>_>
If you notice a Melee vs. Brawl debate, the best thing to do is not to contribute. Those threads have only created tension with other users and more hatred towards 08'ers. This is tier discussion, how did we get off track?Tenza said:
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Ok. One thing. Tier lists are not god's word. I think the back room tried to explain with Melee's 6 tier list (the april fool's one). Just because Kirby was #24 and Fox was #1 in melee's 8th tier list didn't mean that King Kirby 90 wasn't of about equal status with Prosmasher tim. Just because Game and Watch is #4 and Captain Falcon is the worst in the game, doesn't mean that Game and Watch should win vs an equally skilled Falcon player. In my opinion, tiers don't exist, as I just explained.
[sarcasm]What an earthshattering argument!!! I never heard anything so intelligent!!![/sarcasm]
Fletch
Smash Master
I'm not angry, I actually found his post quite funny.
They are ordered within the tiers, you apparently haven't seen a tier list before.
Name said glitches. Brawl has way more glitches overall, yet the Brawl side loves to throw this argument out all the time. This has been said and refuted over and over again.
I would take Mewtwo versus Fox in Melee against Falcon versus MK in Brawl any day of the week. There appears to be more tournament viable characters in Melee, and that game has less characters, so I have no idea where you are coming up with this statement. Melee also has a much more balanced top tier (4 characters versus 1/2 in Brawl).
Again, the game has tons of little glitches all over the place (just none that are really useful), and I really don't see how the game is smoother (maybe because it is simply slower?).
Zinc Elemental
Smash Journeyman
It's kind of sad how it's not that much worse. >_<
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Tell me, Gheb_01, what's your argument?
Tiers exist, it's a fact. It's like saying "the air don't exist". It does exist and there's nothing you can do about it. If tiers don't exist, every character would be equally good. That means every character has equally balanced movesets and has just as many strenghts as weaknesses.
Captain Falcon will always loose to more characters than Metaknight, Snake, the Spacies or King Dedede, if they're played by equally good players.
Tiers exist. Period
Captain Falcon will always loose to more characters than Metaknight, Snake, the Spacies or King Dedede, if they're played by equally good players.
Tiers exist. Period
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
I'm with you on that one. They exist minimally. As for your question; Gheb_01 will now flame you with tourneyf@gism. He will make a list of points heard many times before and you will not care. Win as whomever you want to win as in Brawl.
A1lion835
Smash Champion
You are wrong, Gheb_01. I will use my past argument to prove you wrong.
You said: Captain Falcon will ALWAYS lose against an equally skilled other character.
Okay. King Kirby 90(Kirby) vs Prosmashertim(Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzGnFujxGec (fox wins)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ev6cxV2C6s&feature=related (Kirby wins)
Okay, let's check something.
Latest Melee Tier list:
Fox=#1
Kirby=#24
unless a stage with no hazards has somehow changed the fighting, Kirby, a bottom tier character, appears about equally skilled as Fox, a top tier character. How could 2 characters like that be equally skilled? Oh! I know! TIERS DON'T EXIST!
You said: Captain Falcon will ALWAYS lose against an equally skilled other character.
Okay. King Kirby 90(Kirby) vs Prosmashertim(Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzGnFujxGec (fox wins)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ev6cxV2C6s&feature=related (Kirby wins)
Okay, let's check something.
Latest Melee Tier list:
Fox=#1
Kirby=#24
unless a stage with no hazards has somehow changed the fighting, Kirby, a bottom tier character, appears about equally skilled as Fox, a top tier character. How could 2 characters like that be equally skilled? Oh! I know! TIERS DON'T EXIST!
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
EQUALLY SKILLED PLAYER!
Obviously the kirby player was more skilled by a wide margin, but not by enough to make up for Fox's advantages totally.
Also you gotta remember, fox is the hardest char in the game to play properly. At low level of play he's worse then bowser.
......did you notice something? Fox commited like 2 suicides in that match.
And yes, tiers exist.
Oh yeah, I guess you forgot to read the OP
Tier placement doesn't necessarily reflect your ability to beat your friends with a specific character. You might beat your friend's Metaknight with Sonic, but that doesn't mean Sonic is top tier. It means you win that matchup against your friend. Tiers are not absolute measurements of match outcomes.
In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use.
Fletch
Smash Master
Wow, I saw your first post, but I seriously thought you were kidding... I can't believe there are still people around that argue that tiers do not exist. Unless every character in a game is identical, tiers exist. For example, say I take 2 identical characters in a game, but then take one and increase its speed, power, recovery, etc. to be better in every aspect than the other character. Do tiers not exist then? This is essentially what is happening on a much broader scale in fighting games, and because there are character differences there are going to be some better and worse characters. If you still don't believe that, go win Brawl tournaments with Falcon.
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Um... He azendashed once, when he was already behind 1 stock. Unless you're talking about that awesome edge guarding by Kirby as a suicide, there was 1, which didn't really matter in the long run.
Yo A1lion835, Go play Super Street Fighter Turbo.
Pick Any character except Akuma. Then have your opponent pick Akuma.
Try to win. Just try.
Just that experiment shows Akuma is way better than everyone else, thus tiers exist.
It's not that hard to comprehend.
Pick Any character except Akuma. Then have your opponent pick Akuma.
Try to win. Just try.
Just that experiment shows Akuma is way better than everyone else, thus tiers exist.
It's not that hard to comprehend.
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Yay! Something I've never done and probably never will do has "proven" that tiers exist in some game I've never heard of! Woohoo!
Tiers exist.
You never heard of Super Turbo?
Never heard of Akuma?
I'll tell you what, you better leave before you humiliate yourself further.
Fletch
Smash Master
Exactly why you shouldn't be posting on this topic.
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Whatever. You guys are so blind there's no point in trying to convince you anyway.
I told you you were gonna humiliate yourself further.
cjrocker
Smash Ace
I want to thank you for making my day full of lulz.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Man, this stuff is funnier than Comedy Central *Eats popcorn*
After watching these, then watching a brawl video. I can definately see why melee forgoers claim melee is faster. It really is in terms of high level play. These vids are pretty enjoyable to watch. Makes me wonder why they slowed brawl down so much.
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
That is one of the reasons people are upset with brawl...
Fletch
Smash Master
Yes, it's just too bad that we use evidence and logic behind our reasoning whereas you simply make baseless claims. Again, if tiers don't exist, please play Falcon and go win a major tournament.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
And who do you use?
- Status