The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Tien2500]

If this is meant to stop debates over tiers then once again I say we need the reasoning behind it. I don't doubt that the players in the back room are far better than I am at Smash but that doesn't mean I should blindly accept what they say. I feel like the Smash Back Room is a parent who's just saying this is the way it is "because I said so thats why." (I'm not saying that there isn't a good reason... Just that without knowing it I can't interpret the tier list intelligently.) grr.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought it was inevitable. =/

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

lol roughly half the time i cant recognize internet sarcasm either

 

[deftdefier]

@StripesOrBars: ...WTF... DONT FLAME. You're saying u lol at them, well i bet all the people who read your post will lol at you. Ok you said you're not flaming but its at LEAST similar to a flaming post.

I LOLed for the record. And correction *just because you say in your post that you're not flaming doesn't mean you're not flaming... calling someone a ****** and a moron with failing points = flame to me. Just my opinion I guess.

 

[Ravin]

...
XD

First tier list.

Its funny.

Nothing else can be said.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

agreed ok ill stop posting unecessarily now lol. goodnight

(@deftdefier)

 

[PrinceMarthX]

I think SBR is underestimating Sonic a bit too much. His placement catches me by surprise the most. Sonic should be closer to Mario.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Wooooow, if this tier list wasn't a v1.0, then I would definitely criticize its flaws.

 

[KillaFrmNY]

Ok so lets seee my mains are link and hes bottom, not much of a surprise there. Mario and hes low which really shocked me since his cape owns so i really thought hed be middle. And Dk which hes high so yay!

 

[Puddin]

Why is Lucario high? Does nobody find this a bit surprising?

 

[Fire!]

Mario?... Low? ;_;

Oh well, time to step up my game then.

 

[MarKO X]

If this is meant to stop debates over tiers then once again I say we need the reasoning behind it. I don't doubt that the players in the back room are far better than I am at Smash but that doesn't mean I should blindly accept what they say. I feel like the Smash Back Room is a parent who's just saying this is the way it is "because I said so thats why." (I'm not saying that there isn't a good reason... Just that without knowing it I can't interpret the tier list intelligently.) grr.

I kinda agree with this... maybe some reasoning behind why the characters are placed where they are placed would be great... of course, it would lead to more debating, but doesn't it always?

 

[smashbot226]

I think SBR is underestimating Sonic a bit too much. His placement catches me by surprise the most. Sonic should be closer to Mario.

He's close enough if you ask me.

Be thankful he's better than Jiggs.

And Link made me LULZ.

 

[Puddin]

Blind Internet Hate Fights, or "debates" as you like to call them are inevitable, especially with something like this when someones favorite characters respect and tier position is on the line.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think answers will be forthcoming, guys. Just have a little patience. They were good on giving their reasoning with the Brawl ruleset (regardless of how anybody felt about it), so I don't think they'll skimp out on the tier list.

>___>

And LOL@Doodah.

Smooth Criminal

 

[MRTW113]

Kirby=High? Yay!
Zelda=Middle? *shrugs*
Sonic=Low?! NOOOOO!

 

[Exia 00]

Nooo! falcon is ............. the worst >.> I knew he was bad a while ago but w/e hes still fun as hell xD

 

[~Infinity~]

ROB?? He should be on high Tier...

 

[Exia 00]

ROB?? He should be on high Tier...

No way man, R.O.B is definetly in the right place. He is not the best but he is certainly one of the best. I actually predicted he would be higher but thats a thing of the past

 

[darkNES386]

Actually no. Sonic is LOW tier. There is no bottom tier yet.

If anyone is going to become bottom tier, it will be Falcon.

Oh God there's so many n00bs at GameFAQs getting all pissy. It's good to know the Smash Back Room decided to release the tier list early. However, I have to ask about some things. Toon Link is mostly Middle because there's not a lot of tourney data with him, right? The only real problems I see with him is that he has a hard time finishing sometimes and his spacing isn't as good as Marth's.

What exactly is the formula for calculating the tier list anyway?

Once again, thanks SBR for releasing the tier list early.

There is no magic formula. It's a lot of tournament results mixed in with what can be observed as the current full potential of each character.

It's a shame that TL is lower than I expected, but its not surprising. TL players are rare to come across,so you don't really see them placing at tournaments.

Which is why he's so low.

Honestly though, basically Toon Link just needs more tourney points right? All I see he's missing is easy finishers. He's a jack-of-all-trades. I don't understand why he isn't seeing more tourney use. He's a G&W counter, isn't he? Use Toon Link more people. He's so cool.

I'm glad to see Pika is high up. :D

One character match up doesn't decide tier list placing. Yoshi could be the bomb against MK and he's still going to be low tier right now.

To be fair, these aren't reflective of any of those levels. But to be honest-- did you really think they would be?

This list isn't even close to final. It's pretty much a projection at this point. I take it with a grain of salt. So should you.

And please don't try and defend GameFAQs.

It's always going to be a projection. Until the day comes when everyone decides they've attained all the possible knowledge of Brawl and there's nothing more to be gained... it's going to keep "projecting" the current situation.

I gotta hand it to ya, Falcon/Ganon/Yoshi/Samus/Sonic all made it out of bottom tier.

They're all low-tier.

I was kinda nervous too =) (for Sonic)

Another point I'd like to add is that the problem is that a lot of spam on the GameFAQs forums isn't off-topic, so that can't particularly Mod it. The problem is that there are way too many idiots. >_>

Yes I agree, there needs to be explanations, or a formula of how the weighted everything. A few positions don't make sense on the tier list to me. I'm guessing tourney results played a large part, which is why KD3 is so high and Toon Link is only Middle. However, that makes Luigi an oddity.

Just.... accept it.

Why would you use a character because they're now low tier?

Maybe because it means that you can challenge yourself to discover possible ways to win when you're not expected to.

XD

Also, how do I become a "Smash Debater?"

After your thread in the tactical discussion... "I beat my friends Snake with Sheik"... just don't.

Is the tournaments results everything they take into account when they make a tier list?

Well, if the list is taking into account tournament rules then tournaments are most likely going to play a huge factor.

Incredibly accurate tier list. The SBR is full of beasts this time around.

I agree.

I'm very surprise at how Meta knight isn't in a tier of his own.

I guess that's the SBR way of saying "The match up isn't that hopeless you ******** noobs, we aren't banning him"

^___^

ROFL

popsofctown you are my hero for noticing that.

I am glad they didn't jump to spread out either into a bottom/TOP tier.

Think of it this way:

Who is manly enough to take the bottom spot on the tier list and still be manly?

Captain Falcon!

Link being so low surprised me a bit. I mean, I knew he was pretty bad, but that bad?

This was the only thing that surprised me too. Link really surprised me.

I think SBR is underestimating Sonic a bit too much. His placement catches me by surprise the most. Sonic should be closer to Mario.

Until Sonic's place higher more frequently in tournaments and do well... it's going to stay that way. Especially if someone isn't using Sonic the entire time.


I'd like to take this time to say that everyone who isn't happy with the list should pretend they never saw it and go about their business trying to improve their character's game. Otherwise you're just wasting time complaining about something that no one is going to care about right now.

 

[Morrigan]

lol @ yoshi mains

 

[Mic_128]

Just thought I'd mention, if you think a character's placing is incorrect and that ______ is really awesome and should be higher, I heavily suggest using that character and kicking some tourney ***. Film some killer matches and post them on SWF so we can check em out.

And the reason Ivy, Squirt and Charizard are all grouped together is that you cannot play one without playing the other. Brawl isn't 1 stock matches, and if it was, they'd probably be seperate. But the fact that when you die you change, coupled with the 'stamina' effect that weakens pokemon, the logical conclusion was to group them together.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Toon link maybe pretty low, but I defintly see him going up not down. Bowser might be going down because some of the characters under him has alot of potential and wiggle room for stratigies. Great excellent list.

Remember this frigging list isnt finalized
>.>

 

[ph00tbag]

In my whole hearted opinion....You guys hit the nail on the head. But...I have some remarks.

1. Captain falcon should be AT LEAST switched with Link. I'm not being biased because i'm trying to main him, I just think that Falcon is the better character.

Link has projectiles, and a long range disjointed aerial (therefore potentially mobile) hitbox. He also has more overall power, and better ability to control the stage. Falcon has... decent aerials?

2. I don't think Falco should be that high. Granted, he is good, but I don't think he's THAT good.

High priority projectiles, a chain grab on most of the cast that can be reversed, and can lead into an easy spike KO on many, powerful smashes, decent combo potential... He's got a lot going for him. IMO, his placement is perfect.

3. I really think you guys underrated Lucas and Ganondorf. Lucas has amazing potential and hopefully he'll rise up to at least high mid/low high. In regards to Ganon, again same thing, but he probably won't move up as far.

Lucas is almost entirely invalidated by Marth. He has many strengths, but I think he won't get much higher than he is because of that grab release.

Ganon has almost every weakness that Falcon has, plus he's slow, and he has one of the worst recoveries in the game. He totally deserves his spot.

 

[Kel]

Okay guys, chill out. The biggest issue with Brawl's tier list being so disputed is the fact that Brawl's meta game is no where near developed enough to create an accurate tier list. The community has yet to see any Nation-wide tournaments even.

Our regions are each developing attributes and play styles. In the Midwest, Anther and Overswarm have been doing very well with Pikachu and ROB respectively. The East has Lucario, Diddy, and Dedede continuously placing. Texas, Florida, California all by themselves have their own developing meta games as well. The problem is that we have yet to combine our efforts.

This time next year the tier list will have many fewer discrepancies and the general population will understand why characters are placed where they are better.

If you have any REAL arguments as to why a character deserves to be in a different spot, please post it in a coherent matter. Not just "my brother beats me with X character so he's amazing", I'm talking about hard evidence of characters' placements in tournaments consistently or any other attributes that the Broom may overlooked (chain grabs, ATS, that sort of thing).

Enjoy the tier list, and remember that the game is still evolving very rapidly.

 

[litlwing]

WhAT!?! GanON bottmo tire!? blasphemy, he can stomp people with his beard, he deserves top

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Let's see...

Olimar, Ness, Yoshi, and Sonic should be moved up.
MK should have a tier of his own.
Shiek, Ike, Wario, and and Bowser should move down.
Link and Ganon should switch.

My thoughts exactly.

They said it would take about a year for a tier list, didn't they? Why is there one now? At the very least, I would have thought they'd have waited until they had done all the characters for the weekly backroom discussion.

It's not a bad list, but there's some things that seem very off to me. I don't blame any of the backroom people. I blame how early this list is.

 

[PK~Master]

WTF is this?

ok first of all, this is one person's/ group's opinion. Who the f*ck asked the rest of us?
this list is completely bullsh*t. im not just saying that cuz Im biased.
this should be based not on the moves and abilities of the characters. It all depends on how the player uses them. Mind games and such. And there are an infinite amount of variables. This shouldnt be decided by a limited group of people in a tournament. I can sure destroy any Meta Knight players at the same skill level as I with Ness using my own style of playing. This is just a scam to promote your favorite characters, and if it isn't, and if it is legit, it should still not be considered official. How dare you call this official? Who says it's official? The best brawl player in the world? No. The fact is, tier lists are not real. They don't mean anything, and they are just a way to put down other people who use characters which are supposedly lower tier. You play as well as you can, and you can still win, regardless of which character you use. Be happy with who you like and main, and don't listen to these ignorant people who base their lives around biased opinions that anyone can make up. Sure, people can agree, but there are many who do not.

Ness always rules, no matter what people say. F*ck you gimpyfish.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>__> ^

By extension you should also blame the SBR personnel as well, considering they had a hand in putting this list out early.



Edit: Okay, PK Mastah. You can shut up and go back to playing with your brother now. Or, better yet, go out and win some ****ing tournaments with Ness. Show us that tires don exits.

Vitriol aside, learn to read disclaimers. Tier lists are not absolute. They are a COLLECTIVE OPINION.

Smooth Criminal

 

[mirkdddlhppr]

Wario in High? ;_; Darn. Oh wwell. :D

 

[Zinc Elemental]

WTF is this?

ok first of all, this is one person's/ group's opinion. Who the f*ck asked the rest of us?
this list is completely bullsh*t. im not just saying that cuz Im biased.
this should be based not on the moves and abilities of the characters. It all depends on how the player uses them. Mind games and such. And there are an infinite amount of variables. This shouldnt be decided by a limited group of people in a tournament. I can sure destroy any Meta Knight players at the same skill level as I with Ness using my own style of playing. This is just a scam to promote your favorite characters, and if it isn't, and if it is legit, it should still not be considered official. How dare you call this official? Who says it's official? The best brawl player in the world? No. The fact is, tier lists are not real. They don't mean anything, and they are just a way to put down other people who use characters which are supposedly lower tier. You play as well as you can, and you can still win, regardless of which character you use. Be happy with who you like and main, and don't listen to these ignorant people who base their lives around biased opinions that anyone can make up. Sure, people can agree, but there are many who do not.

Ness always rules, no matter what people say. F*ck you gimpyfish.

Your post made me cry.

Also, nice job cursing at the guy who plays bowser.

 

[Morrigan]

WTF is this?

ok first of all, this is one person's/ group's opinion. Who the f*ck asked the rest of us?
this list is completely bullsh*t. im not just saying that cuz Im biased.
this should be based not on the moves and abilities of the characters. It all depends on how the player uses them. Mind games and such. And there are an infinite amount of variables. This shouldnt be decided by a limited group of people in a tournament. I can sure destroy any Meta Knight players at the same skill level as I with Ness (aka Turtle skill level) using my own style of playing. This is just a scam to promote your favorite characters, and if it isn't, and if it is legit, it should still not be considered official. How dare you call this official? Who says it's official? The best brawl player in the world? No. The fact is, tier lists are not real. They don't mean anything, and they are just a way to put down other people who use characters which are supposedly lower tier. You play as well as you can, and you can still win, regardless of which character you use. Be happy with who you like and main, and don't listen to these ignorant people who base their lives around biased opinions that anyone can make up. Sure, people can agree, but there are many who do not.

Ness always rules, no matter what people say. F*ck you gimpyfish.

tires don exits!!!11


--

I'm surprised by Luigi and Peach's placement. They are right next to each other but their tournament results are VERY different.

 

[AzulFlameXIII]

I kinda knew ness would be low tier but whatever I'll stick to him no matter what a list says.

 

[BentoBox]

PK master won the thread.

I'm still wondering how Bowser made it that high.

 

[Steel]

That's....

Yeah that's dumb.

 

[Lord Viper]

It hasn't been a year yet and a tier list has already?!?! Oh well, Pink Kirby should had been god tier.

As for me, this make's my jod easier because most of the top and high tier chreacter I have no probelm with.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

WTF is this?

ok first of all, this is one person's/ group's opinion. Who the f*ck asked the rest of us?
this list is completely bullsh*t. im not just saying that cuz Im biased.
this should be based not on the moves and abilities of the characters. It all depends on how the player uses them. Mind games and such. And there are an infinite amount of variables. This shouldnt be decided by a limited group of people in a tournament. I can sure destroy any Meta Knight players at the same skill level as I with Ness using my own style of playing. This is just a scam to promote your favorite characters, and if it isn't, and if it is legit, it should still not be considered official. How dare you call this official? Who says it's official? The best brawl player in the world? No. The fact is, tier lists are not real. They don't mean anything, and they are just a way to put down other people who use characters which are supposedly lower tier. You play as well as you can, and you can still win, regardless of which character you use. Be happy with who you like and main, and don't listen to these ignorant people who base their lives around biased opinions that anyone can make up. Sure, people can agree, but there are many who do not.

Ness always rules, no matter what people say. F*ck you gimpyfish.

wow. really just wow. just because character A is higher then character B doesnt mean some cant take character B and completely dominate. and nowhere in the OP does it insinuate otherwise. your comments are completely wrong, and also biased. using ness as an example, with him being your main? that sounds like baised to me.

 

[Anther]

omg who put pikachu that high?!

 

[Fatmanonice]

A few things that should be changed in my opinion:

-ROB should definately be lower since he's been steadily falling in rank since probably May.

-Bowser's definately too high for reasons that probably 50 people have already stated. His tournament results definately don't help him either.

-Ike has a hard time against pretty against anyone who has a good projectile/chain grab/edge guarding skills. He's basically what you'd get if you mixed Link and Ganondorf. With that being said, him being mid tier is kind of a stretch.

-Wario should be lower since he can now be infinited by 8 characters and released grabbed into something by like half the cast. Yeah, I know people like Futile are tearing things up with him but I'm sure he'll take a fall within a year because of them.

- I thought it was agreed that Ness was now better than Lucas and that Mr. Game and Watch was better than King Dedede?

I have a good feeling about Mario though and feel that the only reason why he's so low right now is because there's only like 2 pros that represent him well on a regular basis; Boss8 and Fear.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Looks pretty accurate to me. I knew Wario wasn't Top 5 material.

And PT blows, like nature intended. ;_;