The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Sosuke]

omg who put pikachu that high?!

Anther probably.
O_O
I just realized who I'm quoting.

 

[rm88]

I use number 3, 14, 24, 26, 27, 31 and 32. My average is 22.4 ^^

 

[Morrigan]

Attached is a comparison of Ankoku's tournament rankings versus the Tier list.

SBR    |Ankoku
______________
MK     |MK
Snake  |Snake
Dedede |Wario
G&W    |Dedede
Falco  |Falco
R.O.B  |G&W
Marth  |Marth
Wario  |R.O.B
Lucario|Diddy
DK     |Lucario
Diddy  |DK
Pikachu|Kirby
ICs    |Wolf
Kirby  |Peach
Pit    |Pikachu
Wolf   |Olimar
TL     |ICs
Olimar |Pit
Fox    |Zamus
Zelda  |Fox
Zamus  |Ike
Bowser |Sonic
Luigi  |Lucas
Peach  |PT
Ike    |TL
Shiek  |Jiggs
Lucas  |Mario
Ness   |Zelda
Mario  |Shiek
PT     |Ness
Samus  |Luigi
Yoshi  |Bowser
Sonic  |Yoshi
Jiggs  |Samus
Ganon  |Link
Link   |Falcon
Falcon |Ganon

Interesting points: Peach is 10 slots lower in the tier list.

Bowser is 10 higher on the Tier List because of a phenomenon known as Gimpyfluence.

Toon link is 8 higher in the Tier List.

Luigi is 8 higher on the Tier list.

Most of the cast is 3-5 different. Top 8 and Bottom 3 are the same.

That's an interesting comparison, that's exactly what I had in mind.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Anther probably.
O_O
I just realized who I'm quoting.

You sir, have made my day.
The shock rat seems right at home where he is, though.

 

[Banjodorf]

Good :

Diddy - High (YAAAAAY!)
DK - (HIGH) (WOOOOT)

Pika - High

Sheik - Mid (Beats being low)

G&W and Dedede being top, although not surprising, is still great.

Surprises -

Lucario - 3rd High tier. Really? He's great, but what qualities does he have that put him right under Wario? O.o

Bowser - WHO PUT HIM THAT HIGH??

Link - Bummer. Really.

Sonic - Lulz. I'm sorry, but lulz.

 

[Deathcarter]

This tier list for the most part is good IMO.

For one thing, tournament results should not factor into the lower tiered characters placement as much as the higher tiered characters placement simply because the lower tiered characters have VERY little gap sizes in results when compared to the higher tiered characters. Honestly, do you think Luigi should be the third worst character because he has a tenth of a point less than Samus?

Secondly, I think it makes sense to put Ganon above Link right now when you think about it. Link can do some awesome things, but he can easily be gimped. Now, consider that saying a third of the cast has decent edgeguarding would be an understatement, Link will have a hell of a time against all of the characters that can gimp/edgehog well.Now Ganondorf has trouble mostly against characters that can outdo him in close combat, outmaneuver him, and camp him. But all of that is somewhat mitigated by the fact that he can kill light characters in 4 hits. Now since the objective of a match is to kill your opponent three times, all most of the cast has to do is get Link off of the stage at around 90 damage. If they kill Link and build a lead over him, it makes it that much harder for Link to win, no matter how well his player uses him. Ganondorf can be overwhelmed by most characters, but he just needs to land that good hit and he has built a lead. A bad recovery hurts Link because practically ALL of the cast can edgeguard him and realistically solidify an early lead while there are some characters (Jiggs, CF, Kirby to an extent) Ganon is realistically capable of building a lead on. Ganon can close the gap/build a lead with one attack while Link is killed somewhat easily by almost EVERYONE while he works HARD to get that kill. This is why I think Ganon > Link presently.

 

[DanGR]

Just thought I'd mention, if you think a character's placing is incorrect and that ______ is really awesome and should be higher, I heavily suggest using that character and kicking some tourney ***. Film some killer matches and post them on SWF so we can check em out.

Would it even really matter? I mean, I have completely dominated many matches and sets against good players and characters with my Olimar, and I will eventually make some good videos, but a couple matches don't matter. From what I've seen and heard, none of the current sbr members use Olimar, play against any Olimars, or see any decent Olimars play regularly.(Correct me if I'm completely wrong) That's all that matters with this list.

I can and have proven in-tourney that Olimar's recovery IS NOT as NEARLY as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be. (I'm absolutely sure that's the sole reason why he's placed so low) The fact is that his matchups are far above average, that he's unpopular in the tourney scene, and that those who actually use Olimar in the tourney scene, regardless of popularity, do well proves his worth- and he's still placed in mid tier regardless? This is what bugs me. w/e though.

 

[The Real Inferno]

How can Captain Falcon approve if he's the very last character on the list?

Because he's top tier of manliness.

 

[Big Red]

SHEIK*

10char

 

[Dragonslayer9]

I approve of this tier list greatly, seems that Pokemon trainer and Jigglypuff are under used.

What is wrong with the Pokemon trainer compared to the rest of the cast anyway?

 

[The Real Inferno]

I approve of this tier list greatly, seems that Pokemon trainer and Jigglypuff are under used.

What is wrong with the Pokemon trainer compared to the rest of the cast anyway?

Well it's mostly because he tends to only have an advantageous matchup with one pokemon at a time, but because of the way the pokemon are designed he's forced to switch, sometimes into something horrible for him just to get KOs or because he died. What happens here is switching almost always leads to him taking a charged smash from the opponent if he does it just mid-match. Say you are against a Falco. You would probably want to use Squirtle here as he's quick and gets under lazers and is hard to chain grab. However, it will take a long time to kill Falco with just Squirtle, and you'll be forced to switch (I believe its Ivysaur you then become) and Ivysaur is utter fail against Falco. He's kinda slow, has easily reflected projectiles and is easy gimp/spike bait. Even worse, sometimes -none- of the three pokemon have a good matchup (such as when facing a Marth).

Another downfall is that all of the pokemon have rather ******** recovery in their own special way. Squirtle has an average recovery (that is functionally exactly identical to Mario. Have you noticed Squirtle has three moves exactly the same as Mario, that being dair, his water gun and upB? Weird). He also has Withdraw, but using that move is practically asking to get ****ed over as the "invincibility" comes with a drawback of he can be ricocheted by smash attacks and some other moves, and is unable to cancel out of it until a certain time. This sometimes forces him into impossible to recover from positions. Also his Withdraw can be jumped on to make him flop around like an idiot, completely vulnerable. It doesn't helps he's one of the lightest chars in the game. Charizard has the slowest glide in the game and gets very little height off of his multi jump. his glide attack is absolutely terrible in comparison to Meta or Pit's and leaves him vulnerable to a butt kicking, making him easy to spike if her comes in low, but easy to smash if he comes in high. His up B has a problem similar to Ganon's in that the twisting "hook" flight pattern causes it to trap him under ledges very easily on stages like Pokemon Stadium 2, Lylat and Final Destination. Ivysaur has a tether recovery. Enough said.

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

Why is Lucario high? Does nobody find this a bit surprising?

No.

10LucariOwns

 

[SamuraiPanda]

omg who put pikachu that high?!

You're right, Pikachu sucks bad. The SBR doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

You're right, Pikachu sucks bad. The SBR doesn't know what they're talking about.

You just got Panda owned!!

 

[The Real Inferno]

You're right, Pikachu sucks bad. The SBR doesn't know what they're talking about.

I KNEW IT! You guys just make fun of the rest of us behind our backs all day, don't deny it!

Edit: I vote Random for Middle of Mid Tier.

 

[Problem2]

Lucario and Bowser seem a bit high, even though Azen plays a great Lucario. Wolf and Toon Link seem low too at first glance, but looking at who exactly are placed above them, they actually don't seem that out of place.

 

[Tien2500]

Well it's mostly because he tends to only have an advantageous matchup with one pokemon at a time, but because of the way the pokemon are designed he's forced to switch, sometimes into something horrible for him just to get KOs or because he died. What happens here is switching almost always leads to him taking a charged smash from the opponent if he does it just mid-match. Say you are against a Falco. You would probably want to use Squirtle here as he's quick and gets under lazers and is hard to chain grab. However, it will take a long time to kill Falco with just Squirtle, and you'll be forced to switch (I believe its Ivysaur you then become) and Ivysaur is utter fail against Falco. He's kinda slow, has easily reflected projectiles and is easy gimp/spike bait. Even worse, sometimes -none- of the three pokemon have a good matchup (such as when facing a Marth).

Another downfall is that all of the pokemon have rather ******** recovery in their own special way. Squirtle has an average recovery (that is functionally exactly identical to Mario. Have you noticed Squirtle has three moves exactly the same as Mario, that being dair, his water gun and upB? Weird). He also has Withdraw, but using that move is practically asking to get ****ed over as the "invincibility" comes with a drawback of he can be ricocheted by smash attacks and some other moves, and is unable to cancel out of it until a certain time. This sometimes forces him into impossible to recover from positions. Also his Withdraw can be jumped on to make him flop around like an idiot, completely vulnerable. It doesn't helps he's one of the lightest chars in the game. Charizard has the slowest glide in the game and gets very little height off of his multi jump. his glide attack is absolutely terrible in comparison to Meta or Pit's and leaves him vulnerable to a butt kicking, making him easy to spike if her comes in low, but easy to smash if he comes in high. His up B has a problem similar to Ganon's in that the twisting "hook" flight pattern causes it to trap him under ledges very easily on stages like Pokemon Stadium 2, Lylat and Final Destination. Ivysaur has a tether recovery. Enough said.

You really shouldn't have too much of a problem switching out of you're smart about it. Plenty of moves have enough knockback to ensure a safe switch and even at low damage you can knock them far away enough so that your opponent (depending on who they are) will only be able to get in a weak hit if they're quick enough. Generally I can go through a match without using the most disadvantaged (or least advantaged) Pokemon almost an insignificant amount of time.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Actually, I am a little amazed that even though Wolf is my best Space Animal, I've never thought he was better than Fox overall. Apparently I was incorrect.

You really shouldn't have too much of a problem switching out of you're smart about it. Plenty of moves have enough knockback to ensure a safe switch and even at low damage you can knock them far away enough so that your opponent (depending on who they are) will only be able to get in a weak hit if they're quick enough. Generally I can go through a match without using the most disadvantaged (or least advantaged) Pokemon almost an insignificant amount of time.

I am aware of this. It doesn't make the fact go away that switching (especially if you are the kind that thinks they should be seperate) is usually bad for you since usually only one pokemon is good in a matchup. Like in my previous example. Falco ***** both Charizard and Ivysaur. Switching from Squirtle is practically suicidal, but you'll have no choice. The same instances happen vs Meta, ROB, Game and Watch, DDD, hell, about half the cast or more.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Mk not alone or even just with Snake?

Biggest gap is right there.



What about Marth? Second-best overall match-ups, his results consistently hover around the top 5, why is he placed at so much of a gap?

 

[Tien2500]

Actually, I am a little amazed that even though Wolf is my best Space Animal, I've never thought he was better than Fox overall. Apparently I was incorrect.



I am aware of this. It doesn't make the fact go away that switching (especially if you are the kind that thinks they should be seperate) is usually bad for you since usually only one pokemon is good in a matchup. Like in my previous example. Falco ***** both Charizard and Ivysaur. Switching from Squirtle is practically suicidal, but you'll have no choice. The same instances happen vs Meta, ROB, Game and Watch, DDD, hell, about half the cast or more.

You mentioned Meta, ROB, Gamewatch, DDD and Falco who most of the cast have problems with. And I don't know if I agree with those anyway. I think both Ivy and Squirtle are reasonable good against Dedede, and Squirtle and Charizard both effective against ROB. Typically I find I have one advantageous match and one neutral against most characters. Faclo may be hard to switch against (for Ivy at least. Charizard shouldn't have much trouble and as Squirtle you shouldn't switch out anyway) but I don't think any of the characters should have too much of a hard time finding a moment to switch against DDD, MK, G&W, Rob, or Marth.

I'd argue this better but I'm really tired at the moment.

 

[Dastrn]

Marth's matchups are over-rated. He belongs where he's been placed.

He loses to Meta.
He loses to Snake.
He loses to G&W.
He beats DDD.
He loses to ROB.
He's probably about even with Falco.

If we stop right there, you can see that he has problems with ALL the top tier characters, and that alone says he doesn't belong in top tier.

He loses to Diddy.
He is about even with DK.
He is even with Pikachu at best, and might be 55-45 Pika.
Pit, Wolf, and Kirby can all give him trouble. It could be argued that all 3 are even matchups.
The rest of high tier, Marth beats.

Considering his matchups, I'd say that he should be happy to have gotten the 7th spot, and I expect that a year from now, Diddy and Pikachu will both be placed higher than Marth, and he'll be 9th or 10th.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I dunno about losing to Diddy there. Marth is pretty tough for Diddy last I've checked. Picking up bananas with his Fair is pretty devastating to Diddy.

 

[:034:]

Obligatory posting...

Yeah, that is pretty much as I would say it. Although, Link that low? Is he seriously that bad? I always imagined him as at least higher than Samus.

 

[Ravin]

Dont discredit Samus just yet

 

[~Infinity~]

Should snake really be top tier? He is is one of the best characters, but 2/3 snake mainers I know, just throw gernades and motarslide. So is that really fair to put him that high? Then again his is the Strongest, one of the heaviest, and cheapest character in brawl. Tier are put together by characters overall skills.

 

[RodS]

Snake doesnt really have any matchups where its really hard..
the same goes for Metaknight so it makes sence that there always on top. -_-

 

[Tristan_win]

Why is pika so high panda?

I never knew pika was even good.

 

[Toneh]

pretty good list. How i would've done it.

 

[Tien2500]

Quick attack cancel. Good camping.

 

[Tristan_win]

Quick attack cancel. Good camping.

I thought no one really used quick attack cancel also to be that high you need more then just good camping.


I would like a more solid answer. I already know he has a good match up with snake and all but what else does the rat have going for him?

 

[Grunt]

It's good, but why GBD?

 

[Tien2500]

I think quick attack cancel is pretty useful for approaching many characters. Thunderjolt spam is very effective against certain characters and prevents ledgecamping altogether. Dsmash has the range of Peach's Melee Dsmash and is another great defensive tool. Fair and Uair have very little lag on them making the approach all the better, especially consideing Pikachu's speed. Pika can chaingrab most of the heavier characters either with Dthrow or Fthrow. He also has pretty decent matchups overall.

 

[mariofanpm12]

a low and bottom would be nice... also, mario in low tier?

 

[deftdefier]

Pika can chaingrab half of the top tier to 60% also a couple other good chars: wolf and DK

 

[cjrocker]

Hey, Wolf made high tier.
I thought TLink could make it too, oh well.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Marth's matchups are over-rated. He belongs where he's been placed.

He loses to Meta.
He loses to Snake.
He loses to G&W.
He beats DDD.
He loses to ROB.
He's probably about even with Falco.

If we stop right there, you can see that he has problems with ALL the top tier characters, and that alone says he doesn't belong in top tier.

He loses to Diddy.
He is about even with DK.
He is even with Pikachu at best, and might be 55-45 Pika.
Pit, Wolf, and Kirby can all give him trouble. It could be argued that all 3 are even matchups.
The rest of high tier, Marth beats.

Considering his matchups, I'd say that he should be happy to have gotten the 7th spot, and I expect that a year from now, Diddy and Pikachu will both be placed higher than Marth, and he'll be 9th or 10th.

He loses to meta, the others are no.

Snake, DDD, and ROB are even. ROB agrees, DDD and Snake don't have current match-up threads that deal with it, but you can be sure if they conclude we have a disadvantage against them, we'll debate them on it.

Game and Watch and Falcon it's agreed that he beats them by both boards. (Falco is unofficially, but in general that's the consensus)

He beats Diddy (go to either board), DK (only our board has covered it), pikachu (in their words, "one of his(pikachu's) hardest match-ups"), Pit (they haven't covered it), wolf (they agree it's a disadvantage), and Kirby (according to the kirbies, he's a hard-counter).


No, just no. All the match-ups you cite are wrong, except MK. The vast majority of them, both boards agree you're wrong about the match-ups.

I dunno about losing to Diddy there. Marth is pretty tough for Diddy last I've checked. Picking up bananas with his Fair is pretty devastating to Diddy.

Diddy isn't the only issue here, but the Diddies acknowledge a marth advantage.

 

[YagamiLight]

Can't say I expected another placing for Ike due to all the hate everywhere. I'm pretty sure you'll find people who after that low position will want to bring him down even more

Regardless, that only means that Ike (As well as Sonic, Ness, everyone else who probably deserves better) needs to step it up (Sonic...) and go to tourneys and place well.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The list seems fine to me but there is one thing I can't see that make sense at all. How is Bowser over Peach. Peach has better match ups than bowser does. And there is more things I can add in hardcore details that can show that bowser should not be over Peach.

And he is also over luigi? I don't get that at all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The list seems fine to me but there is one thing I can't see that make sense at all. How is Bowser over Peach. Peach has better match ups than bowser does. And there is more things I can add in hardcore details that can show that bowser should not be over Peach.

And he is also over luigi? I don't get that at all.

Bowser is rather overrated in the SBR it seems. Don't get me wrong, he's a reasonably good character, but not as good as the list would suggest.

I find the entire sacred 7 minus marth placed in top tier the most jarring personally, there's just too large of a gap, most if not all should be brought down a tier.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yea, seems that way. Peach should be were luigi is and bowser should be where Peach is. Peach and luigi do better than bowser does. Sometimes I like to know just how are tiers are made. Cause to me its not legit enough. Peach id doing better than bowser in tournaments. And I think Luigi is too.